What Country Are Gray Market Cameras From?

MarshallG

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I keep reading about "Import" and "Gray Market" cameras being cheaper than the officially-imported USA models. But when I read posts from users in other countries, they seem to always face higher prices than USA consumers.

So what country do the gray market cameras come from, and can I go there and get these insane prices myself?
 
Solution
So if you get cameras imported from another country without including a warranty nor the costs involved marketing the brand (advertising, reps,spare parts...) it can be sold for less.
Which country sells Canon DSLR cameras at prices lower than the US prices? Where do these gray market importers go to get these cameras?.
The country you're looking for doesn't exist.

The vast majority of the time, the importer who brings a gray market product to the U.S. does not buy it at retail. They buy the products at semi-wholesale prices from sources who have access to the products at Canon factory wholesale prices -- in almost all cases because those sources are, in fact, Canon authorized distributors for their respective region...
Usually Asian imports. Gray Market/Import simply means that it's not an officially distributed item (i.e. not via the official distribution channels from a factory to proper distributors in proper geographic locations) but going through some back channels and hence not carrying proper warranty for your country. So if you buy a "gray market" camera from Japan, it will have Japanese international warranty--you'd need to send it to Japan for repairs. Generally it's taken to mean effectively no manufacturer warranty, and those items are discounted accordingly. They are the same exact items, however, still made by the same manufacturer--just made for distribution in different markets. Hence manuals might be in a different language, camera menus might be in a different language, etc.
 
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I keep reading about "Import" and "Gray Market" cameras being cheaper than the officially-imported USA models. But when I read posts from users in other countries, they seem to always face higher prices than USA consumers.

So what country do the gray market cameras come from, and can I go there and get these insane prices myself?
Gray market is any camera that didn't come through your country's official importer.

For example if you are in the USA and buy a camera from B&H Photo, presuming they bought it it from the American distributor, then you have an official import, not a gray market camera.

OTOH, if your friend in Toronto Canada buys a camera from B&H, he has bought a gray market camera, since it didn't come from the Canadian importer.
 
I understand that much of it. What I don't understand is what country do the "lower than US prices" gray market DSLR's come from?
 
Of course the cameras are made in the same place.
When sold through the official channels the local agents provide back up service including a 1 year warranty; that cost is included into the wholesale price.

So if you get cameras imported from another country without including a warranty nor the costs involved marketing the brand (advertising, reps,spare parts...) it can be sold for less.
 
I understand that much of it. What I don't understand is what country do the "lower than US prices" gray market DSLR's come from?
He did say Asia, didn't he? Somebody buys a bunch of cameras in an Asian country (where they are sold cheaper than in the US), ships them to the US and then resells them.

Are you perhaps asking why cameras are cheaper in (some) Asian countries than in the US? That is quite easy. First subtract actual production costs from the price. They are the same; it's the same camera after all. What remains are distribution, handling and retailing costs, as well as the profit margin.

The first group is a not insignicant part of final price. Labour is a not insignificant part of those costs, and labour is cheaper in Asia than in the US, generally. So that is one reason.

Another reason, again rooted in cheaper labour, actually, is that available income in Asian countries is lower and thus the camera producers set a lower customer price (lowering their profit margin) to be able to sell any cameras at all. After all, it is better to sell one camera at half the profit than no camera at no profit.

So why aren't we (in the US and in Europe) offered those lower prices? Simply because enough of us keep buying at the higher prices, that's why. So why should the producer lower the price? After all, it's better for them to sell one camera at twice the profit than one camera at half the profit.

It's called price differentation in markets.

And then there are of course the varying levels of insurance in different countries. These are local costs and thus differ like the other costs do.

Regards, Mike

PS: Above examples of 'one camera....' are of course vastly simplified and do not take the volume into account, and as such only serve as illustration, and not as an example of the actual calculation :-)

--
Wait and see...
I hardly ever speak for anybody but myself. In the cases where I do mean to speak generally the statements are likely to be marked as such.
 
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I understand that much of it. What I don't understand is what country do the "lower than US prices" gray market DSLR's come from?
He did say Asia, didn't he? Somebody buys a bunch of cameras in an Asian country (where they are sold cheaper than in the US), ships them to the US and then resells them.

Are you perhaps asking why cameras are cheaper in (some) Asian countries than in the US? That is quite easy. First subtract actual production costs from the price. They are the same; it's the same camera after all. What remains are distribution, handling and retailing costs, as well as the profit margin.

The first group is a not insignicant part of final price. Labour is a not insignificant part of those costs, and labour is cheaper in Asia than in the US, generally.
I fly to Asia frequently. I haven't seen lower prices in Japan or Taiwan. I don't think Korea is cheaper, although the Gimpo Airport Duty Free store had excellent prices on one of my visits. Have you seen these lower prices? Is it in Thailand? Malaysia? I looked in Mexico, and Canon prices are far higher.
 
So if you get cameras imported from another country without including a warranty nor the costs involved marketing the brand (advertising, reps,spare parts...) it can be sold for less.
Which country sells Canon DSLR cameras at prices lower than the US prices? Where do these gray market importers go to get these cameras?
 
I understand that much of it. What I don't understand is what country do the "lower than US prices" gray market DSLR's come from?
He did say Asia, didn't he? Somebody buys a bunch of cameras in an Asian country (where they are sold cheaper than in the US), ships them to the US and then resells them.

Are you perhaps asking why cameras are cheaper in (some) Asian countries than in the US? That is quite easy. First subtract actual production costs from the price. They are the same; it's the same camera after all. What remains are distribution, handling and retailing costs, as well as the profit margin.

The first group is a not insignicant part of final price. Labour is a not insignificant part of those costs, and labour is cheaper in Asia than in the US, generally.
I fly to Asia frequently. I haven't seen lower prices in Japan or Taiwan.
And you wont, necessarily. (Particularly not in Japan - but that is another topic :-) )

The prices in the places you mentioned are retail prices. The prices subject to what I said before are more likely to be bulk prices, ie. those offered to the retailers, than the retail prices you as a customer is exposed to.

So as to which country exactly these cameras originate from, that is difficult to say, and actually also likely to vary quite often, perhaps up to daily.

Regards, Mike
 
Easy answer is they buy from the factory where they are made. Only buy in bulk without a warranty. Other wise same camera. If you can buy several hundred cameras at one time you can get the same price.
 
OTOH, if your friend in Toronto Canada buys a camera from B&H, he has bought a gray market camera, since it didn't come from the Canadian importer.
This is incorrect. Anyone buying a new dslr from B&H is getting a US-warranted camera and not a "grey market" camera (excepting the D300s and D90 which are available in "grey market."
 
So if you get cameras imported from another country without including a warranty nor the costs involved marketing the brand (advertising, reps,spare parts...) it can be sold for less.
Which country sells Canon DSLR cameras at prices lower than the US prices? Where do these gray market importers go to get these cameras?.
The country you're looking for doesn't exist.

The vast majority of the time, the importer who brings a gray market product to the U.S. does not buy it at retail. They buy the products at semi-wholesale prices from sources who have access to the products at Canon factory wholesale prices -- in almost all cases because those sources are, in fact, Canon authorized distributors for their respective region.

So, for example, let's say you are the authorized Canon distributor for -- pulling a non-plausible name out of my hat -- Tahiti. You buy from Canon Japan and resell to Tahiti camera stores who then resell to consumers. You are responsible for covering advertising & marketing, warranty costs, customer support, sales costs and all other expenses related to supporting the Canon brand in Tahiti. Canon Japan pays for none of that. You must charge a significant profit margin to cover those very real and substantial costs in Tahiti. So if you buy a EOS 98D camera from the Canon factory for $1,000, you probably need to sell it for $1,400 to a Tahiti camera store who will then likely resell it to consumers for about $1,600. (I'm using U.S. margins here -- in many parts of the world, typical wholesale and retail margins are actually higher than in the U.S.)

If you want to, however, you can buy extra product from Canon Japan and sell a portion of it to a clever business person from Brooklyn. (You're not supposed to do this, but unless Canon Japan is really determined to stop you -- and there's a lot of reasons why they probably won't be -- it's fairly easy to get away with. And you'll probably use a front company, or several of them, to do the actual transaction.) You will not be responsible for any of the costs associated with that product -- no advertising, no warranty, no customer support, nothing. So you can sell it to the guy from Brooklyn for a much smaller margin -- let's say $1,100. You pocket $100 dollars for doing nothing more than being a re-shipping agent. (Again, I'm simplifying here -- there are layers and nuances -- but this is the gist of it.)

The importer in Brooklyn also has no costs related to supporting the Canon brand in the U.S. That's all being paid for by Canon USA -- customer support, advertising & marketing, web sites, etc. etc. The only thing the Brooklyn importer is responsible for is repairing the camera if it breaks. So if he adds $50 to cover his possible warranty liability, then adds a 15% retail margin, he can sell the camera to consumers for $1,300 or so -- cheaper than the retail price in Tahiti where it came from and cheaper than the retail price in the U.S.

So this is why gray market is cheaper -- it bypasses the funding of regional brand support. Money is never collected to cover regional marketing & advertising and customer support -- the thousands of things that regional distributors do every day to support and promote their brand. This is why the authorized distributors in places where gray market product is commonly sold are so p*&ssed off about it. They are paying all the costs to promote the brand, and the guy from Brooklyn is taking advantage of their efforts but contributing nothing to pay for them.

There is one other factor in gray market pricing and that is currency exchange rates which can increase or decrease the profitability of gray market importation, but the majority of the price advantage typically comes from the fact that regional support costs are bypassed, not from currency exchange arbitrage.
 
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Solution
Easy answer is they buy from the factory where they are made. Only buy in bulk without a warranty. Other wise same camera. If you can buy several hundred cameras at one time you can get the same price.
Nope. No significant camera manufacturer in the world will sell to somebody who walks in off the street with a wad of cash. All of them work with regional distributors with whom they have lengthy and involved contracts and agreements, in most cases dating back decades. And in all the large markets, companies like Canon, Nikon, Sony et. al. own their own distribution subsidiaries. They would never undercut their own subsidiaries by selling to other importers.

But global distribution is a very complex web -- for most multi-national companies it involves scores of distributors around the world, many of whom will be independent import/export companies, and each region or country will be governed by its own legal and jurisdictional regimes. The camera company that I once worked for had a longstanding set of problems with its Latin American distribution network and it couldn't deal with most of those problems very effectively because the local importers were protected in numerous ways by the laws in the various Latin American countries. So we muddled along with a very sub-optimal system in Latin America (probably still are).

These complex global distribution networks are leaky. And that's where gray market product comes from. The gray market importers don't go to the factory. They find the leaks in the network outside the factory and exploit them.
 
OTOH, if your friend in Toronto Canada buys a camera from B&H, he has bought a gray market camera, since it didn't come from the Canadian importer.
This is incorrect. Anyone buying a new dslr from B&H is getting a US-warranted camera and not a "grey market" camera (excepting the D300s and D90 which are available in "grey market."
 
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Henry what you sell is official in your country. As soon as it crosses an international border as part of the transaction it becomes gray market because it hasn't gone through that country's official importer.
This case doesn't fit the commonly accepted definition of gray market. The retailer making the sale is in the U.S. and the sale is recorded in the U.S. -- i.e. where the USA warranted camera is intended to be sold.

That the camera is then shipped out of the U.S. does not make it gray market. It's not technically different than a Canadian traveling to the U.S., buying the camera in the U.S., then taking it back across the border in the trunk of their car.
Nikon Canada for example will not warrant a Nikon that doesn't have a Nikon Canada warranty. This includes stuff bought from B&H unless it has an international warranty attached.
This is a separate issue from gray market distribution. This is a specific warranty policy of a specific manufacturer. The camera does have an official Nikon warranty -- it's just not transferrable to Canada.

In the common definition of the term "gray market", the product has no official manufacturer warranty -- i.e. no entity owned or associated with the manufacturer has responsibility for honoring the warranty. It's commonly believed that gray market Japanese cameras have some kind of Japanese factory warranty associated with them, but they typically do not. There is no factory level warranty -- warranty service is funded at, and provided by, the regional distributor. This is true even in Japan, where the official sales distribution arm of the manufacturer is financially responsible for the warranty, not the factory per se. That said, it's almost certain that, if you can get your gray market camera back to Japan, the manufacturer will, in fact, repair it if you ask, but they do so out of good will, not because they have a true warranty obligation.
 
OTOH, if your friend in Toronto Canada buys a camera from B&H, he has bought a gray market camera, since it didn't come from the Canadian importer.
This is incorrect. Anyone buying a new dslr from B&H is getting a US-warranted camera and not a "grey market" camera (excepting the D300s and D90 which are available in "grey market."
From a canadian perspective, any Nikon bought outside Canada is grey markey. It even says so on the Nikon Canada website :

Grey Market refers to merchandise that is imported and sold by methods other than these normal channels.

Does owning a "Grey Market" Nikon product mean I don't have a warranty?

No, all Nikon products come with a warranty by the manufacturer. The designated Nikon service center will always repair "in warranty" Nikon products and perform "out of warranty" repairs. If you own a Grey Market product it will need to be returned to the reseller or importer for service. Refer to your reseller for service contact information.


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Erick - www.borealphoto.com
 
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From a canadian perspective, any Nikon bought outside Canada is grey markey. It even says so on the Nikon Canada website :

Grey Market refers to merchandise that is imported and sold by methods other than these normal channels.
That's really a terribly imprecise sentence and I doubt a lawyer approved it before it was posted. Eamon is correct, BTW (Thanks!!). A Nikon camera with a legitimate Nikon USA warranty and then either carried from the USA to Canada or shipped there by the retailer is NOT "grey market." I don't want to split hairs but photography is an art requiring some precision and it'd be better for us all if we could carry that precision over to this aspect of the craft too.

BTW, If a Canadian customer buys a Nikon camera from us in our retail store and then carries it home it's "kosher," and should enjoy the same reciprocal coverage I'd get if I bought a non grey market camera in (say Tahiti) and then returned to my home in NY.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
 
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It think the sentence couldn't be more clear. I'll take Nikon's word over some forum poster and even yours. You can read the whole page if you want. Nikon clearly states there's a warranty on all products, gray market or not. The difference is if you want repair on a gray market product, it must be sent back to the reseller. Nikon Canada won't touch it, even for a fee.

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Erick - www.borealphoto.com
 
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