OT: Forum log - PC coming back up to snuff

Well, some of you may (or may not) remember that about 1.5 weeks ago my desktop workstation had started to exhibit some strange tendencies, with frequent reboots for no explained reason. Finally, it just wouldn't boot into Windows anymore. It would just endlessly cycle into reboot after reboot. I'd never had this happen before.

So Shay and I took a couple of days and made a serious attempt to track down the problem. I know my way around a PC pretty well, but this was stumping me. Shay helped me narrow down what was happening, and we finally concluded after MANY, MANY hours of straight work (and Shay all sick and sniffly, too) that it was probably either my hard drive, the HDD controller on the motherboard, or the motherboard itself was toast.

It was time to make some decisions. Well, you know me. I don't do ANYTHING piecemeal, and prefer taking a big stick approach to most things and just start whacking until the job is REALLY done.



We went out and got a new motherboard, a Jetway Kocab 18P with plenty of onboard support for networking, sound, USB 2.0, and the nForce2 chipset (I use an AMD Athlon XP processor). Plenty powerful, and a fast board, noticeably faster than my original Gigabyte board. Room for up to 3 gigs of RAM, too.
http://www.jetway.com.tw/evisn/product/amd/kocab18/kocab18.htm





I figured I might as well take advantage of one of the two the Serial ATA interfaces on the mobo, and so I got a Seagate Barracude 120GB drive, some 20% larger than my prevous drive, 7200 RPM, and 9ms seek time. Happy again.
http://seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,563,00.html



I opted to keep my present video card, a Leadtek board, Ti 500, based on the GeForce2 chip (I think) with 64MB of onboard RAM. I'm not a gamer, so I didn't need blistering 3D performance.

I did, however, figure on doing one thing significantly different. The whole reason I was in this mess in the first place was because I hadn't been doing sufficient/adequate backups. Matter of fact, I had sort of sat on my laurels because I'd never had a truly catastrophic loss of data before. I would set my backup software and forget it. However, it turns out that I hadn't been backing up anywhere CLOSE to all of the folders that I had thought were being backed up. Matter of fact, I couldn't even fit on a CD all of the data that I needed to back up on a weekly basis. The result? Absolute disaster. Sooooo...

This time, I was going to ensure that I had the capacity to do proper backups. This time I got a DVD burner. I wanted to have good performance and good compatibility. So I got the Sony DRU-510A, the internal ATAPI version of their latest DVD burner that does it ALL. Virtually ALL the formats for both DVD and CD, reading and writing. I like it. I like it alot.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start ;sid=NMLsQ0HIGifsWn7EoC7mSA7FWbg6q1iAMSM=?ProductID=GvgKC0%2eNwPMAAAD23cUGtEFG





On the software end, I took Shay's recommendation to purchase Norton's Ghost software, to ensure easy installation of my default configuration. I was able to get all of that onto one DVD-R disk for archive purposes.
http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/



I also updated my regular backup software with Stompinc.com's Backup MyPC
http://www.stompinc.com/bump/bump-retail.phtml?stp





As I slowly installed my software and data, I carefully made plenty of Restore Points in Windows XP. I got the necessary XP updates as well as Service Pack 1. Windows had no issues recognizing my hardware configuration including my Sandisk 6-in-1 card reader (I needed SP1 for USB 2.0 capability to work, but I haven't tested the timings). It recognized my printer and network printer right away. It even recognized my scanner, but I haven't yet installed the TWAIN driver for that --- low priority.

Things are fast. Things are stable.

All I need to do now is keep everything cool. I have a new power supply on the way, a Vantec Stealth VAN-420A model. Very nice. Quiet. Three fans. Lots of power to spare. Very stable.
http://vantecusa.com/van420.html



It appears that some of my woes were caused by heat from the Athlon chip. Either that or a power problem. There were three melted capacitors on the board --- it really WAS fried. Hence the reason for the new power supply which appears to be fluctuating in its voltage, and I'm going to get a new CPU cooler, a Vantec Aeroflow VA4-C7040. Nice fan, copper core, innovative airflow technology
http://www.vantecusa.com/afc250.html



And now that I've over-solved my PC problems, I'm sure that my speakers are about to go next. Heheheheh...

Well, I hope you've enjoyed this little story about a boy and his gear.

Anything else you'd suggest for adding to my virtually new setup?

I think I'll be building my own from now on. It was frustrating at first, but fun in the end, and I have a system I'm happy with. I lost a lot of stuff, but I was forced to clean out and reorganize.

--

Ulysses

now I want all those goodies you have installed, well at least Sony universal DVD writer Hopefully you'll never loose your data again.

It would be interesting to get update of this story when you settle up with backup routine.

--
Thanks,
Slava

Uly...I've been reciving this newsletter for years. Maybe you might like to subscribe to it. It's email based and free. Just scroll to bottom of this page to where it says "Subscribe". Always stuff in it about backing up and all the latest stuff also!
http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2003/2003-07-03.htm
Bill

Wow this must have killed a few spare hours for you and Shay!! I am sure you will enjoy it though!

I took the easy way out recently (don't think I'm techie enough- no patience when it comes to building things) and bought a whole new system to the specs that i required.

For my birthday a couple of weeks ago, I was given an Epson multi function printer which is just what I wanted to complete my new system so I know exactly how you feel right about now.

Good luck with it all.

Cheers Ko

--
My aim is to live forever.....so far so good.

I use Ghost also, albeit in a different configuration. With the price of hard drives declining, I simply added an extra biggie, and backup the entire C drive onto the new drive. I do this from a DOS boot, so I can restore everything if desired.

The new drive is large enough to accomodate more than one backup, so I wrote a few simple scripts that alternate backups to two different files. Takes about 20 minutes to do a backup, and I do one/week.

Ghost is great!

--
Thomas Niemann
http://epaperpress.com

Hi,

After buying and using several HP's, a Compaq, a scratchbuilt from a dealer, a (shudder) Gateway... and a few Dells at work Marcie and I are now building our own, also. The problem is Friends and Fam all know and our number is listed as "tech support" on their phones.
Did you catch this little story of ours a few months back....
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=5087252
We were laughing through the whole affair. Somewhat...

Thanks for all the info, I have not read all of the links yet. I am looking for a backup routine for work. Something that will only backup the files that have been added or modified in the selected folders.

Mikeeeee

--
We want fun 'cos we medically need it! A.W.K.

Very nice...I built mine a little while ago using an ASUS board, P4 2.4 mhz, 80 gig HD, Lian-Li case with side window and a Geforce 3 card. Using XP Home and it's very stable.

Dave

Uly,

I had the same rebooting problem on my PC. I have an Athelon processor too. My problems were caused by overheating also. I've managed to resolve the problem by opening up the case and setting up a fan to cool off the inner workings (temporary fix). Thanks to some of the STF folks I've discovered that the Athelon processors have an overheating issue especially when running photo editing software (or any other memory intensive programs).

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

Wow.... just posted and then had dinner. And already I see plenty of interest in this thread. Unexpected.

Yeah, I'll update as I can and as things stabilize and improve. I'm back to using the workstation full-time, and things are very smooth, for the most part.

I need to consider how I'm going to integrate Ghost's drive imaging into my backup routine. But I'm very happy right now with what I have with Backup MyPC, also. for now.

CTzen said:

now I want all those goodies you have installed, well at least Sony
universal DVD writer Hopefully you'll never loose your data
again.

It would be interesting to get update of this story when you settle
up with backup routine.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Thanks for the link, Bill.

While I doubt that I'll subscribe, I may very well go check out their web edition every couple of weeks. It looks interesting and packed with info.

Bill Borne said:

Uly...I've been reciving this newsletter for years. Maybe you might
like to subscribe to it. It's email based and free. Just scroll to
bottom of this page to where it says "Subscribe". Always stuff in
it about backing up and all the latest stuff also!
http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2003/2003-07-03.htm
Bill

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Hi there, Ko.

TheKoala said:

Wow this must have killed a few spare hours for you and Shay!! I am
sure you will enjoy it though!

Click to expand...

You have NO idea. And you have NO idea.

It was fun, bewildering, puzzling, frustrating, confounding, and yet more fun all at once.

It was also a LOT of hours.

TheKoala said:

I took the easy way out recently (don't think I'm techie enough- no
patience when it comes to building things) and bought a whole new
system to the specs that i required.

Click to expand...

I've always wanted to build my own system. I'd once even priced all of my components and was ready to go, but I didn't have the time to go through the process back then. I chose a company that would assemble the components for me.

Now, I was forced to do practically the same thing. The frustrating part was trying to figure out whether we had a board issue or a drive issue. It wasn't readily apparent at first.

TheKoala said:

For my birthday a couple of weeks ago, I was given an Epson multi
function printer which is just what I wanted to complete my new
system so I know exactly how you feel right about now.

Click to expand...

I'm glad that everything is working so well for now.

I am considering an HP multifunction unit. I opted to lead the modem out of the equation. But I am considering a new printer anyway, and I'd like to simplify with a copier/printer/fax unit if possible. I'm in no rush and will consider my options and prices.

--

Ulysses

Hi there, Thomas. Thanks for checking in on this one. I have questions.

Thomas Niemann said:

I use Ghost also, albeit in a different configuration. With the
price of hard drives declining, I simply added an extra biggie, and
backup the entire C drive onto the new drive. I do this from a DOS
boot, so I can restore everything if desired.

Click to expand...

I am using Norton Ghost 2003. What it does is start out with a Windows interface to set up how you want to image the drive. And then it boots into DOS automatically and performs the image. Restoration works similarly, placing you into DOS for the process.

What version are you using?

I am considering getting a second drive myself. I haven't completely worked this out, but I'm considering a RAID setup, or perhaps using the second drive for drive imaging. Like I said, I haven't thought all of the pros/cons of either. Or maybe I could do a combination of the two.

Thomas Niemann said:

The new drive is large enough to accomodate more than one backup,
so I wrote a few simple scripts that alternate backups to two
different files. Takes about 20 minutes to do a backup, and I do
one/week.

Ghost is great!

Click to expand...

I know it's technically too late as I already have Ghost, but how would you compare it to PowerQuest Drive Image?

--

Ulysses

jr60004 said:

After buying and using several HP's, a Compaq, a scratchbuilt from
a dealer, a (shudder) Gateway... and a few Dells at work Marcie and
I are now building our own, also. The problem is Friends and Fam
all know and our number is listed as "tech support" on their phones.

Click to expand...

Somehow, if you spend enough time with this stuff, it always comes down to doing your own eventually, doesn't it?

jr60004 said:

Did you catch this little story of ours a few months back....
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=5087252

Click to expand...

No, I didn't catch that one. Pretty funny, though. Well, it's funny now.

Sounds like you had what Star Trek would call a 'cascade failure'.

All the problems sounded way too familiar.

jr60004 said:

Thanks for all the info, I have not read all of the links yet. I am
looking for a backup routine for work. Something that will only
backup the files that have been added or modified in the selected
folders.

Click to expand...

You may like Backup MyPC, or at least investigate the link for more info.

You can use it to schedule backups as per your specifications. You can choose what files and folders you want backed up. You can also choose to back up EVERYTHING, or you can back up files that have changed since the last FULL backup (differential), or you can back up files that have changed since the most recent backup of any type (incremental). It is pretty much a maintenance-free method of backing up. But remember, it's not the same as imaging the drive. The two have different purposes.

--

Ulysses

Uly, I feel I just went through Christmas w/you.

That's a fantastic setup. Good choice of a dvd-burner too. CD just doesn't cut it anymore (my opinion).

Three suggestions:

1) Purchase some DVD-RW or DVD+RW (difference being compatibility and 2x and 4x speed respectively). This way you can test before you burn (DVD media still isn't all that cheap). Also you can use the RW's as hard drives for backups, music libraries, et al.

I found Ebay to be the cheapest place for this - if you buy in bulk. ie: a 100 spindle (split it w/someone you know). Purchasing 100 DVD-RW over eBay and paying a hefty sum for p&p still makes it cheaper for me than the cheapest DVD-R spindle's I can get here in Australia.

2) I cannot live without music and am currently going through a Bach phase. I'd suggest a 5.1 or greater system. I have the Cambridge Soundworks 5.1 setup. I chose that because it's designed by Henry Kloss (audio akin to having a Carl Zeiss lens). One problem though is compatibility w/windows XP. You need to custom install (you wouldn't want the packaged software anyway - just the drivers). Another option is a THX 5.1 setup. I do recommend a Henry Kloss audio system though.

3) I see you bought drive image software - good man! One suggestion seeing as you're starting anew: get your computer the way you want it w/only windows/office + updates + drivers et al - do not load any other software on to it. Tweak the registry settings. Get your desktop looking the way you want. Turn off all those annoying 'features' and then when you're happy that you have a baseline system that flows like gold - only then take a snapshot (and save it to a DVD+-RW. This is your starting savepoint. Check this savepoint to make sure the operation performed correctly and then load all your software on, tweak it, update it et cetera and take another snapshot (do this each time you install new software).

Reasoning? Here's some scenario's for you:

Scenario 1: you've spent hours loading and tweaking software. Your system runs like a panther. Visitors seriously wonder if ET technology is in there somewhere it runs so smooth. You show them your blistering innernet speed and a popup ad ruins the ambience. Whoops - forgot a popup killer. You install one off the web and lo-and-behold your panther has developed a limp. Can't identify where it's located. You uninstall the popupkiller but the limp remains. The only option open is to type "format c:" at your command line and start again. (this has happened to me. I nearly cried after a week of intense loading/tweaking). No problem: you took a snapshot of your initial 'clean' system and can re-load your baseline snapshot.

Scenario 2: Your panther is now able to cloak, fly, and time-travel. You purchase a few other software suites, show your nephew the latest in 3D games: 'Pong'. He presses Alt-Shift-Enter which in XP talk means "format c:" (artistic license here folks - this is not the case) - but you've got a snapshot waiting, right? You load your snapshot w/a smug sense of pride at having the foresight to have made a backup. But wait - your system doesn't have PS8, or SP3, or a dozen other 'adjustments' you've made since your last backup. You now need to uninstall the previous versions and re-install the newer ones. Worse still is that you need to remember everything you've done to your system since your last backup. No problem: you've taken a backup each time you installed a new piece of software (or once a week) and modifying your system is only one backup away.

Scenario 3:You've installed all your programs and you are master of your domain. Three months later, experience has made you a little wiser and realise that life would be a lot easier if only you had set up your applications differently. No problem: re-install your initial snapshot and you're ready to build the system of your dreams - the 'new' and 'right' way.

I've experienced all three scenario's and an initial baseline snapshot and regular backups are essential for peace-of-mind.

Nice setup you've got there. Alienesque technology

Regards,
Simon.

Nice.

I already have an Inwin case, pretty much like the S506 at:
http://www.in-win.com.tw/home/english/pc_case/s_series_00.htm

A very, very nice case. Easy to work with. Lots of room. It already has two fans. The new power supply I'm getting has three fans of its own. So I'll have a lot of air movement.

The idea of having a case with a window is nice, but my workstation isn't positioned well for showing anything off anyway. So that's not a priority.

Dave_M said:

Very nice...I built mine a little while ago using an ASUS board, P4
2.4 mhz, 80 gig HD, Lian-Li case with side window and a Geforce
3 card. Using XP Home and it's very stable.

Dave

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Harry Behret said:

I had the same rebooting problem on my PC. I have an Athelon
processor too. My problems were caused by overheating also.

Click to expand...

The Athlon could fry eggs, couldn't it?

What is so surprising is that they can take VERY high temperatures without burning them out. It's the other board components that have the problem.

At any rate, it's not clear whether I was having some other board problem initially, or if the heating issue came first. I think there were a couple of things happening nearly simultaneously.

Whatever. It's toast. I gave the board to a friend, and he's going to try to install three new capacitors. We'll see what happens.

Harry Behret said:

some of the STF folks I've discovered that the Athelon processors
have an overheating issue especially when running photo editing
software (or any other memory intensive programs).

Click to expand...

Athlons (note the spelling) simply run hot! It can be any sort of program requiring lots of intensive calculations. Athlons are efficient, and they do a lot of work, but the byproduct is heat.

The key to keeping them cool is to install a proper fan. Now, AMD normally supplies a sufficient fan, but there are CPU coolers that do a lot better. you also need to ensure that your case INTAKE fan is pulling in more air (turning faster) than the fans that push air out. It all goes towards keeping things flowing and keeping cool. Otherwise, you have the risks that you and I have already been through.

Here is a great Tom's article on coolers for your CPU, if you haven't seen it:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030113/index.html





This was how I'd decided upon the Vantec Aeroflow VA4-C7040. I'm also looking forward to my PC being quieter.

--

Ulysses

I'm using 2002. To backup I boot off a DOS floppy disk and do the backup from there. It comes with all the goodies to format and create a DOS floppy, along with the necessary utilities. It requires FAT32 for large disks, and includes their version of fdisk (called gdisk, if I remember correctly).

If my C drive gets totally hosed, I just boot off the floppy, and restore from there. Actually, I've done this a few times ... it's a bit scary, but always works like a charm. Never tried PowerQuest Drive Image.

I know you didn't ask, but here's the backup script on my DOS floppy.

"bk.bat"
@echo off
if exist d:\%1a\LAST goto doB

:doA
if exist d:\%1b\LAST del d:\%1b\LAST
echo hello > d:\%1a\LAST
if exist d:\%1a\back*.* del d:\%1a\back*.*

ghostpe.exe -clone,mode=pdump,src=1:%1,dst=d:\%1a\back.gho -ial -fx -z1 -span -auto
goto EXIT

:doB
if exist d:\%1a\LAST del d:\%1a\LAST
echo hello > d:\%1b\LAST
if exist d:\%1b\back*.* del d:\%1b\back*.*

ghostpe.exe -clone,mode=pdump,src=1:%1,dst=d:\%1b\back.gho -ial -fx -z1 -span -auto
goto EXIT

:EXIT

--
Thomas Niemann
http://epaperpress.com

simon bennett said:

Uly, I feel I just went through Christmas w/you.

Click to expand...

Hahahah... I don't know about making your Christmas, but I'm all about sharing... all the time.

simon bennett said:

That's a fantastic setup. Good choice of a dvd-burner too. CD just
doesn't cut it anymore (my opinion).

Click to expand...

I'd decided pretty early on that I was going to go ahead with that. The only thing that stung was the price. But Circuit City was running a sale for $299 (which is some $30-50 off). I decided better to just take care of it than regret it later.

simon bennett said:

Three suggestions:

1) Purchase some DVD-RW or DVD+RW (difference being compatibility
and 2x and 4x speed respectively). This way you can test before you
burn (DVD media still isn't all that cheap). Also you can use the
RW's as hard drives for backups, music libraries, et al.

Click to expand...

I got the universal drive so that I could do whatever was necessary. For my own usage, I'll be using the DVD-RW for greatest compatibility for now.

simon bennett said:

I found Ebay to be the cheapest place for this - if you buy in
bulk. ie: a 100 spindle (split it w/someone you know). Purchasing
100 DVD-RW over eBay and paying a hefty sum for p&p still makes it
cheaper for me than the cheapest DVD-R spindle's I can get here in
Australia.

Click to expand...

One thing I've decided is that though the disks cost more, I'm going to be buy Quality first. For now, it's difficult to find consistency where the quality of off-namebrand disks are concerned.

I have what I need for now, but I'll take your advice up in the future as I re-examine my needs.

simon bennett said:

Another option is a THX 5.1 setup. I do recommend a Henry
Kloss audio system though.

Click to expand...

At least for now, the only thing I do on my workstation is work and image editing. I rarely use the sound at all, so my speakers are some of the the MOST basic you could imagine. heheheheh...

simon bennett said:

3) I see you bought drive image software - good man! One suggestion
seeing as you're starting anew: get your computer the way you want
it w/only windows/office + updates + drivers et al - do not load
any other software on to it. Tweak the registry settings. Get your
desktop looking the way you want. Turn off all those annoying
'features' and then when you're happy that you have a baseline
system that flows like gold - only then take a snapshot (and save
it to a DVD+-RW. This is your starting savepoint.

Click to expand...

Done. Only, without the Windows updates (I think... or did I?).

Oh well, it was my first drive imaging effort. It will get me most of the way there. And it will be a very clean setup.

--

Ulysses

Thomas Niemann said:

I'm using 2002. To backup I boot off a DOS floppy disk and do the
backup from there. It comes with all the goodies to format and
create a DOS floppy, along with the necessary utilities. It
requires FAT32 for large disks, and includes their version of fdisk
(called gdisk, if I remember correctly).

Click to expand...

Okay. I think a key difference, at least in my implementation is that I can back up to DVD disk, and this disk is BOOTABLE. From there I can do the required operations.

Thomas Niemann said:

goto EXIT

:EXIT

Click to expand...

You DOS-head guys are absolutely amazing. Ever since I discovered Windows, my DOS skills have gone to seed.

--

Ulysses

What bothers me about these is that if say the copier function goes out you have to do without your printer and fax while the unit is in for service because of the copier problem. Or in other words, a problem with one function means doing without all three while the unit it in for repair. Also, all I have read to date indicates that the parts are office grade rather the photo grade. I sure would not want to do without the output I get from my 6 color Canon printer.
Jane