North Carolina State Tax Becomes a Deal Breaker!

Jerry Canon

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I live in North Carolina and have always delt with Amazon in purchasing my higher end photo items and computer equipment. Up until fairly recently, Amazon did not charge NC customers NC state tax on items but have started doing so. I want to purchase a new Sony 70-200 G lens that runs about $1500 but the tax alone on this is over $100! That hurts. I love dealing with Amazon because of thier generous return policy and prompt honest service, but now with this added on tax, it's becoming less attractive.

Does anyone out there know of another good honest vendor of photo gear that yould carry this lens but will not charge me the NC state tax?
 
Solution
The Constitution provided a loophole that has been assaulted with illegal attempts to close it with Pretzel Logic.

Breaking the law - civil disobedience.

I pay any and all legitimate taxes.

The real hypocrites are those who are not willing to stand their ground against unjust laws.

And finally, are you claiming that you have never purchased an item online or from a catalog and was not charged sales tax? (I think the hypocrite meter is about to peg.)
I bet you also claim to be a religious person.
Irrelevant, and an unprovoked attack on those who are religious.

B&H are probably THE most honest camera sellers to be found, and they are quite religious - which is why they close their business and forego sales $$ while...
Google something like this:

Amazon tax avoidance

For a bit of fun.
No offense intended but this is an American issue. As an American I would have no place in getting into a conversation with Australians about how taxes should get collected in your Australia. Your comments are also going off topic

--
My response to you ends if you resort to trolling and flaming. Criticizing this signature means you are well on the path to doing just that. Accusing me of being a troll means you are doing just that. Stick to the message, not the messenger. Anyone that truly respects what forums are all about will agree.If you decide to get back to the topic then I may once again respond.
 
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The Constitution provided a loophole that has been assaulted with illegal attempts to close it with Pretzel Logic.

Breaking the law - civil disobedience.

I pay any and all legitimate taxes.

The real hypocrites are those who are not willing to stand their ground against unjust laws.

And finally, are you claiming that you have never purchased an item online or from a catalog and was not charged sales tax? (I think the hypocrite meter is about to peg.)
Of course I have ordered merchandise online from vendors did not charge sales tax. However, that does not mean I didn't pay the taxes I owed. When I lived in places that had a state income tax, each tax season I would go into my Amazon account (I buy the great majority of my online goods from Amazon) review each invoice, and add up the grand total of stuff I'd bought for the entire year from which tax had not been withheld. To that I would add the charges for incidental purchases from clothing catalogs and the like. I would then enter the grand total into TurboTax, and let it do its thing. Some years, it resulted in my owing an additional two or three hundred dollars in state taxes.

Thankfully, I moved to GA this summer, and the vast majority of the stuff I ordered did have the GA state sales tax withheld. For those that did not, I went in and added those up, and then input them into TurboTax.
 
You are trying to take the thread off topic.
Not at all. Look at how many responses are blaming the Little Guy for not wanting to pay tax on the lens. Look at how many responses are talking about the 'right thing' to do. That argument can easily transfer to Amazon itself. Nobody questions Amazon for not doing the 'right thing' except me, apparently. They only blame the original poster.

I fail to see how my responses are off-topic. If anything I am illustrating that there are laws for the Corporation that are different to the Little Guy and personally I would be feeling no guilt about avoiding the tax altogether, but others are free to feel differently. They can feel it's their duty to pay the tax and the 'right thing' if they want. I consider it like paying your fat Mafia boss. I would rather get the satisfaction of burning my money myself than pay it to pigs who will waste it on frivolous things (like war and lootnig of foreign lands) and always keep us begging for crumbs to build roads, etc. regardless of how much tax is actually paid. The people running these Corporations definitely feel no duty to you or your community. Gov definitely doesn't (they are only accountable to their sponsors, the corporations). Why should you? Especially when you know it's going to be wasted.
As I said in another post to you, this is an American issue. It's something for Americans to discuss, how taxes are to be collected in their country.
 
The Constitution provided a loophole that has been assaulted with illegal attempts to close it with Pretzel Logic.

Breaking the law - civil disobedience.

I pay any and all legitimate taxes.

The real hypocrites are those who are not willing to stand their ground against unjust laws.

And finally, are you claiming that you have never purchased an item online or from a catalog and was not charged sales tax? (I think the hypocrite meter is about to peg.)
I bet you also claim to be a religious person.
Irrelevant, and an unprovoked attack on those who are religious.

B&H are probably THE most honest camera sellers to be found, and they are quite religious - which is why they close their business and forego sales $$ while observing their religious holidays and traditions.
 
Solution
Sales tax is not imposed on the business, it is imposed on the purchaser. Businesses located in a state that imposes a sales tax on its residents are forced to serve as tax collectors for the state if they want to operate a business in that state. But only the state or states where a business is located or has established nexus can be forced to comply with state laws.

It's the same as if you owned a house in New York and a vacation condo in Florida. You are subject to the relevant laws in both states, but the other 48 states have no authority over you.
As I answered you in another post, online businesses do have a presence in any state, it is simply online.
If 'online presence' does not match the legal definition of 'presence' then the word games don't change a thing.

My understanding has been that if you have any physical facilities in a state, you are a business presence in that state and as such all customers buying from you within that state must be charged the sales tax. If a business is in Ohio with a warehouse or store, and sell to someone from Ohio, they have to charge the sales tax and send it to the state. If they sell to someone from outside that state, they don't have to charge the tax.

I believe that's what Mr. Knepper said in different words.
 
tax that is unjust or illegally collected.
Are you aware that if a vendor does not charge you sales tax you are legally obligated to report that purchase and remit the sales tax to your state?
--
Rick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Mystery Gardner: "Rick, you have a passion for photography but not a position. That's a good thing." Based on 2014 keepers, I shot the following percentages: 5D3=42%, D800=31%, 6D=25% & D3x=2%. Various RAW comparisons at Link below. Includes 5D3 vs D800E (new uploads), 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc. https://app.box.com/s/71w40ita6hrcfghojaie
There is almost no tax collection in Somalia. Or gun control. An ideal place for conservatives!
I hate to see this break down into political arguments which will go no place.

Taxes are justly levied and collected and should be paid. But it is easy to see why some people look for ways to avoid doing so. When you learn that the government at whatever level has taken taxpayer money and thrown it out the window on nonsense, while the poor taxpayer can't afford to get his teeth fixed or send his kid to college, it's hard to blame them for not having the 'cheerful giver' attitude.

Recently it was learned that the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, a 220-member federal agency, has a tradition of spending taxpayer money having oil paintings created of its directors, one of whom was painted with his dog. Last year the department spent $2400 having the current director's painting re-touched. If anyone thinks 'so what, it's not that much money,' try shorting the government a few hundred bucks on your income tax and see what happens.

When the government shows so little respect for the working taxpayer and squanders their hard earned money on trash like this - and this is but one tiny, tiny example out of countless ones - it's hard to blame people for not jumping at the chance to give, give, give at every opportunity.
 
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Sales tax is not imposed on the business, it is imposed on the purchaser. Businesses located in a state that imposes a sales tax on its residents are forced to serve as tax collectors for the state if they want to operate a business in that state. But only the state or states where a business is located or has established nexus can be forced to comply with state laws.

It's the same as if you owned a house in New York and a vacation condo in Florida. You are subject to the relevant laws in both states, but the other 48 states have no authority over you.
As I answered you in another post, online businesses do have a presence in any state, it is simply online.
If 'online presence' does not match the legal definition of 'presence' then the word games don't change a thing.
The problem is the legal definition, as it relates to the definition of the word presence and in collecting taxes, is bogus, and always has been. It's even more bogus in the age of the Internet. By definition of the word presence, a mail order or online business surely is present when engaging in the relevant transactions. Presence does not equal only in a physical sense.
 
If you are that turned off on your country's government, you should consider emigrating to another country whose values are more in line with your own (if such a place exists, which I sincerely doubt).
Well, my goal today was to bring up some issues that are rarely-discussed by those who think more taxes automatically equal better infrastructure and those who think the 'good thing' is paying the tax when in fact I don't think it's a good thing at all to be paying more taxes to parasites because I think they are net destroyer of wealth and opportunity.
Well, Americans have done far better than anyone else in creating wealth and taking advantage of opportunities, even when we had much higher tax rates. I think we'll be just fine. Tend to your own country's tax affairs, or at the very least temper your comments so that they at least show some respect for Americans in how they feel their country's taxes should be collected.
 
I'm sure that I don't need to point out that any profits that Amazon makes stay in Washington and not North Carolina.
Well, the reason they now collect sales tax in North Carolina is that they are now employing people there and thus contributing to the local economy.

If you look at the financials, Amazon's profits are low (when they actually manage to earn a profit), but Amazon now has warehouses all over the country providing employment to many. Not to mention providing much-needed business for the US Postal Service and other carriers.

By the way, Amazon posted a loss of about $250 million last year.
 
You consider it "dishonest" to try to save a buck as I was able to do for years because North Carolina became so greedy and started forcing Amazon to charge NC sales tax??
 
Google something like this:

Amazon tax avoidance

For a bit of fun.
No offense intended but this is an American issue. As an American I would have no place in getting into a conversation with Australians about how taxes should get collected in your Australia. Your comments are also going off topic
Amazon runs an Australian website www.amazon.com.au and it has collected foreign taxes to expand and used foreign loopholes to avoid paying taxes and repatriating its profits. Even if it didn't I can discuss any USA-based company I want without your permission.

My taxes go to supporting invasion of foreign lands when the USA - our best buddy - says so. We're all connected. We all pay the crooks in one way or another. And I bet some of my money has gone Amazon's way already, toally without my permission or say-so, in this un-level playing field we like to call Government Sweetheart deals.

Again, I don't need your permission to discuss US-based corporation or US gov for that matter. Anyone that's offended by my comments (which are true and hardly meant to offend) needs to check themselves. My comments aren't even remotely off-topic. This is all about tax collection; you can't discuss tax collection of the customer without discussing where the customer shops (amazon) and its own penchant for avoiding all the taxes it can.
 
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Your tax buys stuff you use -- probably take for granted. Paying $100 on $1500 luxury purchase? Big deal.
 
I live in North Carolina and have always delt with Amazon in purchasing my higher end photo items and computer equipment. Up until fairly recently, Amazon did not charge NC customers NC state tax on items but have started doing so. I want to purchase a new Sony 70-200 G lens that runs about $1500 but the tax alone on this is over $100! That hurts. I love dealing with Amazon because of thier generous return policy and prompt honest service, but now with this added on tax, it's becoming less attractive.

Does anyone out there know of another good honest vendor of photo gear that yould carry this lens but will not charge me the NC state tax?
 
Google something like this:

Amazon tax avoidance

For a bit of fun.
No offense intended but this is an American issue. As an American I would have no place in getting into a conversation with Australians about how taxes should get collected in your Australia. Your comments are also going off topic
Amazon runs an Australian website www.amazon.com.au and it has collected foreign taxes to expand and used foreign loopholes to avoid paying taxes and repatriating its profits. Even if it didn't I can discuss any USA-based company I want without your permission.
Of course you don't need my permission to discuss whatever you like. That said, you are commenting on how the people of another country should collect *their taxes* in *their country* as if somehow you should have a say in the matter. That's quite arrogant and disrespectful.

What Amazon does *in your country* is another matter, and of course would rightly concern you.
My taxes go to supporting invasion of foreign lands when the USA - our best buddy - says so.
Australia is a free and sovereign nation so it can make its own decisions. That's an issue you need to bring up with your government.
We're all connected.
Not in this case. How America collects its domestic taxes has zero to do with you or your country.
We all pay the crooks in one way or another. And I bet some of my money has gone Amazon's way already, toally without my permission or say-so, in this un-level playing field we like to call Government Sweetheart deals.
A matter that you should take up with your government.
Again, I don't need your permission to discuss US-based corporation or US gov for that matter. Anyone that's offended by my comments (which are true and hardly meant to offend) needs to check themselves.
Anyone in any free and democratic country would be rightly offended when foreigners try to tell them how to run their country on matters that have nothing to do with them or their country.
My comments aren't even remotely off-topic. This is all about tax collection; you can't discuss tax collection of the customer without discussing where the customer shops (amazon) and its own penchant for avoiding all the taxes it can.
It is going off-topic when you start focusing on corporations and governments being crooks.
 
It's long overdue that mail/online order get taxed like any other business. I look forward to it taking place uniformly across America. It will eliminate an unfair advantage online retailers have over local brick and mortar stores.
Yes, it would narrow the price gap a bit, but it won't cause Ritz Camera to rise from the dead like Lazarus, and it won't save your neighborhood small camera shop. If you still have one.

"Sales tax" is just one advantage that online vendors have over B&M stores. There are so many others that they would still have a big advantage over small local stores. If you take away this advantage for the online seller, then how will get rid of all these others:
  • much larger selection
  • much more convenient
  • virtually anything made is available, and shipping is fast
  • higher volume, which means lower pricing
  • greater leverage with wholesalers, which means lower pricing
  • no sales force, just packers and shippers
  • no cashiers or check out personnel required
  • no shoplifting costs, no security guard or package checking needed
  • much lower payroll costs
  • zero showroom maintenance costs
  • no need to waste time with browsers
  • no big stores to build or rent, just warehouse space
  • automated order taking online 24/7 (except perhaps, Jewish holidays!) :-)
  • fewer returns, since it becomes less convenient to ship back
  • customer doesn't have to pay for gas or tolls to get there
  • customer doesn't have to "find a parking spot"
  • customer doesn't have to pay for parking in congested cities
If you think the above aren't significant advantages for online sellers, then you are wrong. I remember visiting B&H a few years ago, to buy a bottle of a solution for cleaning slides before scanning. I think it cost $13. I was there less than 30 minutes, but their parking garage across the street charged me $40 for parking, because you only get your parking ticket validated for free parking if you spend $200 or more! Anyone who has ever been to their store knows there is absolutely no street parking in the vicinity. Lesson learned. Next time order it online.

One of my daughters actually works for Amazon in Seattle as a financial analyst. They actually let her bring her dog to work with her! This might sound silly, but it actually works for Amazon. Needless to say, their employees love this, and it means they can pay less, or perhaps retain employees longer. Once you get used to certain benefits you cannot imagine not having them.

Brick and mortar stores have their own advantages, but it really is questionable whether these are truly advantages or just added costs for them:
  • salesmen can push goods (only works if they are good at it)
  • salesman can upsell (only works with customers who don't know what they want)
  • salesmen can provide useful information for customers (if they are smart)
  • customers get to handle your goods and create open box items
  • customers, especially impulse buyers, get instant gratification
Forcing online vendors to become tax collectors for all 50 states does take away one of their advantages over brick and mortar stores. But there still are plenty of other advantages left for them that will result in all but the biggest and most successful retailers eventually closing their doors.

The brick and mortar camera shop is going to disappear just like the small book store, the the shoe repair shop, the neighborhood bakery, your local travel agent, and full service gas stations.

Quaint, convenient, and nice to have, but unable to compete for a wide variety of reasons.
 
You are off topic and out of line.
Just to summarise. I am out-of-line for suggesting that:

out-of-line. Everything relates to tax here. Everything.
I say you are out of line because you, as a non-American, are aggresively getting into a conversation that pertains to Americans only.
I linked earlier to a video showing how Amazon operates overseas an how it has collected foreign taxes from foreign nations using foreign people's money to fund the construction of a fulfilment center (warehouse). If you still think Amazon's activities pertain to "American's only" then you are mistaken. They are a multi-national and they collect taxes worldwide and avoid paying them worldwide. At great loss to the local businesses where they operate.

As for aggressiveness, that is down to your interpretation. I thought I was just stating some simple facts about Amazon avoiding all the taxes it can, both foreign and domestic. Just like any other corporation does. As I said earlier, substitute Amazon, GE, Apple, Starbucks or any of your local businesses in the country you happen to live in. It's always the same: pay as little tax as you can get away with. Search for loopholes and avoid it as much as you can.

And yet people still go on sticking it to the Little Guy as if he's the biggest crook. If we are discussing the Little Guy well then I think it's more than fair game to discuss the Big Guy especially when the Big Guy steals taxes from the Little Guy, both foreign and domestic, to fund its expansion and take jobs away from wherever country it decides to do business in. Again, that should have been clear from my linked documentary and articles too.

To re-iterate: Amazon's activities don't just affect Americans or apply to "Americans only". And even if they did I have full freedom to discuss any company I want. I don't need your permission to discuss it. Your interpretation of my "aggressiveness" is your own issue.
 
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Tax and paying tax are issues we all share in our different countries. You might say this case is a North Carolina issue only because the tax the OP is protesting against is a state tax.

Has anyone raised the "Render under Caesar that which is Caeser's and Render nto God, etc."

That is about a situation in two other countries 2000 years ago, but it is commonly used throughout the western world to justify people being required to obey tax laws. Is it irrelevant in this case?
 

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