"Tough E-Mount"

MisterHairy · Mar 5, 2015

Hi All

I recently purchased a "Tough E-Mount" from Fotodiox in the US as I have always been disappointed by the amount of slop between the lens and camera body with my A7r. I could easily see a half mm of gap opening up with a heavy lens like the 24-70 on there and this has caused me to have concerns about potential long term alignment issues arising from using these heavier lenses (I know, the 24-70 is not even that heavy).

So, the new mount took all of five minutes to fit and the interface between lens and camera is now as solid as a rock; easily as good as my heavy Nikon SLRs. Alignment with the sensor seems good and if anything, I feel that a lot of what I had decided was lens misalignment/decentering has been mitigated by fitting the new mount. Image quality actually has benefitted from the change!!

So, what a shame it is that Sony chose to use a plastic ring as the tensioner ring in the mount, even on the A7r, and how silly it is that a £25 replacement part can so dramatically improve the feel and performance of what really is a top notch camera when set up correctly.

Has anyone else taken the plunge and modified their camera(s) in this way, and if so, was your experience as positive as mine?

By the way, I am in the UK and have absolutely no affiliation with the manufacturer of the mount at all. I hope that a positive report about a spare part such as this is OK to post.

ProfHankD · Mar 5, 2015

MisterHairy said:
I recently purchased a "Tough E-Mount" from Fotodiox in the US as I have always been disappointed by the amount of slop between the lens and camera body with my A7r.

I've never been bothered by "slop" in the mounts of my NEX-5, NEX-7, or A7;the bodies seem to sit quite well fixed to the larger of my 140+ lenses. However, I am bothered by the too-tight fit of many adapters (especially Fotgas) on my A7II. Any such issue with the tough mount replacement?

MisterHairy · Mar 5, 2015

No, although I only use one adapter, a Metabones Nikon G to FE one (which I have very accurately measured and shaved to the correct width all around) and that mounts very nicely. Maybe a little better now than before as it had scored an arc on my original A7r mount, mostly because the original mount is so soft.

Stflbn · Mar 5, 2015

I think people look for to many reasons to have problems with their gear when they're not actually encountering problems.

Which presents a marketing and monetary opportunity for things like the "Tough E Mount"

MisterHairy · Mar 5, 2015

Stflbn said:
I think people look for to many reasons to have problems with their gear when they're not actually encountering problems.

Which presents a marketing and monetary opportunity for things like the "Tough E Mount"

Like I said, I was seeing top/bottom image degradation which I had put down to lens alignment/decentering. The new mount has largely, if not completely, fixed this.

I would say that this falls into the "actually encountering problems" category. Maybe we're just talking about high standards versus low standards.

Thanks for your insightful commentary though.

zuikokiuz · Mar 5, 2015

if 25pound can make you such a happy man, go for it, be it the real effect or just psychological.

MisterHairy · Mar 5, 2015

zuikokiuz said:
if 25pound can make you such a happy man, go for it, be it the real effect or just psychological.

Why do people struggle to see that a sound, firm interface between lens and camera, particularly a high resolution camera such as the A7r, is a good thing?

Blissful ignorance?

jwinberg1 · Mar 5, 2015

MisterHairy said:
Hi All

I recently purchased a "Tough E-Mount" from Fotodiox in the US as I have always been disappointed by the amount of slop between the lens and camera body with my A7r. I could easily see a half mm of gap opening up with a heavy lens like the 24-70 on there and this has caused me to have concerns about potential long term alignment issues arising from using these heavier lenses (I know, the 24-70 is not even that heavy).

So, the new mount took all of five minutes to fit and the interface between lens and camera is now as solid as a rock; easily as good as my heavy Nikon SLRs. Alignment with the sensor seems good and if anything, I feel that a lot of what I had decided was lens misalignment/decentering has been mitigated by fitting the new mount. Image quality actually has benefitted from the change!!

So, what a shame it is that Sony chose to use a plastic ring as the tensioner ring in the mount, even on the A7r, and how silly it is that a £25 replacement part can so dramatically improve the feel and performance of what really is a top notch camera when set up correctly.

Has anyone else taken the plunge and modified their camera(s) in this way, and if so, was your experience as positive as mine?

By the way, I am in the UK and have absolutely no affiliation with the manufacturer of the mount at all. I hope that a positive report about a spare part such as this is OK to post.

I think that your comment represents a very positive useful, and constructive contribution to this forum, and I thank you! Please do not be put off by those who have not experienced the identical difficulty.

Jack Winberg

MisterHairy · Mar 5, 2015

jwinberg1 said:
MisterHairy said:

Hi All...

Click to expand...

I think that your comment represents a very positive useful, and constructive contribution to this forum, and I thank you! Please do not be put off by those who have not experienced the identical difficulty.

Jack Winberg

Thank you, Jack. Prior responses have certainly been... erm... "interesting".

zuikokiuz · Mar 5, 2015

MisterHairy said:
zuikokiuz said:

if 25pound can make you such a happy man, go for it, be it the real effect or just psychological.

Click to expand...

Why do people struggle to see that a sound, firm interface between lens and camera, particularly a high resolution camera such as the A7r, is a good thing?

Blissful ignorance?

i dont think you or me or fotodix creator can outsmart sony engineers.

nope.

MisterHairy · Mar 5, 2015

zuikokiuz said:
MisterHairy said:

zuikokiuz said:

if 25pound can make you such a happy man, go for it, be it the real effect or just psychological.

Click to expand...

Why do people struggle to see that a sound, firm interface between lens and camera, particularly a high resolution camera such as the A7r, is a good thing?

Blissful ignorance?

Click to expand...

i dont think you or me or fotodix creator can outsmart sony engineers.

nope.

Maybe not you, but I am certain that I can. I am so certain because my role in this improvement was not to reduce costs as far as possible. If Sony can produce an "almost good enough" mount for 0.02 pence versus a few pounds for one as good as the replacement one, then of course, that's the way they will go.

Commercial manufacturing is not just about engineering the best technical solution; it is often about the most profitable solution with performance within certain bounds. Those bounds were pretty wide for the A7r mount. The replacement of the mount has very certainly improved upon the performance of the budget driven original. Whether you could benefit from this upgrade is up to you to decide; maybe you are not so discerning.

zuikokiuz · Mar 5, 2015

MisterHairy said:
zuikokiuz said:

MisterHairy said:

zuikokiuz said:

if 25pound can make you such a happy man, go for it, be it the real effect or just psychological.

Click to expand...

Why do people struggle to see that a sound, firm interface between lens and camera, particularly a high resolution camera such as the A7r, is a good thing?

Blissful ignorance?

Click to expand...

i dont think you or me or fotodix creator can outsmart sony engineers.

nope.

Click to expand...

Maybe not you, but I am certain that I can. I am so certain because my role in this improvement was not to reduce costs as far as possible. If Sony can produce an "almost good enough" mount for 0.02 pence versus a few pounds for one as good as the replacement one, then of course, that's the way they will go.

Commercial manufacturing is not just about engineering the best technical solution; it is often about the most profitable solution with performance within certain bounds. Those bounds were pretty wide for the A7r mount. The replacement of the mount has very certainly improved upon the performance of the budget driven original. Whether you could benefit from this upgrade is up to you to decide; maybe you are not so discerning.

some may choose to tighten the plastic mount if there is any free play, but for you, hey, tough luck, look, did you get this?

The Fotodiox TOUGH E-Mount LT in Signature Edition Brass

--
stop shopping for lenses and start taking photo!
If you have to ask, you likely don't know what focal lengths you are interested in. In my opinion, get the kit lens

Sean_Jayhawk · Mar 5, 2015

MisterHairy said:
Hi All

I recently purchased a "Tough E-Mount" from Fotodiox in the US as I have always been disappointed by the amount of slop between the lens and camera body with my A7r. I could easily see a half mm of gap opening up with a heavy lens like the 24-70 on there and this has caused me to have concerns about potential long term alignment issues arising from using these heavier lenses (I know, the 24-70 is not even that heavy).

I had the old mount and then bought the Rokinon 135/2. It's large and heavy and I could see wobble with it attached to my A7 (and all of my lenses for that matter). Perhaps it wouldn't be a problem, but I ordered the signature edition Tough E-mount gold version. I spent a little more because the gold looks pretty sweet. I am someone who also showers daily to look better. Call me vain, fine. ;-)

All of my lenses screw on very snuggly now. There is no longer any wobble (and the plastic mount was as tight as can be because I tried unscrewing the screws the wrong way at first -- no room to tighten). Like I said, I didn't have any evidence of a problem with any image quality, but it gave me an uneasy feeling to have my lenses wobble and it got worse when I put the big and heavy Rokinon 135/2 on the old plastic mount.

--
My recent favorite shots

viking79 · Mar 5, 2015

You will find that people defend the plastic mount on a camera with a release MSRP of $2300 pretty fervently. The mount was not suitable for a camera of that caliber, unless you only use smaller lenses on it (which is all that was available at launch). The plastic mount is acceptable for most users, and depending on how you use heavy lenses it will be acceptable for them as well, but it is a still a cheap plastic mount on a very expensive camera.

Sony has learned their lesson and even their much cheaper A7II utilizes a metal mount. Sony claims in marketing that the metal was used to support heavier lenses. The only reason people find the plastic mount on the A7R acceptable is that they disguise it and make it appear to be metal by putting a flimsy finishing ring over the top (which serves no purpose other than aesthetic).

You'll see I did similar a while back:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54739891

I stand by Sony's decision to use metal in the A7S and A7II to replace the crappy mount in the A7R. I wish they would do a service campaign for A7R users. As stated, the plastic mount meets the bare minimum, but I would rather it do better than the minimum. It really is no better than those plastic mounts on cameras in the 90s. You don't cost cut your flagship camera in such a way.

Eric

MisterHairy · Mar 5, 2015

zuikokiuz said:
MisterHairy said:

zuikokiuz said:

MisterHairy said:

zuikokiuz said:

if 25pound can make you such a happy man, go for it, be it the real effect or just psychological.

Click to expand...

Why do people struggle to see that a sound, firm interface between lens and camera, particularly a high resolution camera such as the A7r, is a good thing?

Blissful ignorance?

Click to expand...

i dont think you or me or fotodix creator can outsmart sony engineers.

nope.

Click to expand...

Maybe not you, but I am certain that I can. I am so certain because my role in this improvement was not to reduce costs as far as possible. If Sony can produce an "almost good enough" mount for 0.02 pence versus a few pounds for one as good as the replacement one, then of course, that's the way they will go.

Commercial manufacturing is not just about engineering the best technical solution; it is often about the most profitable solution with performance within certain bounds. Those bounds were pretty wide for the A7r mount. The replacement of the mount has very certainly improved upon the performance of the budget driven original. Whether you could benefit from this upgrade is up to you to decide; maybe you are not so discerning.

Click to expand...

some may choose to tighten the plastic mount if there is any free play, but for you, hey, tough luck, look, did you get this?

The Fotodiox TOUGH E-Mount LT in Signature Edition Brass

There is no scope for tightening the plastic ring to improve the mount interface so that was never an option.

I made the change for practical reasons, so the colour was not important. I just went for the steel one.

davidjt · Mar 5, 2015

I changed mine on A7R when I got the 16-35mm. The amount of play on the mount was measurable and getting steadily worse - up to 1mm I would say. I went to Sony service in UK and they would only replace it if I sent the camera to them and it might be 4weeks + in the middle of peak season for me - no way. First tough mount was poor and jammed my adapters (mirex & Novoflex) on the camera, nightmare that had me wondering whether I would have to destroy the camera to get it off. Luckily not. A friend had one that was perfect so I persevered. Replacement is perfect and I have no slop or play and the adapters fit perfectly. The difference is striking in the solid feel of the camera. 100% improvement, no question of it.

I was getting to the point where there was enough play to worry me that I was getting some unwanted tilt and the lens cannot have been in the same plane as the sensor. Could I see it - pass and certainly not at F8/F11 where I typically shoot. With the 35mm and 55mm sony lenses, not heavy enough so no. I think the 16-35mm was heavy enough to tilt of its own accord. Look at the heavy lenses in the roadmap as well as those already out.

Sorry oh hairy one...

For me, its an issue that should have been fixed by Sony (and has been in the A7R II which tells you it IS a design issue) but they only fix things by bringing out new models..... Want to bet on what mount the A7R II or A9 has ? Same as A7/R or metal ?

MisterHairy · Mar 5, 2015

Indeed. Strange choices from both parties (Sony and some of their users).

Thanks for your well reasoned comments.

nandbytes · Mar 5, 2015

i prefer to keep my warranty, instead of fixing things that aren't broken. I have owned A7 for nearly a year now and have put large a-mount lenses on it with no issues thus far nor have heard any reports of others having issues.

Shirozina · Mar 5, 2015

zuikokiuz said:
MisterHairy said:

zuikokiuz said:

MisterHairy said:

zuikokiuz said:

if 25pound can make you such a happy man, go for it, be it the real effect or just psychological.

Click to expand...

Why do people struggle to see that a sound, firm interface between lens and camera, particularly a high resolution camera such as the A7r, is a good thing?

Blissful ignorance?

Click to expand...

i dont think you or me or fotodix creator can outsmart sony engineers.

nope.

Click to expand...

Maybe not you, but I am certain that I can. I am so certain because my role in this improvement was not to reduce costs as far as possible. If Sony can produce an "almost good enough" mount for 0.02 pence versus a few pounds for one as good as the replacement one, then of course, that's the way they will go.

Commercial manufacturing is not just about engineering the best technical solution; it is often about the most profitable solution with performance within certain bounds. Those bounds were pretty wide for the A7r mount. The replacement of the mount has very certainly improved upon the performance of the budget driven original. Whether you could benefit from this upgrade is up to you to decide; maybe you are not so discerning.

Click to expand...

some may choose to tighten the plastic mount if there is any free play, but for you, hey, tough luck, look, did you get this?

The Fotodiox TOUGH E-Mount LT in Signature Edition Brass

--
stop shopping for lenses and start taking photo!
If you have to ask, you likely don't know what focal lengths you are interested in. In my opinion, get the kit lens

It's not the plastic ring that's the issue - it's the metal mount which is a thin soft aluminium alloy that warps when loaded.

Shirozina · Mar 5, 2015

zuikokiuz said:
MisterHairy said:

zuikokiuz said:

if 25pound can make you such a happy man, go for it, be it the real effect or just psychological.

Click to expand...

Why do people struggle to see that a sound, firm interface between lens and camera, particularly a high resolution camera such as the A7r, is a good thing?

Blissful ignorance?

Click to expand...

i dont think you or me or fotodix creator can outsmart sony engineers.

nope.

"Tough E-Mount"

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