Upside down lens test question...

Impulses

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So I bought a refurb Oly 12mm (for $386 from Oly!) and I kinda wanna test that I didn't get somebody else's reject, tho it looks pristine and my first couple shots look fine at first glance...

I've read about the upside down test, comparing two photos (one taken with the camera upside down) to detect any obvious asymmetry issues. I know I should have a relatively far target and use MF to keep it constant, my question is: should I be testing at peak aperture only or at multiple apertures or what?

I would think one set of photos, at say f4, would do; but I wanna make sure. I have a busy work week but I wanna make some time to this done sooner rather than later so my return window doesn't lapse.

Any other obvious/easy test I could perform? TIA
 
I almost hate to suggest it, but brick wall test would be a good way to tell if your lens is decentered, if you are careful to align the camera perfectly with the wall.

Be sure to compare edges with each other and not to the center (which will always be sharper).

Also, the usual - check for dirt/dust/fungus in elements (you can do this visually off the body and also stopping down to see if you get dirtspeck artefacts). Check front and rear elements for scratches. Check electrical contacts for corrosion/wear. Check focus ring for smooth action. Check filter thread for warped/broken threads (easiest with a ascrew on filter rather than visual inspection).

I think the refurbished Oly lenses tend to be quite reliable, but I haven't had any direct experience with them.

Oh, and don't just check at infinity, but also at multiple focus distances.
 
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The simplest and quickest way is to use the lens wide open and shoot a few pictures of a brick wall, camera oriented normally and camera upside down. With some lenses (maybe mostly longer lenses or extending zoom lenses) barrel play may have some influence. You can then also try taking a picture in portrait-orientation, comparing camera turned to the left versus camera turned to the right.

It is unlikely that you will notice differences with the lens stopped down (e.g. to f/4) that you do not notice with the lens wide open. I always perform the test with the lens wide open (largest aperture).
 
If you want to test for asymmetry at very far focus distances, try the four corners test as with things very far away finding a flat target perpendicular with your shooting angle is difficult.

Use MF and before test shots are taken, fix exposure and WB so they are constant throughout the test. Focus on some target with good contrast, say a street sign, with it put in the centre of the frame. Take a shot. Without modifying anything else and esp. the focus, aperture (which should be wide open (F2) and your shooting position, swing the camera to put that target at each of the corners and take four other shots.

Check the target's sharpness among the five pictures and ignore any other stuff in the photos. Check esp. if the four corner shots are consistent.
 
If you want to test for asymmetry at very far focus distances, try the four corners test as with things very far away finding a flat target perpendicular with your shooting angle is difficult.

Use MF and before test shots are taken, fix exposure and WB so they are constant throughout the test. Focus on some target with good contrast, say a street sign, with it put in the centre of the frame. Take a shot. Without modifying anything else and esp. the focus, aperture (which should be wide open (F2) and your shooting position, swing the camera to put that target at each of the corners and take four other shots.

Check the target's sharpness among the five pictures and ignore any other stuff in the photos. Check esp. if the four corner shots are consistent.
 
The simplest and quickest way is to use the lens wide open and shoot a few pictures of a brick wall, camera oriented normally and camera upside down. With some lenses (maybe mostly longer lenses or extending zoom lenses) barrel play may have some influence. You can then also try taking a picture in portrait-orientation, comparing camera turned to the left versus camera turned to the right.

It is unlikely that you will notice differences with the lens stopped down (e.g. to f/4) that you do not notice with the lens wide open. I always perform the test with the lens wide open (largest aperture).
 
To the OP: Only $386 for that manufacturer-refurb lens? Of couse, it is someone else's reject. But it's a great deal so I wouldn't be overly perfectionistic in your testing. Just enjoy the lens!
 
If you want to test for asymmetry at very far focus distances, try the four corners test as with things very far away finding a flat target perpendicular with your shooting angle is difficult.

Use MF and before test shots are taken, fix exposure and WB so they are constant throughout the test. Focus on some target with good contrast, say a street sign, with it put in the centre of the frame. Take a shot. Without modifying anything else and esp. the focus, aperture (which should be wide open (F2) and your shooting position, swing the camera to put that target at each of the corners and take four other shots.

Check the target's sharpness among the five pictures and ignore any other stuff in the photos. Check esp. if the four corner shots are consistent.
 
To the OP: Only $386 for that manufacturer-refurb lens? Of couse, it is someone else's reject. But it's a great deal so I wouldn't be overly perfectionistic in your testing. Just enjoy the lens!
Well, all refurbs were likely rejected by someone for one reason or another, people sometimes return things for the silliest of reasons tho (not necessarily because it was decentered etc)... The 12mm routinely shows up on Oly's refurb outlet for $480, which is a little lower than what it goes for used.

I was just lucky enough to be able to combine that with a 20% President's Day discount code they were running on refurb stuff. (and I only managed that because Oly delayed my order to verify my address, I had originally placed it before the president's day sale) So ya, I probably shouldn't push my luck but still... :p

I haven't really critically tested any of the half dozen lenses I've bought thru the last year or two, even tho I should've and wanted to, but since this only has a 30 day return window and 90 day warranty I figured I'd start with it. I'm thinking I'll avoid the brick wall target nonetheless... ;)
 
The simplest and quickest way is to use the lens wide open and shoot a few pictures of a brick wall, camera oriented normally and camera upside down. With some lenses (maybe mostly longer lenses or extending zoom lenses) barrel play may have some influence. You can then also try taking a picture in portrait-orientation, comparing camera turned to the left versus camera turned to the right.

It is unlikely that you will notice differences with the lens stopped down (e.g. to f/4) that you do not notice with the lens wide open. I always perform the test with the lens wide open (largest aperture).
 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/how-test-your-lens

This is helpful. You can actually download a similar chart off the web, and print it.

-J
Indeed. Good reading.

One of the most crucial problems of flat-target test shooting, that of lining up the shots properly, is usually not treated properly in these guides and that's one of the primary motivations for easy to use methods such as the upside down method or four corners test.

This is especially relevant as the OP has limited time and others may have an aversion of shooting resolution targets. And the problems we are testing for tend not to be how sharp a lens is numerically, rather than how consistent it is with itself (including decentering, field flatness, tilts etc.).

The test chart (or book shelf) method could be enormously enhanced by what was once suggested here in this forum by micksh6 - when lining up a test chart shot, stick a small mirror to the centre of the chart (making the mirror parallel to the chart should be easy as it's on the target) and aim so that the centre of the lens can be seen in the centre of the mirror in the shot.
 
Don't limit yourself to f/4. You should try at least 4 pictures :
  • wide open, upside and down
  • 2 or 3 stops closed, upside and down
Testing insfinite focus point can be difficult, depending where you live.

IMO, the most important things are :
  • the camera needs to be properly aligned : best is to shoot a vertical wall and use a gauge level
  • the focus must be on the same point (central AF is your friend)
  • you sould try not shake (not necessarily obvious since tripods don't help for the down-side shot) : a good way is to use a small plastic bac, closed and full of beans or anything (easier inside since you can put the plastic bag on a piece of furniture and stabilize the camera)
  • brick walls are OK but it is possible indoor as well : just grab a test chart on the web, print it and stick it on a wall ; if your lense is too wide, just put 4 of them on a large wall (to test corners)
Especially wide open, corner softness is completeley normal (DOF) but you don't care : what you care about is the delta between shots.
 
The simplest and quickest way is to use the lens wide open and shoot a few pictures of a brick wall, camera oriented normally and camera upside down. With some lenses (maybe mostly longer lenses or extending zoom lenses) barrel play may have some influence. You can then also try taking a picture in portrait-orientation, comparing camera turned to the left versus camera turned to the right.

It is unlikely that you will notice differences with the lens stopped down (e.g. to f/4) that you do not notice with the lens wide open. I always perform the test with the lens wide open (largest aperture).
 
Thanks for the tips tokumeino (and everyone else). Using a bean bag is a good idea, I had thought about using a pillow or a towel to get the camera to sit still upside down but a bean or rice bag should work even better for small adjustments.
 
or just do a portrait shot in either orientation with a tripod. Moving the tripod left/right and lining it up properly might be tougher tho...

Plus finding a portrait target with the 12mm that isn't 25% empty sky might take some thinking too, heh.
That doesn't matter (finding a portrait target with the 12mm that isn't 25% empty sky).

All you need is detail at infinity in two corners in each image. When you flip the camera 180 degrees (whether in portrait or landscape mode), you'll have detail in the opposite two corners, which is all you need in order to make your comparison. There's no requirement to have detail in all four corners in each image.
 
Too bad you're not living where I live. That's the picturesque view I've got from my main window. Lens testing heaven. But otherwise pretty awful.

*I promise, hand on heart, that I didn't choose to live here because of this amazing view*



159b2d1d3a5c46158dbbc85ae73ef7e4.jpg
 
Thanks for sharing this fabulous abstract picture. Well seen and well taken.
 
The simplest and quickest way is to use the lens wide open and shoot a few pictures of a brick wall, camera oriented normally and camera upside down. With some lenses (maybe mostly longer lenses or extending zoom lenses) barrel play may have some influence. You can then also try taking a picture in portrait-orientation, comparing camera turned to the left versus camera turned to the right.

It is unlikely that you will notice differences with the lens stopped down (e.g. to f/4) that you do not notice with the lens wide open. I always perform the test with the lens wide open (largest aperture).

--
Slowly learning to use the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.
Hmm, so wide open huh? I thought it made more sense to test stopped down for peak sharpness and more DoF but I guess it I'm just comparing one shot vs the other it doesn't really matter... Most issues are exacerbated fully open?
Yes, you should test wide open because that's where any deviations from perfection will show up most clearly. When testing whether you got a good copy, you don't want the inreased DoF and reduced aberrations that come with stopping down a bit to mask any problem. Of course, you may want to make a couple of shots slightly stopped down as well, just to make sure how the lens reacts to that. But you are unlikely to learn more about any asymmetry problem by doing that. Most likely, you'll just see things sharpen up a bit, primarily at the corners/edges.

You don't necessarily need a brick wall though. Pretty much any target will do as long as it has sufficient detail for you to see sharpness differences and is sufficiently far away that minor differences in distance or minor deviations from parallelity won't practically matter any more. You find a brief recipe for doing the upside-down test here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51037446

There shouldn't be any problem using that test with the 12/2. I have successfully used it with that lens myself. But, as suggested by Paul, there may be a few cases where it is not the best bet. In that case, I'd turn to the four-corner test suggested by tt321 in this thread here. See here for an example of this test

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53894316

along with some associated discussion here

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53894551

The advantages of both these tests (upside-down, four corners) over the alternative of shooting some test chart, real or improvised, are a) that they are very expedient, b) not very difficult to do right, and c) test the lens at a distance where sharpness across the frame is most practically relevant (far distance).

The test-chart method has its advantages too when you have a studio permanently set up to do that (and only that, as do the test sites) and you have already checked, double-checked, and triple-checked that the setup is perfect. But when that's not the case, it is in my experience quite error-prone. Such tests is what I used to do with new lenses until a few years ago, and I don't know how many times I have had to go back and redo it, sometimes several times, because I eventually discovered that the problem was with some minor detail of my test rather than with the lens I was testing.
Got it, wide open it is... Thanks for the extra links, I understand the why/how of the four corner test more clearly now. I'll probably try both for practice and post the results here out of morbid curiosity to see what others see... :p

I wanna try and do it with some support to avoid any extra variables, probably doesn't matter much for the 12mm but later I wanna take a look at my 45mm and others as well...
I have done this test hand-held without problem (i.e., the results are consistent on a shot-to-shot basis) up to 75 mm. Not really a problem as long as you can keep the shutter speed well above (a couple of stops or so) the normal "shake-limit" (1/EFL).
Still debating whether to rest the camera on a towel or something so it can actually sit still upside down, or just do a portrait shot in either orientation with a tripod.
If you've got a tripod with reversible center column, you might try that. But on the few occasions when I have used the upside-down method on a tripod, I have worked in portrait orientation and transformed it into a left side-right side test. The four-corner method obviously poses no problem when done on a tripod so that's another option.
Moving the tripod left/right and lining it up properly might be tougher tho...
If the target is sufficiently far away, the lining-up isn't really critical. As long as you get the framing approximately the same, the test works all right.
Plus finding a portrait target with the 12mm that isn't 25% empty sky might take some thinking too, heh.
Well, with the 12 I think you should definitely not fear doing the test hand-held. Not difficult to get to very safe shutter speeds with that lens. Also note what texinwien said: You don't really need detail in all four corners although I find it helpful to have that in order to get as complete a diagnosis as possible.
 
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