"Photographs have always been about the moment, not the dynamic range or pixel count." - Thom Hogan.

Since half of you answering didn't read it, it was about dslrs not being connected enough to our "wireless world".

Wha?

I was just out shooting the other day, got some pretty flower pics with my 70D; I transferred them to my iPhone wirelessly via the Canon app, and emailed one to my wife. The whole process took under a minute.

I assume the latest Nikons can do the same thing, so the article is clickbait.
This is true, but even this isn't wanted at times. That's what gets me the most about the "wireless brigade", the ones who insist instant uploads is a must for every shot. May as well stop shooting raw I guess, since editing is a thing of the past. And while we are at it lets send Adobe a letter telling them to pisss off, we don't need that crap.

Im like you Walk, I have cameras right now that can instantly upload to my phone, so it completely negates the mobile argument, but even then it's never going to be enough if you want results that are technically sound. Until a MFG comes out with jpeg settings I find perfect, which isn't likely to happen, I will always have reason to use the most comprehensive software I can buy, which will always be on my PC.
 
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Thom should know better---and does. The history of photography is very rich already, after only just shy of 2 centuries, and it is not "always about the moment".

Anytime someone makes a statement about something like photography, or any other medium in the realm of visual culture, that states that it is always this way or that----it is almost always (not my qualification, there) wrong. In the main because it is limiting.

--
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter? Is there a famous photograph out there where people love it because of it's resolution, or it's dynamic range, or some other purely technical attribute, even though the subject/composition is uninteresting?
All you are doing is ensuring a stalemate. Can you show me a famous landscape or macro shot that has bad blurriness, is 1000 pixels in size, has completely ruined colors, or that ended up with 2 stops of DR for the entire scene? Technical merit matters for every shot, just not the same amount for every shot. Some need it more, some need it less, but to claim that it never matters is plain dumb. It just sounds like what people say who want an excuse to use the cheapest and simplest gear.
 
In response to some of the disagreeing positions above, I do not think Thom Hogam meant that technology was important. We all know it is. I believe he was simply saying that ultimately it is the content of a photo that matters most. And I do not think he was suggesting a 'decisive moment' in the Bresson sense. I believe he was saying that it is the fraction of a second in which most (not all) photographs are made that means the most regardless of the level of technology. If one looks back over the more than 150 years photographs have been taken, you will see many good ones taken from the first photo technology to today's technology. The one thing they have in common is the moment.
 
In response to some of the disagreeing positions above, I do not think Thom Hogam meant that technology was important. We all know it is. I believe he was simply saying that ultimately it is the content of a photo that matters most. And I do not think he was suggesting a 'decisive moment' in the Bresson sense. I believe he was saying that it is the fraction of a second in which most (not all) photographs are made that means the most regardless of the level of technology. If one looks back over the more than 150 years photographs have been taken, you will see many good ones taken from the first photo technology to today's technology. The one thing they have in common is the moment.

--
Richard Weisgrau
www.drawnwithlight.com
I agree Richard, this is all very true, but I can't for the life of me, remember anybody anywhere saying the "moment" didn't matter. Im not sure why these conversations even start, you would think there are people in every nook and cranny shouting to the heavens that content is worthless. All some people, people like me, are saying is that better technology enhances that moment.

Better resolving power allows you to see your daughters expression better in that dark birthday photo of her blowing out the candles. It allows you to see the painful expression of the soccer player getting taken out by a sweep. It allow us to see every splatter of blood spray as the boxer gets knocked out. Sure the moment matters, but nobody said it didn't, and if the two do not counter eachother, moment/technology, then why ignore either of them?

This is the conversation that should be taking place, why do so many people insist that technology doesn't matter, not the other way around.
 
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Thom should know better---and does. The history of photography is very rich already, after only just shy of 2 centuries, and it is not "always about the moment".

Anytime someone makes a statement about something like photography, or any other medium in the realm of visual culture, that states that it is always this way or that----it is almost always (not my qualification, there) wrong. In the main because it is limiting.

--
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter? Is there a famous photograph out there where people love it because of it's resolution, or it's dynamic range, or some other purely technical attribute, even though the subject/composition is uninteresting?
All you are doing is ensuring a stalemate. Can you show me a famous landscape or macro shot that has bad blurriness, is 1000 pixels in size, has completely ruined colors, or that ended up with 2 stops of DR for the entire scene? Technical merit matters for every shot, just not the same amount for every shot. Some need it more, some need it less, but to claim that it never matters is plain dumb. It just sounds like what people say who want an excuse to use the cheapest and simplest gear.
Where did I say technical quality never matters? I did not - that was your interpretation.

An great photograph taken with a D80 (or even older tech) will always be more appealing than a boring photograph taken with a D810. This is assuming both are reasonably well executed technically. I agree that if the technique is so poor that the resulting image is a poor representation of the moment then the moment is gone. But this just reinforces the fact that it's all about the moment.

In fact, I've found that people will react positively to an interesting picture even if it has technical issues, but I've NEVER had anybody ask me to print out a picture strictly because it had high resolution and/or dynamic range. Those things certainly make a great composition even better, but if the composition is boring, only gear-heads will marvel at the resolution.

I'm not one to say that equipment doesn't matter. It clearly does matter in low light, when shooting wide or long, etc. But we have to be realistic that most image capturing devices available today have enough technical quality that it's possible to create engaging images with nearly any modern camera, and even most smart phones, when viewed on a typical viewing device, at least in non-challenging shooting scenarios. Although I personally believe that when people start unpacking 4K TVs they are going to be let down a bit by most of their smart phone shots.

It is about the moment, more than anything else. This is why people say "the best camera is the one you have with you."
 
In response to some of the disagreeing positions above, I do not think Thom Hogam meant that technology was important. We all know it is. I believe he was simply saying that ultimately it is the content of a photo that matters most. And I do not think he was suggesting a 'decisive moment' in the Bresson sense. I believe he was saying that it is the fraction of a second in which most (not all) photographs are made that means the most regardless of the level of technology. If one looks back over the more than 150 years photographs have been taken, you will see many good ones taken from the first photo technology to today's technology. The one thing they have in common is the moment.
 
In response to some of the disagreeing positions above, I do not think Thom Hogam meant that technology was important. We all know it is. I believe he was simply saying that ultimately it is the content of a photo that matters most. And I do not think he was suggesting a 'decisive moment' in the Bresson sense. I believe he was saying that it is the fraction of a second in which most (not all) photographs are made that means the most regardless of the level of technology. If one looks back over the more than 150 years photographs have been taken, you will see many good ones taken from the first photo technology to today's technology. The one thing they have in common is the moment.

--
Richard Weisgrau
www.drawnwithlight.com
I agree Richard, this is all very true, but I can't for the life of me, remember anybody anywhere saying the "moment" didn't matter. Im not sure why these conversations even start, you would think there are people in every nook and cranny shouting to the heavens that content is worthless. All some people, people like me, are saying is that better technology enhances that moment.

Better resolving power allows you to see your daughters expression better in that dark birthday photo of her blowing out the candles. It allows you to see the painful expression of the soccer player getting taken out by a sweep. It allow us to see every splatter of blood spray as the boxer gets knocked out. Sure the moment matters, but nobody said it didn't, and if the two do not counter eachother, moment/technology, then why ignore either of them?

This is the conversation that should be taking place, why do so many people insist that technology doesn't matter, not the other way around.
I actually agree with you 100%. Unusual for me to be so entirely aligned.
:-D
 
Thom should know better---and does. The history of photography is very rich already, after only just shy of 2 centuries, and it is not "always about the moment".

Anytime someone makes a statement about something like photography, or any other medium in the realm of visual culture, that states that it is always this way or that----it is almost always (not my qualification, there) wrong. In the main because it is limiting.

--
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter? Is there a famous photograph out there where people love it because of it's resolution, or it's dynamic range, or some other purely technical attribute, even though the subject/composition is uninteresting?
All you are doing is ensuring a stalemate. Can you show me a famous landscape or macro shot that has bad blurriness, is 1000 pixels in size, has completely ruined colors, or that ended up with 2 stops of DR for the entire scene? Technical merit matters for every shot, just not the same amount for every shot. Some need it more, some need it less, but to claim that it never matters is plain dumb. It just sounds like what people say who want an excuse to use the cheapest and simplest gear.
Where did I say technical quality never matters? I did not - that was your interpretation.

An great photograph taken with a D80 (or even older tech) will always be more appealing than a boring photograph taken with a D810.
To reference what somebody recently said, "where did I say content never matters? I did not, that was your interpretation". So yes, what you say is true, but wouldn't that same shot taken with the D810 be even better than it was on the D80? That's what this is really about, the people who say gear does matter are not saying it in place of content, we are saying it along side content. Im not sure why some people (if it's not you then disregard) think this is the case.

This is assuming both are reasonably well executed technically. I agree that if the technique is so poor that the resulting image is a poor representation of the moment then the moment is gone. But this just reinforces the fact that it's all about the moment.
Completely true, but having a camera that focuses quicker, or at all as may be the case in low lighting, is always easier to manage. Having a lens that is sharp wide open rather than HAVING to be stopped down to get rid of the SA/CA is surely better no? I mean at worst, you will lose nothing but some cash, but at best you may get a shot you otherwise missed completely.

Some people say the best camera is the one you have with you, I say it's the best camera you have with you that can actually manage the shot. I was at our local state part once many years ago and witnessed two eagles fighting in the air, while one carried a fish in his mouth. Sure I had my phone with me, but what good did it do?


It is about the moment, more than anything else. This is why people say "the best camera is the one you have with you."
Haha I wrote the above before I even read this line. I stand on what I said above anyhow, sometimes the minimalist camera you have with you is completely inadequate.
 
Thom should know better---and does. The history of photography is very rich already, after only just shy of 2 centuries, and it is not "always about the moment".

Anytime someone makes a statement about something like photography, or any other medium in the realm of visual culture, that states that it is always this way or that----it is almost always (not my qualification, there) wrong. In the main because it is limiting.

--
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter? Is there a famous photograph out there where people love it because of it's resolution, or it's dynamic range, or some other purely technical attribute, even though the subject/composition is uninteresting?
All you are doing is ensuring a stalemate. Can you show me a famous landscape or macro shot that has bad blurriness, is 1000 pixels in size, has completely ruined colors, or that ended up with 2 stops of DR for the entire scene? Technical merit matters for every shot, just not the same amount for every shot. Some need it more, some need it less, but to claim that it never matters is plain dumb. It just sounds like what people say who want an excuse to use the cheapest and simplest gear.
Where did I say technical quality never matters? I did not - that was your interpretation.

An great photograph taken with a D80 (or even older tech) will always be more appealing than a boring photograph taken with a D810.
To reference what somebody recently said, "where did I say content never matters? I did not, that was your interpretation". So yes, what you say is true, but wouldn't that same shot taken with the D810 be even better than it was on the D80? That's what this is really about, the people who say gear does matter are not saying it in place of content, we are saying it along side content. Im not sure why some people (if it's not you then disregard) think this is the case.
This is assuming both are reasonably well executed technically. I agree that if the technique is so poor that the resulting image is a poor representation of the moment then the moment is gone. But this just reinforces the fact that it's all about the moment.
Completely true, but having a camera that focuses quicker, or at all as may be the case in low lighting, is always easier to manage. Having a lens that is sharp wide open rather than HAVING to be stopped down to get rid of the SA/CA is surely better no? I mean at worst, you will lose nothing but some cash, but at best you may get a shot you otherwise missed completely.

Some people say the best camera is the one you have with you, I say it's the best camera you have with you that can actually manage the shot. I was at our local state part once many years ago and witnessed two eagles fighting in the air, while one carried a fish in his mouth. Sure I had my phone with me, but what good did it do?
It is about the moment, more than anything else. This is why people say "the best camera is the one you have with you."
Haha I wrote the above before I even read this line. I stand on what I said above anyhow, sometimes the minimalist camera you have with you is completely inadequate.
I think we are fairly closely aligned on all this - everything you say is true. My reaction was to tex's original position that photography isn't always about the moment. I am genuinely interested in an example of a great photograph that had nothing to do with the moment and had some other desirable characteristic. No doubt technology makes it possible to capture more moments, and can make the reproduction of those moments even more engaging, but, it's still about the moment, as best I can tell. But I'm open to examples that prove otherwise!
 
Thom should know better---and does. The history of photography is very rich already, after only just shy of 2 centuries, and it is not "always about the moment".

Anytime someone makes a statement about something like photography, or any other medium in the realm of visual culture, that states that it is always this way or that----it is almost always (not my qualification, there) wrong. In the main because it is limiting.

--
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter?
Sure---lots of sports and stop action photography have little to do with composition, and some only marginally about subject matter. But ....are we only talking about famous photographs? What would they be? That's a can of worms...
Is there a famous photograph out there where people love it because of it's resolution, or it's dynamic range, or some other purely technical attribute, even though the subject/composition is uninteresting?
You apparently didn't read what I wrote. I spoke only to his statement "...always about the moment" (emphases mine). The history of photography easily demonstrates that is not the case.

It's that "always" and "moment" bit that I think is untrue, demonstrably so.

As for what you have brought up....probably we could find something, perhaps a lot of things. Some of the first photographs, for instance. Or for instance certain images of space or the subatomic realm, for which the technical achievement is the overriding quality for it being "famous".
 
Thom should know better---and does. The history of photography is very rich already, after only just shy of 2 centuries, and it is not "always about the moment".

Anytime someone makes a statement about something like photography, or any other medium in the realm of visual culture, that states that it is always this way or that----it is almost always (not my qualification, there) wrong. In the main because it is limiting.

--
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter?
Sure---lots of sports and stop action photography have little to do with composition, and some only marginally about subject matter. But ....are we only talking about famous photographs? What would they be? That's a can of worms...
Is there a famous photograph out there where people love it because of it's resolution, or it's dynamic range, or some other purely technical attribute, even though the subject/composition is uninteresting?
You apparently didn't read what I wrote. I spoke only to his statement "...always about the moment" (emphases mine). The history of photography easily demonstrates that is not the case.

It's that "always" and "moment" bit that I think is untrue, demonstrably so.

As for what you have brought up....probably we could find something, perhaps a lot of things. Some of the first photographs, for instance. Or for instance certain images of space or the subatomic realm, for which the technical achievement is the overriding quality for it being "famous".
Scientific photography. Interesting example. I could argue that such images are ALL about the moment (how interesting is the shot of the moment just AFTER the particle splits?), but I don't care to go down that path. Sports? Certainly about the moment, but in a different way.

Perhaps his his statement is a bit hyperbolic. Buy only slightly, in my opinion. Adding pixels or dynamic range to a boring photograph doesn't make it any more desirable to most people.
 
I think we are fairly closely aligned on all this - everything you say is true. My reaction was to tex's original position that photography isn't always about the moment. I am genuinely interested in an example of a great photograph that had nothing to do with the moment and had some other desirable characteristic. No doubt technology makes it possible to capture more moments, and can make the reproduction of those moments even more engaging, but, it's still about the moment, as best I can tell. But I'm open to examples that prove otherwise!
We are on the same page then. The only thing I would add is a distinction here. There are two parts to photography, the viewer and the shooter, and the experience is very different for them. For the viewer, yes, the content is a must, with the technical parts enhancing the experience. But for the shooter, sometimes the technology is more important, sometimes that's all that matters. I know people who do all kinds of stuff bc they simply like the experience.

Not all people who work on cars actually drive them, they just like to restore cars. Some people like to paint but don't care much to look at art. As long as people understand there is a difference between shooting and viewing, all is well. Now if we could only get people to stop looking down on gearheads, the world would be a great place.
 
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I think we are fairly closely aligned on all this - everything you say is true. My reaction was to tex's original position that photography isn't always about the moment. I am genuinely interested in an example of a great photograph that had nothing to do with the moment and had some other desirable characteristic. No doubt technology makes it possible to capture more moments, and can make the reproduction of those moments even more engaging, but, it's still about the moment, as best I can tell. But I'm open to examples that prove otherwise!
We are on the same page then. The only thing I would add is a distinction here. There are two parts to photography, the viewer and the shooter, and the experience is very different for them. For the viewer, yes, the content is a must, with the technical parts enhancing the experience. But for the shooter, sometimes the technology is more important, sometimes that's all that matters. I know people who do all kinds of stuff bc they simply like the experience.

Not all people who work on cars actually drive them, they just like to restore cars. Some people like to paint but don't care much to look at art. As long as people understand there is a difference between shooting and viewing, all is well. Now if we could only get people to stop looking down on gearheads, the world would be a great place.
Oh I agree! I'm a gear-head, for sure. And while I also want to create something people want to look at it, if I found the process laborious or uninteresting I wouldn't do it. I love my Fuji gear!
 
Yet with the advent of performance improvements (engine power, better transmissions, handling advances), creature comforts (better suspensions, tires, seats), and safety (crumple zones, air bags, anti-lock brakes, traction control), newer cars let us get from A -> B in a faster, more comfortable, and more consistently safer manner. I see camera improvements in the same light.
1985 rx7 ?
 
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter?
Can you show us a photo from 20 years ago taken in near darkness at the equivalent exposure of ISO 25,600?
Hit the nail on the head. It is not that the technical, alone, make for a great photo. It is that the technical make many great photos possible.

All take all the DR, megapixels, fast glass, and ISO tricks I can afford. Not everyone worships a Holga (not that there's anything wrong with that).
 
Thom should know better---and does. The history of photography is very rich already, after only just shy of 2 centuries, and it is not "always about the moment".

Anytime someone makes a statement about something like photography, or any other medium in the realm of visual culture, that states that it is always this way or that----it is almost always (not my qualification, there) wrong. In the main because it is limiting.

--
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter? Is there a famous photograph out there where people love it because of it's resolution, or it's dynamic range, or some other purely technical attribute, even though the subject/composition is uninteresting?
... which are posted around here. Their takers certainly seem to love them :-) More infamous than famous, though.

Regards, Mike
 
Thom should know better---and does. The history of photography is very rich already, after only just shy of 2 centuries, and it is not "always about the moment".

Anytime someone makes a statement about something like photography, or any other medium in the realm of visual culture, that states that it is always this way or that----it is almost always (not my qualification, there) wrong. In the main because it is limiting.

--
Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter? Is there a famous photograph out there where people love it because of it's resolution, or it's dynamic range, or some other purely technical attribute, even though the subject/composition is uninteresting?
Can you show us a photo from 20 years ago taken in near darkness at the equivalent exposure of ISO 25,600?
No - that moment in time was lost due to the prevailing technical limitations.

Regards, Mike
 
I both agree and disagree.

Agree, because I take the shot because of wanting a capture of the moment. I want to record the moment so that I can do something with it later.

I obviously need the technical capabilities appropriate to the moment - if it's high contrast, I need more DR; if it's fine detail, I want more resolution; if it's far away, I need a longer focal length (or more resolution); if it moves fast, I profit from fast accurate AF and/or high fps; etc. But in all cases the technical capabilities are a means to the end - being able to capture the moment, being able to capture more kinds of moments. They are not the end itself, never.

Now comes the time after the capture - and the disagreement starts. I have absolutely no need for instantly sharing the capture. None at all. I prefer to take my time, sort out the captures, process my favourites to my liking (here again the technical capabilities come into play - the better they are at the moment of capture, the more room I have for my processing), and then, perhaps, share them. But that is just as likely to be a hard copy print on the wall as an upload to a photosite (well, not quite as likely, but printing is still a significat part of where my images end up).

So no, I don't ride that instant gratification wave. But I want to capture the moment, and for that I want not the best but the most appropriate technical capabilities.

Does that change the fact that a majority of images are taken, uploaded somewhere and then probably forgotton? No. And neither does it change the fact that many people want their photography that way. I am just happy that there is still room for other ways of doing it and that we have other gear choices, too.

Regards, Mike

--
Wait and see...
I hardly ever speak for anybody but myself. In the cases where I do mean to speak generally the statements are likely to be marked as such.
 
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Can you show me a photograph that is famous for something other than composition or subject matter?
Can you show us a photo from 20 years ago taken in near darkness at the equivalent exposure of ISO 25,600?
Hit the nail on the head. It is not that the technical, alone, make for a great photo. It is that the technical make many great photos possible.
And so it is about the moment first and foremost :-) You get a better camera to get more moments, not just to get a better camera :-)

Regards, Mike
 

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