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Does my D810 still have LE white dots?

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graphene

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I just received new D810 from B&H, firmware C1.01. I checked Nikon website, and it says it's unaffected. However, when I take long exposure at ISO 64, I saw a lot of white/green/red/blue dots in 100% view. The position of those dots are fixed, no matter what I shoot or lens capped. If I turn on LENR, then most of them are gone.

I also updated firmware to C1.02 and still have same problem. I tried "sensor clean" in the setup menu, doesn't help.

I want to ask:

1. Is this the "thermal noise issue" D810 had? If not, is this normal?

2. For those who recently purchased D810, could you please do a quick test to check if yours has similar problem?



Thanks.





100% crop, +5 exposure/+50 clarity. [ISO:64, 30s, Lens cap on, View finder covered, LENR off, High ISO NR off]
100% crop, +5 exposure/+50 clarity. [ISO:64, 30s, Lens cap on, View finder covered, LENR off, High ISO NR off]
 
Solution
B
Based on the raw files you sent to me.

Here is a histogram generated from your evenly illuminated image:

cd43901e3ea34a699d321905cc3677ba.jpg.png

Z-score is the number of standard deviations that a pixel value differs from it's neighbors.
For a sensor with so many pixels Z-score should fall between -6 and 6. The one pixel at -8.5 is a bit cool but would probably not be considered a problem.

Dark frame analysis revealed this:

f5b1990a3f0f42c281882ccc32696a20.jpg.png

This shows two very "hot" pixels right next to each other.
Remember, the BlackLevel for this camera is 600; so really we have two pixels with dark values of about 300 in a sea of pixels that are essentially zero.

If these pixels show in the shadow area of a normal photograph then you ought to have Nikon take care of the...
OK, after I read a lot of old threads and did more test, it seems the bright dots I see are stuck pixels, which show up at long exposure (see attached at 1:1 view), not thermal noise. Very similar to:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3796867?page=1

I tried the double sensor clean method, doesn't help.

I still have a question:

Someone mentioned those stuck pixels should be taken away by lightroom during raw importing, but I still see these dots in lightroom. Does anybody know why? Too many dots or not bright enough? Thanks.





stuck pixels: lightroom +3 exposure, +50 clarity, 100% crop.
stuck pixels: lightroom +3 exposure, +50 clarity, 100% crop.
 
I'm pretty sure you can send this to Nikon and have them pixel-map it for you under warranty, if it really bothers you. They can probably do something. But I just noticed this is at "30 seconds" (at first I thought it was 1/30), so you have to be ready for them to say "its totally within spec."

At 15+ seconds its pretty common for these hot pixels to pop up as the sensor gets... well.. hot! :-)

What does it look like at 5 seconds or 10 seconds? Or 1 second?

(Keep in mind, that 30 seconds is a very long time for any sensor.)

--
Sincerely,
GlobalGuy
 
Last edited:
GlobalGuyUSA said:
I'm pretty sure you can send this to Nikon and have them pixel-map it for you under warranty, if it really bothers you. They can probably do something. But I just noticed this is at "30 seconds" (at first I thought it was 1/30), so you have to be ready for them to say "its totally within spec."

At 15+ seconds its pretty common for these hot pixels to pop up as the sensor gets... well.. hot! :-)

What does it look like at 5 seconds or 10 seconds? Or 1 second?

(Keep in mind, that 30 seconds is a very long time for any sensor.)
Click to expand...
 
graphene said:
GlobalGuyUSA said:
I'm pretty sure you can send this to Nikon and have them pixel-map it for you under warranty, if it really bothers you. They can probably do something. But I just noticed this is at "30 seconds" (at first I thought it was 1/30), so you have to be ready for them to say "its totally within spec."

At 15+ seconds its pretty common for these hot pixels to pop up as the sensor gets... well.. hot! :-)

What does it look like at 5 seconds or 10 seconds? Or 1 second?

(Keep in mind, that 30 seconds is a very long time for any sensor.)

--
Sincerely,
GlobalGuy
Click to expand...
Hi GlobalGuy, thanks for your reply. I think this noise is above average but still acceptable.

30s night shoot (with ~3000 ISO) is probably the longest I will use. I checked 5s, with +3 exp in lightroom, very hard to see those bright spots. With +4~+5 exp, it starts to show some green noise.

For 10s and 15s, with +4 exposure in lightroom, it starts to show some faint bright spots.
Click to expand...
There is an option in your camera to map out those spots

Under the Set Up Menu navigate to the Image Dust Off ref photo. It is fairy involved so open up your Menu and read up on it.
 
mais51 said:
graphene said:
GlobalGuyUSA said:
I'm pretty sure you can send this to Nikon and have them pixel-map it for you under warranty, if it really bothers you. They can probably do something. But I just noticed this is at "30 seconds" (at first I thought it was 1/30), so you have to be ready for them to say "its totally within spec."

At 15+ seconds its pretty common for these hot pixels to pop up as the sensor gets... well.. hot! :-)

What does it look like at 5 seconds or 10 seconds? Or 1 second?

(Keep in mind, that 30 seconds is a very long time for any sensor.)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
GlobalGuyUSA said:
mais51 said:
graphene said:
GlobalGuyUSA said:
I'm pretty sure you can send this to Nikon and have them pixel-map it for you under warranty, if it really bothers you. They can probably do something. But I just noticed this is at "30 seconds" (at first I thought it was 1/30), so you have to be ready for them to say "its totally within spec."

At 15+ seconds its pretty common for these hot pixels to pop up as the sensor gets... well.. hot! :-)

What does it look like at 5 seconds or 10 seconds? Or 1 second?

(Keep in mind, that 30 seconds is a very long time for any sensor.)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Based on the raw files you sent to me.

Here is a histogram generated from your evenly illuminated image:

cd43901e3ea34a699d321905cc3677ba.jpg.png

Z-score is the number of standard deviations that a pixel value differs from it's neighbors.
For a sensor with so many pixels Z-score should fall between -6 and 6. The one pixel at -8.5 is a bit cool but would probably not be considered a problem.

Dark frame analysis revealed this:

f5b1990a3f0f42c281882ccc32696a20.jpg.png

This shows two very "hot" pixels right next to each other.
Remember, the BlackLevel for this camera is 600; so really we have two pixels with dark values of about 300 in a sea of pixels that are essentially zero.

If these pixels show in the shadow area of a normal photograph then you ought to have Nikon take care of the issue.

--
Bill (visit me at http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/ )
 
Last edited:
Solution
bclaff said:
This shows two very "hot" pixels right next to each other.
Remember, the BlackLevel for this camera is 600; so really we have two pixels with dark values of about 300 in a sea of pixels that are essentially zero.

If these pixels show in the shadow area of a normal photograph then you ought to have Nikon take care of the issue.

--
Bill (visit me at http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/ )
Click to expand...
Thank you very much, Bill, for the detailed analysis.

I will check these two "hot" pixels in my normal shots. If I am right, they are located around the center of a picture, slightly on the lower left side, right?
 
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