Shooting with a friend as a model. Advice please?

Hello!

So here is the situation (right into the subject)

I asked my friend to model for me for autumn theme. I'm trying to enter a photo contest in my college with what I get. the prize is only 25$ but that's not the point haha.

Anyway, she don't have any experience in modeling and posing and i have almost no experience in portraiture!

i did shootings for simple events but those are just quick shots and are not really mastered to the artistic point except for the unique expressions that i "might" get.

Here is a list of what i use as a guild line to take portraits:

1-give the subject looking area. (when my subject is looking left i give more space on the left than the right)

2-Zoom in and step back. better perspective for faces.

3-Stay under shadow or make the sun fully ahead or behind the subject.

4-maybe golden hours would make my pictures much better. sunset time would emphasis autumn very well.

posing - i can show my model herself in the camera while taking a picture with a phone or ipad by wireless tethering. This might really help her posing. but i would really love to see ideas! i looked up some of the forum pictures and i formed an idea about posing.

I still need an advice though! even if you were to give a personal experience.

Gear - canon 6d + tamron 24-70 2.8. i can borrow my uncle's canon 24-105 f4 for the extra reach. though i wish i had the 85 1.8 to get better subject isolation oh well that's not an option now.


here is what the place might look like. (i can scout for more places though). Although i am confident with my landscape photography skills, i am not confident with portraits.. x_x

Try to get as much isolation between the model and the background as possible, foilage and trees should not be visible as anything than large, blurred blobs of colour. This means a fully open aperture and the longest focal length you can lay your hands on (under 300 mm), but of course the contact with the model is also important, and shouting your instructions is not good for that. The 70-200 f/2.8 is a popular portrait lens for a reason.

Avoid branches that seem to grow out of the model's head.

When cropping, don't cut in the model's joints (knees, elbows) and never cut in the outmost part of the limb (feet, hands).

Turn the model's shoulders 45 degrees (+/-) to the camera instead of having them square on.

Use fill flash or a reflector to fill the shadows.

Depending on what you want to tell, the model does not have to look into the lens, but it can often be an advantage. "The eyes are the window to the soul", so if you want a connection between the viewer and the model, eye contact is important.

If you include hands, take care to instruct the model to keep fingers slightly bent.

These are guidelines, not rules, use them as a starting point and disregard them if they don't work for you.

This article by Sara Lando on the strobist's blog is one of the best intros to handling models that I know of.

Good luck and happy shooting - and please show your results.

Klaus dk said:

Try to get as much isolation between the model and the background as possible, foilage and trees should not be visible as anything than large, blurred blobs of colour. This means a fully open aperture and the longest focal length you can lay your hands on (under 300 mm), but of course the contact with the model is also important, and shouting your instructions is not good for that. The 70-200 f/2.8 is a popular portrait lens for a reason.

Avoid branches that seem to grow out of the model's head.

When cropping, don't cut in the model's joints (knees, elbows) and never cut in the outmost part of the limb (feet, hands).

Turn the model's shoulders 45 degrees (+/-) to the camera instead of having them square on.

Use fill flash or a reflector to fill the shadows.

Depending on what you want to tell, the model does not have to look into the lens, but it can often be an advantage. "The eyes are the window to the soul", so if you want a connection between the viewer and the model, eye contact is important.

If you include hands, take care to instruct the model to keep fingers slightly bent.

These are guidelines, not rules, use them as a starting point and disregard them if they don't work for you.

This article by Sara Lando on the strobist's blog is one of the best intros to handling models that I know of.

Good luck and happy shooting - and please show your results.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed reply.

As I mentioned i have only the tamron 24-70 f2.8 (i also own a tokina 16-28 which is a "no no" for portraits) and i can borrow a 24-105 f4. I am not sure which to choose. Even though the f4 lens would isolate less, the extra reach will help in getting a similar narrow depth of field. Still not sure which to use so i will take both.

Thanks for the guild lines, i will try to remember those. I will try experimenting too

The shooting will be in Tuesday so expect the results in Wednesday

Never mind all the equipment crap.

Be prepared to work with your friend for up to a year, explain that you are as new to this as she is, that it will be as much an experiment for you as for her.

Be prepared to make crap to begin with and offer encouragement all the time, this will help you as much as her.

Find out by close observation what sort of poser she will become, quiet and introspective or brash and over the top and all points in between.

If for instance she says she would llike to do some dance type poses, go to Google images and download and print off some pose sheets for her to look at, this will give you both something to work from.

Rest assured that you or her will not be able to copy the poses exactly, she will have her own clothes you will have your chosen background and the results will be unique to both of you. You will be doing what artists have done for centuries.

Their will come a moment when you realise that you have both become artists and are no longer just a photographer and a model.

It's a wonderful journey towards a body of work that you both will be so proud of.

Cheers - Jim

MyOwnSoul said:

Hello!

So here is the situation (right into the subject)

I asked my friend to model for me for autumn theme. I'm trying to enter a photo contest in my college with what I get. the prize is only 25$ but that's not the point haha.

Anyway, she don't have any experience in modeling and posing and i have almost no experience in portraiture!

i did shootings for simple events but those are just quick shots and are not really mastered to the artistic point except for the unique expressions that i "might" get.

Here is a list of what i use as a guild line to take portraits:

1-give the subject looking area. (when my subject is looking left i give more space on the left than the right)

2-Zoom in and step back. better perspective for faces.

3-Stay under shadow or make the sun fully ahead or behind the subject.

4-maybe golden hours would make my pictures much better. sunset time would emphasis autumn very well.

posing - i can show my model herself in the camera while taking a picture with a phone or ipad by wireless tethering. This might really help her posing. but i would really love to see ideas! i looked up some of the forum pictures and i formed an idea about posing.

I still need an advice though! even if you were to give a personal experience.

Gear - canon 6d + tamron 24-70 2.8. i can borrow my uncle's canon 24-105 f4 for the extra reach. though i wish i had the 85 1.8 to get better subject isolation oh well that's not an option now.

Click to expand...

Quite frankly, I think that for a first time attempt to do anything in the direction of portraiture you are way overdoing it, and on top of that in a completely wrong way

Your approach is like how you would shoot a landscape, ticking of a list of possible mainly technical issues you might encounter (based on what you read about it) and contemplating the possible technical solutions, basically without having to take the landscape itself into account, as it's simply there, and will remain there, stoically, unchanged, suffering in silence, without being influenced by possible personal doubts and insecurities (and absolutely not like a real life person will), while you are tinkering along with the technique to hopefully get your ideal picture in the end

IMO first and foremost you must realize you are shooting a live person, and as far as 'modeling' is concerned a complete inexperienced one on top of that. So rather then 'direct' her, you will have to coach her, comfort her, put her so much at ease that she'll hopefully show a glimp of her personality in front of the camera which made you ask her in the first place when she not in front of it

So I think you should not so much first think about how to shoot her, but rather of what you want to shoot, and how to get her in the mindset to hopefully shoot and end up with something which resembles with what you had in mind

That's completely lacking in in what you describe now.

IMO rather then giving a list of what technical stuff you want to use to shoot a picture of your model with, you should give a selection of (links) of pictures which you would love to maybe more or less emulate, or at least inspire you

Sure, based on that technical tips can be given regarding lenses, type of light, time of day (in case of a daylightshoot) and possible settings of camera and lens, and of the best shooting position

But more important you yourself should based on those examples get a better idea of the mood of the pictures you want to shoot, hopefully be able to communicate that to your model, but at least recognize that mood when it happens in front of the camera so you'll be able to catch that fleeting moment as is passes (much like Cartier Bresson's 'Moment Decisive')

As far as the model is concerned, since you are shooting with a completely inexperienced model, I strongly recommend to completely forget about posing. Not only won't she know what to do, but as you yourself don't have any experience with it I strongly doubt you'll be able to give useful directions. And giving her instantaneous feedback by phone or Ipad while shooting won't help either, it will only make her even more self conscious, and freeze up. Otherwise you're more then likely will end up with a model forced in all kind of unnatural poses, and basically unrecognizable from the spontaneous living creature she no doubt is in real life (after all, if she wasn't, you most likely would not have asked her)

Since you're asking for personal experiences, and to illustrate that everybody has to start somewhere at one point, I posted a few of the pictures of a) literally the very first time I went out to try and shoot something more then just some snapshots, and with a 'real' camera on top (a Canon FT/QL I borrowed from my older brother who was a member of a 'real' if only local photographic society) and b) of my very first 'model' shoot (actually just someone I knew from highschool, way back in the early 70's)

http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/1973_portraits_old

Not having an idea what to shoot, I ended up at the local cafe where we as highschool kids used to hang out. Saw this old schoolfriend and snapped some shots ( a.o img 747) while she was talking to someone. Nothing special. unsharp, unflattering light, but basically she got used to having an idiot around who was snapping away while I was trying to get an idea what I wanted to shoot.

A little later we went for a walk and ended up at the central townsquare where we sat down at a terrace for a drink. When she was rummaging through her bag, I snapped picture 749, which I in retrospect see as my first attempt to shoot something like a 'portrait'.

A few weeks later I decided to do a 'serious' attempt into portraiture and asked another girl I knew from highschool. Again my brother allowed me to use his camera, and a 85mm on top (although I didn't have the faintest idea why he advised me to use that lens). As I still didn't know how to do shoot, let alone a 'modelshoot', we ended up just taking a stroll down a lane behind her house, where she at some point sat down in the grass, and I sat down in front of her to be able to shoot some portrait like shots. While we chatted about all kinds of nonsense (having hung out at the same highschool we had enough gossip to go through), I snapped away when I thought I saw 'something'.

Picture 751 is one of the two contactsheets of the one and a half films I shot (back in the film days you didn't take hundreds of pictures during a shoot, one, maybe two would have to be enough as you would also have to develop, contact and print them!). As you can see she's not really posing, but instead of that just talking, or looking in all kinds of directions, and in some pictures clearly feeling uncomfortable.

Eventually the picture I selected was Img 756. by today's taste a very 1970's picture, but by the taste of those days quite well received, and looking back a picture I still hold dearly.

Yet I hope you can see how much the 'models' are at ease in the pictures, and how without worrying about what to do technically ( and in those days we didn't have the near instantaneous feedback ot todays DSLR's) I still ended up with some IMO interesting pictures.

So just try to make your model feel at ease, don't worry to much about the tech stuff, and just shoot, talk, make your model feel comfortable, forget about 'the pictures' being shot, and shoot

--
all in a day's work

http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/

We all have to begin somewhere. Trying to offer some positive help, mechanics first and posing later:

There is no real rule on focal length, but in my experience most photographers prefer longer lenses for portraits. Don't be afraid to experiment, but I suggest you borrow the 24-105 just in case.

Keep in mind subject to background distance and subject to camera distance. These determine the subject-background relationships such as how large the subject appears in relation to the background. Don't be shy about moving the camera or your model around - nearer, farther, left, right or whatever. Don't forget you can raise or lower the camera. You can kneel on your knees, sit down or even lie down. (I frequently come in from an outdoor session with the knees of my pants dirty or stained.) Come to think of it, you can have the model kneel or sit. I sometimes carry a chair in my van.

Once you find good working distances the zoom determines the cropping. Don't be afraid to try different crops. Remember walking closer or away is not the same as zooming in or out. You may want to try both in some setups.

I like your background example. I'd work with the model in relation to the arched shape and hte path. (Side note: Things change quickly this time of year. Don't expect this setting to look the same next week. It may be better or worse, but it will be different.)

As to posing, take your time and be gentle.

Get your model approximately in place, then let her move within that area. Very often an inexperienced model will be stiff at first, the silly and clowning around, and finally relax into more normal behavior. Actually any of theses stages can make good photos, but the relaxed state is usually most productive. At some point, probably less than an hour, your model will become tire or bored and fade out. This can be a productive time and give some photos with a quieter mood, but it won't last long.

I don't like to give too much mechanical direction. I'm more likely to talk about mood, maybe set up a scene and see how the model moves into it. Once I have a natural mood I like then I may move a hand slightly or ask the model to shift her eyes or chin to get the face as I want it.

Allow plenty of time, but don't push it too far if your subject becomes tired or bored. You may get it in 5 minutes, it may take an hour or more. And shoot too much, but shoot smart. Think about every shot, if only for a half second. Think about the model's expression, the pose, the camera angle - can you make it just a little better? It can be a pain to edit files down, but that's a lot better than sitting at the computer thinking "I wish I'd tried a little different angle here." Or "I should have worked that attitude harder." If I don't have at least 100 to 150 frames from a session like this I'm left wondering if I worked hard enough or tried everything I should have. (Some people shoot much less, some even more. You'll find what works for you over time, but starting out shoot plenty. I never worry about shooting too much, but I do worry about shooting dumb or carelessly.)

Preparation and planning before the session:

Think about light before you set a time. You don't want your subject squinting into the sun, but you may not want to deal with extreme backlight either. Open shade or a cloudy day are easiest to work with if you can arrange it. Since you're new to this you probably don't want the distraction of fill flash or a reflector, either, but it would be good to have a reflector available - and someone to hold it or at least a stand.

Plan the wardrobe. Get together with your friend to think about colors and styles and maybe even let her try on clothes. I like to have at 3 or 4 outfits available and shoot at least 2.

Check your gear. Be sure everything is working and your batteries are freshly charged. It is good to have at least one extra camera battery. If you're using a flash that's another set of spare batteries. Be sure you have plenty of memory.

Check the weather forecast. No point in going out in freezing rain unless you have to. I like to scout the location a day or two in advnace at the same time of day I plan to shoot. On the day of I'll get there a half hour or more early to scout again. I always like to have a backup location in mind just in case. (I once arrived at a location to find another photographer had set up a tent, generator and lighting for an extended shoot of a large wedding party. Stuff happens.)

Good luck.

Gato

@jimread

thanks for the advice!

However, this might be my first and last time with this friend to shoot with. I am doing this specifically for a contest in my college. the theme is Autumn. due 21st Nov.

I might enter different contests in the future but this is also my first time entering a contest. after all i am just a hobbyist not a professional.

@Paul P K

As you said, this approach was missing in my category! i highly appreciate the time and thought you give to this reply.

I think because my friend knows that I've been a photographer for a while she might be comfortable with me shooting her. Once she start getting stiff, i will try to make her comfortable.

Also, thank you for sharing your experience with the forums, I find this particularly useful.

@Gato Amarillo

i took a note of every point!

About clothes, i think she's very good in dressing herself up. also i don't have access to a changing room except for my house - her house.

I am actually learning and the results of my shooting might become much better than i expect to be. I am aware of points that i have never thought of before.

Especially in comforting my model, that point is really critical.

Klaus dk said:

Try to get as much isolation between the model and the background as possible, foilage and trees should not be visible as anything than large, blurred blobs of colour. This means a fully open aperture and the longest focal length you can lay your hands on (under 300 mm), but of course the contact with the model is also important, and shouting your instructions is not good for that. The 70-200 f/2.8 is a popular portrait lens for a reason.

Avoid branches that seem to grow out of the model's head.

When cropping, don't cut in the model's joints (knees, elbows) and never cut in the outmost part of the limb (feet, hands).

Turn the model's shoulders 45 degrees (+/-) to the camera instead of having them square on.

Use fill flash or a reflector to fill the shadows.

Depending on what you want to tell, the model does not have to look into the lens, but it can often be an advantage. "The eyes are the window to the soul", so if you want a connection between the viewer and the model, eye contact is important.

If you include hands, take care to instruct the model to keep fingers slightly bent.

These are guidelines, not rules, use them as a starting point and disregard them if they don't work for you.

This article by Sara Lando on the strobist's blog is one of the best intros to handling models that I know of.

Good luck and happy shooting - and please show your results.

Click to expand...

Great list of "rules" and link.

Here are a couple I really like.

Your location photo is beautiful! Unlike other suggestions, since you are shooting a theme and not merely a portrait, I think a model-in-nature will work very well for the contest. This means stopping down, maybe to f5.6-f11, to make sure the background is not out-of-focus very much. You don't want a blob or blur or strong bokeh because of the theme of the contest. You need to bring the foliage into play, at least that's what I would look for if judging the contest.

Even more critical is that your friend select clothing compatible with the location--solid colors will work better, I think. A muted red dress (not hot pink), for example, to help emphasize fall colors. As others have noted, move around (both of you). If you do stop down, make sure she doesn't have twigs growing from her head or body. On the other hand, shoot throughout the range of f-stops so that you have a good selection Achieve separation by having her stand or sit further away from the foliage, as others have suggested, rather than relying on wider apertures. And as suggested, vary your distance from her as well.