Arguing with an engineer...

<snip.

Detail Man said:

Detail Man said:

Detail Man said:

I don't mean to be "nosy" by asking - but am curious as to what type of engineering in general ?

Click to expand...

This was an aerospace company that had extensive defense contracts.

Click to expand...

Ah, so it was not so unlike the private-sector juggernaut joint previously described. In fact, the whole point was/is to hurredly "use or lose" public monies under the auspices of "national security". "Risk" is socialized so that warrior-elites can flourish without challenge. Such is, of course, all performed in the interest of "the children", who shall carry on and sustain "the Homeland of the righteously humble".

Detail Man said:

Some of the communication problems were allegedly due to certain things being "secret", but many of the so-called "secrets" were trivial, plainly obvious to anyone who simply handled the components. Sigh.

Click to expand...

The older I get, the more that I am convinced that the phrase "military intelligence" is an oxymoron.

Click to expand...

Being the child of a career military man, I would have to say that I have great respect for the majority of the many military folks I've met. I think the civilian politicians that We The People have repeatedly re-elected are far more to blame, as are the voters responsible for this.

Detail Man said:

I once interviewed at a "fat and happy" military contractor who was at the time working on contracts for the first "stealth bomber". The place was completely empty of personnel in the middle of the afternoon. I was told in all seriousness that the "crew" was off playing (get this) "water polo". They wanted to hire me and throw plenty of money my way - but my pacifist soul could not in good conscience participate in that "gravy-train to mutually assured destruction".

Click to expand...

Well, we have wandered far afield indeed from the forum subject matter, so I will only say that while I am not a pacifist (and have taken significant money from the industrial side of the military-industrial complex), the casual and ignorant-of-history way in which our civilian leadership has (repeatedly) used our military is IMO probably the greatest tragedy of my lifetime.

No more from me on this. I fear we are setting a bad example of OT here.

Austinian said:

<snip.

Austinian said:

Austinian said:

Austinian said:

I don't mean to be "nosy" by asking - but am curious as to what type of engineering in general ?

Click to expand...

This was an aerospace company that had extensive defense contracts.

Click to expand...

Ah, so it was not so unlike the private-sector juggernaut joint previously described. In fact, the whole point was/is to hurredly "use or lose" public monies under the auspices of "national security". "Risk" is socialized so that warrior-elites can flourish without challenge. Such is, of course, all performed in the interest of "the children", who shall carry on and sustain "the Homeland of the righteously humble".

Austinian said:

Some of the communication problems were allegedly due to certain things being "secret", but many of the so-called "secrets" were trivial, plainly obvious to anyone who simply handled the components. Sigh.

Click to expand...

The older I get, the more that I am convinced that the phrase "military intelligence" is an oxymoron.

Click to expand...

Being the child of a career military man, I would have to say that I have great respect for the majority of the many military folks I've met. I think the civilian politicians that We The People have repeatedly re-elected are far more to blame, as are the voters responsible for this.

Austinian said:

I once interviewed at a "fat and happy" military contractor who was at the time working on contracts for the first "stealth bomber". The place was completely empty of personnel in the middle of the afternoon. I was told in all seriousness that the "crew" was off playing (get this) "water polo". They wanted to hire me and throw plenty of money my way - but my pacifist soul could not in good conscience participate in that "gravy-train to mutually assured destruction".

Click to expand...

Well, we have wandered far afield indeed from the forum subject matter, so I will only say that while I am not a pacifist (and have taken significant money from the industrial side of the military-industrial complex), the casual and ignorant-of-history way in which our civilian leadership has (repeatedly) used our military is IMO probably the greatest tragedy of my lifetime.

No more from me on this. I fear we are setting a bad example of OT here.

Click to expand...

Dig it. It is not my mind's desire to imagine to know, or thus judge the hearts of, other individuals.

.

James Carse (in "Finite and Infinite Games") so eloquently observes the following regarding such (in my own personal impressions) ancient ritualistic dances within human behaviors:

For a bounded, metaphysically veiled, and destined society, enemies are necessary, conflict inevitable, and war likely. ...

... If a state has no enemies it has no boundaries. To keep its definitions clear a state must stimulate danger to itself. Under the constant danger of war the people of a state are far more attentive and obedient to the finite structures of their society. ...

... War presents itself as necessary for self-protection, when in fact it is necessary for self-identification. ...

... Winning a war can be as destructive as losing one, for if boundaries lose their clarity, as they do in a decisive victory, the state loses its identity. Just as Alexander wept upon learning that he had no more enemies to conquer, finite players come to rue their victories unless they see them quickly challenged by new danger. A war fought to end all wars, in the strategy of finite play, only breeds universal warfare. ...

... What will undo any boundary is the awareness that it is our vision, and not what we are viewing, that is limited.

.

"all part of "the plan" ? ..."

Yeah, that is the problem with the conspiracy theorists. Every now and then they happen to be right.

OpticsEngineer said:

"all part of "the plan" ? ..."

Click to expand...

It's called "satire" ...

OpticsEngineer said:

Yeah, that is the problem with the conspiracy theorists. Every now and then they happen to be right.

Click to expand...

You seem somehow disappointed ? I have not asserted that Howard's Glomars and associations with the US government were not weird affairs - simply that around 4 years after the "glamorous" incident that you referenced, a real life mining corporation (no matter how untenable it may sound to you and your speculating friends) surely did spend large sums of money (including that spent on the actual, not phony, undersea instrumentation that I worked on), and reportedly (from an eyewitness) did indeed dredge some amounts of what were portrayed as being Nickel/Manganese nodules from the Pacific Ocean floor in the late 1970s. My understading is that the mining company did not further pursue such endeavors. Methinks that it was likely more mundane than you may seem to suspect.

You seem to be "tunneled" into your own senses of "concreteness" - such that for you new and seemingly "foreign" information simply "cannot compute" on your end. That's fine. I have not set about to debunk your world-view - only to add my own personal experiences and knowledge of events that (by all appearances to me) had nothing in particular to do with "spy vs. spy" stuff ...

I also (in seriousness) indicated witnessing events that might likely send you as well as others into heavy duty reductionistic "debunking" modes big-time - which would likely be much more exciting for you than "debunking" what, in the events described above, appears to have been none other than mundane (and sometimes seemingly goofy) capitalism at work (likely a healthy tax write-off, as well).

DM ...

J C Brown said:

A gift from my daughter-in-law

Good advice?

Click to expand...

Not good advice, unless you slightly modified it to 'Experienced Engineer'.

There is a related axiom however which I do agree with, probably 90% of the time ...

'When in doubt, never question the wisdom of old school'.





--
David
My gear list: D300 / D70s / D200
A bunch of lenses and some flash

... a collapse in the international nickel price between the mid-1970s and mid-1980s shattered the prospects of instant wealth from the billions of tons of ore that lay just beyond the limits of technology available at the time.

Source: http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com...sea-and-outer-space-for-mineral-bonanza/?_r=0

Also see: https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...IQFjAD&usg=AFQjCNH3zPAD9eRdgjOnfGF64z68_E7OnA

... and:

https://books.google.com/books?id=u...and "manganese nodules" and "pacific"&f=false

.

The contractor of the company that I worked for was International Nickel, Limited (Canada).

Here is "the goods" regarding the mysterious "INCO Consortium" (from that very time period):

Because the costs and risks of deep seabed mining are so high, several large multinationals have formed international consortia to explore the ocean floor and share equipment and expertise. Three of these groups are considered the most active: the Kennecott Copper Corporation with Rio Tinto Zinc, Mitsubishi, and Consolidated Gold Fields; Ocean Mining Associated directed by Deepsea Ventures Inc.; and the INCO Consortium, led by International Nickel. Other U.S. firms with interests in nodule mining are Lockheed, U.S. Steel, and Phelps Dodge. All of the major consortia are ready to begin pilot demonstrations in the Pacific Ocean, but, according to a report by the Department of the Interior, political uncertainties both within the U.S. government and the UN Law of the Sea Conference "must be removed before commitments are made " for full-scale 'commercial operations."

Source: http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1978/01/deepseamining.html

.

Here is a graphic detailing the vast "diadem of interesting relationships" surrounding my employer:

http://en.inforapid.org/index.php?search=Colmek Systems Engineering

This is an included description of the side-scanning sonar system that I assisted in developing:


Source: http://en.inforapid.org/index.php?search=Colmek Systems Engineering

.

It appears (from said "diadem of interesting relationships") that associations with Howard Hughes relate to Raytheon Company. We have a resident "systems engineer" who may (perhaps, possibly) have some level of knowledge, and be at some degree of liberty to speak regarding such consortings ...

DM ...