Loxia 50 or FE 55?

Snikt228 said:

Hi -- I'm debating between the Loxia 50 F2 Planar and the FE 55 1.8. I've been through the forum and read pretty much every review on the subject (DearSusan, Verybiglobo, Steve, etc..) talking about the Loxia line. People seem pretty divided on which they would choose.

I'm curious now that more time has gone by and more Loxias are out there, what people think, especially people who own or use both the L50/2 and the FE55?

There are things I like about both so that's why it's a little harder to choose.

For my usage the 24-70Z is my "normal" lens and this prime would be my I want to slow down, be more creative, maybe not with the wife lens. Which actually possibly leads more to the Loxia since MF itself forces this a bit.

FE55:

Pros:

*Cheaper (I would consider Gray market which this lens is $750)

*AF

*Slightly Faster

Loxia 50

Pros:

*Better build / real zeiss lens

*Better MF experience and manual controls

*Smaller

From the reviews I've seen the top 2 things people can't agree on and even contradict each other is Bokeh and "Character". With maybe 50% of people saying the Sonnar is better and 50% of people saying the Planar is better.

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I have used both but own the Sony Z 55mm f1.8 . I do like both lenses for different reasons. If you have the 24-70mm lens then you have the auto focus covered and the zoom is very good at 50mm. I would go for the Loxia 50mm I like shooting manual focus when I want to be more creative as well. Since I have the 55mm already I would not bother to switch over to the Zeiss I can just set the camera to MF but the Loxia build is just spectacular and you feel the quality when your using the focus ring. I personally feel that the Loxia has a bit more snap to its images as well. I like the Sony 55mm for shooting events where I need the lens speed and don't always have time or want to focus up the lens.

Cheers Dennis Biela

Snikt228 said:

Hi -- I'm debating between the Loxia 50 F2 Planar and the FE 55 1.8.

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I feel this will be an endless matter of discussion. I've already seen many threads here regarding the Sony Zeiss vs Zeiss Loxia.

Snikt228 said:

I've been through the forum and read pretty much every review on the subject (DearSusan, Verybiglobo, Steve, etc..) talking about the Loxia line. People seem pretty divided on which they would choose.

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Yeah, I've been through this as well.

Snikt228 said:

I'm curious now that more time has gone by and more Loxias are out there, what people think, especially people who own or use both the L50/2 and the FE55?

There are things I like about both so that's why it's a little harder to choose.

For my usage the 24-70Z is my "normal" lens and this prime would be my I want to slow down, be more creative, maybe not with the wife lens. Which actually possibly leads more to the Loxia since MF itself forces this a bit.

Click to expand...

This sounds to me like the decisive point. Lacking AF will make you slower, and a bit more aware of the actual shooting process. It will also make it easier to shoot stuff in reflections, through obstacles, in severe backlight and so on. Stuff that is hard to achieve with AF. Sure, the FE55 can be used in MF mode too, but the Loxia simply excels in that area.

Snikt228 said:

FE55:

Pros:

*Cheaper (I would consider Gray market which this lens is $750)

*AF

*Slightly Faster

Loxia 50

Pros:

*Better build / real zeiss lens

*Better MF experience and manual controls

*Smaller

Click to expand...

I think your list of pros is pretty much spot on.

Snikt228 said:

From the reviews I've seen the top 2 things people can't agree on and even contradict each other is Bokeh and "Character". With maybe 50% of people saying the Sonnar is better and 50% of people saying the Planar is better.

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Yes, bokeh and sharpness is slightly better on the FE55. But that's only part of the package. The Loxia delivers richer colours and a more contrasty look.

Can you rent both and try them out? Then you can decide for yourself.

If you are considering a MF 50mm lens, with true character, then you should also consider the Zeiss C Sonnar T f1.5 50mm ZM lens. A true classic.

You have read everything and can't make up your mind? So what info do you expect here? I have the 55/1.8 and like it a lot. But what does that mean? How is that going to help you?

Richer colors, more contrasty look - what does this mean? I can make any photo as contrasty or as rich in color as I want, with a simple slider in any photo editing program. I can however not add to sharpness (real sharpness, not perceived sharpness) or improve the bokeh in post.

It means that the shots look very good, even without processing. And it's not like the FE55 is a lot sharper, the difference is very very small.

I honestly doubt these differences even exist. Microcontrast is a different matter, cause that is directly related to sharpness.

I would never buy a lens for allegedly having "better colors" or "more contrasty look". Quite in contrary, often a lower contrast is better, cause it gives you more flexibility in post processing.

Beaverhelmet said:

This sounds to me like the decisive point. Lacking AF will make you slower, and a bit more aware of the actual shooting process. It will also make it easier to shoot stuff in reflections, through obstacles, in severe backlight and so on. Stuff that is hard to achieve with AF. Sure, the FE55 can be used in MF mode too, but the Loxia simply excels in that area.

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One thing a low light shooters should notice is that the Loxia cannot be automatically focused wide open when chosen aperture is a stopped down one. With Live View Setting effect "off" the FE 55 will remain wide open untill shutter is pressed. In very low light shooting conditions this means FE 55 can give a significantly less noisy and more contrasty/sharp EVF picture and peaking will better show where critical focus is.

I'm a Zeiss MF lens fan, but this is the reason why I'm not that into Loxias on longer focal lengths. IMO it is a bit funny that my smart adapted APO Sonnar can be automatically focused wide open but a native Loxia cannot.

Funny. I've used my legacy glass and Loxia in stopped down mode in all lighting conditions for many years, and never seen this as an issue. Sure, the EVF is noisier when it is really dark, but still good enough for good focus accuracy.

Depends on what you are looking for in your "slower & more creative" shooting I supposed. Personally I'd actually go with Loxia 35 since I find the focal length to be more flexible as a general walk-about slow-pace shooting. If you don't much care for ultimate image quality I suspect you might enjoy cheaper manual focus lens option via an adapter. If you do, I think you'll be happy with either Loxia 50 or 35. I rarely use my AF lenses since I started to use manual lenses. Now that I've got more experienced with them, I don't usually find the manual focus to be a limiting factor anymore (actually, I can focus faster in many cases since AF doesn't always know where I'd to focus on and focus re-compose can be too slow sometimes). The only situation I find manual focusing limiting is when I need to quickly acquire focus on a moving subject, and when I'm at very shallow depth of field like f/1.4 under direct sunlight (making seeng focus peaking difficult in the EVF for a glasses-wearer).

All and all, I think manual lenses are fantastic fun on the A7. Regardless which one you end up getting, I would strongly advice against not exploring manual shooting.

Beaverhelmet said:

Funny. I've used my legacy glass and Loxia in stopped down mode in all lighting conditions for many years, and never seen this as an issue. Sure, the EVF is noisier when it is really dark, but still good enough for good focus accuracy.

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It kind depends on what focal length and in how much darkness you shoot. I've shot flash photography in such a darkness that I do not know without EVF gain push (B/W creative style obviously) if the subject has eyes open or closed. IMO for shorter focal lengths where max aperture and shooting aperture tend to be closer and the DoF is bigger this does not matter so much, but from normal to tele I sure want to take every advantage I can get. With my APO for example an tightly framed portrait has pretty short DoF even at F/5.6 so I sure like to take the 3 stops advantage that wide open focus is gonna give me.

There's also the fact that with wide open focus (with glass that is supersharp from fully open like the FE 55 or APO) I can often tell the focus is perfect when I see any peaking in the eyes. Wide open focus will show more accurate peaking and with less noise there are also cases where peaking would not be shown if stoped down. All this is only usable if the glass does not have any meaningfull focus shift.

Not saying there is wrong or right answer here, but just wanted to remind that there is a helpful feature available in lenses with electronic aperture.

Alpha Photo said:

You have read everything and can't make up your mind? So what info do you expect here? I have the 55/1.8 and like it a lot. But what does that mean? How is that going to help you?

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Well people that have used both will have the actual experience, that's what I was expecting. They might after using both for some time have a preference towards one or the other.

Also reviews can be biased, it's always better to hear from real people

tn1krr said:

Beaverhelmet said:

Funny. I've used my legacy glass and Loxia in stopped down mode in all lighting conditions for many years, and never seen this as an issue. Sure, the EVF is noisier when it is really dark, but still good enough for good focus accuracy.

Click to expand...

It kind depends on what focal length and in how much darkness you shoot. I've shot flash photography in such a darkness that I do not know without EVF gain push (B/W creative style obviously) if the subject has eyes open or closed. IMO for shorter focal lengths where max aperture and shooting aperture tend to be closer and the DoF is bigger this does not matter so much, but from normal to tele I sure want to take every advantage I can get. With my APO for example an tightly framed portrait has pretty short DoF even at F/5.6 so I sure like to take the 3 stops advantage that wide open focus is gonna give me.

There's also the fact that with wide open focus (with glass that is supersharp from fully open like the FE 55 or APO) I can often tell the focus is perfect when I see any peaking in the eyes. Wide open focus will show more accurate peaking and with less noise there are also cases where peaking would not be shown if stoped down. All this is only usable if the glass does not have any meaningfull focus shift.

Not saying there is wrong or right answer here, but just wanted to remind that there is a helpful feature available in lenses with electronic aperture.

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Point taken. I mostly work with available light, down to candle lit scenes with no trouble. But I normally shoot wide open or close to wide open on these occasions, so I guess my shooting style is not that affected by this.

tn1krr said:

Beaverhelmet said:

This sounds to me like the decisive point. Lacking AF will make you slower, and a bit more aware of the actual shooting process. It will also make it easier to shoot stuff in reflections, through obstacles, in severe backlight and so on. Stuff that is hard to achieve with AF. Sure, the FE55 can be used in MF mode too, but the Loxia simply excels in that area.

Click to expand...

One thing a low light shooters should notice is that the Loxia cannot be automatically focused wide open when chosen aperture is a stopped down one. With Live View Setting effect "off" the FE 55 will remain wide open untill shutter is pressed. In very low light shooting conditions this means FE 55 can give a significantly less noisy and more contrasty/sharp EVF picture and peaking will better show where critical focus is.

Click to expand...

focusing with a lens wide open, then stopping down to shoot, introduces the possibility of focus shifting.

when i tested several legacy 50/1.4 primes, they all had really bad focus shift at the max aperture... it was so bad that i'd never use that technique with that glass, or at least not focusing fully wide open.

i wouldn't expect so much of that from lenses at the fe55 level, but i wouldn't shoot any lens without testing it first... testing not just with focus peaking, but at longer distances, using full magnification, because it's more accurate.

we need to know how the glass behaves at all apertures, if we expect to get the most out of it.

--
dan

osv said:

tn1krr said:

Beaverhelmet said:

This sounds to me like the decisive point. Lacking AF will make you slower, and a bit more aware of the actual shooting process. It will also make it easier to shoot stuff in reflections, through obstacles, in severe backlight and so on. Stuff that is hard to achieve with AF. Sure, the FE55 can be used in MF mode too, but the Loxia simply excels in that area.

Click to expand...

One thing a low light shooters should notice is that the Loxia cannot be automatically focused wide open when chosen aperture is a stopped down one. With Live View Setting effect "off" the FE 55 will remain wide open untill shutter is pressed. In very low light shooting conditions this means FE 55 can give a significantly less noisy and more contrasty/sharp EVF picture and peaking will better show where critical focus is.

Click to expand...

focusing with a lens wide open, then stopping down to shoot, introduces the possibility of focus shifting.

Click to expand...

Like I mentioned in another post, the wide open focus obviously only works for glass with no focus shift worth mentioning.

osv said:

when i tested several legacy 50/1.4 primes, they all had really bad focus shift at the max aperture... it was so bad that i'd never use that technique with that glass, or at least not focusing fully wide open.

i wouldn't expect so much of that from lenses at the fe55 level, but i wouldn't shoot any lens without testing it first... testing not just with focus peaking, but at longer distances, using full magnification, because it's more accurate.

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People much more skilled than me have tested/noticed that there is not focus shift worth mentioning in the APO 135 and I've tested my FE 55 in this regard for my most used apertures (I pracctically never go above F/5.6) in indoor distance. Lenscal target or similar is very good for this as I can be 100% sure that my initial wide open focus is spot on by using the focus scale on the target

osv said:

we need to know how the glass behaves at all apertures, if we expect to get the most out of it.

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Owning/buying good glass is only 1st step, understanding that glass (focus behavior, field curvature..) is needed too.

Honestly, the two lenses are so close, it comes down to personal preferences - which is why I doubt this forum will help you much. Try them yourself, then decide - or buy both and return the one you like less...

i find that mf is great for a while, but if you shoot people you want a to be sure you can get accurate focus in most situations

Apples vs Oranges

Do you prefer an Apple or an Orange... that's what you have to decide.

Snikt228,

I have both lens mentioned. I started with the FE 55 but due to 2 occasions the AF did not work, I placed an order for the Loxia to replace it.

Prior to the Loxia arriving, it snowed in Dallas and I captured my 2 sons playing in the snow. Having the AF is great and I would not have been able to capture these moments as successfully with the Loxia. The AF is a bonus for these type of scenarios.

I've been using the Loxia for my product photography and it is an absolute joy to use. I only use manual focus and the FE 55 does not provide me the same experience as the Loxia.

Both lens are great and it really is going to boil down to how you will be using it. If you need to photograph subjects that have unpredictable movement and shoot wide open I'd recommend the FE 55.

The perfect lens would be:
1. Loxia build and direct focusing
2.AF and aperture control ring like the new FE 35mm f/1.4 where manual focusing is wide open regardless of what aperture you set the ring at and including the "A" setting to choose aperture with the control dials.
3. The size you wish it to be as some like it bigger/smaller than others

I can upload some photos shot with both tonight. Both lenses are beyond the point of sufficiency and what matters more is what your needs are. I'll be keeping both.
Josh