An interesting link for those who only shoot RAW

I like the look of the RAW one better
It is not about the look. It is about the exposure. To get rid of the clipping in highlights JPEG needs to be exposed more than 1 stop less compared to raw. And details in shadows do not exist after that underexposure. The dynamic range of the scene is quite modest btw - 8 stops only. But JPEG clips it to about 6 stops usable.
 
JPGs can be set up really well to your own tastes with a bit of thought and consideration, via the menu. Aids like ADL can also make a big difference. I also think a lot depends on the individual camera. Some cameras do a superb job while others are just so so.

If you shoot with a camera like the Fuji Pro 1, there is seriously little need to shoot in RAW. :)
I understand that the colors, sharpness settings, etc of Fuji for their JPEGs are very very good. This is great news of course for anyone who prefers to have their images straight out of the camera style. For me, I like to spend time to "interpret" the image and for that I'm always going to use RAW because it's more optimal for that.... so even if I had a Fuji camera, I'd still be shooting RAW. What some folks fail to understand is that there are subtitles beyond just decent sharpness, exposure and color that many of us like to bring out of our photographs before we're done with them. Adjustments that are only going to be done after carefully evaluating the image rather than as we're taking the photo...
 
It's about skill and confidence.

No need for RAW at all unless you are pushing the envelope.

You also must know that photography is as much about the eye, the composition, as it is the camera and processing.

There is simply too much emphasis on having the latest big rig and endless processing and not enough on the artistic eye and skilful camera handling.

My son in law who I assist in wedding photography is booked up two years in advance and lectures in photography at Bournemouth University.. He constantly emphasises the ability of the photographer to first see and then capture precisely the moment is the skill that marks out a pro from an amateur. Not the gear used or the workflow.

if it's of interest we shoot a mix of Canon 5D's, Sony A7s, Fuji XT1 and Nikon V2 (silent ) nearly always JPEG.
So let me get this straight. Your son lectures in wedding photography, and you guys own multiple FF bodies, and after all this, you allow somebody else to choose your camera settings?? You let somebody else choose your contrast, your NR, your sharpness, your saturation?

Oh sure you may have a few sliders in the jpeg menus, but you only get what they let you have. With raw I can adjust anything the actual sensor will offer. After all that pro talk, after all that posturing, you let your results fall into some Japanese businessman's hands? What's next, hiring a Kai to follow you around and take photos for you??
 
JPGs can be set up really well to your own tastes with a bit of thought and consideration,
That's not so. JPEGs have tone curve and white balance baked in. That is why the shot above is strongly overexposed in JPEG (more than 1 stop) and 1/3 EV underexposed in raw.

Raw preserves much more dynamic range of the scene because one can expose it hotter, and white balance setting on the camera does not cause data clipping.

--

http://www.libraw.org/
You still have a lot to learn my friend :)
 
Is it ALWAYS wrong to clip highlights and hide detail in shadows?

Not necessarily.

Sometimes it's better to see what the eye sees and stop going HDRish on everything.

Not always I agree but sometimes we should challenge the perceived conventions of what is good and bad. :)
 
I like the look of the RAW one better
It is not about the look. It is about the exposure. To get rid of the clipping in highlights JPEG needs to be exposed more than 1 stop less compared to raw. And details in shadows do not exist after that underexposure. The dynamic range of the scene is quite modest btw - 8 stops only. But JPEG clips it to about 6 stops usable.
Reason enough that I don't bother with JPEG. I want the flexibility to bring more out of the shadows and/or highlights later. I don't feel that a photo is always better if it has more shadow or highlight detail, but if I decide that I do want that and I've shot JPEG then I have much less to work with. RAW just gives me more options. If you don't care about those options and want something more convenient, you can get perfectly good results with JPEG... but if you do....

--
my flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/128435329@N08/
 
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Sometimes it's better to see what the eye sees and stop going HDRish on everything.

Not always I agree but sometimes we should challenge the perceived conventions of what is good and bad. :)
 
Is it ALWAYS wrong to clip highlights and hide detail in shadows?
The decision is better saved for image processing stage. No good in damaged originals. What eye can see - well, in that particular scene it was easy to see all of it.
 
.... and that's fine!

But it is NOT essential to shoot RAW and process everything.

in fact if you really really want to get the best out of your RAW shots try shooting JPEG for a while and concentrate on getting it right first time in camera.

You will be a better photographer for it. :)
 
JPGs can be set up really well to your own tastes with a bit of thought and consideration,
That's not so. JPEGs have tone curve and white balance baked in. That is why the shot above is strongly overexposed in JPEG (more than 1 stop) and 1/3 EV underexposed in raw.

Raw preserves much more dynamic range of the scene because one can expose it hotter, and white balance setting on the camera does not cause data clipping.
You still have a lot to learn my friend :)
Out of arguments? :)
 
We can perceive a wide dynamic range but you go outside and look at a bright contrasty scene, you see dark shadows and bright white, not HDR ish shading.
 
I like the look of the RAW one better
It is not about the look. It is about the exposure. To get rid of the clipping in highlights JPEG needs to be exposed more than 1 stop less compared to raw. And details in shadows do not exist after that underexposure. The dynamic range of the scene is quite modest btw - 8 stops only. But JPEG clips it to about 6 stops usable.
I want the flexibility to bring more out of the shadows and/or highlights later.
Because of underexposure compared to raw JPEGs have less resolution and more noise in midtones as well.
 
We can perceive a wide dynamic range but you go outside and look at a bright contrasty scene, you see dark shadows and bright white, not HDR ish shading.

--
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/i.kirk
Simple scenario where the eye has far more dynamic range: we can simultaneously see through a window out to a bright sunny scene outside, and also see the objects inside the house just fine.

Cameras won't expose both properly. Either the outside scene is blown out, or the objects inside the house are in the shadows.

--
http://www.lightfinity.net
 
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So then I would use RAW....or change the shot and shoot somewhere else! :)
 
It's about skill and confidence.

No need for RAW at all unless you are pushing the envelope.

You also must know that photography is as much about the eye, the composition, as it is the camera and processing.

There is simply too much emphasis on having the latest big rig and endless processing and not enough on the artistic eye and skilful camera handling.

My son in law who I assist in wedding photography is booked up two years in advance and lectures in photography at Bournemouth University.. He constantly emphasises the ability of the photographer to first see and then capture precisely the moment is the skill that marks out a pro from an amateur. Not the gear used or the workflow.

if it's of interest we shoot a mix of Canon 5D's, Sony A7s, Fuji XT1 and Nikon V2 (silent ) nearly always JPEG.
Workflow and formats are strictly personal and it is up to the photographer to decide what suies him best.

It is true that you can do almost everything with jpg but one thing is sure, with raw it is safer. When I have to soot the most important day in the life of the couple, I prefer to play it as safe as possible, that is why I only shoot raw.

I respect your choice of jpg if it suites you but personally, I don't see any advantage in it except maybe for saving some space and being too lazy to PP.

Moti

--
http://www.pixpix.be
http://www.musicalpix.com
 
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.... and that's fine!

But it is NOT essential to shoot RAW and process everything.

in fact if you really really want to get the best out of your RAW shots try shooting JPEG for a while and concentrate on getting it right first time in camera.

You will be a better photographer for it. :)
I guess that I don't look at it that way... Not at all. I don't have a problem with photographers that do everything in-camrea and I'm sure that I've admired many shots made that way. I just consider the post-processing stage as part of the creative process. It isn't that I'm necessarily trying to compensate for poor exposure, white balance or anything else, it's just that I prefer to make certain adjustments only after evaluating what I have. Often I'm shooting B&W too and to set the JPEG for B&W and to shoot that way would seem to be giving up a lot of control over how colors are converted to B&W tones and the kind of super-percise contrast adjustments that I feel make B&W really sing.

I do agree that it isn't necessary to shoot RAW to get good results, but I happen to like the flexibility that it gives me and since I'm making adjustments of some kind much more often than not, then it makes sense that RAW is the rule for me rather than JPEG. Nothing wrong with either approach though it if works for you, I say...

I look at the computer/processing stage much like a darkroom for digital. Most of us, especially those who shot B&W film spent some time and energy perfecting the print... just part of the process so there's really nothing new about the idea of processing the work.
 

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