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DSLR production volume down by 24%

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jrkliny said:
Midwest said:
It's easy to demand more more more but not so easy to provide it. It's not like the camera makers are just sitting back, having sent their R&D teams down to the shipping department to box up product.
Click to expand...
Actually I do believe Canon has been sitting on its oversized ar..se. Again we have seen next to nothing from Canon for 5 years. Now Camera-Japan is lamenting the decline in camera sales, especially DSLR sales. If camera technology really has reach a plateau then I am sure sales will continue to decline. There is no reason to replace an old camera model with a new model that is barely different. Nor is a mature product line likely to interest buyers who are looking for new, hot technology. Finally if cameras have move into what the marketers call commodity status, then it is time for some serious pricing competition. If the manufacturers cannot figure out how to make significant product improvements, then they need to work on efficiency and pricing. If not, someone else will figure out how to do that; e.g., the Chinese.
Click to expand...
Here's some Chinese innovation for you. Fake versions of Japanese cameras. That's all they need to figure out how to do... rip off other peoples' products. And right on the bottom of the some of them it says 'Made in Japan', just like it does on the counterfeit camera box.

Counterfeit Nikon D7100:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...ith_5_Lens_Kit_18_55mm_70_300mm_50mm_8GB.html

Counterfeit Sony Alpha A900:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...ra_no_A850_A800_A99_A77_A700_A7R_Copy_SD.html

Counterfeit Canon 6D:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...135mm_f_3_5_5_6_IS_USM_Lens_CHECK_IT_OUT.html

Counterfeit Nikon D90:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12..._S_DX18_200mm_ED_Copy_Digital_SLR_Camera.html

Counterfeit Canon 5D Mk III

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...5D_Mark_III_22_3_MP_Clone_Digital_Camera.html

Yeah, let's get Chinese innovation into the camera business! LOL
 
Last edited:
It's their own fault really, many ppl have pointed out the problems with DSLR (and in particular Nikon and Canon).

*Proprietary lenses

*autofocus patents (it means Sigma and Zeiss faill to focus, mirrorless can focus fine with other OEM)

*price (sony full frame mirrorless can be had for $1100, Sony and Nikon cost $1600+)

*weight (I realised a few days ago that a contarex from the 60s is lighter than a Nikon D810)

*lack of support for TIFF or PNG (many smartphones offer this, including iPhone with apps)

*proprietary raw formats (pentarex is one of the few using open RAW DNG format)

*lack of ease of use

*lack of apps and connectivity, smarphones and mirrorless are lightyears ahead

*the connectivity they do have is often slow and outdated, old USB 2.0, slow Wi-Fi, etc

etc

Nikon and Canon are dying because they are stuck in the past.
 
Last edited:
Midwest said:
jrkliny said:
Midwest said:
It's easy to demand more more more but not so easy to provide it. It's not like the camera makers are just sitting back, having sent their R&D teams down to the shipping department to box up product.
Click to expand...
Actually I do believe Canon has been sitting on its oversized ar..se. Again we have seen next to nothing from Canon for 5 years. Now Camera-Japan is lamenting the decline in camera sales, especially DSLR sales. If camera technology really has reach a plateau then I am sure sales will continue to decline. There is no reason to replace an old camera model with a new model that is barely different. Nor is a mature product line likely to interest buyers who are looking for new, hot technology. Finally if cameras have move into what the marketers call commodity status, then it is time for some serious pricing competition. If the manufacturers cannot figure out how to make significant product improvements, then they need to work on efficiency and pricing. If not, someone else will figure out how to do that; e.g., the Chinese.
Click to expand...
Here's some Chinese innovation for you. Fake versions of Japanese cameras. That's all they need to figure out how to do... rip off other peoples' products. And right on the bottom of the camera it says 'Made in Japan', just like it does on the counterfeit camera box.

Counterfeit Nikon D7100:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...ith_5_Lens_Kit_18_55mm_70_300mm_50mm_8GB.html

Counterfeit Sony Alpha A900:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...ra_no_A850_A800_A99_A77_A700_A7R_Copy_SD.html

Counterfeit Canon 6D:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...135mm_f_3_5_5_6_IS_USM_Lens_CHECK_IT_OUT.html

Counterfeit Nikon D90:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12..._S_DX18_200mm_ED_Copy_Digital_SLR_Camera.html

Counterfeit Canon 5D Mk III

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...5D_Mark_III_22_3_MP_Clone_Digital_Camera.html
Click to expand...
Wow!

On the bright side, the 24-105LC (C stands for China) has a macro mode! That is innovation!
 
This is matches what the Japanese did in the first few decades following WWII. First they copied, then they developed new and better products.
 
J A C S said:
Midwest said:
jrkliny said:
Midwest said:
It's easy to demand more more more but not so easy to provide it. It's not like the camera makers are just sitting back, having sent their R&D teams down to the shipping department to box up product.
Click to expand...
Actually I do believe Canon has been sitting on its oversized ar..se. Again we have seen next to nothing from Canon for 5 years. Now Camera-Japan is lamenting the decline in camera sales, especially DSLR sales. If camera technology really has reach a plateau then I am sure sales will continue to decline. There is no reason to replace an old camera model with a new model that is barely different. Nor is a mature product line likely to interest buyers who are looking for new, hot technology. Finally if cameras have move into what the marketers call commodity status, then it is time for some serious pricing competition. If the manufacturers cannot figure out how to make significant product improvements, then they need to work on efficiency and pricing. If not, someone else will figure out how to do that; e.g., the Chinese.
Click to expand...
Here's some Chinese innovation for you. Fake versions of Japanese cameras. That's all they need to figure out how to do... rip off other peoples' products. And right on the bottom of the camera it says 'Made in Japan', just like it does on the counterfeit camera box. Yeah, real innovation - in efficiency and pricing. Steal the design, make with cheap labor. Anyone want one of these?

Counterfeit Nikon D7100:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...ith_5_Lens_Kit_18_55mm_70_300mm_50mm_8GB.html

Counterfeit Sony Alpha A900:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...ra_no_A850_A800_A99_A77_A700_A7R_Copy_SD.html

Counterfeit Canon 6D:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...135mm_f_3_5_5_6_IS_USM_Lens_CHECK_IT_OUT.html

Counterfeit Nikon D90:

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12..._S_DX18_200mm_ED_Copy_Digital_SLR_Camera.html

Counterfeit Canon 5D Mk III

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12...5D_Mark_III_22_3_MP_Clone_Digital_Camera.html
Click to expand...
Wow!

On the bright side, the 24-105LC (C stands for China) has a macro mode! That is innovation!
Click to expand...
China didn't invent or design it. They just make it in a cheap labor factory. Wouldn't surprise me if they are making a second line of them "unofficially" in another factory. Or maybe the first one.
 
Last edited:
jrkliny said:
This is matches what the Japanese did in the first few decades following WWII. First they copied, then they developed new and better products.
Click to expand...
"Copied" in what way? Shamelessly produced counterfeit products?
 
J A C S said:
jrkliny said:
This is matches what the Japanese did in the first few decades following WWII. First they copied, then they developed new and better products.
Click to expand...
"Copied" in what way? Shamelessly produced counterfeit products?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it was that crazy. But they didn't invent small FWD cars, for example. And you look at old Celicas, they were clear ripoffs of 1st gen Mustangs. A lot of Japanese sedans in the 60s-70s were styled to look like American sedans as well.
 
jrkliny said:
This is matches what the Japanese did in the first few decades following WWII. First they copied, then they developed new and better products.
Click to expand...
Are you serious?

Within three years after WW2 ended, Nikon was already making some of the best rangefinder cameras in the world and they were not ripoff clones. With all due respect your comment is ridiculous. I started collecting cameras many years ago and I have some idea what I am talking about.

China has been copying for ages. Japan used others' products for inspiration but never cloned them and passed them off as Leicas or Zeiss or whatever. The earliest high quality rangefinders from Nikon were made while Japan was still occupied by foreign forces in a war-destroyed country.

If you are waiting for China to become that kind of innovator with quality to match, don't hold your breath. Why should they change their formula? Steal, clone, make it cheap in an environmental Hell with cheap labor, and turn a guaranteed profit.

PS Hopefully you aren't using one of their cheap clones. I doubt they are remotely as good as the originals.
 
Last edited:
J A C S said:
jrkliny said:
This is matches what the Japanese did in the first few decades following WWII. First they copied, then they developed new and better products.
Click to expand...
"Copied" in what way? Shamelessly produced counterfeit products?
Click to expand...
Japan DID look very closely at the shutter of the Contax rangefinder and the rangefinder of the Leica, and they did imitate the basic designs - but oddly, the Nikon version of the Contax shutter was far more reliable. They sure didn't take one apart, duplicate all the pieces, and sell it as their own (or as a fake of the real brand).

When I started collecting cameras in the middle 1970's, Nikon and other Japanese rangefinder cameras were already in high demand with companies taking out full-page ads in Shutterbug Ads advertising to buy anything from a single camera on up to a large collection. I wish I could have back the model S and the wide angle and tele lenses I sold to buy my first computer.

Japan's rangefinder cameras - especially from Nikon - have been prized from their very introduction. There was no period of 'decades' where they 'copied'.
 
Last edited:
sportyaccordy said:
J A C S said:
jrkliny said:
This is matches what the Japanese did in the first few decades following WWII. First they copied, then they developed new and better products.
Click to expand...
"Copied" in what way? Shamelessly produced counterfeit products?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it was that crazy. But they didn't invent small FWD cars, for example. And you look at old Celicas, they were clear ripoffs of 1st gen Mustangs. A lot of Japanese sedans in the 60s-70s were styled to look like American sedans as well.
Click to expand...
It's true Japan was not the originator of a lot of things, but they took the ideas and made them better. Much, much better. The Celicas may have been styled to remind one of the Mustang but nobody ever tried to say it was the same car, or even really the same KIND of car.

The Mustang is probably worth more now - Japan's products do sometimes lack 'soul'. But that's not true of their old cameras.
 
zackiedawg said:
If some people here who spend their time looking up stats, posting charts, building straw men, attacking other brand cameras, worrying about the type of camera, whether a mirror is needed or not, whether EVFs or OVFs are superior, whether shooting JPG or RAW is the only way to shoot, arguing or creating arguments about different brands, verbally defending their own brand, trolling, commenting on reviews, trying to steer people to their opinion, and spending countless hours a day on these forums in faux debate, were to divert even 50% of that time into taking and sharing photographs instead, the photography industry would be in much better shape and maybe more brands could continue to be successful and stick around. More people could see how good all of these cameras are, more people might want to buy new cameras and lenses
Click to expand...
Or, more likely, they'd realize that the camera they have is already excellent and worth using more than worrying about replacing. Just a thought.
zackiedawg said:
, and more cameras would be sold. Maybe more people might see how having more than 1 camera and one brand to choose from, because we spent so much time trying to kill off brands we don't like or didn't buy ourselves, would actually be a good thing.
Click to expand...
It always irks me when I see anyone talk about 'is this the (brand or camera type) killer?' This is a device and a marketplace of options. "Killing' seems like an idiotic thing to worry about. It's not a war, it's a hobby.
zackiedawg said:
Of course, that's assuming that most of those folks aren't actually immature friendless pasty-white teenagers who never leave their rooms or see sunlight, stay glued to little glowing computer screens and phones, and live a virtual supervillian role on various forums goading people into arguments over brands and cameras that they have never even owned or touched in their life. ;)
Click to expand...
Or the ones who have spent way more time arguing how good their camera is, than using it.
 
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No I don't think Japan made counterfeit cameras. If they borrowed technology for camera engineering that is not something I am familiar with. Japan did make a lot of cheap junk that imitated existing toys, household appliances, tools, and a whole host of other products. That went on for quite a few years and then Japan started making quality products including cameras and cars. Perhaps China will follow some of the same trends and a few years from now they will be making more cutting edge products including electronics. In any case I think camera-Japan is way overdue for some competition.

--
Jim, aka camperjim
http://www.specialplacesphoto.com
 
Last edited:
Aur said:
It's their own fault really, many ppl have pointed out the problems with DSLR (and in particular Nikon and Canon).

*Proprietary lenses

*autofocus patents (it means Sigma and Zeiss faill to focus, mirrorless can focus fine with other OEM)

*price (sony full frame mirrorless can be had for $1100, Sony and Nikon cost $1600+)
Click to expand...
You are comparing discontinued 35mm prices for sony (a7) to current model Canon and nikon. Current model sony (a72) is same price as Canon and nikon Current models.
Aur said:
*weight (I realised a few days ago that a contarex from the 60s is lighter than a Nikon D810)

*lack of support for TIFF or PNG (many smartphones offer this, including iPhone with apps)

*proprietary raw formats (pentarex is one of the few using open RAW DNG format)

*lack of ease of use

*lack of apps and connectivity, smarphones and mirrorless are lightyears ahead

*the connectivity they do have is often slow and outdated, old USB 2.0, slow Wi-Fi, etc

etc

Nikon and Canon are dying because they are stuck in the past.
Click to expand...
 
That has to be illegal!!!
 
RedFox88 said:
Aur said:
It's their own fault really, many ppl have pointed out the problems with DSLR (and in particular Nikon and Canon).

*Proprietary lenses

*autofocus patents (it means Sigma and Zeiss faill to focus, mirrorless can focus fine with other OEM)

*price (sony full frame mirrorless can be had for $1100, Sony and Nikon cost $1600+)
Click to expand...
You are comparing discontinued 35mm prices for sony (a7) to current model Canon and nikon. Current model sony (a72) is same price as Canon and nikon Current models.
Click to expand...
The A7 is no more discontinued than the 6D or D610 are. A7ii is (supposedly) at the higher tier of A7r and A7s, and A7 is the entry level. You can see the Sony marketing spiel of what cameras are leading their strategy - A7 is still one of them.
 
Most people would rather pay the extra few hundred to get the FF DSLR, bc they get a complete system, lenses, flash, AF, the works. The A7 would have to get real low to change that, and some would not change brands even if an A7 were free.

How do I know this? BC more people buy C/N. As for the sales numbers dropping, to me that means there are more satisfied customers in DSLR land. Would you say that since phones sell more units per capita that says anything about it's relation to the A7? Me neither.
 
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