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Is there a camera that can take a photo of this subject and properly expose it in auto mode?

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philmar

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While I was taking a photo of my cute pet I was being laughed at by a few friends because I took the time to compensate for the scene.

Here's the photo:

https://flic.kr/p/qQERFp

Stereotypical exposure problem: a white subject on a white background. Though I shoot RAW, I still compensated by 2 f stops. When I tried to explain this to my less photo savvy friends they laughed that I had to do that with my expensive DSLR. They said they would have got a perfect shot with their point and shoot cameras.

I assured them that their light meters would have been fooled by the scene and would have created an underexposed grey jpg. they were adamant that they could have (at least one of them was).

Are there cameras out there that can detect a uniform background of snow and properly expose it?
 
philmar said:
Are there cameras out there that can detect a uniform background of snow and properly expose it?
Click to expand...
Assuming you mean using an automatic mode, then many point & shoot cameras have a snow or beach scene mode which add exposure compensation. It's just that novice's don't know what that means. However, in the spirit of the question, assuming simply using the little green auto mode and no other scene modes, then the answer is no: there isn't a properly functioning camera that will interpret that scene's expsoure correctly (assuming correct exposure means middle gray).

The problem isn't with what you know. The problem is the various variables and what your friend's don't know. One example, most computer monitors are way too bright for image viewing (assuming prints). Your friends image looks ok on his monitor. How does it look on yours?
 
philmar said:
While I was taking a photo of my cute pet I was being laughed at by a few friends because I took the time to compensate for the scene.

Here's the photo:

https://flic.kr/p/qQERFp

Stereotypical exposure problem: a white subject on a white background. Though I shoot RAW, I still compensated by 2 f stops. When I tried to explain this to my less photo savvy friends they laughed that I had to do that with my expensive DSLR. They said they would have got a perfect shot with their point and shoot cameras.

I assured them that their light meters would have been fooled by the scene and would have created an underexposed grey jpg. they were adamant that they could have (at least one of them was).

Are there cameras out there that can detect a uniform background of snow and properly expose it?
Click to expand...
 
You already know the answer; they just don't understand. I'd suggest that something like a shot of a white dog in the snow would be dismissed as "There can't have been enough light, but that doesn't seem right".

I have some friends who use P&S cameras for their overseas holidays, and they are adamant that they want the cameras set to "fully automatic". The cameras are quite good quality and have an EC dial and good emulation on the LCD, but I simply cannot interest them in EC or, heaven forbid, setting exposure and recomposing.

They acknowledge that about 40% of their shots are wasted because "the sky is too bright", but are still unwilling to do anything about it. They certainly spend enough time peering at the LCD while framing their shots, and it seems a pity to under-expose so often.

A certain percentage of shots is also lost due to poor shutter-button technique, but any explanation of 2-stages is met with a blank look and: "It's just a button". One of these friends says that she has been a photographer for 40 years. Sad.
 
Last edited:
philmar said:
While I was taking a photo of my cute pet I was being laughed at by a few friends because I took the time to compensate for the scene.

Here's the photo:

https://flic.kr/p/qQERFp

Stereotypical exposure problem: a white subject on a white background. Though I shoot RAW, I still compensated by 2 f stops. When I tried to explain this to my less photo savvy friends they laughed that I had to do that with my expensive DSLR. They said they would have got a perfect shot with their point and shoot cameras.

I assured them that their light meters would have been fooled by the scene and would have created an underexposed grey jpg. they were adamant that they could have (at least one of them was).

Are there cameras out there that can detect a uniform background of snow and properly expose it?
Click to expand...
 
Nikon has something like this but I doubt that it will not be slightly underexposed. It has a color enabled metering. Though with Nikon D40 it severely overexpose and with D5100 will underexpose. My D90 will be in between (more on the hot side).

You have awesome photos and very good photographic knowledge. You know that a good photo is more than press a button in the "Award Winning Photo" mode. Ignorance is direct proportional with bragging. Because they are ignorant about the causes they think the camera will do the photo for them.

PS: I liked very much your photos. And you used the "antediluvian" camera.
 
Camera meters in evaluative modes aren't nearly so simple any more, but there wasn't really much there for the camera to evaluate and switch to a snow/beach mode.

It would be interesting to see how an evaluative meter would fair.
 
Shooting a white dog in snow is tough. And, seriously, they were ragging you for liking photography and taking a moment or two to get a decent shot? You might need to consider different friends.

Or maybe I just have mine well trained!

Also, nice shot of the very cute dog.
 
philmar said:
While I was taking a photo of my cute pet I was being laughed at by a few friends because I took the time to compensate for the scene.

Here's the photo:

https://flic.kr/p/qQERFp

Stereotypical exposure problem: a white subject on a white background. Though I shoot RAW, I still compensated by 2 f stops. When I tried to explain this to my less photo savvy friends they laughed that I had to do that with my expensive DSLR. They said they would have got a perfect shot with their point and shoot cameras.

I assured them that their light meters would have been fooled by the scene and would have created an underexposed grey jpg. they were adamant that they could have (at least one of them was).

Are there cameras out there that can detect a uniform background of snow and properly expose it?
Click to expand...
 
Well they could be sort of right. Modern compacts etc have built in brains and automated photoshop type stuff . Where as your dslr is dumb. To my mind and seems yours it's a so what thing . You use a dslr because you want to control the result with good IQ . Not have a camera decide for you.
 
yardcoyote said:
Shooting a white dog in snow is tough. And, seriously, they were ragging you for liking photography and taking a moment or two to get a decent shot? You might need to consider different friends.
Click to expand...
That is my suggestion too. Find new friends that either are more knowledgeable or more polite.
 
labe said:
Well they could be sort of right. Modern compacts etc have built in brains and automated photoshop type stuff . Where as your dslr is dumb.
Click to expand...
Actually, it's the other way around. The modern compact P&S cameras are dumb, because they don't have a powerful enough processor to do anything smart. In contrast, a dSLR is powerful and can utilize algorithms that would gag a little P&S.

But no camera does "Photoshop type stuff"! LOL
 
Guess with mirrorless and compact cameras since the image is always directed to the sensor some more complex evaluation of the scene could be performed. But still I feel that with cameras still being relatively dumb in comparison to us, it's still a bit of guess work on the camera's behalf.
 
You are right and your friends are wrong.

However, if you shoot raw, a grey snow shot can easily be brightened in Photoshop, Lightroom or whatever to give white snow. So all is not lost if you are in a hurry and don't have time to set compensation.

Even JPGs can usually be adjusted more than people think. What you cannot do with a JPG is recover burned out highlights.

Good photos, especially the pigeon on the door frame.
 
philmar said:
While I was taking a photo of my cute pet I was being laughed at by a few friends because I took the time to compensate for the scene.

Here's the photo:

https://flic.kr/p/qQERFp

Stereotypical exposure problem: a white subject on a white background. Though I shoot RAW, I still compensated by 2 f stops. When I tried to explain this to my less photo savvy friends they laughed that I had to do that with my expensive DSLR. They said they would have got a perfect shot with their point and shoot cameras.

I assured them that their light meters would have been fooled by the scene and would have created an underexposed grey jpg. they were adamant that they could have (at least one of them was).

Are there cameras out there that can detect a uniform background of snow and properly expose it?
Click to expand...
 
philmar said:
While I was taking a photo of my cute pet I was being laughed at by a few friends because I took the time to compensate for the scene.

Here's the photo:

https://flic.kr/p/qQERFp

Stereotypical exposure problem: a white subject on a white background. Though I shoot RAW, I still compensated by 2 f stops. When I tried to explain this to my less photo savvy friends they laughed that I had to do that with my expensive DSLR. They said they would have got a perfect shot with their point and shoot cameras.

I assured them that their light meters would have been fooled by the scene and would have created an underexposed grey jpg. they were adamant that they could have (at least one of them was).

Are there cameras out there that can detect a uniform background of snow and properly expose it?
Click to expand...
 
Others above have hinted at some cameras which have 'scene' modes that include a snow setting, adjusting white balance and exposure to account for all-white scenes...but that the camera would have to be set to these scene modes in order to use them, making 'auto' mode not technically capable of making the adjustment.

However, many newer cameras have TWO auto modes - the standard 'green box' auto, and a newer 'iAuto' mode - in these iAuto modes, the camera can not only choose all of the camera's settings parameters, but also automatically access any of the camera's scene modes when it detects the scene being shot - candlelight, beach, snow, etc can actually be detected and scene mode chosen. They can even automatically engage multistacking frame modes, HDR stacking modes, and more, all automatically. Moreover, this isn't limited to only P&S cameras with tiny sensors - some large-sensor P&S cameras, mirrorless cameras, and even DSLRs have access to these modes.

That of course doesn't address that not every photographer is going to have the skill to properly frame the scene, compose well, or recognize if the camera is choosing the wrong mode and compensate for it. Your shot is well done, and you show that you have the knowledge to shoot such a scene without the camera making decisions for you.

I personally NEVER use auto modes - they drive me nuts as I'd rather have the control. But I can say I've seen the iAuto mode at work and they really are getting surprisingly good at compensating for lack of photography knowledge and skill. I gave an RX10 camera to my stepfather as he travels the world, and is not really a 'photographer' - I set his camera to iAuto mode, and usually help him download his photos to send to the printer (he doesn't even use a computer to look at the shots). When I review his shots, I'm often quite surprised how good the camera was at figuring out the scene - in the EXIF I can see the scene mode that iAuto selected - shots of a beach are in Beach mode, night shots are in Night scene mode, snowy shots are in snow mode, and all are correctly exposed. It doesn't always make for a great photo - sometimes his compositions are uninspiring, sometimes horizons are tilted, undesirable things are in the frame, posts grow out of people's heads, and so on...and occasionally, the scene mode gets it wrong. But more often than not, the iAuto mode has utilized the scene modes well and compensated for a scene that he otherwise would have had no idea how to shoot.
 
So even if a camera has a "Scene Mode"
1) You recognize the need
2) Change a camera setting (turn on scene mode)
3) Review the result and maybe check the histogram

With a DSLR or enthusiast camera, you can compensate exposure, check the result, and then apply more correction if needed. With Scene Mode, if the correction doesn't work, you're out of luck.

It sounds to me that the OP did exactly the right thing and got great results. Withore practice, he or she can do the same thing much faster. After all, in photography, we learn how to apply what we see around us, in a viewfinder, in a histogram, all into a forecast of what the final image will look like on a display or printout.
 
MarshallG said:
So even if a camera has a "Scene Mode"
1) You recognize the need
2) Change a camera setting (turn on scene mode)
3) Review the result and maybe check the histogram
Click to expand...
I don't think you understood what I was saying about the 'iAuto' or 'Intelligent' auto modes on newer cameras. The camera has the ability, based on various aspects of the scene being framed, to actually choose its own scene modes without user input. If, for example, you are at a beach, the camera will switch automatically to beach scene mode. If you are taking a photo of a snowy scene, the camera switches automatically to 'snow' scene mode. Taking a photo of a person standing in front of a city scape across the water at night, the camera automatically chooses 'night portrait mode' popping up the flash and choosing a long exposure with slow-sync, and so on.

I only know about this because I've seen the EXIF on the shots where the camera chose the corresponding scene mode all by itself - shots of my stepfather's friends at a dinner table, shots from a sunny beach, nighttime photos, interiors of churches where HDR was picked to compensate for outside lighting, dark night photos where multistack modes were chosen taking 6 frames at high ISO and stacking, and so on. My stepfather's camera stayed in intelligent Auto mode the entire time, and switched to scene and multistack modes all by itself.

MarshallG said:
With a DSLR or enthusiast camera, you can compensate exposure, check the result, and then apply more correction if needed. With Scene Mode, if the correction doesn't work, you're out of luck.

It sounds to me that the OP did exactly the right thing and got great results.
Click to expand...
Unquestionably. The OP is a skilled and knowledgeable photographer. Personally, I'd have done the same - I don't use auto mode. But the answer to the question he had, whether there was such a thing as a camera that would automatically know to compensate for an all-white snow scene without any knowledge or input from the photographer, is yes.
 
I think you did something wrong. Your snow is not blue, as it's supposed to be.

:)

Your photos are great!

People make fun of me too, when I take the time to compose my shots and fiddle with settings to try one thing, then change them to get another effect. By that time they've snapped 5 pictures with their iphones and posted them on Facebook.

I recently heard a professional street photographer say that if you end up with two or three "keepers" a month you're doing good.
 
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