Jamie Benaud
Senior Member
Me? Buy a Canon? I think not.
I'm merely curious as to where this 'confirmation' came from!
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Confirmed: Canon sells more than Nikon
- Thread starter baruth
- Start date
I'm merely curious as to where this 'confirmation' came from!
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Jamie
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Trevor Kloeden
Senior Member
As some one who works with stats from time to time I can make them show what ever I want.
The rule of stats:-
"Come up with the answer then use stats to prove it"
Nikon users love their gear as much as Canon users love their gear...And so endth the lesson.
Trevor
The rule of stats:-
"Come up with the answer then use stats to prove it"
Nikon users love their gear as much as Canon users love their gear...And so endth the lesson.
Trevor
Iliah Borg
Forum Pro
105/2 DC, 135/2 DC, 200/4 micro, 12-24, 24-120VR, 135 Bellows - to name a few?
jean-Claude Monier
Leading Member
It is known that Toyota has been selling more than BMW. There have
been speculations as to why. After observing on many occasions,
where EBD can be used, I never saw any one used this feature.
Asked why not, the answer is always: good tire is better. Asked when
would they use it, the answer is: hardly ever.
So my conclusion is: the reason for this phenomenon of more Toyota
than BMW is this: I have suspected for long time, but now
confirmed: Toyota is cheaper. To be objective, I can't blame the
Toyotans for being Toyotans. For the same amount of money, they
get more. The EBD feature may be of very limited used, but it
doesn't hurt. One is hardpressed to find any difference in wheel
quality.
If BMW just lower its price to the same level of Toyota, they
would outsell Toyota easily.
JC
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France: http://www.pbase.com/jcmonier/
been speculations as to why. After observing on many occasions,
where EBD can be used, I never saw any one used this feature.
Asked why not, the answer is always: good tire is better. Asked when
would they use it, the answer is: hardly ever.
So my conclusion is: the reason for this phenomenon of more Toyota
than BMW is this: I have suspected for long time, but now
confirmed: Toyota is cheaper. To be objective, I can't blame the
Toyotans for being Toyotans. For the same amount of money, they
get more. The EBD feature may be of very limited used, but it
doesn't hurt. One is hardpressed to find any difference in wheel
quality.
If BMW just lower its price to the same level of Toyota, they
would outsell Toyota easily.
JC
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France: http://www.pbase.com/jcmonier/
............. you must experience the difference.
I believed all the stories about the cameras being basically the same and the image quality being indistinguishable and all that and I stayed away too long.
One must experience the differences, if one is susceptible then one sees a big difference.
I am currently using a 1D and a D100 and both get used and are producing excellent results, but the Canon system has me so bowled over it’s all I ever wanted a camera to do.
It is amazing the amount of people one meets on the Canon board that were Nikon but changed without any announcement of any description. Equally amazing is the vast amount who were E10 owners in the past and Olympus suffered a mass exodus which seems to have been divided (unofficially obviously) about 1/3rd to Nikon.
But Canon are shipping tiny unit numbers, 30,000 10Ds and 2,0001D/(s) a month I don't have Nikon's figures.
I believed all the stories about the cameras being basically the same and the image quality being indistinguishable and all that and I stayed away too long.
One must experience the differences, if one is susceptible then one sees a big difference.
I am currently using a 1D and a D100 and both get used and are producing excellent results, but the Canon system has me so bowled over it’s all I ever wanted a camera to do.
It is amazing the amount of people one meets on the Canon board that were Nikon but changed without any announcement of any description. Equally amazing is the vast amount who were E10 owners in the past and Olympus suffered a mass exodus which seems to have been divided (unofficially obviously) about 1/3rd to Nikon.
But Canon are shipping tiny unit numbers, 30,000 10Ds and 2,0001D/(s) a month
Michael in Atlanta
Leading Member
A D100 vs a 1D is hardly a fair comparison. I have never shot a D100 but I have shot 20K+ with a 1D. The 1D is truely an awesome camera and at 8fps it screams. However I find it lacking when I compare it to my D1x.
The 1D tends to hunt focus in low light where my D1x (and even my original D1) locks instantly as long as I can see the subject. While shooting sports the Canon will lose focus if something passes in front of the subject while panning. I can't even tell you how many shots I have lost on the 1D because another person ran in front of my subject. My Nikon doesn't.
Another thing that I have noticed is that the Canon tends to blow out the whites more than the Nikon. Especially at high ISO. I have shot with a Canon guy side by side at the same ISO, same shutter at F2.8 and same zoom. A 70-200 F2.8 on the 1D and an 80-200 F2.8 on my D1x. The Canon blew out the whites about 75% of the time while my Nikon nailed it about 90% of the time. The Canon guys response was "It is easer to bring down the whites than bring them up in PS." I asked him why not just get them right in the camera.
Finally, it is only an opinion but ergonomically the Nikon seems better thought out. I can make 90% of the minor adjustments on my D1x without ever moving my hand off the shutter. Too many 1D adjustments require 2 hands.
So if you are going to compare Canon to Nikon make the comparison then make it on like models!
The 1D tends to hunt focus in low light where my D1x (and even my original D1) locks instantly as long as I can see the subject. While shooting sports the Canon will lose focus if something passes in front of the subject while panning. I can't even tell you how many shots I have lost on the 1D because another person ran in front of my subject. My Nikon doesn't.
Another thing that I have noticed is that the Canon tends to blow out the whites more than the Nikon. Especially at high ISO. I have shot with a Canon guy side by side at the same ISO, same shutter at F2.8 and same zoom. A 70-200 F2.8 on the 1D and an 80-200 F2.8 on my D1x. The Canon blew out the whites about 75% of the time while my Nikon nailed it about 90% of the time. The Canon guys response was "It is easer to bring down the whites than bring them up in PS." I asked him why not just get them right in the camera.
Finally, it is only an opinion but ergonomically the Nikon seems better thought out. I can make 90% of the minor adjustments on my D1x without ever moving my hand off the shutter. Too many 1D adjustments require 2 hands.
So if you are going to compare Canon to Nikon make the comparison then make it on like models!
Jason Busch
Veteran Member
baruth,
Canon does sell more, but who keeps their cameras longer? I bet it's Nikon owners. Several bought a D60 less than a year ago and now bought a 10D. No wonder Canon is the leading company in camera sales.
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Canon does sell more, but who keeps their cameras longer? I bet it's Nikon owners. Several bought a D60 less than a year ago and now bought a 10D. No wonder Canon is the leading company in camera sales.
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http://www.digitaldingus.com
http://pub103.ezboard.com/bthedigitaldinguscommunity
Jerome Muffat
Well-known member
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http://www.hypernavigate.org
http://www.hypernavigate.org
Geez Gavin, I was just thinking the same thing about the Nikon crowd, but I tend to think of it as an inferiority complex being overcompensated for with an outward superiority complex. I think Nikon used to be the undisputed best up till around the mid-eighties, after that Canon started to be a threat and in some cases, have caught up and surpassed Nikon. i think it's nonsense to make a blanket statement that Nikon is the best when there is no real evidence of this. Both companies make fine products and both have weaknesses.
this is purely subjective, one's preferences cannot be quantified as fact.
Keep dreaming. It's good for you.
Jonathan, for once I agree with you!
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inhousephoto inc. digital • photography • media
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Group Idiot
Senior Member
Canon has both 105/2 and 135/2L lenses, but not with a Defocus Controller. They do make a decent 135/2.8 with a "soft focus" adjuster, and it's only $300 or something. However, both 105/2 and 135/2L are USM lenses -- think AF-S. Canon's 135/2L is sharper than the Nikon counterpart (who'da thunkit?), especially wide open (check Photodo MTF to confirm).
I don't know if any macro will ever stand aside Nikon's venerable 200/4 Micro, but Canon's 180/3.5L Macro USM surely isn't far behind -- if at all -- and it has USM too and is a schweet lens in it's own right.
Nikon's 12-24/DX lens stands apart. Canon has no "made-to-fit" dSLR lens for smaller sensors, but they do have cameras that will give that effect and more in the 1D/s, but you will need to ante up. Even the 1D, with it's 1.3x crop, will make a 14mm lens roughly the same as the 12-24 wide open. If you're a D100/10D-class shooter this is bad news. If you're a D1/1D-class shooter it becomes moot.
As far as the 24-120/VR, Canon has had their 28-135/IS for quite some time. I would view those two as direct competitors, but the Nikon may be slightly more usable with a noticeably wider angle.
Why people argue about the gear is beyond me. It's like BMW vs. Mercedes vs. Lexus vs. Jaguar vs....
If you prefer one over the other, and someone else prefers differently, why should it be adversarial?
Brendan
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Equipment list in profile -- where it BELONGS!
v_
Senior Member
I'm getting so sick of this cr@p!
When will this end?
Viktor
When will this end?
Viktor
two of my friends are planning to buy the 10D right now, one has only FM2 and a couple of MF lenese, the other has a Sony 707. The ONLY reason they are considering canon is because it's CHEAPER. i suspect that's the case for most 10D buyers, because for the price difference at least they can get a 50/1.8II together with their 10D for the same price of a D100. canon has the advantage of using their home-made cheaper cmos sensors versus nikon's more pricy ccd sensors which they have to buy from others.
After all you get what you pay for. going canon you will be using their cmos machines, going fuji you will be using super-ccd machines and with nikon, you get to use what nikon choose to use (currently sony). personally i prefer choices, with the F mount you have at least three different CCD makers but with canon their home-made cmos is the only choice at the moment, with the exception of 1D which is using sony ccd as well. 10D's advantage is CHEAPER and has better long time exposure, but i constantly get scared by the thought that i will be using cmos machines for unknow years if i go canon...
boss' 1Ds buying plan got postponed at the moment, 'cos the quality still far from slides drum-scanned...
After all you get what you pay for. going canon you will be using their cmos machines, going fuji you will be using super-ccd machines and with nikon, you get to use what nikon choose to use (currently sony). personally i prefer choices, with the F mount you have at least three different CCD makers but with canon their home-made cmos is the only choice at the moment, with the exception of 1D which is using sony ccd as well. 10D's advantage is CHEAPER and has better long time exposure, but i constantly get scared by the thought that i will be using cmos machines for unknow years if i go canon...
boss' 1Ds buying plan got postponed at the moment, 'cos the quality still far from slides drum-scanned...
I hear a great deal of jaw jacking about who's camera is better. I say it is the talent behind that makes the image. Just because you own a Ferrari........doesn't make you a formula 1 driver. If you don't have the talent, and the knowledge it really doesn't matter what camera you own. The problem is that a lot of people think the more they spend the better they are at photography. Today the camera is capable of doing most of the work for you (if you choose to do it that way) thus, the less they need to know. Does that make them a good photographer? NO! If you can't take a Pentax K1000 and make really great images with it, well then in my opinion your a wanna-be photographer. If you don't know what a K1000 is then your probably fairly young.
Go take some pictures would ya!
http://www.rodenroth.photoreflect.com
Go take some pictures would ya!
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http://www.rodenroth.photoreflect.com
Firstly the Eos is not a low light sensitive as the Nikon are, point to Nikon here. But the refocusing element can be controlled in the personal setting or custom functions (somewhere) that is the priority to refocus or to ignore subjects that pass in front.
Between the two, I find I want fast refocusing and the Nikon won’t do this, the delay is much longer for the Nikon and one has no setting to change it.
The Canon setting are fabulous but demerited by being too awkward to change IMO.
No, my sample is a late 1D, I have several early sample that do this, mine is certainly better than my D1x was, but then I had an early D1x
Actually I was not making any comparisons at all and in fact I sold my D1x and the 1D has it totally outclassed in every department bar low light AF in A1 servo. Nonetheless the 1D has amble controls but they need to be rewired to work more intelligently. That massive rear wheel does almost nothing at all and it could so easily control a plethora of other and additional functions. Actually coming from an F4 ~ both cameras suck for two handed control, the main reason I never owned an F5 film body, the F4 was a one handed control macine and needed only refinement.
We all agree with you on all you said. The issue here is why Canon has been selling more than Nikon. They are both good products.
baruth
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baruth
Thom Hogan
Forum Pro
Actually, I've heard Canon say two different things:
1. Canon expects to ship 300,000 DSLR units in 2003. That would be an average of 25k units a month. That would also be almost exactly 50% of the average forecast of total DSLR sales.
2. Canon is shipping 30,000 DSLRs a month at the moment. That figure includes the 10D, the 1D, and the 1Ds.
Nikon has been more quiet about numbers (and always has been). At one point late last year there was an indication that they were shipping 20,000 DSLRs a month, and I haven't seen any slip in their sales--if anything, they've increased (and Nikon is publicly claiming they will achieve a 100% increase in DSLR sales this year over last). The best number I can come up with at present is an expectation to ship at least 250,000 units in 2003. This would give Nikon 42% of the market to Canon's 50%, if we are to believe all the numbers. In 2002 I believe those numbers were reversed. But if you add in Fujifilm's and Kodak's numbers, the Nikon/Canon DSLR split is essentially split at the moment.
In short, I don't believe that either Nikon or Canon is unsatisfied with their share of the DSLR market at the moment.
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Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guides to the Nikon D100, D1, D1h, & D1x and Fujifilm S2
http://www.bythom.com
That's an easy one to answer..........
MARKETING!
Very few things today have to do with quality or craftmanship anymore........it's all about marketing. That is why these companies spend millions each year to spread the name.
http://www.rodenroth.photoreflect.com
MARKETING!
Very few things today have to do with quality or craftmanship anymore........it's all about marketing. That is why these companies spend millions each year to spread the name.
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http://www.rodenroth.photoreflect.com
Iliah Borg
Forum Pro
I know those Canon lenses, but what I use is pro DC, not soft focus lens of semi-pro quality. And I really need 105, especially for dSLR.
Where I do not need DC, I use 105/1.8 MF lens, which IMHO is really something, and 135/2 MF (but do not go to smaller then f/8). Electronic focus confirmation is a great thing, BTW.
And have you ever tried 200/2 wide-open to 2.8, or 180/2.8 at 4? Or another Zonnar from Nikon - 135/2.8 at 4 - 5.6? IMHO you would like it.
Re MTF - was it measured for one single lens, or on several lenses? Are data updated regulary?
Some time ago I've made the side -to- side comparison. The Canon sample I was given performed really good in terms of resolution. Colour and contrast were not so good for me as with Nikkor. I used same films, and shoot colour and b/w.
Mine is D1, and when I tried 1Ds w/wide lenses, I had some strange colour contour around thin objects, especially off-center of the image.
Actually, I love photography, not the equipment. But I'm very thankful for all those Praktikas, Nikons, Contaxes, Leicas, Hasselblads, Saluts/Kievs, Sinars, Linhofs, and Horizons (panorama cameras, similar to Noblex) that are/were making me happy and my customers paying
N
Negative287
Guest
That's alright... Packard Bell is the example of what happens to a company that pays more attention to Marketing then they do Quality! They had to buy NEC and Dissolve Packard Bell because people got tired of buying PC's that cheap and unreliable!
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