Sony lens rant, and comparison to Samsung

MFT is no go for me. Double the F stops for FF equivalency. 40 F/4 for $800 is pretty ridiculous IMO.
It's a 20mm f1.7 which makes it a 40mm f3.4. Besides for 800 bucks can buy 2 of them with filters and a optional hood. Then a fullframe body doesn't come cheap.

And it's faster then the recent canon prime for apsc bodies. Even when taking the sensor size into account.(24mm f2.8)
The 16mp Nikon d4s shoots amazing photo's.

Stop posting these complete nonsense posts. None of your points make any sense whatsoever.
 
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Sony seems to currently believe that the market for the E mount system is for people who wish to have a smaller, lighter camera. And they aren't trying to build large heavy lenses for them.

With them developing the FF E mount, I find it interesting they still cling to this strategy. But they do.

If you want a Sony F2.8 lens, they have many, and they are very good, but they are all (I believe) A mount lenses. They are larger and heavier than any of the E mount counterparts. But if you insist, they have an adapter available.

Samsung offers these larger, heavier faster lenses on the NX-1 mount for their mirrorless because, I imagine, it's the only mount they make and they feel the need to have that lens to have there products considered in the market space that demands that being offered (whereas Sony can state that's why the A mount is available). And there doesn't seem to be much third party interest in making lenses for the Samsung either. (there are few third party E mount lenses, but Samyang, Sigma and Tamron have all produced at least one)

I have a Sony NEX, and I find myself most often using the 20mm f2.8 lens on it. I would rarely use such a wide field of view / focal length on another camera, but that's the smallest lens available for it, so that's what I use with it. With my DSLR I usually find myself using 35-70mm focal length, 50mm prime is very useful for me, and I shoot a lot of photos with aperture larger than F4, probably over 60%.
 
MFT is no go for me. Double the F stops for FF equivalency. 40 F/4 for $800 is pretty ridiculous IMO.
It's a 20mm f1.7 which makes it a 40mm f3.4. Besides for 800 bucks can buy 2 of them with filters and a optional hood.
True. But I consider a lowly 24-85VR to be a five m43 primes in one. ;)
Then a fullframe body doesn't come cheap.
lightly used D600 and 6D are very cheap these days.
The 16mp Nikon d4s shoots amazing photo's.

Stop posting these complete nonsense posts. None of your points make any sense whatsoever.
I agree with that.
 
MFT is no go for me. Double the F stops for FF equivalency. 40 F/4 for $800 is pretty ridiculous IMO.
It's a 20mm f1.7 which makes it a 40mm f3.4. Besides for 800 bucks can buy 2 of them with filters and a optional hood.
True. But I consider a lowly 24-85VR to be a five m43 primes in one. ;)
I have that lens and the D600. You are 100% wrong.
Can you post some comparison test shots?
 
MFT is no go for me. Double the F stops for FF equivalency. 40 F/4 for $800 is pretty ridiculous IMO.
It's a 20mm f1.7 which makes it a 40mm f3.4. Besides for 800 bucks can buy 2 of them with filters and a optional hood.
True. But I consider a lowly 24-85VR to be a five m43 primes in one. ;)
I have that lens and the D600. You are 100% wrong.
Funny that, I got the same setup. Why dont we hold hands?

And I say you are 50% right to say that I was 100% wrong, the 24-85 in fact like Eight (if we count two versions of 20/1.7 as one and discount the oly 15/8) M43 primes in one.

Olympus Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12mm f/2.0

Olympus Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm f/2.8

Olympus Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm f/1.8

Olympus Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 25 mm f/1.8

Olympus Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 45mm f/1.8

Panasonic Panasonic Lumix G 14mm f/2.5 Asph.

Panasonic Panasonic Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 Asph.

Panasonic Panasonic Lumix G 20mm f/1.7 Asph.
 
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277e73e668d5427697d620034f47c287.jpg

Camera's love means sharing the lenses, the flashes, etc.
 
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This is one of the most moronic posts I have seen in a while. By the way, the only 16-50 F2.8 Sony makes is also an apsc lens (and not an optically great one at that),
B/w why do you say the Sony 1650 is not optically good?
I did understand that quip either. The 1650/2.8 is an outstanding lens (indeed, "optically great"), and recognizing that as a fact does not impact or denigrate any other lens or any person who did not decide to buy it.
The 1650/2.8 may well be the best mid-range zoom for APS-C cameras there is (not sure about Fuji). Is that why you say it is "optically great"? However, it's MTF chart and other optical characterisitics are decidedly worse than many other lenses that are not APS-C midrange zooms. That could be a reason to suggest it isn't great.

APS-C mid-range zooms are a collection of optical compromises. I don't consider any of them great. The Sony is just better then the Nikon or Canon APS-C offerings.

However, the Sony is not as good overall as the Nikon FF midrange zoom which itself is nowhere near as good as the Canon. I'd call the Canon 24-70 f/2.8 "optically great". The Nikon less so, and the Sony is below that.
 
What people dont realize is, f4 is used in 99% of situations (at least for me).
You're right. I didn't realize that you shoot f/4 in 99% of situations. It never occurred to me to consider what you shoot.
Check your files and see what things you shoot in 2.8.
OK. I just checked Lightroom. 7,000 out of 12,000 shots taken with my D7000 are at f/2.8 or faster. And another 1000 were taken wide open on slower lenses.

- Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
That's funny as even a cursory perusal of you smugmug page reveals mostly images with the lens properly stopped down - which is as it should be ;-)
 
I find the BH Photo Video site really useful to researching lens availability for systems. I recently did a comparison of Sony to Samsung. In particular, I was interested in high-end zoom lenses available for Sony E-mount and Samsung NX mount. I use a Sony A6000, but have been thinking of fooling around with the NX system. I do have major GAS, and yes I do think sometimes that getting new camera gear is almost (if not more) fun than taking photos. That being said, I do not like camera gear unless they can also take great photos (fortunately, most cameras these days are more than capable)!

I do not agree with the philosophy that lenses are more important than the camera (sensor) - rather I believe that the camera and lenses are equally important in forming the picture. The notion of lenses being more important than the body probably carried over from film, because in the old days, whatever camera you used, you recorded to film (e.g. 35mm). The camera did exposure metering, focusing, etc... but ultimately the quality depended on the lens and the film you used. Hence, the idea that you wanted great lens and high quality film but not necessarily the best camera. In digital, the sensor is your film, so saying that the camera is less important than the lens is like saying film quality is less important than lens quality.

Back to the point though, I wanted to know which system had a better lens selection.

By limiting to only zoom lenses, f/2.8 or faster, e-mount (full frame and APS-C) vs NX-mount, the results were eye-opening. Sony has a grand total of zero lenses in this category (if you exclude the 70-200mm f/4 which was somehow misclassified as being f/2.8 or faster on the site), whereas the Samsung has 2, and one of them is a 16-50mm f/2-2.8, something not even Canon has in its system. What's more the prices of the Samsung lenses are a bargain compared to Sony's - the two fast zooms go for $1600 and $1100; Sony's f/4 zoom goes for $1500. If you are into primes, the two systems are closer in comparison, although Samsung does have an 85mm f/1.4 for around $700 which is an absolute bargain.

Most reviewers pan Samsung as not being quite ready for prime-time, which heaping lavish praise on Sony's offerings, particularly the A6000 and A7 series. But I wonder if this difference in critical opinion is warranted. Frankly, unless I am missing something, I'd rather have an NX300 with a 16-50mm f/2-2.8 and a 50-150mm f/2.8 vs a Sony A6000 with a 70-200mm f/4 and a 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6, even with the superiority of the A6000 vs NX300 factored in.
just buy a LA-EA4 adapter and put the Sony a-mount 16-50mm/2.8 and sigma 50-150mm/2.8 on your A6000. And no it will not be much bulkier than the samsung alternative you suggested plus you will have better PDAF!

apart from the NX1, the rest of the samsung bodies aren't on same level as Sony (you said yourself body/sensor is as important as lens). You are looking at 2-3 lenses but instead I suggest you look at the whole picture. Sony has a larger amount of native lenses and not to mention huge amount of adaptable lenses (even just for MF lenses Samsung don't have the same adaptability).

Sony's reasoning is if you want to use bulky lenses there are option already on a-mount you can adapt with full PDAF. Compared to size of the lenses you will be adapting the bulk of adapter is barely even noticeable infact it actually helps the balance. Plus you can add a grip to your A6000 to make the balance a lot better. So now you have options like 70-300mm, 70-400mm, even tamron 150-600mm *with PDAF* where are such options on samsung? beyond the initial 2-3 nice zoom lenses you basically have no such options on any other mirrorless. Even on the wide angle front you can adapt the best UWA lenses like nikon 14-24mm or canon TSE lenses for with AF isn't that important. And you also have the lighter option of using rangefinder lenses.

So thinking Samsung is better for lenses is just short sighted imo.

But if you are convinced they are better, no one is stopping you from swapping. Its your money at end of the day ;)

--
Focus on what you have, not on what you don't.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nandbytes/
 
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OK. I just checked Lightroom. 7,000 out of 12,000 shots taken with my D7000 are at f/2.8 or faster. And another 1000 were taken wide open on slower lenses.
That's funny as even a cursory perusal of you smugmug page reveals mostly images with the lens properly stopped down - which is as it should be ;-)
That is an amusing observation ! I haven't done a great job flagging photos in Lightroom as favorites, but one thing I try to do when making any major decisions about gear is to not only see how I shoot in total, but how I shoot the things I love to shoot. I have noticed, on a couple occasions (and been surprised, too) that many of my favorites are not shallow DOF shots.

Most of my photographs are of friends and family, or schoolmates of my daughters, and I get high quantities of photos from events like school plays and dance recitals and the like. And a lot of that is on smugmug, but in hidden galleries (and the school ones are password-protected).

I think it something to keep in mind, though - as much as I feel the 'need' for fast lenses for shallow DOF and low light, that's primarily for certain types of photography, and not something I necessarily need in a travel camera or a day to day camera (I know when I'm going to need a fast lens).

- Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
Does using the A to E mount adapter affect either AF speed or IQ in any way? I know with some other adapters (e.g. metabones), the adapters decrease AF speed to barely usable. I assume Sony's native adapters are better than that, but I still wonder about how an A mount lens plus adapter would perform compared to a native E lens.
I find the BH Photo Video site really useful to researching lens availability for systems. I recently did a comparison of Sony to Samsung. In particular, I was interested in high-end zoom lenses available for Sony E-mount and Samsung NX mount. I use a Sony A6000, but have been thinking of fooling around with the NX system. I do have major GAS, and yes I do think sometimes that getting new camera gear is almost (if not more) fun than taking photos. That being said, I do not like camera gear unless they can also take great photos (fortunately, most cameras these days are more than capable)!

I do not agree with the philosophy that lenses are more important than the camera (sensor) - rather I believe that the camera and lenses are equally important in forming the picture. The notion of lenses being more important than the body probably carried over from film, because in the old days, whatever camera you used, you recorded to film (e.g. 35mm). The camera did exposure metering, focusing, etc... but ultimately the quality depended on the lens and the film you used. Hence, the idea that you wanted great lens and high quality film but not necessarily the best camera. In digital, the sensor is your film, so saying that the camera is less important than the lens is like saying film quality is less important than lens quality.

Back to the point though, I wanted to know which system had a better lens selection.

By limiting to only zoom lenses, f/2.8 or faster, e-mount (full frame and APS-C) vs NX-mount, the results were eye-opening. Sony has a grand total of zero lenses in this category (if you exclude the 70-200mm f/4 which was somehow misclassified as being f/2.8 or faster on the site), whereas the Samsung has 2, and one of them is a 16-50mm f/2-2.8, something not even Canon has in its system. What's more the prices of the Samsung lenses are a bargain compared to Sony's - the two fast zooms go for $1600 and $1100; Sony's f/4 zoom goes for $1500. If you are into primes, the two systems are closer in comparison, although Samsung does have an 85mm f/1.4 for around $700 which is an absolute bargain.

Most reviewers pan Samsung as not being quite ready for prime-time, which heaping lavish praise on Sony's offerings, particularly the A6000 and A7 series. But I wonder if this difference in critical opinion is warranted. Frankly, unless I am missing something, I'd rather have an NX300 with a 16-50mm f/2-2.8 and a 50-150mm f/2.8 vs a Sony A6000 with a 70-200mm f/4 and a 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6, even with the superiority of the A6000 vs NX300 factored in.
just buy a LA-EA4 adapter and put the Sony a-mount 16-50mm/2.8 and sigma 50-150mm/2.8 on your A6000. And no it will not be much bulkier than the samsung alternative you suggested plus you will have better PDAF!

apart from the NX1, the rest of the samsung bodies aren't on same level as Sony (you said yourself body/sensor is as important as lens). You are looking at 2-3 lenses but instead I suggest you look at the whole picture. Sony has a larger amount of native lenses and not to mention huge amount of adaptable lenses (even just for MF lenses Samsung don't have the same adaptability).

Sony's reasoning is if you want to use bulky lenses there are option already on a-mount you can adapt with full PDAF. Compared to size of the lenses you will be adapting the bulk of adapter is barely even noticeable infact it actually helps the balance. Plus you can add a grip to your A6000 to make the balance a lot better. So now you have options like 70-300mm, 70-400mm, even tamron 150-600mm *with PDAF* where are such options on samsung? beyond the initial 2-3 nice zoom lenses you basically have no such options on any other mirrorless. Even on the wide angle front you can adapt the best UWA lenses like nikon 14-24mm or canon TSE lenses for with AF isn't that important. And you also have the lighter option of using rangefinder lenses.

So thinking Samsung is better for lenses is just short sighted imo.

But if you are convinced they are better, no one is stopping you from swapping. Its your money at end of the day ;)

--
Focus on what you have, not on what you don't.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nandbytes/
 
MFT is no go for me. Double the F stops for FF equivalency. 40 F/4 for $800 is pretty ridiculous IMO.
It's a 20mm f1.7 which makes it a 40mm f3.4. Besides for 800 bucks can buy 2 of them with filters and a optional hood.
True. But I consider a lowly 24-85VR to be a five m43 primes in one. ;)
I have that lens and the D600. You are 100% wrong.
Can you post some comparison test shots?
The GM1 and many of those lenses are smaller than the 24-85mm lens by itself. Any newbie will also tell you F/3.4 is less than F/3.5 (and the zoom is about F/4 @ 40mm).
 
Does using the A to E mount adapter affect either AF speed
I am taking about the Sony LA-EA2/4 adapter.

Like I said in my replies it gives you PDAF. Which is better than most mirrorless AF around the same level as A6000 with a smaller frame coverage. Certainly better than any Samsung body apart from NX1.

I imagine in future Sony will incorporate the AF module in A77ii into their adapters (otherwise why would they have spent the money developing it and updating it). If we get that the AF will be on the level of other DSLRs like D7100/750 or 7D
nandbytes, post: 55180760, member: 1263475"]
MinAZ, post: 55180760, member: 1263475"]
I find the BH Photo Video site really useful to researching lens availability for systems. I recently did a comparison of Sony to Samsung. In particular, I was interested in high-end zoom lenses available for Sony E-mount and Samsung NX mount. I use a Sony A6000, but have been thinking of fooling around with the NX system. I do have major GAS, and yes I do think sometimes that getting new camera gear is almost (if not more) fun than taking photos. That being said, I do not like camera gear unless they can also take great photos (fortunately, most cameras these days are more than capable)!

I do not agree with the philosophy that lenses are more important than the camera (sensor) - rather I believe that the camera and lenses are equally important in forming the picture. The notion of lenses being more important than the body probably carried over from film, because in the old days, whatever camera you used, you recorded to film (e.g. 35mm). The camera did exposure metering, focusing, etc... but ultimately the quality depended on the lens and the film you used. Hence, the idea that you wanted great lens and high quality film but not necessarily the best camera. In digital, the sensor is your film, so saying that the camera is less important than the lens is like saying film quality is less important than lens quality.

Back to the point though, I wanted to know which system had a better lens selection.

By limiting to only zoom lenses, f/2.8 or faster, e-mount (full frame and APS-C) vs NX-mount, the results were eye-opening. Sony has a grand total of zero lenses in this category (if you exclude the 70-200mm f/4 which was somehow misclassified as being f/2.8 or faster on the site), whereas the Samsung has 2, and one of them is a 16-50mm f/2-2.8, something not even Canon has in its system. What's more the prices of the Samsung lenses are a bargain compared to Sony's - the two fast zooms go for $1600 and $1100; Sony's f/4 zoom goes for $1500. If you are into primes, the two systems are closer in comparison, although Samsung does have an 85mm f/1.4 for around $700 which is an absolute bargain.

Most reviewers pan Samsung as not being quite ready for prime-time, which heaping lavish praise on Sony's offerings, particularly the A6000 and A7 series. But I wonder if this difference in critical opinion is warranted. Frankly, unless I am missing something, I'd rather have an NX300 with a 16-50mm f/2-2.8 and a 50-150mm f/2.8 vs a Sony A6000 with a 70-200mm f/4 and a 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6, even with the superiority of the A6000 vs NX300 factored in.
just buy a LA-EA4 adapter and put the Sony a-mount 16-50mm/2.8 and sigma 50-150mm/2.8 on your A6000. And no it will not be much bulkier than the samsung alternative you suggested plus you will have better PDAF!

apart from the NX1, the rest of the samsung bodies aren't on same level as Sony (you said yourself body/sensor is as important as lens). You are looking at 2-3 lenses but instead I suggest you look at the whole picture. Sony has a larger amount of native lenses and not to mention huge amount of adaptable lenses (even just for MF lenses Samsung don't have the same adaptability).

Sony's reasoning is if you want to use bulky lenses there are option already on a-mount you can adapt with full PDAF. Compared to size of the lenses you will be adapting the bulk of adapter is barely even noticeable infact it actually helps the balance. Plus you can add a grip to your A6000 to make the balance a lot better. So now you have options like 70-300mm, 70-400mm, even tamron 150-600mm *with PDAF* where are such options on samsung? beyond the initial 2-3 nice zoom lenses you basically have no such options on any other mirrorless. Even on the wide angle front you can adapt the best UWA lenses like nikon 14-24mm or canon TSE lenses for with AF isn't that important. And you also have the lighter option of using rangefinder lenses.

So thinking Samsung is better for lenses is just short sighted imo.

But if you are convinced they are better, no one is stopping you from swapping. Its your money at end of the day ;)

--
Focus on what you have, not on what you don't.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nandbytes/
--
Focus on what you have, not on what you don't.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nandbytes/

[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
 
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Sony now think FE is a gold mine and are lining up the high priced FE lenses -the Samsung ones do look much better value and now they have a decent camera.

M43 which needs faster lenses to compete only has 2.8 zooms but they need F2.0 now.
 
Sony now think FE is a gold mine and are lining up the high priced FE lenses -the Samsung ones do look much better value and now they have a decent camera.

M43 which needs faster lenses to compete only has 2.8 zooms but they need F2.0 now.
they used to make those for the 43 system

you can still use them with a adapter with autofocus.

These lenses however don't come small nor cheap.

 
M43 which needs faster lenses to compete only has 2.8 zooms but they need F2.0 now.
Trying to match larger formats is pointless. You say they need f/2 to compete. Compete with what ? f/2 is equivalent to f/4 on FF and FF has f/2.8 zooms. So is that to compete with APS-C ? If they need to do that, then doesn't APS-C need f/2 zooms to compete with FF ? Sony isn't even doing f/2.8 zooms for e-mount.

Downsizing is a compromise. You get something smaller and you give up your big max apertures. It's not for everybody, but it's sufficient for many.

- Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
Yea I am probably going to leave the E mount for this reason. I shot with the 24/1.8 recently and enjoyed it, but even at $800 used it's hard to swallow.

For me the 35mm FOV is pretty much perfection, and sadly pretty much EVERYBODY is weak with regards to an APS-C equivalent. Closest is the EOS-M 22/2, which is saddled by a system Canon seems reluctant to support and eager to sabotage (as well as a comparatively weak sensor).
@sportyaccordy. It is time to give Samsung a try. I just came back from Asia and have a change to test drive the Samsung NX1 with 16-50mm f/2~f/2.8 lens. The AF speed is nearly instant, the EVF is flawless (as good as OVF), and the Build of both the body and lens is beyond believe.

I had Canon 17-55 f/2.8 USM IS, while the optic is flawless, the Build is plasticky. Canon 17-55 is build Exactly like a $400 Canon 17-85mm IS USM, very disappointing since I paid nearly $1200 4 years ago.

There is nothing in Canon lineup that can match Samsung NX1. From its body size to 4K Video, this camera is a beast.

I had never consider buying Samsung before, but NX1 + 16-50 f/2~f/2.8 is changing my mind.

Another benefit is that Samsung has so many prime. I believe there is a 30mm f/2 + 20mm f2.8 + 16mm f/2.8, 45mm f/1.8, and 85mm f/1.8 lens at reasonable price.

I love my Canon EOS-M with 22mm f/2 combo. But going forward, I can see myself moving toward the Samsung collection. Check it out.
 
Yea I am probably going to leave the E mount for this reason. I shot with the 24/1.8 recently and enjoyed it, but even at $800 used it's hard to swallow.

For me the 35mm FOV is pretty much perfection, and sadly pretty much EVERYBODY is weak with regards to an APS-C equivalent. Closest is the EOS-M 22/2, which is saddled by a system Canon seems reluctant to support and eager to sabotage (as well as a comparatively weak sensor).

RX1 would be nice with a viewfinder but for $3000 you can get a new A7 kit + 35 2.8 no problem. The lack of wide native APS-C primes is a real problem.
Sigma to the rescue.

They make great and cheap 19mm f2.8 and a 30mm F2.8 for the E-mount system
Those are good lenses but F/2.8 is not fast enough for me. I'd rather put that money towards the 16-70 F/4, the 24/1.8, or leaving the E universe altogether and going to another system.
The only mirrorless systems that seems to have both good affordable options and great expensive options is m43. And then you have to live with a slightly smaller sensor.

Fujifilm is delivering the lenses everyone wants. But they ask a pretty penny for it.

The Nikon F-mount systems has all the lenses you would want at great prices. With the same sensors as those found in the Sony camera's. But since this is a Dslr system it will be significantly larger and heavier.

It's a tough call.
IDK. Pretty much all of these mounts, aside from Fujifilm, are very weak on wide angle primes.
M43 has

12mm f2 (24mm equiv.)

14mm f2.5(28mm equiv. tiny+ cheap)

15mm f1.7(stylish 30mm equiv.

17.5mm f1.8(no lens should focus this fast)

20mm f1.7(tack sharp wide-open)
And for what Fujifilm is charging for lenses

AND bodies,

to me it would just make more sense to go full frame. Sony FE threw a huge wrench in Fujifilm's whole business model. If/when they fill up their lens map I struggle to see what value Fujifilm delivers to folks not already invested in their ecosystem. F-mount had a huge hit with the 35 1.8, but failed to follow up with wider glass. Had there been DX-only, budget minded 16 & 24 1.8s I would probably come back to the Nikon fold despite hating the DSLR form factor.
MFT is no go for me. Double the F stops for FF equivalency. 40 F/4 for $800 is pretty ridiculous IMO. The rest are not much faster, AND MFT only goes up to 16 MP.
Put all those lenses on a GM5 and it fits in most pockets. The silent shutter is perfect for street photography. No Sony or Samsung can compete and since the apertures are wider than Sony native pancake prime lenses, it would often win in IQ department too. :D
So, do you OWN a GM5?

Or is it yet another case of a camera you don't own being smaller than a different camera you don't own (but since one is Sony, well you just gotta have a bash).

Are you a shareholder in Panasonic comrade? If not then what difference does it make who makes a camera you don't seem to own?

Nothing to stop someone buying that small camera and lens if that is what they want.....nothing restricts anyone from getting a different camera.

Interesting to note that none of the cameras you have listed in your gear list is smaller than even the Sony FF E mount cameras.....if size matters......I wonder why?

Oh and there IS a Sony that can fit in pockets and is as small with some lenses mounted.....the QX1.

If I wanted a GM5 I would have no issue buying a GM5......

Maybe it IS time to add up your anti-Sony posts after all.

Silent shutter is not "perfect" with any camera yet.......a great feature but as yet has plenty of limits.

My GX7 silent shutter is nice but a bit too limited......A7s silent shutter is a lot less limited but still far from perfect.
 
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Yea I am probably going to leave the E mount for this reason. I shot with the 24/1.8 recently and enjoyed it, but even at $800 used it's hard to swallow.

For me the 35mm FOV is pretty much perfection, and sadly pretty much EVERYBODY is weak with regards to an APS-C equivalent. Closest is the EOS-M 22/2, which is saddled by a system Canon seems reluctant to support and eager to sabotage (as well as a comparatively weak sensor).
@sportyaccordy. It is time to give Samsung a try. I just came back from Asia and have a change to test drive the Samsung NX1 with 16-50mm f/2~f/2.8 lens. The AF speed is nearly instant, the EVF is flawless (as good as OVF), and the Build of both the body and lens is beyond believe.

I had Canon 17-55 f/2.8 USM IS, while the optic is flawless, the Build is plasticky. Canon 17-55 is build Exactly like a $400 Canon 17-85mm IS USM, very disappointing since I paid nearly $1200 4 years ago.

There is nothing in Canon lineup that can match Samsung NX1. From its body size to 4K Video, this camera is a beast.

I had never consider buying Samsung before, but NX1 + 16-50 f/2~f/2.8 is changing my mind.

Another benefit is that Samsung has so many prime. I believe there is a 30mm f/2 + 20mm f2.8 + 16mm f/2.8, 45mm f/1.8, and 85mm f/1.8 lens at reasonable price.

I love my Canon EOS-M with 22mm f/2 combo. But going forward, I can see myself moving toward the Samsung collection. Check it out.
I mentioned in another forum the Samsung lens lineup is "thin", BUT they offer the lenses I am most interested in. I don't care about ten different kit lenses or five different super-zooms or 30mm macros with less than an inch working distance. A nice range of F/2.8 zooms (in this case one is and F/2-F/2.8!), an inexpensive stabilized macro, and a wider aperture portrait lens (85mm F/1.4) are enough to make me happy. :) If I decide to go small, there are some nice "pancake" lenses starting at F/2 also.
 

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