Photos from iPhone 6

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

chipmaster said:
As we carry our iPhone everywhere, whenever there is a photographic moment the camera is there to capture it.

Well maybe, if it fits the phones capability, which we have established a few hundred times this week is a very thin sliver of what's possible. Since it's only a 30mm lens, a subject of a particular size must be within a very narrow margin of distance away, you can shoot moving subjects but not in too low of light, you can't really use DOF artistically, ect. Oh, and if the sun's glare is particularly strong, well I suppose you can use a hood.

chipmaster said:
With hundreds of millions of people everywhere and the device always there will yield many wonderful images which can be instantly shared too!

Quantity says nothing about quality. We are discussing the ability of the gear to support a user who wants quality.

chipmaster said:
But for sports, PJ, amazing wildlife, weddings etc. etc. the ILC will not be displaced. What will happen is progress will slow, growth will slow and all of us will find them "good enough" and use the iPhone as it is also "good enough" for the rest.

That's not the way my brain works. I don't go to work and when my boss tells me im up for a raise I tell him "no thanks, I make 70 grand a year and that's good enough". I always want the best that I can afford. One look at photos that were taken with gear ten years ago, on the 4k screen I have now, tells me that future proofing for tomorrow's standards is smart.

And yes our standards do morph. Just watch an action flick from the 70s or 80s and tell me you are convinced by the special affects. Back then it was cutting edge, believable, but since then we have seen better. Once you move forward you brain won't let you go back.

chipmaster said:
--
"Today's Pictures Are Tomorrow's Memories"

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

muffhugga said:
March Of The Tripods said:

This makes no sense though. Everybody has a phone already. It's not like if I said my 70D was so so so much better than your phone, then in order for you to match my gear you would have to spend a lot more money on a body and lenses, or, live with having inferior gear. You claim your phone is better but we all already have those. I have a Note 4 and 3 Note 3s. It's impossible to troll threaten somebody who already has your gear.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

Click to expand...

They just sound so defensive when they resort to calling iPhones "toy cameras." Especially because most of them can't produce photographs as high in quality with their "real cameras."

Mobile photography is just getting really good and people will just have to deal it surpassing a lot on here

So im confused. Are you really comparing the gear? BC it sounds to me like you are comparing the skill of the two different groups of users. It sounds like you are saying people who use phones are producing better photos than those with cameras. So if it sounds like they are being defensive, perhaps it's bc you are making judgments on them personally.

Now lets say you are right, that phone users are more skilled. Imagine what they could do with a real camera?? Cameras offer more tools, they have less limits. This is a reality. If you think phone users are more skilled than camera users, im not going to argue, but you need to be brave and come out and say what you really mean to say. It seems like you are trying to sneak in a personal insult on the back of gear talk.

And on top of all this, we still have the fact that most people own phones, so how can we say phone users are more skilled than camera users? Im more skilled than myself?

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

muffhugga · Mar 4, 2015

March Of The Tripods said:
muffhugga said:

March Of The Tripods said:

This makes no sense though. Everybody has a phone already. It's not like if I said my 70D was so so so much better than your phone, then in order for you to match my gear you would have to spend a lot more money on a body and lenses, or, live with having inferior gear. You claim your phone is better but we all already have those. I have a Note 4 and 3 Note 3s. It's impossible to troll threaten somebody who already has your gear.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

More Keepers · Mar 4, 2015

muffhugga said:
March Of The Tripods said:

jonrobertp said:

More Keepers said:

Paul Janders said:

Apple updated their web site Sunday with a gallery of photos taken with the iPhone 6. Amazing what can be done with a smart phone camera. It's worth spending some time to take a look at these:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/world-gallery/

Click to expand...

Yet another iphone troller! iphones belong in the connect toy forum. Real camera topics belong here.

Click to expand...

lol...sounds like someone feeling threatened.

Click to expand...

This makes no sense though. Everybody has a phone already. It's not like if I said my 70D was so so so much better than your phone, then in order for you to match my gear you would have to spend a lot more money on a body and lenses, or, live with having inferior gear. You claim your phone is better but we all already have those. I have a Note 4 and 3 Note 3s. It's impossible to troll threaten somebody who already has your gear.

Click to expand...

muffhugga · Mar 4, 2015

It's really fascinating how you keep bringing up this stuff about trolling but you're the one calling them "toy cameras." What makes them toy cameras if they can get the job done? I'd love to see your pictures if you think these cameras are incapable of getting good results.

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

muffhugga said:
I was never comparing gear. I even mentioned in a reply to someone else that OP wasn't comparing iPhones to anything, just showing how capable they are. Now what's wrong with that?

Hmm, not sure you can have a thread about phones without comparing the gear, but hey ill take your word. Since it's not an established fact which is better, phones or large sensor cameras, I won't make any assumptions there.... :-|

muffhugga said:
I didn't mean that mobile photographers are more skilled. Just that some of these "real photographers" get defensive about their investments and try to disregard the lowly mobile photographer. Imagine for a second that these "phone users" are actual full fledged photographers and not kids playing with toy cameras.

Well yea there are some guys driving beat up Demo Derby cars than could outrace me on a street track even if my car has twice the HP. That's not the point, if you have two people of equal skill, one with a D810 and one with an iPhone, I can almost guarantee that the DSLR will produce better photos. Why try to stack the deck in favor of the phones unless you truly believe that there are more gifted photographers using phones than there are using cameras?

And if you do believe this, what are you smoking?

muffhugga said:
No other camera offers the convenience that the one attached to their phone can, if it can get the job that they need done.

It's only convenient if you need to upload it immediately, and only if it's a very particular type of subject. To me trying to shoot my kids playing sports with my phone is anything but convenient no matter how fast my upload speed is.

crashpc · Mar 4, 2015

I can get the job done by eating only bread on my breakfast and lunch. But I rather eat some vegetables, meat, pasta and cheese....

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

muffhugga said:
It's really fascinating how you keep bringing up this stuff about trolling but you're the one calling them "toy cameras." What makes them toy cameras if they can get the job done? I'd love to see your pictures if you think these cameras are incapable of getting good results.

I get it, when people call them toy cameras it makes it seem like they are calling phone users something negative too. Right? It's a put down to phone users. Ok I get that, but that would mean you are getting defensive, not them. But hey, maybe rightfully so, I won't gripe about it.

But lets be honest, you are trying to, for the honor of your chosen format (phones), win non official photo competitions with ILC users on DPR, but you can only even enter a contest like that if it falls within your narrow available genre. What if somebody asks you to show a BIF, or a high quality portrait with backlighting? Do you have ability to control off camera flash? Are you saying that isn't important in photography?

Sure for phones you may be happy with your little sliver of what you can shoot but many of us are not. I personally may not need the AF of my DSLR 50% of the time, but im sure glad it's there the other 50. I think phone users are missing this point, they think everybody should be limited like they are for some ego contest. Im not trying to be mean but if you want a comparison fine. Show me your phone version of this.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

muffhugga · Mar 4, 2015

March Of The Tripods said:
muffhugga said:

I was never comparing gear. I even mentioned in a reply to someone else that OP wasn't comparing iPhones to anything, just showing how capable they are. Now what's wrong with that?

Click to expand...

Hmm, not sure you can have a thread about phones without comparing the gear, but hey ill take your word. Since it's not an established fact which is better, phones or large sensor cameras, I won't make any assumptions there.... :-|

March Of The Tripods said:

I didn't mean that mobile photographers are more skilled. Just that some of these "real photographers" get defensive about their investments and try to disregard the lowly mobile photographer. Imagine for a second that these "phone users" are actual full fledged photographers and not kids playing with toy cameras.

Click to expand...

Well yea there are some guys driving beat up Demo Derby cars than could outrace me on a street track even if my car has twice the HP. That's not the point, if you have two people of equal skill, one with a D810 and one with an iPhone, I can almost guarantee that the DSLR will produce better photos. Why try to stack the deck in favor of the phones unless you truly believe that there are more gifted photographers using phones than there are using cameras?

And if you do believe this, what are you smoking?

March Of The Tripods said:

No other camera offers the convenience that the one attached to their phone can, if it can get the job that they need done.

Click to expand...

It's only convenient if you need to upload it immediately, and only if it's a very particular type of subject. To me trying to shoot my kids playing sports with my phone is anything but convenient no matter how fast my upload speed is.

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

muffhugga said:
I find it hilarious how little you are comprehending. You don't think it's possible to say "Hey guys, look at these great pics taken on a phone" ? Because that's exactly what OP did. Where on earth do you see him making a comparison?

Of course I don't believe phones produce better images, why would you even bring that up? And it is WAY more convenient, are you kidding me? The phone is the camera dude… Again, if it gets the job that they need done, why give them any heat? Wether they can't afford an ILC or they choose the convenience of not having to carry a camera around, why disregard their work and call their tools "toy cameras"?

I think what you are seeing is no different than religious arguments, or that of two people who don't share eating and exercise habbits. It's a huge difference in philosophy here. One group wants convenience and simplicity, the other values ability and complexity. Now that's fine, no issues there, to each their own.

The problem arrises when those who prefer the simple and easy start making claims that their gear is just as capable. We all know that's not true. Now you may claim this thread was not made for that, but I have been a reader of dozens of such threads lately, which attract other phone warriors who make the same claims.

So if you are not saying that, feel free to do as you plz, but you won't convince me there isn't a horde of phone trolls hoping to slip in some passive aggressive insults at every turn.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

muffhugga · Mar 4, 2015

March Of The Tripods said:
muffhugga said:

It's really fascinating how you keep bringing up this stuff about trolling but you're the one calling them "toy cameras." What makes them toy cameras if they can get the job done? I'd love to see your pictures if you think these cameras are incapable of getting good results.

Click to expand...

I get it, when people call them toy cameras it makes it seem like they are calling phone users something negative too. Right? It's a put down to phone users. Ok I get that, but that would mean you are getting defensive, not them. But hey, maybe rightfully so, I won't gripe about it.

But lets be honest, you are trying to, for the honor of your chosen format (phones), win non official photo competitions with ILC users on DPR, but you can only even enter a contest like that if it falls within your narrow available genre. What if somebody asks you to show a BIF, or a high quality portrait with backlighting? Do you have ability to control off camera flash? Are you saying that isn't important in photography?

Sure for phones you may be happy with your little sliver of what you can shoot but many of us are not. I personally may not need the AF of my DSLR 50% of the time, but im sure glad it's there the other 50. I think phone users are missing this point, they think everybody should be limited like they are for some ego contest. Im not trying to be mean but if you want a comparison fine. Show me your phone version of this.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

Cool pic, bro. Let me simplify it so that you can understand. If you're good enough to call mobile photographers children playing with toy cameras and can produce better images than the ones on that link then show me your work. I'd love to see it. Of course a phone will have its limitations, I still don't see why you're trying to compare the two after I've told you this like 5 times… My question is how these limitations makes a phone a toy? Personally, I think they're more than a capable tool.

muffhugga · Mar 4, 2015

March Of The Tripods said:
muffhugga said:

I find it hilarious how little you are comprehending. You don't think it's possible to say "Hey guys, look at these great pics taken on a phone" ? Because that's exactly what OP did. Where on earth do you see him making a comparison?

Of course I don't believe phones produce better images, why would you even bring that up? And it is WAY more convenient, are you kidding me? The phone is the camera dude… Again, if it gets the job that they need done, why give them any heat? Wether they can't afford an ILC or they choose the convenience of not having to carry a camera around, why disregard their work and call their tools "toy cameras"?

Click to expand...

I think what you are seeing is no different than religious arguments, or that of two people who don't share eating and exercise habbits. It's a huge difference in philosophy here. One group wants convenience and simplicity, the other values ability and complexity. Now that's fine, no issues there, to each their own.

The problem arrises when those who prefer the simple and easy start making claims that their gear is just as capable. We all know that's not true. Now you may claim this thread was not made for that, but I have been a reader of dozens of such threads lately, which attract other phone warriors who make the same claims.

So if you are not saying that, feel free to do as you plz, but you won't convince me there isn't a horde of phone trolls hoping to slip in some passive aggressive insults at every turn.

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

muffhugga said:
March Of The Tripods said:

muffhugga said:

Click to expand...

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

Click to expand...

Cool pic, bro. Let me simplify it so that you can understand. If you're good enough to call mobile photographers children playing with toy cameras and can produce better images than the one on that link then show me your work. I'd love to see it. Of course a phone will have its limitations, I still don't see why you're trying to compare the two after I've told you this like 5 times… My question is how these limitations makes a phone a toy? Personally, I think they're more than a capable tool.

Well I guess that depends on your definition of what a toy is. So, what is a toy? To most people, a toy is something that children play with. If we take a less literal definition, it is really just something that is far less capable, less durable, something a person would use mainly for fun rather than for income.

Now are there people making money off phone shots? Sure, but there are people making money off playing video games, professionally. The point is when you compare a phone with all it's capability with a full fledge ILC, the phone does look a little toy'ish. I don't mean it as a putdown to people bc those people have the same cameras available as I do.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

muffhugga · Mar 4, 2015

March Of The Tripods said:
muffhugga said:

March Of The Tripods said:

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

Click to expand...

Cool pic, bro. Let me simplify it so that you can understand. If you're good enough to call mobile photographers children playing with toy cameras and can produce better images than the one on that link then show me your work. I'd love to see it. Of course a phone will have its limitations, I still don't see why you're trying to compare the two after I've told you this like 5 times… My question is how these limitations makes a phone a toy? Personally, I think they're more than a capable tool.

Click to expand...

Well I guess that depends on your definition of what a toy is. So, what is a toy? To most people, a toy is something that children play with. If we take a less literal definition, it is really just something that is far less capable, less durable, something a person would use mainly for fun rather than for income.

Now are there people making money off phone shots? Sure, but there are people making money off playing video games, professionally. The point is when you compare a phone with all it's capability with a full fledge ILC, the phone does look a little toy'ish. I don't mean it as a putdown to people bc those people have the same cameras available as I do.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

Right… So you read dozens of threads like these with all the passive aggressive phone trolls BUT you don't mean to call them "toy cameras" as a putdown. Get real. I just feel like you need a better insult for the all the phone warriors because I'd take any photo on that site over yours. And that's from an ILC owner

HatWearingFool · Mar 4, 2015

March Of The Tripods said:
muffhugga said:

It's really fascinating how you keep bringing up this stuff about trolling but you're the one calling them "toy cameras." What makes them toy cameras if they can get the job done? I'd love to see your pictures if you think these cameras are incapable of getting good results.

Click to expand...

I get it, when people call them toy cameras it makes it seem like they are calling phone users something negative too. Right? It's a put down to phone users. Ok I get that, but that would mean you are getting defensive, not them. But hey, maybe rightfully so, I won't gripe about it.

But lets be honest, you are trying to, for the honor of your chosen format (phones), win non official photo competitions with ILC users on DPR, but you can only even enter a contest like that if it falls within your narrow available genre. What if somebody asks you to show a BIF, or a high quality portrait with backlighting? Do you have ability to control off camera flash? Are you saying that isn't important in photography?

Yes, you can control off camera flash in two ways. One you can fire off-camera flashes by using the iPhone flash like you would with any optical slave. The second method is that there are apps which reverse this process; they take a picture whenever a flash is fired.

As for BIF... I don't see why not. After all Dan Chung covered the 2012 olympics for the guardian with an iPhone. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/jul/27/london-olympics-2012-smartphone That was 3 years ago. The iPhone6 is a huge improvement over the 4 and original 5 he was using.

There are quite a few adapters that allow phones to be used with binoculars and scopes. I think it's called dig-scoping. I'm guessing at least some of these must used for capturing photos of birds.

March Of The Tripods said:
Sure for phones you may be happy with your little sliver of what you can shoot but many of us are not. I personally may not need the AF of my DSLR 50% of the time, but im sure glad it's there the other 50. I think phone users are missing this point, they think everybody should be limited like they are for some ego contest. Im not trying to be mean but if you want a comparison fine. Show me your phone version of this.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

A very quick google search gave me this digiscoped photo from an iPhone which seems similar to yours.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

same person capturing The blue angel jet planes in flight

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

and here is a photo showing off detail

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Actually I might pic that adapter up for when I don't have my camera with me. Seems well thought out.

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

muffhugga said:
Right… So you read dozens of threads like these with all the passive aggressive phone trolls BUT you don't mean to call them "toy cameras" as a putdown. Get real. I just feel like you need a better insult for the all the phone warriors because I'd take any photo on that site over yours. And that's from an ILC owner

Yes actually I don't tend to call them toy cameras, they are just inferior devices. My 70D is inferior to a 1DX. Am I going to cry? No, why would I, im not that emotionally invested in my choice of camera. If you are a person who ONLY uses a phone and it actually bothers you when somebody says "toy camera", you have bigger issues than how you take photos.

And if you like their photos, any of them as you say, cool story bro. I don't really care about your opinion at all. I like my photos and I get better every day.

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

HatWearingFool said:
Yes, you can control off camera flash in two ways. One you can fire off-camera flashes by using the iPhone flash like you would with any optical slave. The second method is that there are apps which reverse this process; they take a picture whenever a flash is fired.

Excellent. Can I attach my triggers? Oh, and how accurate is the TTL metering?

HatWearingFool said:
As for BIF... I don't see why not. After all Dan Chung covered the 2012 olympics for the guardian with an iPhone. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/jul/27/london-olympics-2012-smartphone That was 3 years ago. The iPhone6 is a huge improvement over the 4 and original 5 he was using.

One guy?? I didn't even look at the link but you are citing one guy? It's the same as the apple links that keep popping up here. Sure there are insanely talented photographers who may or may not be getting paid by a company, who manage to get some amazing shots. But how often? What is their keeper rate per hour? And more importantly, how realistic is that for the average joe?

HatWearingFool said:
There are quite a few adapters that allow phones to be used with binoculars and scopes. I think it's called dig-scoping. I'm guessing at least some of these must used for capturing photos of birds.

Digi scoping is popular among some people, but I can still do that with my ILC, and choose any lens for the first layer of elements. I can throw a 200mm lens in front of the scope. Plus I can shoot prime, meaning no lens and only using the optics of the scope. No matter how we paint it, phones are far inferior to real large sensor cameras.

HatWearingFool said:
A very quick google search gave me this digiscoped photo from an iPhone which seems similar to yours.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

same person capturing The blue angel jet planes in flight

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

and here is a photo showing off detail

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Actually I might pic that adapter up for when I don't have my camera with me. Seems well thought out.

Right bc using phones are so convenient, you can fit them in your pocket. Right im going to want to bring my spotting scope and adapter and phone, all wedged into my cargo pants?? Dude get real, stop arguing with me bc you have a personal vendetta. If im going to lug all that crap around I may as well buy a camera.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

HatWearingFool · Mar 4, 2015

March Of The Tripods said:
HatWearingFool said:

Yes, you can control off camera flash in two ways. One you can fire off-camera flashes by using the iPhone flash like you would with any optical slave. The second method is that there are apps which reverse this process; they take a picture whenever a flash is fired.

Click to expand...

Excellent. Can I attach my triggers? Oh, and how accurate is the TTL metering?

March Of The Tripods said:

As for BIF... I don't see why not. After all Dan Chung covered the 2012 olympics for the guardian with an iPhone. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/jul/27/london-olympics-2012-smartphone That was 3 years ago. The iPhone6 is a huge improvement over the 4 and original 5 he was using.

Click to expand...

One guy?? I didn't even look at the link but you are citing one guy? It's the same as the apple links that keep popping up here. Sure there are insanely talented photographers who may or may not be getting paid by a company, who manage to get some amazing shots. But how often? What is their keeper rate per hour? And more importantly, how realistic is that for the average joe?

March Of The Tripods said:

There are quite a few adapters that allow phones to be used with binoculars and scopes. I think it's called dig-scoping. I'm guessing at least some of these must used for capturing photos of birds.

Click to expand...

Digi scoping is popular among some people, but I can still do that with my ILC, and choose any lens for the first layer of elements. I can throw a 200mm lens in front of the scope. Plus I can shoot prime, meaning no lens and only using the optics of the scope. No matter how we paint it, phones are far inferior to real large sensor cameras.

March Of The Tripods said:

A very quick google search gave me this digiscoped photo from an iPhone which seems similar to yours.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

same person capturing The blue angel jet planes in flight

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

and here is a photo showing off detail

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Actually I might pic that adapter up for when I don't have my camera with me. Seems well thought out.

Click to expand...

Right bc using phones are so convenient, you can fit them in your pocket. Right im going to want to bring my spotting scope and adapter and phone, all wedged into my cargo pants?? Dude get real, stop arguing with me bc you have a personal vendetta. If im going to lug all that crap around I may as well buy a camera.

Personal Vendetta? I thought I provided some reasonable links which answered questions you posted.

Why did you ask if you could control off camera flash if you didn't want to know? How is answering a question you asked carrying out a personal vendetta?

geez.

Well, the thing is I always have my camera with me and sometimes I take my binoculars out with me but not my camera. So the it seems like being able to take a photo every now and then could be convenient.

March Of The Tripods said:
--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

March Of The Tripods · Mar 4, 2015

HatWearingFool said:
Personal Vendetta? I thought I provided some reasonable links which answered questions you posted.

Anybody can disguise their intrusion into a matter with ulterior motives. And no I didn't think your links solved my issues, they are bandaids to the same issues that real cameras have completely solved.

HatWearingFool said:
Why did you ask if you could control off camera flash if you didn't want to know? How is answering a question you asked carrying out a personal vendetta?

I wouldn't exactly call that "controlling". Will it fire? I guess so, is that anywhere near the system I could have with even the lowest cost DSLR? No. I think you unwittingly proved how much better cameras are in those avenues of use.

HatWearingFool said:
Well, the thing is I always have my camera with me and sometimes I take my binoculars out with me but not my camera. So the it seems like being able to take a photo every now and then could be convenient.

Well if you leave your camera behind bc you don't want to take photos, it seems you are creating a problem just to introduce a solution. If you wanted to take photos in the first place, you have a camera and the IQ will be far better assuming you have the proper glass. Even if you don't, you can still digi scope with the camera. Either way the phone loses.

Seccotine · Mar 4, 2015

March Of The Tripods said:
HatWearingFool said:

Personal Vendetta? I thought I provided some reasonable links which answered questions you posted.

Click to expand...

Anybody can disguise their intrusion into a matter with ulterior motives. And no I didn't think your links solved my issues, they are bandaids to the same issues that real cameras have completely solved.

Intrusion right, because it's not you who come here insulting everyone. So here is a thread about the iPhone being able to take decent pictures, you and "More Keepers" rave in telling everyone who are just enjoying their options that they are wrong and their opinions suck, insisting on using derogatory labeling, and to top it all you manage to feel insulted "trolled", just by the fact that the people you poop on stay with their opinions? There is such depth in your mental scleroses I'm with no words.

No-one here is talking down on your pixel perfect BIFs and disney photo ops, so let people who care about subject and composition more than technical perfection live. And in particular coming here claiming _you_ are insulted by the fact that people don't agree when you're the one insisting on talking down on them is perfectly bonkers. WTF to say the least. Ignore list.

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