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E-M1 shutter shock: finally I found it

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joergzielosko

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Being an E-M5 user for almost three years, I could never believe the reports about severe shutter shock issues with mFT cameras. There were simply no signs of shutter shock in any of my E-M5 images.

Of cause some of my images from that time were blurry, others were soft, but I am sure these problems were caused by the operator, not the shutter (camera shake, poor focusing).

Now I have an E-M1, and the first action was to enable 0 sec anti-shock. However, for some unknown reason that feature was disabled on Sunday, and the first image I took within the dangerous range clearly showed terrible double lines. No scientific tests needed for me, one ruined image is sufficient (luckily not a valuable one):

97d86fd2daea4ca6af59356bbcccf072.jpg

Look at the (more or less) horizontal lines in this crop:

27be44babf444350b279dfb6492777ba.jpg

I have never seen that before on my E-M5 images. So it's clear (at least for me) that shutter shock highly differs from one camera copy to another. So if your copy isn't affected: be happy. If it is: always keep 0 sec anti-shock activated. If it is an E-M5: avoid the dangerous shutter speed range.
 
Hi,

I have always suspected that SS occurs in some units e.g. EM1 or EPL1 and not others within the same model, it could be due to components tolerances, manufacturing processes, etc. I tend to agree with you. My E-PL1 experiences it but not my E-P3.
 
ttan98 said:
Hi,

I have always suspected that SS occurs in some units e.g. EM1 or EPL1 and not others within the same model, it could be due to components tolerances, manufacturing processes, etc. I tend to agree with you. My E-PL1 experiences it but not my E-P3.
Click to expand...
There are 11500 posts about shutter shock in this forum.

No smoke without fire. The issue is real.
 
What is the shutter speed range for shutter shock that people are finding on the EM-1?
 
ttan98 said:
Hi,

I have always suspected that SS occurs in some units e.g. EM1 or EPL1 and not others within the same model, it could be due to components tolerances, manufacturing processes, etc. I tend to agree with you. My E-PL1 experiences it but not my E-P3.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, it does vary (at least in the 2-axis IBIS models, where I feel the IBIS system may contribute to the effect) between individual examples of the same model, and more understandably between different models (e.g. the heavier weight of the E-P3 and different shutter mechanism, say from an E-PM1, makes it less often affected than the E-PM1). I've seen occasional SS on models since the E-PL1 before it was even discussed in the forums, and at that stage when I first came across the issue, I thought it was a camera fault and got a replacement before sending back the original, and the replacement was more affected than the original, in side-by-side tests.

I have had two E-P5 units (one early in its time on sale, which was returned as it was well before the 0-sec fix was issued, and indeed before DPR tested it too) and one bought (and kept) recently at a big discount, though it was built in the same month as the first one. Both of those suffered (and suffer) terribly with double images and blurring between 1/80 and 1/200, worst at 1/125 on every exposure (very easy to see), but it is totally fixed with 0-sec AS. With this model, I suspect the high-speed shutter (being the 1/8000, high-sync unit) interacts with the floating sensor - it feels/sounds to me to have a more pronounced, "sharper" mechanical action than the other units. I presume the E-M1 has the same shutter.
 
Now you have 2 options:

1. You can keep it

2. you can throw it away.

Personally, I do not pick up from the floor (my back is no good) :-D
 
Could you mark with some red circles these terrible double lines...? I have spend some minutes but given that I am in work now and see it from a tablet maybe I am missing the target...

Thanx in advance.

--
www.spiridakis.gr
 
Last edited:
Corpy2 said:
What is the shutter speed range for shutter shock that people are finding on the EM-1?
Click to expand...
From 1/80 to 1/320 give or take.
 
joergzielosko said:
Being an E-M5 user for almost three years, I could never believe the reports about severe shutter shock issues with mFT cameras. There were simply no signs of shutter shock in any of my E-M5 images.

Of cause some of my images from that time were blurry, others were soft, but I am sure these problems were caused by the operator, not the shutter (camera shake, poor focusing).
Click to expand...
How are you sure those problems were camera shake or poor focus?
joergzielosko said:
I have never seen that before on my E-M5 images. So it's clear (at least for me) that shutter shock highly differs from one camera copy to another
Click to expand...
How is it clear to you that it differs from one camera copy to the other?
 
Helen said:
ttan98 said:
Hi,

I have always suspected that SS occurs in some units e.g. EM1 or EPL1 and not others within the same model, it could be due to components tolerances, manufacturing processes, etc. I tend to agree with you. My E-PL1 experiences it but not my E-P3.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, it does vary (at least in the 2-axis IBIS models, where I feel the IBIS system may contribute to the effect) between individual examples of the same model, and more understandably between different models (e.g. the heavier weight of the E-P3 and different shutter mechanism, say from an E-PM1, makes it less often affected than the E-PM1). I've seen occasional SS on models since the E-PL1 before it was even discussed in the forums, and at that stage when I first came across the issue, I thought it was a camera fault and got a replacement before sending back the original, and the replacement was more affected than the original, in side-by-side tests.

I have had two E-P5 units (one early in its time on sale, which was returned as it was well before the 0-sec fix was issued, and indeed before DPR tested it too) and one bought (and kept) recently at a big discount, though it was built in the same month as the first one. Both of those suffered (and suffer) terribly with double images and blurring between 1/80 and 1/200, worst at 1/125 on every exposure (very easy to see), but it is totally fixed with 0-sec AS. With this model, I suspect the high-speed shutter (being the 1/8000, high-sync unit) interacts with the floating sensor - it feels/sounds to me to have a more pronounced, "sharper" mechanical action than the other units. I presume the E-M1 has the same shutter.
Click to expand...
Re: floating sensor - does this mean that SS would be reduced or eliminated with IBIS off?
 
Big Ga said:
joergzielosko said:
Being an E-M5 user for almost three years, I could never believe the reports about severe shutter shock issues with mFT cameras. There were simply no signs of shutter shock in any of my E-M5 images.

Of cause some of my images from that time were blurry, others were soft, but I am sure these problems were caused by the operator, not the shutter (camera shake, poor focusing).
Click to expand...
How are you sure those problems were camera shake or poor focus?
Big Ga said:
I have never seen that before on my E-M5 images. So it's clear (at least for me) that shutter shock highly differs from one camera copy to another
Click to expand...
How is it clear to you that it differs from one camera copy to the other?
Click to expand...
Still I can't find clear evidence of SS...
 
Spiridakis Michael said:
Could you mark with some red circles these terrible double lines...?
Click to expand...
No problem. It seems all horizontal lines are double, with about three pixels spacing in this shot.

And while I am not sure about the distant power lines (they have been recently installed, so may be there are indeed double wires :-)), the road markings at this place are only single white lines.

863ea13c804a4240b88c13cb4ef8479c.jpg
 
Joinker said:
Joinker said:
ttan98 said:
Hi,

I have always suspected that SS occurs in some units e.g. EM1 or EPL1 and not others within the same model, it could be due to components tolerances, manufacturing processes, etc. I tend to agree with you. My E-PL1 experiences it but not my E-P3.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, it does vary (at least in the 2-axis IBIS models, where I feel the IBIS system may contribute to the effect) between individual examples of the same model, and more understandably between different models (e.g. the heavier weight of the E-P3 and different shutter mechanism, say from an E-PM1, makes it less often affected than the E-PM1). I've seen occasional SS on models since the E-PL1 before it was even discussed in the forums, and at that stage when I first came across the issue, I thought it was a camera fault and got a replacement before sending back the original, and the replacement was more affected than the original, in side-by-side tests.

I have had two E-P5 units (one early in its time on sale, which was returned as it was well before the 0-sec fix was issued, and indeed before DPR tested it too) and one bought (and kept) recently at a big discount, though it was built in the same month as the first one. Both of those suffered (and suffer) terribly with double images and blurring between 1/80 and 1/200, worst at 1/125 on every exposure (very easy to see), but it is totally fixed with 0-sec AS. With this model, I suspect the high-speed shutter (being the 1/8000, high-sync unit) interacts with the floating sensor - it feels/sounds to me to have a more pronounced, "sharper" mechanical action than the other units. I presume the E-M1 has the same shutter.
Click to expand...
Re: floating sensor - does this mean that SS would be reduced or eliminated with IBIS off?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, no - the mechanism is still capable of some movement if jolted as the method of suspension is still working in this case, just to keep it still. The 5- and 3-axis systems use a form of electromagnetic levitation, which is active whenever the camera is powered up, IBIS on or off, and the sensor drops to a non-shooting position when powered off. In some examples you can hear it move loosely around whilst the camera is turned off, if you tilt the camera - a slide and quiet thunk. It varies from camera to camera and the 3-axis models seem more audible for some reason.
 
now -- further tests. At a higher shutter speed, and with zero delay anti=shake.

And all of them with IBIS turned off.
 
Hi Jörg

May I ask you if you made this picture with the 75-300mm lens?

I have noticed problems as discribed with that lens in many situation, especially at the long end. I got whole series of shots that were unusable. I give you an example here: 1/320s @ 300mm with me standing steady and aiming proberly (at least I thought I would).

ee22950b183b4de19c3399b74cf68482.jpg

Just as to compare to a shot 10 minutes earlier: 1/60s @ 75mm

3bc2abaaf4fc48a0aaab7fc29b866ff8.jpg

I always shoot with the battery grip mounted - just for the record (means bigger mass).

Cheers

Emilio
 
emsig said:
May I ask you if you made this picture with the 75-300mm lens?
Click to expand...
No, it was the 75mm f/1.8 lens in my case. In the past I used that lens a lot on my E-M5 and I never noticed such behaviour.

The 75-300mm is (similar to most "budget" zoom lenses) known to be rather soft at the long end, that means from about 250mm.

I will do some more tests in the near future.
 
Thank you Jörg for your answer.

Cheers

Emilio
 
As I said before, I'm not sure about the power lines. But the horizontal structures of the trees and also of the house are clearly double.To behonest, the whole picture looks like viewed through a jalousie!

311b1f66fbad4bfeba11106634ecd97e.jpg

Anyway, it's only one completely unimportant image. I am planning to do some more tests in the future.
 
Helen said:
ttan98 said:
Hi,

I have always suspected that SS occurs in some units e.g. EM1 or EPL1 and not others within the same model, it could be due to components tolerances, manufacturing processes, etc. I tend to agree with you. My E-PL1 experiences it but not my E-P3.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, it does vary (at least in the 2-axis IBIS models, where I feel the IBIS system may contribute to the effect) between individual examples of the same model, and more understandably between different models (e.g. the heavier weight of the E-P3 and different shutter mechanism, say from an E-PM1, makes it less often affected than the E-PM1). I've seen occasional SS on models since the E-PL1 before it was even discussed in the forums, and at that stage when I first came across the issue, I thought it was a camera fault and got a replacement before sending back the original, and the replacement was more affected than the original, in side-by-side tests.

I have had two E-P5 units (one early in its time on sale, which was returned as it was well before the 0-sec fix was issued, and indeed before DPR tested it too) and one bought (and kept) recently at a big discount, though it was built in the same month as the first one. Both of those suffered (and suffer) terribly with double images and blurring between 1/80 and 1/200, worst at 1/125 on every exposure (very easy to see), but it is totally fixed with 0-sec AS. With this model, I suspect the high-speed shutter (being the 1/8000, high-sync unit) interacts with the floating sensor - it feels/sounds to me to have a more pronounced, "sharper" mechanical action than the other units. I presume the E-M1 has the same shutter.
Click to expand...
The faster shutter-blade movement (higher sync speed) of the E-P5 and E-M1 may well exacerbate the shock since there is more kinetic energy and momentum to be dealt with. However, I am sceptical of the idea that IBIS exacerbates the issue. Shutter shock occurs even with cameras with fixed sensors and my own tests (with the E-M5) as well as several others suggest that movement of the entire camera rather than its parts is the immediate cause of the blur (although I am open to the possibility that there are additional or alternative explanations in at least some cases).
 
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