"Crippling" a product to "protect" higher end sales

People whine about everything on the interweb. Nothing is ever good enough. The man is out to get me, blah blah blah. If people want more features, all they have to do is pay for them, or try the brand they think has it all.
 
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You know, I think that's an important distinction. I wonder how many people have thought that maybe Canon's process went like this...

Canon: okay, we have the 5D Mark III but we believe there's a market for a FF camera priced dramatically lower. We need to maintain this profit margin, yet provide a feature set compelling enough to sell. So... where can we trim costs?
  • building materials
  • AF module
  • LCD size
  • FPS
  • viewfinder size
  • dual card slots
  • max shutter speed (cheaper materials which don't have to absorb a 1/8000 speed)
Canon: so... if we do all that, is it affordable to those who are willing to spend X while maintaining the same profit margin?
 
'Crippling' a product on this forum means expecting the very best camera, ie including all the high end functionality, in a cheap body....

it's a way for people to say ' I wish I could get those in my body at my price.....

understandable really as that is what we all want!
 
I see this sentence (or something similar enough) ALLLLLLLLLL the time and having a BS in Business Management along with quite a bit of real world experience in management and sales, I have to wonder what people are thinking when they say this.

I'm interested in hearing the "Canon cripples their products" people voice their reasoning behind their statements so that I can better understand where they're coming from.
You would have been better served if you had a BS in Psychology. The reasoning is terribly simple:

If I had those features, whatever they might be, I would be a star photographer. Since I am not, it is because the company, whichever it may be, is preventing me by charging a price, whatever that might be, that is denying the world of my unfulfilled masterpieces...

...whichever I imagine them to be.
 
I don't need any BSc to tell me what the bible already did: There's none so blind as those that won't see.

The 5D Mark II annoyed quite a number of people because it cost $3400 was crippled with the 9-point autofocus diamond, whereas the D700 had 51 points or something and cost less. The reason was easy to find- if you wanted really good autofocus with Canon lenses, Canon wanted you to pay $8000 for a 1DS III. They half got away with it because the D700 had nowhere near as many megapixels, but they lost the lead in the full frame sports market for several years.

Your BSc 'brainwave' seems to be based on the idea it is more expensive to provide higher-end features. Not necessarily when you factor in economies of scale as Nikon do, rolling out a very similar if not the same focus system in D300, D300S, D3, D3S, D3X, D700 etc.
 
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…is not so much the product differentiation that is common to every company.

It is that the world does not revolve around Canon's notions of what that differentiation should be.

IE - Canon offers a feature that will only be available on its flagship model.

Sony makes that feature available on a midrange model.

If that feature is important to me: Buh-bye Canon.

For instance - There has been a long standiing rumor that Canon will offer hi-rez in an expensive 1 series body.

I want hi-rez but I don't want a large body and I don't want to pay that much.

Nor do I want to wait for Canon to decide when that technology will "trickle down" to amatuer bodies for more reasonable money.

Hello A7R + Metabones 4 !

Now I have a small, inexpensive, hi-res body that takes hundreds of different lenses (including my Canons) and more than meets my needs.

It is OK to differentiate a product line but you better make damn sure that your competiters are not go to end run you by offering more for less.

--
¡Viva la Resolución!
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I've been guilty of stating that Canon crippled the 5D III SD card slot's write speed to avoid further cannibalizing sales of the flagship 1DX which came out just months later. The SD card slot was rendered useless for many pros and most, such as myself, only use the CF slot.

I really doubt it would have added significant expense to the US$3000 5D III to make the SD card slot handle modern high speed SD cards.

Willing to be corrected, but that's my theory.
 
I see this sentence (or something similar enough) ALLLLLLLLLL the time and having a BS in Business Management along with quite a bit of real world experience in management and sales, I have to wonder what people are thinking when they say this.

I'm interested in hearing the "Canon cripples their products" people voice their reasoning behind their statements so that I can better understand where they're coming from.
You would have been better served if you had a BS in Psychology. The reasoning is terribly simple:

If I had those features, whatever they might be, I would be a star photographer. Since I am not, it is because the company, whichever it may be, is preventing me by charging a price, whatever that might be, that is denying the world of my unfulfilled masterpieces...

...whichever I imagine them to be.
See... I ended up with a minor in Sociology and a class away from a minor in Psyc. I really should have just gone all-in!

Great post, btw :-)
 
I've been guilty of stating that Canon crippled the 5D III SD card slot's write speed to avoid further cannibalizing sales of the flagship 1DX which came out just months later. The SD card slot was rendered useless for many pros and most, such as myself, only use the CF slot.

I really doubt it would have added significant expense to the US$3000 5D III to make the SD card slot handle modern high speed SD cards.

Willing to be corrected, but that's my theory.

--
photojournalist
Yamaguchi "Suzuki san I think we have a problem."

Suzuki "What's that?"

Yamaguchi "The 1D X. It's $6799 and when we launch the 5D III next week at $3399 the 1D X sales are going to hit a brick wall."

Suzuki "Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that."

Tamagotchi "Sir, Sir, I have an idea! If we downgrade the SD Card slot in the 5DIII then all the pros will say "Never mind the money. Pah! What's $3400 anyway. We'll have the 1D X, thank you very much."

Suzuki "Hmmm, might work. Good lad! By the way, what is an SD card?"
I admit ignorance--I see there are "+" notices on the reply by folks who "get it." Is this a parody of Canon execs? I seriously think it was a marketing/engineering decision to "cripple" the 5D III SD slot to help avoid cannibalizing 1DX sales and had little to do with the boardroom. I can see no other realistic reason to offer the lame SD write speed.
I would have liked a $3399 1DX, but paid the price for 2 CF slots. I only use one slot at a time though. I doubt I would have used the SD slot in a 5DMkIII, if I'd bought one.

The + thing should be removed. I preferred the minus scoring, because I could get more points that way with far less effort.
 
I think people say they crippled the 6d because there is no other reasonable explanation for the AF system on the 6d. The released a number of crop sensor enthusiast level cameras with very nice AF systems and then after that they released the 6D with the AF system similar to the $300 rebel.
Aiming the camera at the rebel type of user seems to me to be ample explanation for the AF system.

Too much choice will cause confusion and make a lot of customers mistrustful. Have a look at what troubles the AF on the 7D2 can cause among the target group.

So they make it simple and most customers are probably happy with that.

Case solved.
 
....but everything changed when D700 was first introduced. Because when D700 came out it introduced a sensor and an AF module of the flag-ship camera, despite being a semi-pro camera costing thousands of dollars less. Now, every camera that's unveiled on Canon or Nikon side or any side with crucial features omitted, is considered "crippled".

Canon's current line-up strategy creates this notion that Canon deliberately omits certain features from lower models. The reason being, is that other manufacturers, like Nikon, and Sony have abandoned the old strategy on product differentiation. Canon seems to continue with the same old strategy. Sony is a good example of the new strategy, it has three 7r series bodies with 36mp, 24mp, and 12mp sensors. None of these products are crippled (if you look how they are compared to each other), but they are still vastly different.
 
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To me the word crippled with respect to a produst means that the feature is there, but it is cheaper to disable it rather than redesign the product without the feature. I do not see anything new here.

When the original 300D was released, it was crippled to protect the sales of the 10D. A hacker found a way to cure the camera by re]storing the crippled features and the hack became widely avgailable. I remember with Intel released the 386 processer, they crippled the math coprocessor to bring out a lower price chip for cheaper computers. I think DEC did the same thing with one of its computers.
 
Solution: Just get the current flagship camera for $400 10 years after the fact. Then you'll have everything non-crippled.

What I did with the 1D mk iin.

Still a pretty bad-@ss cam.
 
Putting in a lower cost version of AF in the 6D (vs 5DMk3) is NOT crippling. It is simply a economy model.

The following are example of crippling:
  1. Since all Intel CPUs come off the same assembly line, locking the clock multiplier in their CPUs is arguably "crippling". However, you can also say that since Intel did not spend the effort testing those CPUs at higher speed, it is just a lower cost option, not guarantee to work at higher clock speed.
  2. There are legitimate reason for crippling. For example, American defense contractors routinely remove advanced features from U.S. weapon system before selling them on the international market. Most of these are done by deleting codes from the software. Yes, they spend efforts (meaning $$) to make sure such features are really removed.
The only type of crippling I see in DSLRs is uncompressed HDMI output. The feature is there. ML can easily restore it.

--
Peter Kwok
Click here for my PBase gallery
WYSIWYG - If you don't like what you get, try to see differently.
 
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These people said the 5D3 would never have the 1DX AF. They also said the 7D2 would never have it, nor 10fps. And yet here they are.
 
I see this sentence (or something similar enough) ALLLLLLLLLL the time and having a BS in Business Management along with quite a bit of real world experience in management and sales, I have to wonder what people are thinking when they say this.

I'm interested in hearing the "Canon cripples their products" people voice their reasoning behind their statements so that I can better understand where they're coming from.
You would have been better served if you had a BS in Psychology. The reasoning is terribly simple:

If I had those features, whatever they might be, I would be a star photographer. Since I am not, it is because the company, whichever it may be, is preventing me by charging a price, whatever that might be, that is denying the world of my unfulfilled masterpieces...

...whichever I imagine them to be.
Agreed. It is the same victim mentality as "I don't make enough money because rich people are keeping me down, and stealing from me."

--
Accutance: adj. The sharpness of a photographic image. Used by people trying to sound intelligent.
 
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Putting in a lower cost version of AF in the 6D (vs 5DMk3) is NOT crippling. It is simply a economy model.

The following are example of crippling:
  1. Since all Intel CPUs come off the same assembly line, locking the clock multiplier in their CPUs is arguably "crippling". However, you can also say that since Intel did not spend the effort testing those CPUs at higher speed, it is just a lower cost option, not guarantee to work at higher clock speed.
  2. There are legitimate reason for crippling. For example, American defense contractors routinely remove advanced features from U.S. weapon system before selling them on the international market. Most of these are done by deleting codes from the software. Yes, they spend efforts (meaning $$) to make sure such features are really removed.
The only type of crippling I see in DSLRs is uncompressed HDMI output. The feature is there. ML can easily restore it.
 
Putting in a lower cost version of AF in the 6D (vs 5DMk3) is NOT crippling. It is simply a economy model.

The following are example of crippling:
  1. Since all Intel CPUs come off the same assembly line, locking the clock multiplier in their CPUs is arguably "crippling". However, you can also say that since Intel did not spend the effort testing those CPUs at higher speed, it is just a lower cost option, not guarantee to work at higher clock speed.
  2. There are legitimate reason for crippling. For example, American defense contractors routinely remove advanced features from U.S. weapon system before selling them on the international market. Most of these are done by deleting codes from the software. Yes, they spend efforts (meaning $$) to make sure such features are really removed.
The only type of crippling I see in DSLRs is uncompressed HDMI output. The feature is there. ML can easily restore it.
 
It is hyperbole. It is an insult leveled at some of the more distasteful aspects of market segmentation. There, I've said it. Distasteful: some aspects and applications of it.

You haven't provided a text book definition of market segmentation/differentiation at least up to this point in the thread so I will continue on with my own understanding of the term and perhaps, unwittingly, rolling in other marketing principles into the mix.

There are market segmentations that are easy to understand because the value is easy to ascertain. This type of market segmentation is, I believe, universally accepted.

A 2000 sq. foot home vs. a 10,000 sq. foot home. It is obvious why there should be a difference in price (though it may not be immediately obvious why the price differential may or may not be linear relative to the square footage).

What is less obvious is why one DSLR can be priced at $500 and another priced at $8000 because they all have a mirror, shutter, sensor, and create exposure through SS, aperture and ISO.

I am not going to elaborate on the following statement so as to avoid getting mired in the details. What I want to point out is the macro economics of the camera business as I have observed it. As a business major, maybe you can help me understand. I hope you do not get mired in the details too should you decide to respond.

Market segmentation is one of the rationales for price strata, othrwise, who would care?

I began using 35mm format DSLRs in 2003. I was shocked that there were only two main competitors in the format, Canon and Nikon. All of those other famous names I had heard of for years didn't seem to be a factor and today they are mostly marketers of tiny sensor, mirrorless cameras. A couple of manufacturers still have "token" DSLRs. (see? I've just thrown out a passive aggressive insult much in the same style as the "cripple" insult)

IMO, this lack of competition allows Canon to create, in some cases, artificial market segmentations through the inclusion/exclusion of features some of which would only cost a few dollars to create and implement. Thank God for Nikon pushing the envelope (and perhaps the 2008 world-wide recession too) as we've seen Canon begin to include features that heretofore had been excluded in cameras of certain price strata (i.e. become more competitive). Nikon is not guiltless either. The DSLR market needs more competition. Thanks should goes out to Magic Lantern too (the sometimes awkward implementations of this software notwithstanding) for showing us how easy it is for any old armchair schlub to program major features - for free.

I think the exclusion of simple features (not the major ones) obstensibly to help bolster a sense of market segmentation comes across as artificial and contrived and is distasteful to most folk as a rationale to charge prices they consider to be outrageous (right or wrong).

As a business major with a job in marekting, you appear to admire Canon management. But, I think, as a customer, you are losing sight of who is the boss of things in a free market. As the customer, you have much of the power as long as you are willing to exercise your power (and as long as there is real competition). Just because Canon can pick your pocket doesn't mean you have to let them pick your pocket. (Another good reason for a dual platform.) :)

--
Rick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Mystery Gardner: "Rick, you have a passion for photography but not a position. That's a good thing." Various RAW comparisons at Link below. Includes 5D3 vs D800E (new uploads), 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc. https://app.box.com/s/71w40ita6hrcfghojaie
 
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