Do I need to change software??

mistermejia · Feb 28, 2015

I need your advice.

I just took these two photos in RAW a couple minutes ago. To me the clouds from the S5 simply look better. They just look real and nicer to me, vs the clouds from my XE1 i'm not pleased at all.

Many here have thrown it on my face that the XE1 is superior to the S5, or that I just don't know how to use the camera. I respect those opinions, but I just disagree. Now, this is the thing: Is this a "software" issue? Is it the software what could be the problem here?

The reason why I ask is because months ago i did compare LR vs Photoninja and Photoninja's output results for this sort of thing is VERY bad. I do know for a fact that all the software that is out there behaves differently, and MOST of the time when I compare my images from the S5 vs the XE1, the S5 simply wins, for what I do that is. Note that I don't pixle peep any larger than maybe 50% on this images. I don't print large. But the difference between the clouds I clearly see it.

I don't know, but I just feel that I am not seeing or getting the full potential of my XE1. Do I need to maybe invest in a Mac pc to get FULL advantage of this Xtrans sensor? This is exactly why I haven't invested in Fuji ALL THE WAY.

Ysarex · Feb 28, 2015

mistermejia said:
I need your advice.

I just took these two photos in RAW a couple minutes ago. To me the clouds from the S5 simply look better. They just look real and nicer to me, vs the clouds from my XE1 i'm not pleased at all.

Many here have thrown it on my face that the XE1 is superior to the S5, or that I just don't know how to use the camera. I respect those opinions, but I just disagree. Now, this is the thing: Is this a "software" issue? Is it the software what could be the problem here?

The reason why I ask is because months ago i did compare LR vs Photoninja and Photoninja's output results for this sort of thing is VERY bad. I do know for a fact that all the software that is out there behaves differently, and MOST of the time when I compare my images from the S5 vs the XE1, the S5 simply wins, for what I do that is. Note that I don't pixle peep any larger than maybe 50% on this images. I don't print large. But the difference between the clouds I clearly see it.

I don't know, but I just feel that I am not seeing or getting the full potential of my XE1. Do I need to maybe invest in a Mac pc to get FULL advantage of this Xtrans sensor?

I think you got it there: A MAC and Apple's new Photos software is the answer to the problems you've been having with the X-E1! Seriously -- that should do the trick.

mistermejia said:
This is exactly why I haven't invested in Fuji ALL THE WAY.

MrFresno · Feb 28, 2015

It seems you did the same thing in this comparison that you did last time. You shoot both cameras at the same aperture and shutter speed, but you use ISO100 on the S5 and ISO200 on the X-E1. Then you wonder why the S5 seems to have better highlight retention.

Isnt it obvious that you should equalize these settings before doing a comparison? You should either set the S5 to ISO200 or cut the X-E1 exposure time in half.

rmrcu · Feb 28, 2015

Hi mistermejia,

My initial response was that you should shoot with the camera whose results you prefer, but I think you're wondering why a "superior" camera is giving you results you like less than your S5.

First, to my eye the two images are very close in terms of color. The difference in the cloud rendering could easily be caused by the fact the two scenes are different, and that the clouds actually looked different.

Second, the two cameras have different internal software so they process the images differently.

Third, the lenses appear to be different so they would transmit light differently.

However, it would take only a little manipulation of the XE1 image to make it look more like the S5 rendering--probably slightly less exposure and a bit more contrast.

As you probably know, the XE1 has different film simulation and DR settings. Maybe you need to experiment with these to set up your camera to get the results you like. For me, part of the fun of photography is figuring out what it is I like/dislike in a photo, and then finding out how to use the camera/software to change the image to get what I want.

Since your complaint is basically "why doesn't the XE1 give me pictures that I think are more appealing than the S5?" I would say that since the camera can't know what you like, all it can do is give you an image that has the greatest potential for manipulation (ie, processing or development). I think the XE1 very satisfactory in this respect; I can't say anything about the S5 because I don't know that camera.

Hope this helps.

Bob

mistermejia · Feb 28, 2015

Randy Benter said:
It seems you did the same thing in this comparison that you did last time. You shoot both cameras at the same aperture and shutter speed, but you use ISO100 on the S5 and ISO200 on the X-E1. Then you wonder why the S5 seems to have better highlight retention.

Isnt it obvious that you should equalize these settings before doing a comparison? You should either set the S5 to ISO200 or cut the X-E1 exposure time in half.

I'm glad you mention this. Yes this is the second time some one tells me about not using is 100 on the Xe1. How do you select is 100 on the xe1? When I select RAW the Xe1 automatically uses is 200. Let me see if I can change that manually some how. I will look into this now. Thanks.

When i had recently purchased the Xe1 a while ago, I remember reading here that the best is setting is is 200. Is that statement false?

MrFresno · Feb 28, 2015

mistermejia said:
Randy Benter said:

It seems you did the same thing in this comparison that you did last time. You shoot both cameras at the same aperture and shutter speed, but you use ISO100 on the S5 and ISO200 on the X-E1. Then you wonder why the S5 seems to have better highlight retention.

Isnt it obvious that you should equalize these settings before doing a comparison? You should either set the S5 to ISO200 or cut the X-E1 exposure time in half.

Click to expand...

I'm glad you mention this. Yes this is the second time some one tells me about not using is 100 on the Xe1. How do you select is 100 on the xe1? When I select RAW the Xe1 automatically uses is 200. Let me see if I can change that manually some how. I will look into this now. Thanks.

When i had recently purchased the Xe1 a while ago, I remember reading here that the best is setting is is 200. Is that statement false?

Base ISO of the X-E1 is ISO200 and Yes, that's the best setting. That's why I suggested changing the S5 to ISO200. If you want to use both cameras at base ISO, then you can give the X-E1 half the exposure time.

mistermejia · Feb 28, 2015

Randy Benter said:
mistermejia said:

Randy Benter said:

It seems you did the same thing in this comparison that you did last time. You shoot both cameras at the same aperture and shutter speed, but you use ISO100 on the S5 and ISO200 on the X-E1. Then you wonder why the S5 seems to have better highlight retention.

Isnt it obvious that you should equalize these settings before doing a comparison? You should either set the S5 to ISO200 or cut the X-E1 exposure time in half.

Click to expand...

I'm glad you mention this. Yes this is the second time some one tells me about not using is 100 on the Xe1. How do you select is 100 on the xe1? When I select RAW the Xe1 automatically uses is 200. Let me see if I can change that manually some how. I will look into this now. Thanks.

When i had recently purchased the Xe1 a while ago, I remember reading here that the best is setting is is 200. Is that statement false?

Click to expand...

Base ISO of the X-E1 is ISO200 and Yes, that's the best setting. That's why I suggested changing the S5 to ISO200. If you want to use both cameras at base ISO, then you can give the X-E1 half the exposure time.

Okay. So the XE1 best setting is at iso 200. So this is the second time some one, including yourself, tell me to shoot my S5 at ISO 200. Why would I want to shoot my S5 at ISO 200 when I can shoot at 100??

mistermejia · Feb 28, 2015

rmrcu said:
Hi mistermejia,

My initial response was that you should shoot with the camera whose results you prefer, but I think you're wondering why a "superior" camera is giving you results you like less than your S5.

First, to my eye the two images are very close in terms of color. The difference in the cloud rendering could easily be caused by the fact the two scenes are different, and that the clouds actually looked different.

Hahahahaha!!! Come on, clouds are clouds. I took the shot with one camera, then I went to the next one.

rmrcu said:
Second, the two cameras have different internal software so they process the images differently.

Yes indeed sir. They do have different internal software AND hardware.

rmrcu said:
Third, the lenses appear to be different so they would transmit light differently.

So, what do you mean by this? Is the sigma lens better than the Fuji lens?

rmrcu said:
However, it would take only a little manipulation of the XE1 image to make it look more like the S5 rendering--probably slightly less exposure and a bit more contrast.

Maybe, but then this is the problem I keep seeing. If I decrease exposure my whole picture gets darker, then I start messing with shadows and the IQ drops. You know what I'm saying?

rmrcu said:
As you probably know, the XE1 has different film simulation and DR settings. Maybe you need to experiment with these to set up your camera to get the results you like. For me, part of the fun of photography is figuring out what it is I like/dislike in a photo, and then finding out how to use the camera/software to change the image to get what I want.

Since your complaint is basically "why doesn't the XE1 give me pictures that I think are more appealing than the S5?" I would say that since the camera can't know what you like, all it can do is give you an image that has the greatest potential for manipulation (ie, processing or development). I think the XE1 very satisfactory in this respect; I can't say anything about the S5 because I don't know that camera.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Stacey_K · Feb 28, 2015

mistermejia said:
Maybe, but then this is the problem I keep seeing. If I decrease exposure my whole picture gets darker, then I start messing with shadows and the IQ drops. You know what I'm saying?

OK, what they are saying is you aren't shooting these at equal exposures. You have to set the X-E1 at F8 1/1000 @ iso 200 to equal the S5 set at F8 1/500 @ iso 100. You will have to play with film simulations, contrast etc to figure out what works best.

pluton · Feb 28, 2015

Aside from the order of magnitude poorer resolution coming from the S5, probably because the X lens used is superior, the only difference I see in rendition is that the contrast isn't matched between the two. Darken the dark parts of the clouds on the XE1 shot and you are basically there.

--
-KB-

mistermejia · Feb 28, 2015

Stacey_K said:
mistermejia said:

Maybe, but then this is the problem I keep seeing. If I decrease exposure my whole picture gets darker, then I start messing with shadows and the IQ drops. You know what I'm saying?

Click to expand...

OK, what they are saying is you aren't shooting these at equal exposures. You have to set the X-E1 at F8 1/1000 @ iso 200 to equal the S5 set at F8 1/500 @ iso 100. You will have to play with film simulations, contrast etc to figure out what works best.

Stacey_K · Feb 28, 2015

mistermejia said:
Stacey_K said:

mistermejia said:

Maybe, but then this is the problem I keep seeing. If I decrease exposure my whole picture gets darker, then I start messing with shadows and the IQ drops. You know what I'm saying?

Click to expand...

OK, what they are saying is you aren't shooting these at equal exposures. You have to set the X-E1 at F8 1/1000 @ iso 200 to equal the S5 set at F8 1/500 @ iso 100. You will have to play with film simulations, contrast etc to figure out what works best.

Click to expand...

mistermejia · Feb 28, 2015

Stacey_K said:
mistermejia said:

Stacey_K said:

mistermejia said:

Maybe, but then this is the problem I keep seeing. If I decrease exposure my whole picture gets darker, then I start messing with shadows and the IQ drops. You know what I'm saying?

Click to expand...

OK, what they are saying is you aren't shooting these at equal exposures. You have to set the X-E1 at F8 1/1000 @ iso 200 to equal the S5 set at F8 1/500 @ iso 100. You will have to play with film simulations, contrast etc to figure out what works best.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

meagre offerings · Feb 28, 2015

mistermejia said:
Stacey_K said:

mistermejia said:

Maybe, but then this is the problem I keep seeing. If I decrease exposure my whole picture gets darker, then I start messing with shadows and the IQ drops. You know what I'm saying?

Click to expand...

OK, what they are saying is you aren't shooting these at equal exposures. You have to set the X-E1 at F8 1/1000 @ iso 200 to equal the S5 set at F8 1/500 @ iso 100. You will have to play with film simulations, contrast etc to figure out what works best.

Click to expand...

John Carson · Mar 1, 2015

mistermejia said:
I need your advice.

I just took these two photos in RAW a couple minutes ago. To me the clouds from the S5 simply look better. They just look real and nicer to me, vs the clouds from my XE1 i'm not pleased at all.

Many here have thrown it on my face that the XE1 is superior to the S5, or that I just don't know how to use the camera. I respect those opinions, but I just disagree. Now, this is the thing: Is this a "software" issue? Is it the software what could be the problem here?

The reason why I ask is because months ago i did compare LR vs Photoninja and Photoninja's output results for this sort of thing is VERY bad. I do know for a fact that all the software that is out there behaves differently, and MOST of the time when I compare my images from the S5 vs the XE1, the S5 simply wins, for what I do that is. Note that I don't pixle peep any larger than maybe 50% on this images. I don't print large. But the difference between the clouds I clearly see it.

I don't know, but I just feel that I am not seeing or getting the full potential of my XE1. Do I need to maybe invest in a Mac pc to get FULL advantage of this Xtrans sensor? This is exactly why I haven't invested in Fuji ALL THE WAY.

You seem to be talking about something highly subjective. The S5 has a noisy sky with obvious JPEG artifacts. The S5 foreground has less detail. As for the clouds, they have changed shape significantly from one shot to the next, affecting the patterns of light, so maybe you just like the clouds in the S5 shot.

If you play around with contrast, exposure etc. you might get something you like better. I'm not seeing any advantage for the S5.

--
john carson

mistermejia · Mar 1, 2015

meagre offerings said:
meagre offerings said:

Stacey_K said:

mistermejia said:

Maybe, but then this is the problem I keep seeing. If I decrease exposure my whole picture gets darker, then I start messing with shadows and the IQ drops. You know what I'm saying?

Click to expand...

OK, what they are saying is you aren't shooting these at equal exposures. You have to set the X-E1 at F8 1/1000 @ iso 200 to equal the S5 set at F8 1/500 @ iso 100. You will have to play with film simulations, contrast etc to figure out what works best.

--
Stacey

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. So by doing this with the XE1 I will see better detail on the clouds? Just trying to understand the camera better.

Click to expand...

I think you need to try and understand the laws of exposure first. Doing comparisons when its obvious by your responses that you have not yet fully understood exposure, is completely meaningless.

Very best

Pc
--
http://www.pbase.com/meagre_offerings/street_photography

`im a simple man, i use simple tools, and i shoot what i see` L S Lowry (but bastardised by me).

You are kidding right?

I know exactly what is going to happen to the exposure if I increase the shutter speed to 1/1000 of a second on the XE1. Give me a break.

Look guys, the original question was if a different piece of software can provide a better output. Perhaps LR is not the best for this, I'm not sure.

Here is a "better" exposed image from the XE1 below. Yes, the clouds look much better from the original photo I posted, but to me, an eight year old camera still kicks the XE1's a** when it comes to detail in situations like this. Not resolution, detail/texture. It might not be by a HUGE margin, but the S5 definitely has the edge.

Again, I'm just trying to figure out if another piece of software provides a better output for the Xtrans XE1. Is that so difficult to understand? If there isn't, then so be it and we'll just leave it at that.

papillon_65 · Mar 1, 2015

In my experience different lenses can play a part in this. High quality lenses often give you a bit better contrast, which might explain the difference. The clouds in the S5 shot definitely have higher contrast. You can sometimes equalise this by using software gradient filters such as the one in Lightroom. I use Nik Color Efex which has some nice gradient filters in it and can make a noticeable difference, or the tonal contrast tool which you can use selectively very easily. A graduated neutral density filter could also give you better results if this is important to you.

Ollie 2 · Mar 1, 2015

Ysarex said:
mistermejia said:

I need your advice.

I just took these two photos in RAW a couple minutes ago. To me the clouds from the S5 simply look better. They just look real and nicer to me, vs the clouds from my XE1 i'm not pleased at all.

Many here have thrown it on my face that the XE1 is superior to the S5, or that I just don't know how to use the camera. I respect those opinions, but I just disagree. Now, this is the thing: Is this a "software" issue? Is it the software what could be the problem here?

The reason why I ask is because months ago i did compare LR vs Photoninja and Photoninja's output results for this sort of thing is VERY bad. I do know for a fact that all the software that is out there behaves differently, and MOST of the time when I compare my images from the S5 vs the XE1, the S5 simply wins, for what I do that is. Note that I don't pixle peep any larger than maybe 50% on this images. I don't print large. But the difference between the clouds I clearly see it.

I don't know, but I just feel that I am not seeing or getting the full potential of my XE1. Do I need to maybe invest in a Mac pc to get FULL advantage of this Xtrans sensor?

Click to expand...

I think you got it there: A MAC and Apple's new Photos software is the answer to the problems you've been having with the X-E1! Seriously -- that should do the trick.

Ysarex said:

This is exactly why I haven't invested in Fuji ALL THE WAY.

Click to expand...

Lol.

MrFresno · Mar 1, 2015

mistermejia said:
meagre offerings said:

mistermejia said:

Stacey_K said:

mistermejia said:

Maybe, but then this is the problem I keep seeing. If I decrease exposure my whole picture gets darker, then I start messing with shadows and the IQ drops. You know what I'm saying?

Click to expand...

OK, what they are saying is you aren't shooting these at equal exposures. You have to set the X-E1 at F8 1/1000 @ iso 200 to equal the S5 set at F8 1/500 @ iso 100. You will have to play with film simulations, contrast etc to figure out what works best.

--
Stacey

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. So by doing this with the XE1 I will see better detail on the clouds? Just trying to understand the camera better.

Click to expand...

I think you need to try and understand the laws of exposure first. Doing comparisons when its obvious by your responses that you have not yet fully understood exposure, is completely meaningless.

Click to expand...

You are kidding right?

I know exactly what is going to happen to the exposure if I increase the shutter speed to 1/1000 of a second on the XE1. Give me a break.

Look guys, the original question was if a different piece of software can provide a better output. Perhaps LR is not the best for this, I'm not sure.

Here is a "better" exposed image from the XE1 below. Yes, the clouds look much better from the original photo I posted, but to me, an eight year old camera still kicks the XE1's a** when it comes to detail in situations like this. Not resolution, detail/texture. It might not be by a HUGE margin, but the S5 definitely has the edge.

How can you call this a "better exposed image" when it is the same image/same exposure as in your OP? It seems you just darkened it in LR. The exposure of an image happens once and can't be changed in post. The fact that you don't understand such basic concepts of photography is why so many people here give you a hard time. You simply aren't qualified to test/compare camera gear and you habitually argue with those who try to help you. You reach incorrect conclusions and then defend those incorrect conclusions even when everyone else explains to you why they are false.

mistermejia said:
Again, I'm just trying to figure out if another piece of software provides a better output for the Xtrans XE1. Is that so difficult to understand? If there isn't, then so be it and we'll just leave it at that.

What is it about the X-E1 image that you want to improve? It already has much better detail than the S5 image.

skutters · Mar 1, 2015

Just looks like exposure difference to me, nothing more than that.

Do I need to change software??

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