Sigma DP Merrill or Quattro For Drone/Aerial Photography

jozhua · Jan 19, 2015

There's no doubt that Sigma Merrill and Quattro cameras are impressive IQ wise. The immense amount of detail captured is simply stunning which makes it without a doubt an amazing camera for aerial photography.

The question now is, has anyone tried doing such and is it even possible?

I'll be getting a Drone soon to be used for amateurish video captures and possibly wedding coverages. I'm not talking about video here but photos. Is it possible?

in a good day, Im pretty sure there would be enough light to satisfy the sensor so the issue would be on controlling the shutter button and taking the picture.

I've seen images online about using the camera in aerial photography but most were taken on planes.

What do you guys think? has anyone tried the same? share photos please?

Laurence Matson · Jan 20, 2015

jozhua said:
There's no doubt that Sigma Merrill and Quattro cameras are impressive IQ wise. The immense amount of detail captured is simply stunning which makes it without a doubt an amazing camera for aerial photography.

The question now is, has anyone tried doing such and is it even possible?

I'll be getting a Drone soon to be used for amateurish video captures and possibly wedding coverages. I'm not talking about video here but photos. Is it possible?

in a good day, Im pretty sure there would be enough light to satisfy the sensor so the issue would be on controlling the shutter button and taking the picture.

I've seen images online about using the camera in aerial photography but most were taken on planes.

What do you guys think? has anyone tried the same? share photos please?

jozhua · Jan 20, 2015

can you please tell me at least how?

I figure that having a wireless feed from the sensor would be out of the question, or maybe not, im not sure. what do i need to wirelessly trigger the shutter button in such a set up?

Laurence Matson · Jan 20, 2015

jozhua said:
can you please tell me at least how?

I figure that having a wireless feed from the sensor would be out of the question, or maybe not, im not sure. what do i need to wirelessly trigger the shutter button in such a set up?

That is a different question and requires more than one word.

How is simple:

- lots of practice

Set up and stuff are less so. You need:

- a very good video downlink so that you can see what the camera sees.

- to make your own cable from that to the camera by using the video cable, which comes with the camera, and attaching it to the video input signal

- to set the camera to interval (15 second works) so that it will fire

- a very good gyro with independent suspension to keep it stable, since any vibration will wreck the effect anywhere from a lot to modestly; the latter is acceptable but the former is not

- a way to view the video downlink output: goggles are the popular solution for cräp; a seven-inch monitor is actually less expensive and much better

- a copter, which has a very stable, suspended mount for the gyro to further keep vibrations down

- lots of practice

- the German electronics, since they invented this stuff and still do it best

Finally, only the Merrill works in my experience. I can get the Quattro up there and take images, but I have to use something else as a viewfinder. So I am not framing as well as with the Merrill. Of course, most people say "you can crop the image," but that is not really as good as obeying the fundamental part of photography: "you can frame the image."

--

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"I thought: I read something in a book, I dream, I imagine, and it comes true. And it is exactly like this in life.
"You can dream, and it comes true, as long as you can get out of the certitudes. As long as you can get a pioneering spirit, as long as you can explore, as long as you can think off the grid. So much time we spend in our education, in our lives is spent learning certitudes, learning habits, trying to fight against the unknown, to avoid the doubts and question marks. As soon as you start to love the unknown, to love the doubts, to love the question marks, life becomes an absolutely fabulous adventure."
Bertrand Piccard, a Swiss person

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Scottelly · Jan 20, 2015

Probably better get a good quad-copter with a motorized gyro camera mount and an Eye-Fi card, which you can receive the images wirelessly with a tablet computer. Then you just need to have the camera on a motorized gyro mount, and gradually adjust that, while the copter hovers in place. You'll go through three or four photos trying to get the right shot, and you'll have a few garbage shots, as you move the copter from place to place, but with the camera shooting at 1 shot every 15 or 20 seconds, you'll get a few minutes of shooting out of a battery. Of course, you won't have image stabilization or the ability to control the zoom or focus via wi-fi, and you won't have video capability either. If you haven't used a drone for shooting photos yet, I'd try a Sony RX100 series camera first, if I were you. The image quality is good enough for printing up to 16x20, and they shoot pretty good 1080p video.

victorgv · Jan 20, 2015

Scottelly said:
Probably better get a good quad-copter with a motorized gyro camera mount and an Eye-Fi card, which you can receive the images wirelessly with a tablet computer. Then you just need to have the camera on a motorized gyro mount, and gradually adjust that, while the copter hovers in place. You'll go through three or four photos trying to get the right shot, and you'll have a few garbage shots, as you move the copter from place to place, but with the camera shooting at 1 shot every 15 or 20 seconds, you'll get a few minutes of shooting out of a battery. Of course, you won't have image stabilization or the ability to control the zoom or focus via wi-fi, and you won't have video capability either. If you haven't used a drone for shooting photos yet, I'd try a Sony RX100 series camera first, if I were you. The image quality is good enough for printing up to 16x20, and they shoot pretty good 1080p video.

Sorry i do not think it will work you cant control heli position that precisely without video feedback, too much drift. Better solution for dp2q is to point chip remote video on to dp2q screen kind of like hoodman Lupe only digital and for dp2q it is most probably you can make remote rf trigger.

Try to get small quad copter it is quite fun.You can get some tiny ones for about $30 4 ch and giro and it will fit on your palm(no camera harness of course).

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/victor_gvirtsman/

NancyP · Jan 20, 2015

If you have sent up a Merrill, I assume that you have rigged or bought a remote release. If you bought it, or if you made one and don't mind posting a reference or a hint on how to do so, would you be willing to post about the release?

Laurence Matson · Jan 20, 2015

NancyP said:
If you have sent up a Merrill, I assume that you have rigged or bought a remote release. If you bought it, or if you made one and don't mind posting a reference or a hint on how to do so, would you be willing to post about the release?

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner · Jan 20, 2015

Scottelly said:
Probably better get a good quad-copter with a motorized gyro camera mount and an Eye-Fi card, which you can receive the images wirelessly with a tablet computer.

The only way the EyeFi is going to be able to reach your computer is if you (and the computer) are on a sling also being lifted by the copter.

Remember the EyeFi card is powered by the electronics that are only meant to power an SD card to the point it can write data!!

Even just using an EyeFi for studio-like shooting, it is kind of flaky. Over time the cards get better, but range will always be an issue because of power constraints.

Scottelly · Jan 20, 2015

Oh, I see. After looking at the description, I see you are quite right. They say 90' . . . but as a manufacturer claim, I would guess that to be pretty unrealistic. Even a range of 50' would not be very limiting in many situations though. Shooting photos from a five story building would normally be enough, even to shoot a two-story house for a realtor.

Loading…

www.bhphotovideo.com

Maybe a battery-powered range extender could be used, or a modified range extender, made from parts of a typical range extender for houses. You could take it apart and power it with batteries.

I'm thinking that could be velcroed on top of this little sucker:

Loading…

www.bhphotovideo.com

It would be a cheap way to do it, right?

You'd need one of these too:

Loading…

www.bhphotovideo.com

The way I see this working is you'd have to set the camera to shoot at ISO 200 to keep the shutter speeds up. Manually focusing at just less than infinity and using an aperture of f5.6 should do the trick. Then just set the angle you want, set the camera to shooting at one photo every 15 or 30 seconds, and and fly it up to where you want to shoot photo from. The Eye-fi card should be able to send the photos to your tablet, with that repeater, or if you only need to get 20 or 30 feet high, you probably don't need the repeater at all.

This all makes me want to try it. That copter will take me at least a month to save up for though . . . and I don't even have the DP3 Merrill that I want to get yet! lol

I have to get a hard drive and a couple of other things first, so it'll be at least three months before I get this set-up.

Richard Franiec · Jan 20, 2015

Laurence Matson said:
jozhua said:

can you please tell me at least how?

I figure that having a wireless feed from the sensor would be out of the question, or maybe not, im not sure. what do i need to wirelessly trigger the shutter button in such a set up?

Click to expand...

That is a different question and requires more than one word.

How is simple:

- lots of practice

Set up and stuff are less so. You need:

- a very good video downlink so that you can see what the camera sees.

- to make your own cable from that to the camera by using the video cable, which comes with the camera, and attaching it to the video input signal

- to set the camera to interval (15 second works) so that it will fire

- a very good gyro with independent suspension to keep it stable, since any vibration will wreck the effect anywhere from a lot to modestly; the latter is acceptable but the former is not

- a way to view the video downlink output: goggles are the popular solution for cräp; a seven-inch monitor is actually less expensive and much better

- a copter, which has a very stable, suspended mount for the gyro to further keep vibrations down

- lots of practice

- the German electronics, since they invented this stuff and still do it best

Finally, only the Merrill works in my experience. I can get the Quattro up there and take images, but I have to use something else as a viewfinder. So I am not framing as well as with the Merrill. Of course, most people say "you can crop the image," but that is not really as good as obeying the fundamental part of photography: "you can frame the image."

Keep them coming Laurence,

RF

Laurence Matson said:
--

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"I thought: I read something in a book, I dream, I imagine, and it comes true. And it is exactly like this in life.
"You can dream, and it comes true, as long as you can get out of the certitudes. As long as you can get a pioneering spirit, as long as you can explore, as long as you can think off the grid. So much time we spend in our education, in our lives is spent learning certitudes, learning habits, trying to fight against the unknown, to avoid the doubts and question marks. As soon as you start to love the unknown, to love the doubts, to love the question marks, life becomes an absolutely fabulous adventure."
Bertrand Piccard, a Swiss person
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

kwaller · Jan 21, 2015

Hi Laurence

Think i'm missing something, are you saying that you need a video cable between the camera and the monitor, if so thats going to be a bloody long cable. You would then have to use the interval shooting to fire a shot, is that correct.

I have seen people over Richmond Park using Giro copters with cameras mounted below but they have all been using Android remote apps to connect between the camera and the tablet / phone. One of the guys i spoke to a while ago was flying at about 150 feet and said that he can go to about 300 ft without loosing connectivity between camera and Android app.

Think but not sure he was using an Olympus camera.

Most of the other guys seemed to be using Fuji or Sony NEX cameras, none had video leads between camera and the operator.

Impressed with what photos you have posted using your giro rig, also nice to see your getting better after your accident.

Regards

Keith W

fba · Jan 21, 2015

NancyP said:
If you have sent up a Merrill, I assume that you have rigged or bought a remote release. If you bought it, or if you made one and don't mind posting a reference or a hint on how to do so, would you be willing to post about the release?

--
NancyP

Hello, check this link to a "remote shutter" without hack your Merrill camera.

Loading…

www.mikrokopter.de

I am loooking for a broken Sigma DP1 Merrill, If I find one to test I can share the way to hack to trigger using an optocoupler. Only some hours to get

victorgv · Jan 21, 2015

kwaller said:
Hi Laurence

Think i'm missing something, are you saying that you need a video cable between the camera and the monitor, if so thats going to be a bloody long cable. You would then have to use the interval shooting to fire a shot, is that correct.

I have seen people over Richmond Park using Giro copters with cameras mounted below but they have all been using Android remote apps to connect between the camera and the tablet / phone. One of the guys i spoke to a while ago was flying at about 150 feet and said that he can go to about 300 ft without loosing connectivity between camera and Android app.

Think but not sure he was using an Olympus camera.

Most of the other guys seemed to be using Fuji or Sony NEX cameras, none had video leads between camera and the operator.

Impressed with what photos you have posted using your giro rig, also nice to see your getting better after your accident.

Regards

Keith W

He does not use leads between camera and monitor he uses leads to video transmitter on helicopter.

Laurence Matson · Jan 21, 2015

kwaller said:
Hi Laurence

Think i'm missing something, are you saying that you need a video cable between the camera and the monitor, if so thats going to be a bloody long cable. You would then have to use the interval shooting to fire a shot, is that correct.

I have seen people over Richmond Park using Giro copters with cameras mounted below but they have all been using Android remote apps to connect between the camera and the tablet / phone. One of the guys i spoke to a while ago was flying at about 150 feet and said that he can go to about 300 ft without loosing connectivity between camera and Android app.

Think but not sure he was using an Olympus camera.

Most of the other guys seemed to be using Fuji or Sony NEX cameras, none had video leads between camera and the operator.

Impressed with what photos you have posted using your giro rig, also nice to see your getting better after your accident.

Keith,

Thank you for the kind words. I am about 25-30% there. Lots of long rows to hoe in front of me yet. I can walk and almost eat solid food again. Beer can start in May or June.

I use a video downlink, which is like a transmitter on the copter. It has a cable for power and signal, which I make for the Merrills from the included cables. The purpose of the power is obvious; the signal from the Merrill is essentially what the LCD shows when the camera is on. So I set that output on the LCD to get the information I want and use that in a separate monitor mounted on the top of my radio control unit for viewing.

So there is indeed a cable between the copter and the monitor, but it is largely virtual.

The advantage - and my goal was - that I can actually frame what I am photographing. For me, at least, that is a must. At the beginning, I had this tiny Sony mess trying to help me with this and some goggles to try to view it. I nearly went nuts.

However, I do use the Merrills as my viewfinder for my GoPro, since I can adjust the effective focal length of the latter to match that of the former. The latter is light enough to attach with velcro to the former, and I can capture both video and high-res stills at the same time. Not easy but nice when it works.

Laurence Matson · Jan 21, 2015

Scottelly said:
Probably better get a good quad-copter with a motorized gyro camera mount and an Eye-Fi card, which you can receive the images wirelessly with a tablet computer. Then you just need to have the camera on a motorized gyro mount, and gradually adjust that, while the copter hovers in place. You'll go through three or four photos trying to get the right shot, and you'll have a few garbage shots, as you move the copter from place to place, but with the camera shooting at 1 shot every 15 or 20 seconds, you'll get a few minutes of shooting out of a battery. Of course, you won't have image stabilization or the ability to control the zoom or focus via wi-fi, and you won't have video capability either. If you haven't used a drone for shooting photos yet, I'd try a Sony RX100 series camera first, if I were you. The image quality is good enough for printing up to 16x20, and they shoot pretty good 1080p video.

When doing this type of thing, you want to minimise the equipment in hand. Keep in mind that a lot of what you are doing is watching the copter. So having a separate tablet for viewing in addition to the radio control is no fun. I have often thought it would be good to have an app on the tablet to run the copter, but that would get into all kinds of other issues. There is something approaching this for Android devices that the Germans have come up with, but I still think it is a middling muddle at best.

There is zero advantage in using any sort of transmission from the copter to the ground beyond what is needed to control it and view what is being captured. I know that some of the big-time pros do this, it seems, but what they are doing is effectively downlinking at a higher rate. A couple of guys from my village in Switzerland started doing this about five years ago after my daughter went home to educate them, and they now do live transmissions of the ski races for Swiss television, among other things. Again, what they are really doing is sending the signal down for processing on the ground. They are also using enough batteries to run a Tesla for flying, as an aside.

There is a limited possibility to focus and zoom with some cameras, but these are usually for video; stills are just a side benefit, and the quality is nowhere near what the stills are from the Merrills. This control is again done through a downlink and not wifi.

Finally, who would want to use a Sony whatever for this? This kind of work requires the best possible information in the largest possible amount. And for video, I would used a dedicated video camera. Setup has to be different anyway.

Guenter Borgemeister · Jan 22, 2015

I took this with a Original DP2 on an octocopter in those good old days when I had time for such fun stuff.

The camera had been hacked for a remote shutter control, Laurence´s method of simply using the interval timer would have worked too I guess.

--
Photography:
http://borgemeister.com
http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://landmarks-of-iceland.com
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt
Wandtattoos, adesivi murali, vinilos paredes, väggdekaler:
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http://wandtattoo.land
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http://vinilos-pared.es
http://vaggdekor-vaggtext.se
http://stickers-mrali.it

Scottelly · Jan 22, 2015

Laurence Matson said:
Scottelly said:

Probably better get a good quad-copter with a motorized gyro camera mount and an Eye-Fi card, which you can receive the images wirelessly with a tablet computer. Then you just need to have the camera on a motorized gyro mount, and gradually adjust that, while the copter hovers in place. You'll go through three or four photos trying to get the right shot, and you'll have a few garbage shots, as you move the copter from place to place, but with the camera shooting at 1 shot every 15 or 20 seconds, you'll get a few minutes of shooting out of a battery. Of course, you won't have image stabilization or the ability to control the zoom or focus via wi-fi, and you won't have video capability either. If you haven't used a drone for shooting photos yet, I'd try a Sony RX100 series camera first, if I were you. The image quality is good enough for printing up to 16x20, and they shoot pretty good 1080p video.

Click to expand...

When doing this type of thing, you want to minimise the equipment in hand. Keep in mind that a lot of what you are doing is watching the copter. So having a separate tablet for viewing in addition to the radio control is no fun. I have often thought it would be good to have an app on the tablet to run the copter, but that would get into all kinds of other issues. There is something approaching this for Android devices that the Germans have come up with, but I still think it is a middling muddle at best.

There is zero advantage in using any sort of transmission from the copter to the ground beyond what is needed to control it and view what is being captured. I know that some of the big-time pros do this, it seems, but what they are doing is effectively downlinking at a higher rate. A couple of guys from my village in Switzerland started doing this about five years ago after my daughter went home to educate them, and they now do live transmissions of the ski races for Swiss television, among other things. Again, what they are really doing is sending the signal down for processing on the ground. They are also using enough batteries to run a Tesla for flying, as an aside.

There is a limited possibility to focus and zoom with some cameras, but these are usually for video; stills are just a side benefit, and the quality is nowhere near what the stills are from the Merrills. This control is again done through a downlink and not wifi.

Finally, who would want to use a Sony whatever for this? This kind of work requires the best possible information in the largest possible amount. And for video, I would used a dedicated video camera. Setup has to be different anyway.

I suggested the Sony RX100 because of its versatility. It's light, includes wi-fi, it can be used to shoot decent quality video, and I believe you can not only zoom, but adjust settings, like exposure compensation remotely, using the app on a tablet or smartphone. None of this is possible with the Sigma cameras, which lack wi-fi control, or am I mistaken? That's just my thoughts, and they're only based on what I've seen being used by others. You are definitely right about image quality. The RX 100 shoots 20 MP images, but they are nowhere near as good as the 20 MP images from a Quattro or even the 15 MP images from a Merrill. In fact it can't even compete with a Nikon D610. This is why I suggested the Eye-Fi card.

The idea of placing a separate camera next to, under, or even actually mounted on the DP camera for controling the direction the camera is pointing seems like a very good idea though, and then you don't have to worry about wi-fi with the DP camera at all - no delay to wait for either. Still, I think I might give that Eye-Fi card a try anyway. It would be nice to work with it in a studio setting, using a computer. Then all I have to do is get the drone and mount the camera on that puppy. It will be interesting to see how much range I can get with my notebook computer receiving the jpeg photos from the Eye-Fi card.

Laurence Matson said:
--
Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"I thought: I read something in a book, I dream, I imagine, and it comes true. And it is exactly like this in life.
"You can dream, and it comes true, as long as you can get out of the certitudes. As long as you can get a pioneering spirit, as long as you can explore, as long as you can think off the grid. So much time we spend in our education, in our lives is spent learning certitudes, learning habits, trying to fight against the unknown, to avoid the doubts and question marks. As soon as you start to love the unknown, to love the doubts, to love the question marks, life becomes an absolutely fabulous adventure."
Bertrand Piccard, a Swiss person
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

SigmaTog · Jan 22, 2015

Hi Guenter

Fantastic pano....where does the sky & water meet, on the right ?

I'd love to know how to do a remote control for the DP2 please.

I am familiar with the inside of mine as I have converted a few DP's for IR & UV photography.

ΣigmaTog

Laurence Matson · Jan 22, 2015

One needs to see this image in print, which I was able to do once. Kazuto has it in his office or Klo, not sure which. It is truly the first great aerial pano I have seen from any camera on a copter. And Günter did it without all the viewing goobarsh I use. Plus the pond is rurl purty.

Guenter Borgemeister said:
I took this with a Original DP2 on an octocopter in those good old days when I had time for such fun stuff.

The camera had been hacked for a remote shutter control, Laurence´s method of simply using the interval timer would have worked too I guess.

--
Photography:
http://borgemeister.com
http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://landmarks-of-iceland.com
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt
Wandtattoos, adesivi murali, vinilos paredes, väggdekaler:
http://wohntattoos.de
http://wandtattoos.ch
http://wandtattoo.land
http://wandtattoo.center
http://wandtattoo.guru
http://tattoodimuro.it
http://vinilos-pared.es
http://vaggdekor-vaggtext.se
http://stickers-mrali.it

--
Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"I thought: I read something in a book, I dream, I imagine, and it comes true. And it is exactly like this in life.
"You can dream, and it comes true, as long as you can get out of the certitudes. As long as you can get a pioneering spirit, as long as you can explore, as long as you can think off the grid. So much time we spend in our education, in our lives is spent learning certitudes, learning habits, trying to fight against the unknown, to avoid the doubts and question marks. As soon as you start to love the unknown, to love the doubts, to love the question marks, life becomes an absolutely fabulous adventure."
Bertrand Piccard, a Swiss person

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