Does A7 II use the SSS focal length for AutoISO

If anyone is using A7 II can you let me know if the manually selected focal length for SSS is also used by AutoISO to compute the minimum shutter speed.

I am very disappointed that Sony left AutoISO so neglected for 8 years that it turned from one of the best features they got from Minolta into the worst implementation across the industry. The cost of fixing it in FW to match Nikon is perhaps no more than couple of weeks of work...it is just so disappointing. They need to let me tell the camera - use 3 times the focal length for minimum shutter speed and never go below 1/100 (or whatever ratio and minimum speed I see fit)

PS I know all that my A7 can do in M with AutoISO. I know how to use S mode and so on. It is just not addressing the problem. People manged to take pictures without auto ISO at all but when every one has it and it works better than your cameras - Why not fix it? It is a bug at this stage.

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

If anyone is using A7 II can you let me know if the manually selected focal length for SSS is also used by AutoISO to compute the minimum shutter speed.

I am very disappointed that Sony left AutoISO so neglected for 8 years that it turned from one of the best features they got from Minolta into the worst implementation across the industry. The cost of fixing it in FW to match Nikon is perhaps no more than couple of weeks of work...it is just so disappointing. They need to let me tell the camera - use 3 times the focal length for minimum shutter speed and never go below 1/100 (or whatever ratio and minimum speed I see fit)

PS I know all that my A7 can do in M with AutoISO. I know how to use S mode and so on. It is just not addressing the problem. People manged to take pictures without auto ISO at all but when every one has it and it works better than your cameras - Why not fix it? It is a bug at this stage.

Click to expand...

In P-mode, you can use one dial for ISO, and the other dial for A/S selection. This works with all A7 cameras, and gives you control on all three parameters (A, SS, ISO), without having to go into M mode.

A and S mode by themselves work kind of similar. Set the upper/lower ISO limits (ISO menu) and then the camera matches the other parameter (S or A), but the algorithms will hit max-ISO most of the time.

The P-mode override may give you the control that you want.

The A7 does not have a min/max SS control, but the A7m2 seems to have improved on the SS/ISO algorithms versus the A7.

If hitting max ISO, don't be shy to switch to JPG and try MFNR, AMB, or HHT modes.

blue_skies said:

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

If anyone is using A7 II can you let me know if the manually selected focal length for SSS is also used by AutoISO to compute the minimum shutter speed.

I am very disappointed that Sony left AutoISO so neglected for 8 years that it turned from one of the best features they got from Minolta into the worst implementation across the industry. The cost of fixing it in FW to match Nikon is perhaps no more than couple of weeks of work...it is just so disappointing. They need to let me tell the camera - use 3 times the focal length for minimum shutter speed and never go below 1/100 (or whatever ratio and minimum speed I see fit)

PS I know all that my A7 can do in M with AutoISO. I know how to use S mode and so on. It is just not addressing the problem. People manged to take pictures without auto ISO at all but when every one has it and it works better than your cameras - Why not fix it? It is a bug at this stage.

Click to expand...

In P-mode, you can use one dial for ISO, and the other dial for A/S selection. This works with all A7 cameras, and gives you control on all three parameters (A, SS, ISO), without having to go into M mode.

A and S mode by themselves work kind of similar. Set the upper/lower ISO limits (ISO menu) and then the camera matches the other parameter (S or A), but the algorithms will hit max-ISO most of the time.

The P-mode override may give you the control that you want.

The A7 does not have a min/max SS control, but the A7m2 seems to have improved on the SS/ISO algorithms versus the A7.

Click to expand...

The a7II is exactly the same as the a7. There was no improvement.

blue_skies said:

If hitting max ISO, don't be shy to switch to JPG and try MFNR, AMB, or HHT modes.

Click to expand...

[edit] In shutter priority mode using the FE 55/1.8, the a7R would select f/4 until the maximum ISO is reached while the a7II apparently will select f/2. That's an improvement.

I've given up hoping that they will ever fix this problem. I now use manual mode with auto iso when needed.

I tried in store today with FE 35 lens and set the focal length to 120mm for SSS still shutter stayed at 1/60 in A mode and iso 400.

No luck

PS I hope Sony soon address this defect in an urgent update.

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

If anyone is using A7 II can you let me know if the manually selected focal length for SSS is also used by AutoISO to compute the minimum shutter speed.

I am very disappointed that Sony left AutoISO so neglected for 8 years that it turned from one of the best features they got from Minolta into the worst implementation across the industry. The cost of fixing it in FW to match Nikon is perhaps no more than couple of weeks of work...it is just so disappointing. They need to let me tell the camera - use 3 times the focal length for minimum shutter speed and never go below 1/100 (or whatever ratio and minimum speed I see fit)

PS I know all that my A7 can do in M with AutoISO. I know how to use S mode and so on. It is just not addressing the problem. People manged to take pictures without auto ISO at all but when every one has it and it works better than your cameras - Why not fix it? It is a bug at this stage.

Click to expand...

Although you can't call it a "bug" and I definitively agree that there is no reason why Sony shouldn't correct/better implement the 'Auto Minimum Shutter Speed' with a user "selectable-formula-type 1/FL, 1/FLx1,5, 1/FLx2 or even 1/FLx3", I still can't find any compelling reason not to use 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' instead of P, A or S Modes (or any other mode)...

So, unless you prefer having always a fixed ISO value while Shutter Speed or Aperture are randomly set by the camera, please enlighten me for the situations not (better) covered by 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' - Thank you.

All the best,
Pedro

NumberOne said:

So, unless you prefer having always a fixed ISO value while Shutter Speed or Aperture are randomly set by the camera, please enlighten me for the situations not (better) covered by 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' - Thank you.

Click to expand...

Sure! I should have started with this As you say Auto ISO is very practical on manual mode. So I used M mode the other day taking pictures in the park, using 70-200 f4 FE lens. Weather is nice some scattered clouds. Sun is out of the clouds and my metering starts blinking as AutoISO can only go to 100 at the low end. This is fair and I bump the speed up to 1/800 and close the aperture a stop to f5.6 to get the camera shooting at iso 160, 200. My friend and I walk through the park and enter a shady area. You now dense vegetation lots of shade. My model sits on a tree trunk and I take few shots. All is fine ISO can bump up so no blinking no issue. I go back home and I see some absurd shots - f5.6, 1/800 and iso 5000!!! on an f4 lens. Same shot could have used f4, 1/200, iso 640 and virtually no noise would have come out.

In this situation one could say - well watch the iso value. They will be right. Now the problem is that in this type of circumstance outside in the park I might be shooting an event and taking many people shots and some people may be in the shade and as I turn others be in the sun i.e. on literally every shot I will get change in light that will require me to intervene with M mode auto ISO - so really M mode fixed ISO or auto ISO does not matter much - I will waste 20-30 seconds a shot to turn dials back and forth as you saw in the example above 3 dials with 3,6 and 9 steps on each dial going one third stop on each step. The natural mode I would prefer using is A as I want to keep the camera in the f4 to f5.6 range to get some DoF. It would be ideal if A7 is smart enough to pick working shutter speed and iso combination swiftly for the said aperture. The camera 90% there except that inflexible minimum shutter speed setting.

So that is why I am calling this a bug not an enhancement. 90+% of the job is done by Sony engineers and we have only a tiny bit to fix by adding couple menu items for selectable

1. Minimum shutter speed

2. Custom minimum speed to focal length ratio.

There are settings we have that are much lower priority on the camera like - minimum iso value in auto iso (who is using this? What is it used for at all? I suppose someone is but I just am not in their shoes).

Also it is not something unique Nikon D600 had it and I was happy (It turned oily sensor in matter of weeks).

I do not understand why people are sparing Sony this feedback and pretending ot be happy with half baked solution that is not a solution at all. I agree M mode auto-ISO is very useful thing but is not sufficient. D600 had both and all new Nikons do as I believe do the Fuji's and Olympus and Panasonic cameras. Really it is probably only Canon that are still living in 2008 that may be lacking this.

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

NumberOne said:

So, unless you prefer having always a fixed ISO value while Shutter Speed or Aperture are randomly set by the camera, please enlighten me for the situations not (better) covered by 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' - Thank you.

Click to expand...

Sure! I should have started with this As you say Auto ISO is very practical on manual mode. So I used M mode the other day taking pictures in the park, using 70-200 f4 FE lens. Weather is nice some scattered clouds. Sun is out of the clouds and my metering starts blinking as AutoISO can only go to 100 at the low end. This is fair and I bump the speed up to 1/800 and close the aperture a stop to f5.6 to get the camera shooting at iso 160, 200. My friend and I walk through the park and enter a shady area. You now dense vegetation lots of shade. My model sits on a tree trunk and I take few shots. All is fine ISO can bump up so no blinking no issue. I go back home and I see some absurd shots - f5.6, 1/800 and iso 5000!!! on an f4 lens. Same shot could have used f4, 1/200, iso 640 and virtually no noise would have come out.

Click to expand...

You would also have absurd Shutter Speed or Aperture is you fixed the ISO and worked in Aperture or Shutter Speed Priorities respectively, I'm afraid...

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

In this situation one could say - well watch the iso value. They will be right. Now the problem is that in this type of circumstance outside in the park I might be shooting an event and taking many people shots and some people may be in the shade and as I turn others be in the sun i.e. on literally every shot I will get change in light that will require me to intervene with M mode auto ISO - so really M mode fixed ISO or auto ISO does not matter much - I will waste 20-30 seconds a shot to turn dials back and forth as you saw in the example above 3 dials with 3,6 and 9 steps on each dial going one third stop on each step. The natural mode I would prefer using is A as I want to keep the camera in the f4 to f5.6 range to get some DoF. It would be ideal if A7 is smart enough to pick working shutter speed and iso combination swiftly for the said aperture. The camera 90% there except that inflexible minimum shutter speed setting.

Click to expand...

You will only have absurd ISO values if you dialed absurd Aperture and Shutter Speed values for the light (and action) conditions - It's exactly the same, once again...

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

So that is why I am calling this a bug not an enhancement. 90+% of the job is done by Sony engineers and we have only a tiny bit to fix by adding couple menu items for selectable

1. Minimum shutter speed

2. Custom minimum speed to focal length ratio.

There are settings we have that are much lower priority on the camera like - minimum iso value in auto iso (who is using this? What is it used for at all? I suppose someone is but I just am not in their shoes).

Click to expand...

Some of use it quite a lot, if not every time...

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

Also it is not something unique Nikon D600 had it and I was happy (It turned oily sensor in matter of weeks).

I do not understand why people are sparing Sony this feedback and pretending ot be happy with half baked solution that is not a solution at all. I agree M mode auto-ISO is very useful thing but is not sufficient. D600 had both and all new Nikons do as I believe do the Fuji's and Olympus and Panasonic cameras. Really it is probably only Canon that are still living in 2008 that may be lacking this.

Click to expand...

As I said in the post you're replying now - «there is no reason why Sony shouldn't correct/better implement the 'Auto Minimum Shutter Speed' with a user "selectable-formula-type 1/FL, 1/FLx1,5, 1/FLx2 or even 1/FLx3"» for 'A Mode with Auto-ISO', but nevertheless this isn't the reason why 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' shouldn't be used thoroughly...

My opinion, YMMV, of course!


All the best,
Pedro

NumberOne said:

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

NumberOne said:

So, unless you prefer having always a fixed ISO value while Shutter Speed or Aperture are randomly set by the camera, please enlighten me for the situations not (better) covered by 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' - Thank you.

Click to expand...

Sure! I should have started with this As you say Auto ISO is very practical on manual mode. So I used M mode the other day taking pictures in the park, using 70-200 f4 FE lens. Weather is nice some scattered clouds. Sun is out of the clouds and my metering starts blinking as AutoISO can only go to 100 at the low end. This is fair and I bump the speed up to 1/800 and close the aperture a stop to f5.6 to get the camera shooting at iso 160, 200. My friend and I walk through the park and enter a shady area. You now dense vegetation lots of shade. My model sits on a tree trunk and I take few shots. All is fine ISO can bump up so no blinking no issue. I go back home and I see some absurd shots - f5.6, 1/800 and iso 5000!!! on an f4 lens. Same shot could have used f4, 1/200, iso 640 and virtually no noise would have come out.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Why not set the ISO limit to e.g. 1600, and watch your Shutter Speed (SS)? If your SS becomes too long, you will realize that you have to bump your ISO (on a native lens). This works in M, S, A, and P mode.

NumberOne said:

You would also have absurd Shutter Speed or Aperture is you fixed the ISO and worked in Aperture or Shutter Speed Priorities respectively, I'm afraid...

NumberOne said:

In this situation one could say - well watch the iso value. They will be right. Now the problem is that in this type of circumstance outside in the park I might be shooting an event and taking many people shots and some people may be in the shade and as I turn others be in the sun i.e. on literally every shot I will get change in light that will require me to intervene with M mode auto ISO - so really M mode fixed ISO or auto ISO does not matter much - I will waste 20-30 seconds a shot to turn dials back and forth as you saw in the example above 3 dials with 3,6 and 9 steps on each dial going one third stop on each step. The natural mode I would prefer using is A as I want to keep the camera in the f4 to f5.6 range to get some DoF. It would be ideal if A7 is smart enough to pick working shutter speed and iso combination swiftly for the said aperture. The camera 90% there except that inflexible minimum shutter speed setting.

Click to expand...

You will only have absurd ISO values if you dialed absurd Aperture and Shutter Speed values for the light (and action) conditions - It's exactly the same, once again...

NumberOne said:

So that is why I am calling this a bug not an enhancement. 90+% of the job is done by Sony engineers and we have only a tiny bit to fix by adding couple menu items for selectable

1. Minimum shutter speed

2. Custom minimum speed to focal length ratio.

There are settings we have that are much lower priority on the camera like - minimum iso value in auto iso (who is using this? What is it used for at all? I suppose someone is but I just am not in their shoes).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Well, you do have the blinking F-stop to signify when you are over- or under-exposing. You will get at least a warning.

If you set a minimum shutter speed and a maximum ISO, while using a slow (f4) lens, the camera may often not be able to take a shot. This is just as annoying. Most photographers would pick an ISO (quality) over a speed (blur) setting.

In M-mode, you control all parameters (FL, SS, A, ISO), S, A, or P mode let you pick SS, A or the combination of both, while ISO gets calculated.

But why not using iAuto+ mode in such cases?

NumberOne said:

Some of use it quite a lot, if not every time...

NumberOne said:

Also it is not something unique Nikon D600 had it and I was happy (It turned oily sensor in matter of weeks).

I do not understand why people are sparing Sony this feedback and pretending ot be happy with half baked solution that is not a solution at all. I agree M mode auto-ISO is very useful thing but is not sufficient. D600 had both and all new Nikons do as I believe do the Fuji's and Olympus and Panasonic cameras. Really it is probably only Canon that are still living in 2008 that may be lacking this.

Click to expand...

As I said in the post you're replying now - «there is no reason why Sony shouldn't correct/better implement the 'Auto Minimum Shutter Speed' with a user "selectable-formula-type 1/FL, 1/FLx1,5, 1/FLx2 or even 1/FLx3"» for 'A Mode with Auto-ISO', but nevertheless this isn't the reason why 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' shouldn't be used thoroughly...

My opinion, YMMV, of course!

All the best,
Pedro

Click to expand...

NumberOne said:

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

NumberOne said:

So, unless you prefer having always a fixed ISO value while Shutter Speed or Aperture are randomly set by the camera, please enlighten me for the situations not (better) covered by 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' - Thank you.

Click to expand...

Sure! I should have started with this As you say Auto ISO is very practical on manual mode. So I used M mode the other day taking pictures in the park, using 70-200 f4 FE lens. Weather is nice some scattered clouds. Sun is out of the clouds and my metering starts blinking as AutoISO can only go to 100 at the low end. This is fair and I bump the speed up to 1/800 and close the aperture a stop to f5.6 to get the camera shooting at iso 160, 200. My friend and I walk through the park and enter a shady area. You now dense vegetation lots of shade. My model sits on a tree trunk and I take few shots. All is fine ISO can bump up so no blinking no issue. I go back home and I see some absurd shots - f5.6, 1/800 and iso 5000!!! on an f4 lens. Same shot could have used f4, 1/200, iso 640 and virtually no noise would have come out.

Click to expand...

You would also have absurd Shutter Speed or Aperture is you fixed the ISO and worked in Aperture or Shutter Speed Priorities respectively, I'm afraid...

Click to expand...

With Nikon I used minimum shutter speed of 1/250 with their 85/1.8 G and really had no issues with exposure at all in A mode. I fail to understand how I will get absurd values if I had working A mode instead of being forced into M mode.

I guess you have not had experience with more capable camera like D600. This behaviour of Auto ISO with customisable minimum shutter speed is actually quite useful.

If you have chance use a Nikon camera for a while and you will likely repeat my post when going back to your Sony. I am shooting Sony for 8 years now and had a temporary switch to Nikon as the A99 was absurdly priced. I love my A7 for what it is but some things need be fixed. I would be actually happy to buy (yes for actual cache) a firmware update pack with codec, auto ISO fix and similar stuff that would extend the usability of the product beyond its original state. Same as my NEX-7 the HW is very capable but there are glitches

NumberOne said:

As I said in the post you're replying now - «there is no reason why Sony shouldn't correct/better implement the 'Auto Minimum Shutter Speed' with a user "selectable-formula-type 1/FL, 1/FLx1,5, 1/FLx2 or even 1/FLx3"» for 'A Mode with Auto-ISO', but nevertheless this isn't the reason why 'Manual Mode with Auto-ISO and EC' shouldn't be used thoroughly...

My opinion, YMMV, of course!

Click to expand...

Agreed! We as customers of Sony cameras need to be honest about defects in public, so that Sony guys looking at forums can prioritise these things appropriately.

Perhaps it would be useful to have a full list of cameras that have the ISO features being asked for ? Sometimes Sony need a gentle nudge to get them moving in the right direction ........

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

If anyone is using A7 II can you let me know if the manually selected focal length for SSS is also used by AutoISO to compute the minimum shutter speed.

I am very disappointed that Sony left AutoISO so neglected for 8 years that it turned from one of the best features they got from Minolta into the worst implementation across the industry. The cost of fixing it in FW to match Nikon is perhaps no more than couple of weeks of work...it is just so disappointing. They need to let me tell the camera - use 3 times the focal length for minimum shutter speed and never go below 1/100 (or whatever ratio and minimum speed I see fit)

PS I know all that my A7 can do in M with AutoISO. I know how to use S mode and so on. It is just not addressing the problem. People manged to take pictures without auto ISO at all but when every one has it and it works better than your cameras - Why not fix it? It is a bug at this stage.

Click to expand...

The problem is even worse with Fuji. It does not take into account the focal length.

I would like to switch to Sony but this problem is really irritating. This is real mystery, why do they have so much difficulty with this function ???? I just think that they do not make the effort to do it...

The best implementation would be to avoid camera shake and subject movements by taking into account minimum shutter speed AND focal length. The maximum of these 2 limits. Nikon has the best implementation of auto-iso but they do not propose this ideal implementation.