NX1 Low ISO long exposure

viking79 · Dec 3, 2014

I think Samsung finally has a sensor which does well at long exposure, what do you think?

(The earlier sensors all get pretty miserable at long exposures).

I turn down sharpness, saturation and contrast as they tend to be overdone in JPEG and are also not reversible. I will probably set saturation back to 0 and contrast to -1. Also, RAW with Long Frame Noise reduction doesn't work quite right in Lightroom, it must be messing something up, the WB is all off. These JPEGs are fine, so it must be something with Lightroom.

The dynamic range of this sensor is unreal, more in another post

I will get some RAW later, even without the noise reduction the noise looks good (and the RAW files are better behaved). If you are going to shoot RAW I would disable long term noise reduction for now (be sure to try it both ways to see difference).

Out of camera JPEG (sharpness -3, saturation -1, contrast -2)

Out of camera JPEG (again, sharpness -3, saturation -1, contrast -2)

Usee · Dec 4, 2014

viking79 said:
I think Samsung finally has a sensor which does well at long exposure, what do you think?

(The earlier sensors all get pretty miserable at long exposures).

I turn down sharpness, saturation and contrast as they tend to be overdone in JPEG and are also not reversible. I will probably set saturation back to 0 and contrast to -1. Also, RAW with Long Frame Noise reduction doesn't work quite right in Lightroom, it must be messing something up, the WB is all off. These JPEGs are fine, so it must be something with Lightroom.

The dynamic range of this sensor is unreal, more in another post

I will get some RAW later, even without the noise reduction the noise looks good (and the RAW files are better behaved). If you are going to shoot RAW I would disable long term noise reduction for now (be sure to try it both ways to see difference).

Out of camera JPEG (sharpness -3, saturation -1, contrast -2)

Out of camera JPEG (again, sharpness -3, saturation -1, contrast -2)

Hello Eric,

maybe you should try to convert the RAWs to DNG and use RAWTherapee...

...or maybe you can send me some RAWs, if you would not like to use RAWTherapee?

Lightroom is the biggest draw back in regard of the IQ of NX1 RAW files,

you should really try to use a workaround until the support is fixed.

--
Envy is the highest form of recognition.
-
Stop to run, start to think.
-
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
-
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
-
Avoid to have only one point of view!
-
U see?

Ninjin · Dec 4, 2014

Hi Eric,

Thank you for taking the time to share your NX1 experience with the forum, it's much appreciated!

Do you know if the dark frame subtraction for long exposures can be disabled on the NX1? I find it really frustrating sometimes when using my NX300 for night timelapses that involve longer exposures and only being able to capture 50% of the time (with forced DFS).

Thanks!

viking79 · Dec 4, 2014

Ninjin said:
Hi Eric,

Thank you for taking the time to share your NX1 experience with the forum, it's much appreciated!

Do you know if the dark frame subtraction for long exposures can be disabled on the NX1? I find it really frustrating sometimes when using my NX300 for night timelapses that involve longer exposures and only being able to capture 50% of the time (with forced DFS).

Thanks!

For shots at 30 seconds or less, yes it can be disabled. However, for bulb mode it cannot be disabled unfortunately, and it appears it might just be a limitation of using older firmware since the camera seems perfectly fine with longer exposures. The NX300 sensor really shows a lot of heat buildup at longer exposure times which I don't see with the NX1.

You should be able to disable it for shots 30 seconds or less on your NX300 too, under the user menu and under Noise Reduction, I think they call it long term noise reduction or something.

Eric

viking79 · Dec 4, 2014

Usee said:
Hello Eric,

maybe you should try to convert the RAWs to DNG and use RAWTherapee...

I will have to try those.

Usee said:
...or maybe you can send me some RAWs, if you would not like to use RAWTherapee?

Lightroom is the biggest draw back in regard of the IQ of NX1 RAW files,

I agree, they definitely need to improve this. I think I saw similar with long term noise reduction messing up RAW in Lightroom a while back as well, (maybe NX20 or NX300 don't remember).

Kind of annoying since LR is default editor, and they don't even have it working 100%. First thing I do is hit Remove Chromatic Aberration, which helps a lot. With the long term noise reduction shots it is like the color profile is all messed up.

Geotagging from my cell phone using bluetooth doesn't work properly either, Lightroom was putting locations all over the globe. I think it was reading position incorrectly from the tag (not sure if Samsung or Lightroom's fault). I didn't actually check the tag to verify if position was correct.

Eric

Usee · Dec 4, 2014

viking79 said:
Usee said:

Hello Eric,

maybe you should try to convert the RAWs to DNG and use RAWTherapee...

Click to expand...

I will have to try those.

viking79 said:

...or maybe you can send me some RAWs, if you would not like to use RAWTherapee?

Lightroom is the biggest draw back in regard of the IQ of NX1 RAW files,

Click to expand...

I agree, they definitely need to improve this. I think I saw similar with long term noise reduction messing up RAW in Lightroom a while back as well, (maybe NX20 or NX300 don't remember).

Kind of annoying since LR is default editor, and they don't even have it working 100%. First thing I do is hit Remove Chromatic Aberration, which helps a lot. With the long term noise reduction shots it is like the color profile is all messed up.

Geotagging from my cell phone using bluetooth doesn't work properly either, Lightroom was putting locations all over the globe. I think it was reading position incorrectly from the tag (not sure if Samsung or Lightroom's fault). I didn't actually check the tag to verify if position was correct.

Eric

Yes, that is all a bit "strange" to say the least...

...maybe Samsung should ask ACDSee for cooperation on the software side? ;-)

At least the ACDSee support for the NX1000 was better, than that from Silkypix and Lightroom...

-

At the moment, RAWTherapee+DNG is the way to go.

viking79 · Dec 4, 2014

Here is a RAW for the second, in Lightroom, see the issues with having long ISO NR on with WB at least (might only be color profile which gets messed up, a bit hard to tell).

Loading…

www.amazon.com

Eric

viking79 · Dec 4, 2014

viking79 said:
Here is a RAW for the second, in Lightroom, see the issues with having long ISO NR on with WB at least (might only be color profile which gets messed up, a bit hard to tell).

Eric

Actually, it is almost like they are doing the subtraction incorrectly for the RAW file, but okay for the JPEG, is that possible? It almost looks like the exposure is notably brighter for the DFS shot.

Here are three photos, the first is out of camera JPEG, the second one is with DFS on and from the RAW and the third is a separate shot with DFS off. The second and third are from RAW, the first out of camera JPEG for the DFS shot looks fine.

RAW files:

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/BLA34_mZg1sTzejFcnORkDR1QszQE45UeBbEd3kLrYk

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/Sx_qbpxR3r5kNFZo6c5UzKoHEBbC60uNiqwTa9mFC6Y

DFS On, out of camera JPEG

DFS on, from RAW

DFS off, from RAW

Lucky Penguin · Dec 4, 2014

Usee said:
Hello Eric,

maybe you should try to convert the RAWs to DNG and use RAWTherapee...

...or maybe you can send me some RAWs, if you would not like to use RAWTherapee?

Lightroom is the biggest draw back in regard of the IQ of NX1 RAW files,

you should really try to use a workaround until the support is fixed.

--
Envy is the highest form of recognition.
-
Stop to run, start to think.
-
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
-
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
-
Avoid to have only one point of view!
-
U see?

Sounds like I would still be using the same workflow for the NX1 as I do with the NX300. I convert all of my NX300 SRW files to DNG using Adobe's DNG Converter before reading them into Lightroom. SRW file in Lightroom on the left, DNG file on the right.

Usee · Dec 5, 2014

Lucky Penguin said:
Usee said:

Hello Eric,

maybe you should try to convert the RAWs to DNG and use RAWTherapee...

...or maybe you can send me some RAWs, if you would not like to use RAWTherapee?

Lightroom is the biggest draw back in regard of the IQ of NX1 RAW files,

you should really try to use a workaround until the support is fixed.

--
Envy is the highest form of recognition.
-
Stop to run, start to think.
-
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
-
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
-
Avoid to have only one point of view!
-
U see?

Click to expand...

Sounds like I would still be using the same workflow for the NX1 as I do with the NX300. I convert all of my NX300 SRW files to DNG using Adobe's DNG Converter before reading them into Lightroom. SRW file in Lightroom on the left, DNG file on the right.

Adobe demonstrates with Lightroom impressively, how important RAWTherapee is, to avoid, dependency from big players, who seem to misuse their power.

Imagine all the (lens) tests, who would have a even better outcome for the NX lenses, if the tester would not use Lightroom as base... ;-)

--
Envy is the highest form of recognition.
-
Stop to run, start to think.
-
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
-
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
-
Avoid to have only one point of view!
-
U see?

LMBC · Dec 5, 2014

Hi,

Can't access your link.

OrdinarilyInordinate · Dec 5, 2014

Could you share your RT profile preset for NX300 at some point, if you have one? Just as a reference starting point. I've been dabbling in using RT for a while now time to time, but I never get the colors right--results always look strange to me, where LR makes an effortless punchy and realistic image. Thank you.

viking79 · Dec 5, 2014

Are you using a proxy? Many companies block file storage sites. I can't check it here (proxy), will check it later. Anyone else able to see it?

Thanks,

Eric

OrdinarilyInordinate · Dec 5, 2014

viking79 said:
Are you using a proxy? Many companies block file storage sites. I can't check it here (proxy), will check it later. Anyone else able to see it?

Thanks,

Eric

I can see the file fine from my home computer--no proxy / special firewall.

Usee · Dec 5, 2014

OrdinarilyInordinate said:
Could you share your RT profile preset for NX300 at some point, if you have one? Just as a reference starting point. I've been dabbling in using RT for a while now time to time, but I never get the colors right--results always look strange to me, where LR makes an effortless punchy and realistic image. Thank you.

I have no NX300...

...but I tested the RAWs as the camera was new (with different RAW converter), because I thought, that I would buy one...

...however, the difference to my NX1000 was not huge enough, therefore I waited and waited until the NX1 was announced - and now I bought the NX1 and did encounter the same problems with the Lightroom support, the NX300 had...

...long - short...

I have made no color profile etc for the NX300...

...and I don't know, if I had one, it would help you, because I don't know your screen, your perception etc.

You have to read the tutorials which are available on the RAWTherapee page, just like people are used to read Lightroom tutorials...

Loading…

rawtherapee.com

...however, RAWTherapee will give you better results after your effort, than Lightroom.

OrdinarilyInordinate · Dec 5, 2014

Usee said:
OrdinarilyInordinate said:

Could you share your RT profile preset for NX300 at some point, if you have one? Just as a reference starting point. I've been dabbling in using RT for a while now time to time, but I never get the colors right--results always look strange to me, where LR makes an effortless punchy and realistic image. Thank you.

Click to expand...

I have no NX300...

...but I tested the RAWs as the camera was new (with different RAW converter), because I thought, that I would buy one...

...however, the difference to my NX1000 was not huge enough, therefore I waited and waited until the NX1 was announced - and now I bought the NX1 and did encounter the same problems with the Lightroom support, the NX300 had...

...long - short...

I have made no color profile etc for the NX300...

...and I don't know, if I had one, it would help you, because I don't know your screen, your perception etc.

You have to read the tutorials which are available on the RAWTherapee page, just like people are used to read Lightroom tutorials...

http://rawtherapee.com/blog/documentation

...however, RAWTherapee will give you better results after your effort, than Lightroom.

viking79 · Dec 5, 2014

I am always split for lens tests, RT will definitely give me a more true to the lens review, without any optical corrections, but at the same time this is not how I use the camera/lens. I use the distortion corrections and Lightroom, so I like to use it for the reviews as well.

The added lateral CA will mess with my CA measures, and I think using "Remove CA" will help, but this will likely remove actual lens CA, so it makes me think I should stop measuring lateral CA as it is pretty unimportant in the digital age with 1 click corrections for it.

I will give it a try, I have it installed so I can check to see how much distortion correction Lightroom is applying to some lenses.

Eric

Usee · Dec 5, 2014

OrdinarilyInordinate said:
Usee said:

OrdinarilyInordinate said:

Could you share your RT profile preset for NX300 at some point, if you have one? Just as a reference starting point. I've been dabbling in using RT for a while now time to time, but I never get the colors right--results always look strange to me, where LR makes an effortless punchy and realistic image. Thank you.

Click to expand...

I have no NX300...

...but I tested the RAWs as the camera was new (with different RAW converter), because I thought, that I would buy one...

...however, the difference to my NX1000 was not huge enough, therefore I waited and waited until the NX1 was announced - and now I bought the NX1 and did encounter the same problems with the Lightroom support, the NX300 had...

...long - short...

I have made no color profile etc for the NX300...

...and I don't know, if I had one, it would help you, because I don't know your screen, your perception etc.

You have to read the tutorials which are available on the RAWTherapee page, just like people are used to read Lightroom tutorials...

http://rawtherapee.com/blog/documentation

...however, RAWTherapee will give you better results after your effort, than Lightroom.

Click to expand...

jkoch2 · Dec 5, 2014

A few miles downstream from the boxy Alliant tower and municipal building you photograped stands a roller dam that helps furnish cooling water to an adjacent plant. Below the dam, during colder winters, many eagles congregate to find food when other rivers freeze.

Loading…

www.kcrg.com

Geo-coordinates:

north short at 41.944585,-91.625376 to the island at roughly 41.944116,-91.616642

The birds are very wary and tend to do their most serious fishing early in the morning. Occasionally, a whole klatch of them sit on a tree on the island and take turns swooping down to the waters. Sometimes the competition is less than sporting, though, when one tries to steal the other's catch.

Interesting whether a cropped NXT shot, using the 200mm lens, might outdo the Brady Smith KCRG video. But dress warm and be prepared for days when the eagles congregate elsewhere, perhaps

41.944116,-91.616642

which is no good for photography if shooting into the winter sun from the park on the north banks.

If no birds show up, the steam rising from the Alliant power plant or Cargill mills can yield a photogenic spectable on cold days or nights.

Even the ruins of the old Wilson plant might present a photogenic opportunity. Beware: you might hear phantom squeals of bygone bacon.

viking79 · Dec 5, 2014

jkoch2 said:
A few miles downstream from the boxy Alliant tower and municipal building you photograped stands a roller dam that helps furnish cooling water to an adjacent plant. Below the dam, during colder winters, many eagles congregate to find food when other rivers freeze.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Bald-Eagles-More-Visible-This-Winter-242475551.html

Geo-coordinates:

north short at 41.944585,-91.625376 to the island at roughly 41.944116,-91.616642

The birds are very wary and tend to do their most serious fishing early in the morning. Occasionally, a whole klatch of them sit on a tree on the island and take turns swooping down to the waters. Sometimes the competition is less than sporting, though, when one tries to steal the other's catch.

Interesting whether a cropped NXT shot, using the 200mm lens, might outdo the Brady Smith KCRG video. But dress warm and be prepared for days when the eagles congregate elsewhere, perhaps

41.944116,-91.616642

which is no good for photography if shooting into the winter sun from the park on the north banks.

If no birds show up, the steam rising from the Alliant power plant or Cargill mills can yield a photogenic spectable on cold days or nights.

Even the ruins of the old Wilson plant might present a photogenic opportunity. Beware: you might hear phantom squeals of bygone bacon.

Thanks for the tips, I do like to go down to watch the eagles at times, but not much of a bird photographer. That Wilson plant might be tempting! Is it accessible at all, or do they have it locked up?

I use the Alliant tower area as a lens test area, I do sometimes see eagles there as you said.

Maybe I will have to try some eagle shots, only issue is I would have to use manual focus since I don't have anything longer than 85mm for my NX1. Maybe I can convince Jay to send me a 300mm f/2.8 for review

Eric

NX1 Low ISO long exposure

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