Got 4kHD displays, now need Canon cams with 4kHD & H.265 !!

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http://www.cnet.com/news/tvs-at-ces-2015-go-beyond-4k/

With H.265, the content will come, 4k BluRay players & disc by end of the year.

So, that leaves Canon and the Vacuum of 4khd vid cams for the non Pro !!

Canon really is lagging in this area for the non Pro !!

PS: Maybe we will get better 2kHD than currently w/ 4kHD, whenever?!

PPS: & from all appearances 3D is dead in our living rooms, onward with hi rez 2D !!
 
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http://www.cnet.com/news/tvs-at-ces-2015-go-beyond-4k/

With H.265, the content will come, 4k BluRay players & disc by end of the year.

So, that leaves Canon and the Vacuum of 4khd vid cams for the non Pro !!

Canon really is lagging in this area for the non Pro !!

PS: Maybe we will get better 2kHD than currently w/ 4kHD, whenever?!

PPS: & from all appearances 3D is dead in our living rooms, onward with hi rez 2D !!
why continue to complain infinitum?

currently there's only three ILC cameras that can record and save 4k natively. one of them is canon.
 
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http://www.cnet.com/news/tvs-at-ces-2015-go-beyond-4k/

With H.265, the content will come, 4k BluRay players & disc by end of the year.

So, that leaves Canon and the Vacuum of 4khd vid cams for the non Pro !!

Canon really is lagging in this area for the non Pro !!

PS: Maybe we will get better 2kHD than currently w/ 4kHD, whenever?!

PPS: & from all appearances 3D is dead in our living rooms, onward with hi rez 2D !!
why continue to complain infinitum?

currently there's only three ILC cameras that can record and save 4k natively. one of them is canon.
Most have argued that the 'infrastructure' is not there, now it is !!

"Build it, they will come!" Its Built !!

Customers will have sets, DirecTV will have 3 channels in 2015 (supposedly), Neflix is filming everything they do in 4kHD, streaming will come, etc, so there !!

Apparently Canon has some reasons NOT to 'come', I suspect tech issues, but .....?

Show me up Canon, show me UP!

PS: You may know everything about this subject, others will not, just feeding the unknowing - you just complaining (about me)!
 
The CP+ show is next month, and then NAB comes in April. Expect announcements (whatever they are) at those shows. If they don't knock it out of the park, then I suspect an exodus from many Canon faithful.
 
http://www.cnet.com/news/tvs-at-ces-2015-go-beyond-4k/

With H.265, the content will come, 4k BluRay players & disc by end of the year.

So, that leaves Canon and the Vacuum of 4khd vid cams for the non Pro !!

Canon really is lagging in this area for the non Pro !!

PS: Maybe we will get better 2kHD than currently w/ 4kHD, whenever?!

PPS: & from all appearances 3D is dead in our living rooms, onward with hi rez 2D !!
why continue to complain infinitum?

currently there's only three ILC cameras that can record and save 4k natively. one of them is canon.
Most have argued that the 'infrastructure' is not there, now it is !!

"Build it, they will come!" Its Built !!

Customers will have sets, DirecTV will have 3 channels in 2015 (supposedly), Neflix is filming everything they do in 4kHD, streaming will come, etc, so there !!

Apparently Canon has some reasons NOT to 'come', I suspect tech issues, but .....?

Show me up Canon, show me UP!

PS: You may know everything about this subject, others will not, just feeding the unknowing - you just complaining (about me)!
actually I tend to purchase cameras for taking pictures. if I want to take video and exacting video at that, i'll choose a better tool and one more ergonomically sound.
 
The CP+ show is next month, and then NAB comes in April. Expect announcements (whatever they are) at those shows. If they don't knock it out of the park, then I suspect an exodus from many Canon faithful.
why?

Olympus isn't going 4K .. and apparently any of the other announcements aren't doing 4k either.
 
http://www.cnet.com/news/tvs-at-ces-2015-go-beyond-4k/

With H.265, the content will come, 4k BluRay players & disc by end of the year.

So, that leaves Canon and the Vacuum of 4khd vid cams for the non Pro !!

Canon really is lagging in this area for the non Pro !!

PS: Maybe we will get better 2kHD than currently w/ 4kHD, whenever?!

PPS: & from all appearances 3D is dead in our living rooms, onward with hi rez 2D !!
why continue to complain infinitum?

currently there's only three ILC cameras that can record and save 4k natively. one of them is canon.
Most have argued that the 'infrastructure' is not there, now it is !!

"Build it, they will come!" Its Built !!

Customers will have sets, DirecTV will have 3 channels in 2015 (supposedly), Neflix is filming everything they do in 4kHD, streaming will come, etc, so there !!

Apparently Canon has some reasons NOT to 'come', I suspect tech issues, but .....?

Show me up Canon, show me UP!

PS: You may know everything about this subject, others will not, just feeding the unknowing - you just complaining (about me)!
like I said .. only THREE ILC cameras can shoot and record 4K. one of them is canon.
 
The CP+ show is next month, and then NAB comes in April. Expect announcements (whatever they are) at those shows. If they don't knock it out of the park, then I suspect an exodus from many Canon faithful.
why?

Olympus isn't going 4K .. and apparently any of the other announcements aren't doing 4k either.
Olympus? Does anyone really care about what Olympus is doing with video? Or Fuji? I would say no.

There ARE other manufacturers out there who are leading the 4K charge: Panasonic and Sony

Their next moves will be key. Sony's sensor manufacturing is also key since so many others use their sensors. Canon has been resting on its laurels with regards to cost effective video for years now - and especially coasting on the laurels of the Magic Lantern team.

Any updates that Panasonic and Sony announce at CP+ or NAB will further cement their lead in cost effective 4K video capture.
 
like I said .. only THREE ILC cameras can shoot and record 4K. one of them is canon.
And what Canon integrated lens camera does 4kHD ? (news to me) C300/500 both do 4k.

And who limited it to ILC cams? A serious video cam is NOT an ILC anyhow are they?

The NX1 is not, nor the GH4, nor BMxxx, nor ........
 
The CP+ show is next month, and then NAB comes in April. Expect announcements (whatever they are) at those shows. If they don't knock it out of the park, then I suspect an exodus from many Canon faithful.
Both Pro and serious non Pros likely, but numerous other 'step ups' from cell/p&S but will they choose Canon or Sony or Pan. ?

If video is of interest, Canon is least likely, for now.
 
actually I tend to purchase cameras for taking pictures. if I want to take video and exacting video at that, i'll choose a better tool and one more ergonomically sound.
Good for you, others may want a single device, that is as handy as a cell phone but better at both, not everyone has the deep pockets to do that - luckily you do?

Still means Canon is behind in H.265 & 4kHD irrespective of your desires and spending habits !!

Enjoy that C500 !!
 
http://www.cnet.com/news/tvs-at-ces-2015-go-beyond-4k/

With H.265, the content will come, 4k BluRay players & disc by end of the year.

So, that leaves Canon and the Vacuum of 4khd vid cams for the non Pro !!

Canon really is lagging in this area for the non Pro !!

PS: Maybe we will get better 2kHD than currently w/ 4kHD, whenever?!

PPS: & from all appearances 3D is dead in our living rooms, onward with hi rez 2D !!
Who cares?

Being able to play back 4K blurays is one thing.

Being able to edit and store 4K footage is quite another. Most PCs today can't even JUST play back a 4K file smoothly. My i7 equipped notebook doesn't.
 
like I said .. only THREE ILC cameras can shoot and record 4K. one of them is canon.
And what Canon integrated lens camera does 4kHD ? (news to me) C300/500 both do 4k.
EOS-1C did 4K two years ago. canon was the first with an ILC camera with 4K video.
And who limited it to ILC cams? A serious video cam is NOT an ILC anyhow are they?
aren't we talking about ILC's - you are IN a camera forum..
The NX1 is not, nor the GH4, nor BMxxx, nor ........
Right .. and those are the only ones.

you're also in the EOS-M forum - EOS-M will probably not any time soon have 4K - it's still way too much heat generated for such a small camera. even with h.465, it's still twice as much data as h.264 1080p, and 4 times the data read out and processing.
 
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like I said .. only THREE ILC cameras can shoot and record 4K. one of them is canon.
And what Canon integrated lens camera does 4kHD ? (news to me) C300/500 both do 4k.

And who limited it to ILC cams? A serious video cam is NOT an ILC anyhow are they?

The NX1 is not, nor the GH4, nor BMxxx, nor ........
The I in ILC stands for 'interchangeable', not integrated. This is, I suppose, to distinguish a camera with interchangeable lenses from DSLRs, which most people think just means a camera with interchangeable lenses.
 
like I said .. only THREE ILC cameras can shoot and record 4K. one of them is canon.
And what Canon integrated lens camera does 4kHD ? (news to me) C300/500 both do 4k.
EOS-1C did 4K two years ago. canon was the first with an ILC camera with 4K video.
Very expensive cam out of the reach of the vast majority of Canon users - essentially NOT available to us !!

BTW, I apologize, I do not call that cam ILC (which I thought was INTEGRATED LENS CAMERA) but use the term DLSR, which it is !

Canon needs a global shutter, and complete sensor readout and then either compress using a good/common codec or offer it as raw - but their current quality of H.264 2kHD is poor as it is - are they up to 4kHD in a 'cheap' single DSP cam ?

So how is the NX1, not a huge cam doing 4kHD ? Is the body the cooling 'fins' ?

And also new tech can likely solve any heat issue but then neither of us actually know this now do we ? I suspect Canon Digic/DSPs are not up to 4kHD either as they are inadequate as it is already (thus the use of multiple DSPs).

And the M3 could be a true 4kHD cam, but then will there even be a M3 ?

Canon has not demonstrated 4kHD in a DP sensor NOR in a 'consumer' grade ILC/DSLR cam.
 
like I said .. only THREE ILC cameras can shoot and record 4K. one of them is canon.
And what Canon integrated lens camera does 4kHD ? (news to me) C300/500 both do 4k.

And who limited it to ILC cams? A serious video cam is NOT an ILC anyhow are they?

The NX1 is not, nor the GH4, nor BMxxx, nor ........
The I in ILC stands for 'interchangeable', not integrated. This is, I suppose, to distinguish a camera with interchangeable lenses from DSLRs, which most people think just means a camera with interchangeable lenses.
Yes I admit my confusion & ignorance (I have never used the term ILC), but the poster was referring to what most of us would call a DSLR, the 1DC a 'cinema' DSLR - which Canon refers it as NOT ILC - ie the actual replacement for the 5DII/III for the cinema users - very pricey but capable Stills and Video DSLR cam.
 
like I said .. only THREE ILC cameras can shoot and record 4K. one of them is canon.
And what Canon integrated lens camera does 4kHD ? (news to me) C300/500 both do 4k.
EOS-1C did 4K two years ago. canon was the first with an ILC camera with 4K video.
Very expensive cam out of the reach of the vast majority of Canon users - essentially NOT available to us !!
well, no shi__ it was the FIRST ILC with 4K on the planet - would you not expect it to be expensive?
BTW, I apologize, I do not call that cam ILC (which I thought was INTEGRATED LENS CAMERA) but use the term DLSR, which it is !
ILC's include mirrorless and DSLR's. and BTW, the EOS-1C is still the only DLSR to shoot and record internally 4k - and is the largest sensor recording 4K internally.

the A7s does not currently record internally - you have to add a 4000 USD recorder to it.
Canon needs a global shutter, and complete sensor readout and then either compress using a good/common codec or offer it as raw - but their current quality of H.264 2kHD is poor as it is - are they up to 4kHD in a 'cheap' single DSP cam ?
oh sure. something no one else has managed to do yet - canon absolutely needs it. and probably not just because TI isn't there yet either.
So how is the NX1, not a huge cam doing 4kHD ? Is the body the cooling 'fins' ?
still a lot bigger than an M now isn't it? *sigh* are you always this obtuse or argumentative?
And also new tech can likely solve any heat issue but then neither of us actually know this now do we ? I suspect Canon Digic/DSPs are not up to 4kHD either as they are inadequate as it is already (thus the use of multiple DSPs).
there is something to do with this - however it's not "canon DSP's" if you are bickering about technology you SHOULD spend some time in at least learning something about what canon is using / doing.

just sitting here in a soapbox saying canon should also invent and issue out anti-gravity cameras so they weigh less is equally as pointless.

Canon uses TI DaVini DSP's in their DiGiC SOC.

canon to support 4K and I believe h.265 has to do a lot of legwork. h.265 simply just isn't there yet btw not even a lot of PC's and editors can work with h.265 and it has to be transcoded - for existing infrastructure, it may be easier to record in h.264 and transcode later into h.265.
 
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4K generates a lot of heat on the sensor and related ADC's etc - they are converting / reading far more data than 1080p is.

since larger sensors have larger wiring structures, this increases the resistance and also the thermal conditions on the sensor itself - combine that with the image processing and compression - which with h.265 is significant.

Panasonic states that there is no way right now that 4K will come to their smaller Gx series bodies because of thermal conditions. canon stated with the 1DC that internally they had to shunt more heat away from the camera itself to support 4k.

two sources claim heat is an issue.

keep in mind heating up the camera, and then shooting with high ISO's will degrade your ISO performance dramatically.

is canon working on 4k? I'm sure they will - but they will probably also really wait until TI supports it natively in their DSP's and processors before they implement. it's not in DiGiC 6, it may be possible in DiGiC 7.
 
4K generates a lot of heat on the sensor and related ADC's etc - they are converting / reading far more data than 1080p is.
The ADCs are on the sensor, the task is to remove the heat from the sensor and place it elsewhere which reduces artifacts caused by high thermal concentrations (banding & such), the DSPs being one and memory being an other heat producers, then the global removal of the heat - ie the spreading of the heat out is a big problem on a small camera.

But this is obviously ONLY an issue for small body cams NOT cams in general, once again NX1 ! Canon does NOT offer 4kHD on any DLSR but the 1DC !

Larger sensors due to the density of heat producing parts are the issue, since only a 8mp-12mp sensor is needed for 4kHD then higher mp Still sensors (18-36mp) and sizes are the issue.

Video specific sensors are smaller than 35mm or APS-C making it easier to dissipate that heat due to the physical size.
since larger sensors have larger wiring structures, this increases the resistance and also the thermal conditions on the sensor itself - combine that with the image processing and compression - which with h.265 is significant.
Not a wiring issue, the wiring just brings the data off the sensor to the other pertinent componenets (DSP memory, etc), and the larger the piece of the processing performed on the sensor the more heat produced there, then the associated processing (DSPs and ancillary circuitry) next produces big heat.

So yes small bodies have a hard time dissipating heat (with current tech solutions), but then the iphone does 4kHD does it not?
Panasonic states that there is no way right now that 4K will come to their smaller Gx series bodies because of thermal conditions. canon stated with the 1DC that internally they had to shunt more heat away from the camera itself to support 4k.
Of course that is with current or 3 yr old tech, but small sizes 'cluster' the heat and w/o active effort the heat will limit the size of 4kHD cams.

Tablets have the same issue, especially the i5,i7 tablets, they solve it via heat pipes and small fans, fans not likely in cams but heat pipes could be used - but of course making the cam just that much larger.

The only obvious solution is reduce the heat at the source via smaller chip topology (how Intel has done it) and smarter/clever heat management

....
is canon working on 4k? I'm sure they will - but they will probably also really wait until TI supports it natively in their DSP's and processors before they implement. it's not in DiGiC 6, it may be possible in DiGiC 7.
I suspect Canon submits specs to TI and TI responds with can or can not meet the spec, TI may have topology size issues (still too large). Samsung who I believe can make their own DSPs solved it, so can Canon but maybe not via TI (Texas Instruments) DSPs.

TI will support H.265 either when someone pays them or they think the market demands it - Canon apparently has not demanded or payed for it, yet, nor has TI produced for Canon a sufficient single DSP for advanced cam uses.

I do not know if TI are the leaders in DSPs of the type needed for a power limited applications - maybe.

I am certain that many chip firms are either soon to deliver or working ferociously to produce H.265 solutions - either single chip or multiple chips - as many/all those 4kHD non cam devices need them.

But NX1 has solved it, and somehow so can Canon !! Maybe just in DSLRs for now maybe not, we shall see yes? That is their tech hurtle to leap over !
 
FYI:



OR this:


Impressive tech both, I believe the first only for video but impressive IMO.

Canon does not seem to do this type of tech announcements, Sony does it for the PR and for potential chip customers, so has Canon the equal tech ??
 

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