Why the concern over a DSLR?

I am wondering why all the fuss over Pentax - or anyone else - making a DSLR version for a digital camera. Why should we go back to lugging large cameras around? The cameras were large in the past due to the mechanics, old arcaic electronics (short of vaccum tubes), and the film chambers. These aren't needed in a DSLR.

This talk seems more of "My camera is bigger than your camera therefore it is better." Larger doesn't equate to better. Film formats shrunk as film got better. Same is holding true for digital cameras. Look at the success of the small megapixel cameras just over the past year. All have shrunk by nearly an inch in size and pixel counts have increased. The larger Oly, Minolta, Nikons are sitting on the shelfs while consumers grab for the smaller ones. I have numerous 35mm cameras and even a large wooden SLR 4x5 inch custom bellows job that must weigh 45 pounds. Would I haul it around? NO WAY!

I have just about retired my large tote bag for the smaller Pentax Optio S. That camera is a fun camera to carry. The Minolta Dimage 7 is nice and impressive, but for the sake of its size I don't carry it much. Not much difference in megapixels and really, the focus of the smaller Pentax is more accurate, faster, and less prone to be off as the larger camera's autofocus.

So someone clue me in as to why Pentax should make a DSLR? They were slow, almost too slow, to enter into the digital arena. They have shown great strides doing so. They did integrate the smaller 35mm SLR (Spotmatic - and I own one of those too) which others copied. So why would they want to make a large (unnecessary) DSLR?

Bent~

Based on the size of the previewed *ist D it will be the smallest
DSLR on the market (even smaller than the Olympus E-1 I think).

Most P&S digital cameras don't go wider than 35mm (35mm equiv).
A few go to 28mm I think. With a full frame DSLR you can get
20mm lens, 18mm lenses, even fisheye lenses. Even with a 1.5 or 1.6x
crop DSLR you can still get wider than most P&S cameras.

The larger CCD or CMOS sensor allows you to blur out the backgrounds.
Great for isolatiing your subject from the background. Hard to do with
a tiny P&S sensor.

The larger sensor also allows usable 800 and 1600 ISO speeds. Combined
with an f1.4 or faster lens you can shoot in very dim light without flash.

So a DSLR doesn't replace a all-in-one camera but has abilities that the
P&S doesn't have. I'd love to have both a *ist D and an Optio S.

Cheers - Greg

Bent Peg said:

I am wondering why all the fuss over Pentax - or anyone else -
making a DSLR version for a digital camera. Why should we go back
to lugging large cameras around? The cameras were large in the
past due to the mechanics, old arcaic electronics (short of vaccum
tubes), and the film chambers. These aren't needed in a DSLR.

This talk seems more of "My camera is bigger than your camera
therefore it is better." Larger doesn't equate to better. Film
formats shrunk as film got better. Same is holding true for
digital cameras. Look at the success of the small megapixel
cameras just over the past year. All have shrunk by nearly an inch
in size and pixel counts have increased. The larger Oly, Minolta,
Nikons are sitting on the shelfs while consumers grab for the
smaller ones. I have numerous 35mm cameras and even a large wooden
SLR 4x5 inch custom bellows job that must weigh 45 pounds. Would I
haul it around? NO WAY!

I have just about retired my large tote bag for the smaller Pentax
Optio S. That camera is a fun camera to carry. The Minolta Dimage
7 is nice and impressive, but for the sake of its size I don't
carry it much. Not much difference in megapixels and really, the
focus of the smaller Pentax is more accurate, faster, and less
prone to be off as the larger camera's autofocus.

So someone clue me in as to why Pentax should make a DSLR? They
were slow, almost too slow, to enter into the digital arena. They
have shown great strides doing so. They did integrate the smaller
35mm SLR (Spotmatic - and I own one of those too) which others
copied. So why would they want to make a large (unnecessary) DSLR?

Bent~

Click to expand...

For the proffessional or semi pro or avid amateur, the DSLR is a must. While the smaller, compact point and shoot digitals have great image quality and are at times much nicer to carry around, they cannot perform at the level pros need in either speed or versatility. And speaking of small size, Pentax owners have never claimed to own the biggest camera, nor do we want to. While I admit, I wish pentax made thier cameras just a little beefier, I am not interested in carrying around the rather large, bulky 10D, despite the fact that it is great camera for the price. I only hope that the IST D can perform at or near the same level. ( and Im sure it will.) I will just have to buy the battery grip so my fingers dont get in the way.

And let's not forget the viewfinders. Although not as nice as the 35mm film versions, they're a lot more helpful in composing your picture.

jwmorris said:

For the proffessional or semi pro or avid amateur, the DSLR is a
must. While the smaller, compact point and shoot digitals have
great image quality and are at times much nicer to carry around,
they cannot perform at the level pros need in either speed or
versatility. And speaking of small size, Pentax owners have never
claimed to own the biggest camera, nor do we want to. While I
admit, I wish pentax made thier cameras just a little beefier, I am
not interested in carrying around the rather large, bulky 10D,
despite the fact that it is great camera for the price. I only
hope that the IST D can perform at or near the same level. ( and Im
sure it will.) I will just have to buy the battery grip so my
fingers dont get in the way.

Click to expand...

--
Nikon Coolpix 4300
http://www.pbase.com/parham

Absolutely. I agree with Greg. Different cameras for different needs. I'm not interested in getting the *istD for everyday snapshot photography, but I also cannot use the Optio S for my Theatre Photography. (Example: Interchangeable lens camera allows me to have a much lower f-stop lens for low lighting situations than any kind of built-in lens system will ever have)

Hopefully, within month or so, I'll have my perfect camera set-up:

In my pocket:
Optio S

In my camera bag:
ZX-5N
*ist-D
Nice set of lenses that works on both.

All I'm missing is the *ist-D, and I can't wait.

• Pete

Greg Erker wrote:
...

Greg Erker said:

So a DSLR doesn't replace a all-in-one camera but has abilities
that the
P&S doesn't have. I'd love to have both a *ist D and an Optio S.

Cheers - Greg

Click to expand...

Bent Peg said:

I am wondering why all the fuss over Pentax - or anyone else -
making a DSLR version for a digital camera. Why should we go back
to lugging large cameras around? The cameras were large in the
past due to the mechanics, old arcaic electronics (short of vaccum
tubes), and the film chambers. These aren't needed in a DSLR.

Click to expand...

The smaller sensors used in consumer digital cameras are noisy. Noise is fine for many photographs, but I find it troubling for many others. Software tools that try to interpolate it away (such as NeatImage) can do a reasonable, but not great, job.

I really like my Sony DSC-F717 except for the noise, and it already uses a larger sensor than most consumer digital cameras, although a much smaller one than D-SLRs.

I also look forward to being able to use a proper wide angle lens once again. In fact that is one big reason why I'm considering an Olympus E-1 instead of the Pentax *ist D. It will come down to what lens mount the *ist D has on it -- if it can't work with M lenses then I'm much more likely to select the E-1.

alex

My dad bought a Pentex SLR in the mid 70's with 4 lens. I took a Photo class and used that camera and loved it. about 10 yrs ago I bought the Pz-70 I like the camera and love the fact that I can use the old lenses on it. My wife and I have been wanting a DSLR but we have a great pentax with 5 lenses and really didn't want to have to buy all new equipment, Of course I'll have to have atleast one new lens Anyway I can't wait for the DSLR to hit the market. I'll still get the quality and functions of a SLR that a P&S can't do, as several of you pointed out. That my few cents..

Chris

Hi Bent, I´ll bite and try my best

Bent Peg said:

I am wondering why all the fuss over Pentax - or anyone else -
making a DSLR version for a digital camera. Why should we go back
to lugging large cameras around? The cameras were large in the
past due to the mechanics, old arcaic electronics (short of vaccum
tubes), and the film chambers. These aren't needed in a DSLR.

Click to expand...

The film chamber will be filled with the sensor and some electronics, as well as more Watt/hours to drive the electronics.

Bent Peg said:

This talk seems more of "My camera is bigger than your camera
therefore it is better." Larger doesn't equate to better. Film
formats shrunk as film got better. Same is holding true for
digital cameras. Look at the success of the small megapixel
cameras just over the past year.

Click to expand...

Yes and no, 35mm is the smallest film size used by professionals since the first Leica, for some types of work 6x4.5cm is considered the smallest usable format. And that's with low grain emulsions developed for the much smaller APS format. APS was never succesfull in more demanding consumer groups, Minox 8x11mm held a niche market once. Pentax had a 110 format SLR once, which wasn't very successfull. I bought a Rollei 35TE then

Bent Peg said:

All have shrunk by nearly an inch
in size and pixel counts have increased. The larger Oly, Minolta,
Nikons are sitting on the shelfs while consumers grab for the
smaller ones.

Click to expand...

They do, but some want something more versatile, with lower DOF, higher ISO with less noise,. I'm one

Bent Peg said:

I have numerous 35mm cameras and even a large wooden
SLR 4x5 inch custom bellows job that must weigh 45 pounds. Would I
haul it around? NO WAY!

Click to expand...

I don't haul around my Linhof Super Technika either, it's great for studio work or on a more permanent location. With film I usualy use different Contax SLRs from pretty hefty to lightweight. Canons 1Ds is around the same size and weight as a Contax RTS III, the Canon 10D is small compared to those.

Bent Peg said:

I have just about retired my large tote bag for the smaller Pentax
Optio S. That camera is a fun camera to carry.

Click to expand...

For traveling I have a Contax G2 with 28, 45 and 90mm lenses, the quality I get is unmatched by digicams of comparable size. The Pentax *istD is not that much bigger and Pentax has some very good lenses. I'm quite certain to get comparable imagequality from the CCD in the Pentax as with slides scanned in my Canon slidescanner with less hassle.

Bent Peg said:

The Minolta Dimage
7 is nice and impressive, but for the sake of its size I don't
carry it much. Not much difference in megapixels and really, the
focus of the smaller Pentax is more accurate, faster, and less
prone to be off as the larger camera's autofocus.

Click to expand...

The Minolta Dimage 7 is pretty slow to focus compared to a Nikon D100 or even a Canon D60! And it is nearly impossible to manual focus current RF digicams.

Bent Peg said:

So someone clue me in as to why Pentax should make a DSLR? They
were slow, almost too slow, to enter into the digital arena. They
have shown great strides doing so. They did integrate the smaller
35mm SLR (Spotmatic - and I own one of those too) which others
copied. So why would they want to make a large (unnecessary) DSLR?

Click to expand...

The *istD is pretty small for a SLR, it's got a bigger viewfinder image than Nikon and Canon prosumer models. As far as I've seen at CeBit it'll have a great metering system and you can put some of the worlds best lenses on it.

I will buy a DSLR around christmas and it'll be either a Canon 10D or a Pentax *istD. I can't use my Carl Zeiss lenses on any DSLR, but Canon as well as Pentax have some very impressive glass.

Ah, and not to forget, I just sold my Canon Powershot G1. Nice camera, but when you have access to Canon D30's and D60's as well as a 1D, you can't go back. If you have the opportunity, try a 70 - 210 L and a 28 - 70 L on a 1D, not all pixels are created equal

Bent Peg said:

Bent~

Click to expand...

Volker

As a Canon D60 shooter, I purchased an Optio S last week. Reason? For quick candid shooting where the D60 DSLR is overkill.

Both will have a place. For instance, get me in the studio and the DSLR is the choice - or on an architectural shoot where I can grab my 14mm to capture the space. Or put on my 300mm that effectively becomes a 480mm lens when I need to pull in a distant object crisply. Or I chose the DSLR when I want to shoot in the RAW format for optimum results.

But when it comes down to "grip and grin" shots, events, etc., nothing beats the convenience and unobtrusive qualities the little Pentax provides!