brightcolours
Veteran Member
That is because you think shadows should remain shadows! Latest craze apparently is to pull shadows up at least 4 stops and dislike blacks and darks vehemently.
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How "bad" is the DR on 6D in practical conditions?
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brightcolours
Veteran Member
Kinda
No, it did not. Kodachrome is pretty contrasty. With d2.2 it had s DR of about 7 stops, more like 6 stops in practice.
Yes, it did. Not bland and contrastless, like 12 stops of DR would suggest.
Why?
brightcolours
Veteran Member
On the interwebs kodachrome gets said to have 12 stops DR, that is where that misconception comes from.
In reality, more like 4-6 stops for slide film, 8-10 stops for colour negative film, and 6-14 stops for bw film depending on what type of film one chooses.
Great Bustard
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GB SMASH! :-D
I've seen it said that it's around 12 stops.
Silverfast makes software to scan all sorts of negatives and they have a Kodachrome preset. They have measured it at around 12 stops.
Rick Knepper
Veteran Member
I can see how this is possible. I didn't view the video. I can also see how there might be more than one speculative explanation for this.
brightcolours
Veteran Member
I know, I have seen that said too. Does not make it so, though. Kodachrome is very contrasty colour positive slide film.
Oh yes - I know. Used it for many years before switching to Velvia.
This is what they say regarding scanning the positives to capture the full range of the transparency ...
"Scanning Kodachromes with attention to recording the complete Dynamic Range is a considerable challenge. This, because the Dynamic Range reaches up to 3.8D - which is a grayscale range of 6300 shades and equals a contrast range of 1:6300!"
I believe that equates to around 12 stops.
Of course, Contrast and Dynamic Range are not exactly the same thing. ;-)
brightcolours
Veteran Member
I have the feeling the scanning people are a little confused. One can't judge the captured DR from scanning some slide. Fact is, Kodachrome is a high contrast old film, and does not have anywhere near the DR of 12 stops...Oh yes - I know. Used it for many years before switching to Velvia.
This is what they say regarding scanning the positives to capture the full range of the transparency ...
"Scanning Kodachromes with attention to recording the complete Dynamic Range is a considerable challenge. This, because the Dynamic Range reaches up to 3.8D - which is a grayscale range of 6300 shades and equals a contrast range of 1:6300!"
I believe that equates to around 12 stops.
Of course, Contrast and Dynamic Range are not exactly the same thing. ;-)
Yes, there is a direct link to how contrasty a film is, and how high the DR is. High DR by definition has a high white point and a low black point, and the tones inbetween by definition are not very contrasty. A film's "shoulder" can make DR look slightly higher than it is, too.
Unless the DR of the scene being captured is known, it would be difficult to determine how much DR has been captured in the final result. And contrast is not necessarily a guide. But my feeling from using it for many years is that it would certainly have been more than 6 or 7 stops. But it's a long time ago.I have the feeling the scanning people are a little confused. One can't judge the captured DR from scanning some slide. Fact is, Kodachrome is a high contrast old film, and does not have anywhere near the DR of 12 stops...Oh yes - I know. Used it for many years before switching to Velvia.
This is what they say regarding scanning the positives to capture the full range of the transparency ...
"Scanning Kodachromes with attention to recording the complete Dynamic Range is a considerable challenge. This, because the Dynamic Range reaches up to 3.8D - which is a grayscale range of 6300 shades and equals a contrast range of 1:6300!"
I believe that equates to around 12 stops.
Of course, Contrast and Dynamic Range are not exactly the same thing. ;-)
Yes, there is a direct link to how contrasty a film is, and how high the DR is. High DR by definition has a high white point and a low black point, and the tones inbetween by definition are not very contrasty. A film's "shoulder" can make DR look slightly higher than it is, too.
BTW - where did you get your figures from? ("With d2.2 it had s DR of about 7 stops, more like 6 stops in practice.") They are not in agreement with the figures I can find out there.
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brightcolours
Veteran Member
Well, it actually is...Unless the DR of the scene being captured is known, it would be difficult to determine how much DR has been captured in the final result. And contrast is not necessarily a guide.I have the feeling the scanning people are a little confused. One can't judge the captured DR from scanning some slide. Fact is, Kodachrome is a high contrast old film, and does not have anywhere near the DR of 12 stops...Oh yes - I know. Used it for many years before switching to Velvia.
This is what they say regarding scanning the positives to capture the full range of the transparency ...
"Scanning Kodachromes with attention to recording the complete Dynamic Range is a considerable challenge. This, because the Dynamic Range reaches up to 3.8D - which is a grayscale range of 6300 shades and equals a contrast range of 1:6300!"
I believe that equates to around 12 stops.
Of course, Contrast and Dynamic Range are not exactly the same thing. ;-)
Yes, there is a direct link to how contrasty a film is, and how high the DR is. High DR by definition has a high white point and a low black point, and the tones inbetween by definition are not very contrasty. A film's "shoulder" can make DR look slightly higher than it is, too.
It is a colour positive film, and those "always" had a low DR or 5 to 6 stops. That is what made them (slides) so popular, by the way, the contrast, the colours.But my feeling from using it for many years is that it would certainly have been more than 6 or 7 stops. But it's a long time ago.
Loading…
www.kodak.com
The log exposure in the characteristic curves chart.
And, upon further searching, here is a useful little table too ...Well, it actually is...Unless the DR of the scene being captured is known, it would be difficult to determine how much DR has been captured in the final result. And contrast is not necessarily a guide.I have the feeling the scanning people are a little confused. One can't judge the captured DR from scanning some slide. Fact is, Kodachrome is a high contrast old film, and does not have anywhere near the DR of 12 stops...Oh yes - I know. Used it for many years before switching to Velvia.
This is what they say regarding scanning the positives to capture the full range of the transparency ...
"Scanning Kodachromes with attention to recording the complete Dynamic Range is a considerable challenge. This, because the Dynamic Range reaches up to 3.8D - which is a grayscale range of 6300 shades and equals a contrast range of 1:6300!"
I believe that equates to around 12 stops.
Of course, Contrast and Dynamic Range are not exactly the same thing. ;-)
Yes, there is a direct link to how contrasty a film is, and how high the DR is. High DR by definition has a high white point and a low black point, and the tones inbetween by definition are not very contrasty. A film's "shoulder" can make DR look slightly higher than it is, too.
It is a colour positive film, and those "always" had a low DR or 5 to 6 stops. That is what made them (slides) so popular, by the way, the contrast, the colours.But my feeling from using it for many years is that it would certainly have been more than 6 or 7 stops. But it's a long time ago.
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/pdf/e88.pdf
The log exposure in the characteristic curves chart.
It's a bit old now, but most of it is still relevant, of course.
It seems that Silverfast are right too - but they are concerned with scanning and that brings different considerations it seem.
I'm sure Velvia would be less than Kodachrome - and I loved that film. And this explains why I've never really struggled with the DR of my cameras over the last ten years.
brightcolours
Veteran Member
Well, then I guess Kodachrome results always have been wrong, and Kodak is wrong about their filmAnd, upon further searching, here is a useful little table too ...Well, it actually is...Unless the DR of the scene being captured is known, it would be difficult to determine how much DR has been captured in the final result. And contrast is not necessarily a guide.I have the feeling the scanning people are a little confused. One can't judge the captured DR from scanning some slide. Fact is, Kodachrome is a high contrast old film, and does not have anywhere near the DR of 12 stops...Oh yes - I know. Used it for many years before switching to Velvia.
This is what they say regarding scanning the positives to capture the full range of the transparency ...
"Scanning Kodachromes with attention to recording the complete Dynamic Range is a considerable challenge. This, because the Dynamic Range reaches up to 3.8D - which is a grayscale range of 6300 shades and equals a contrast range of 1:6300!"
I believe that equates to around 12 stops.
Of course, Contrast and Dynamic Range are not exactly the same thing. ;-)
Yes, there is a direct link to how contrasty a film is, and how high the DR is. High DR by definition has a high white point and a low black point, and the tones inbetween by definition are not very contrasty. A film's "shoulder" can make DR look slightly higher than it is, too.
It is a colour positive film, and those "always" had a low DR or 5 to 6 stops. That is what made them (slides) so popular, by the way, the contrast, the colours.But my feeling from using it for many years is that it would certainly have been more than 6 or 7 stops. But it's a long time ago.
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/pdf/e88.pdf
The log exposure in the characteristic curves chart.
It's a bit old now, but most of it is still relevant, of course.
It seems that Silverfast are right too - but they are concerned with scanning and that brings different considerations it seem.
I'm sure Velvia would be less than Kodachrome - and I loved that film. And this explains why I've never really struggled with the DR of my cameras over the last ten years.
(see above Kodak PDF).
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Really?Well, then I guess Kodachrome results always have been wrong, and Kodak is wrong about their filmAnd, upon further searching, here is a useful little table too ...Well, it actually is...Unless the DR of the scene being captured is known, it would be difficult to determine how much DR has been captured in the final result. And contrast is not necessarily a guide.I have the feeling the scanning people are a little confused. One can't judge the captured DR from scanning some slide. Fact is, Kodachrome is a high contrast old film, and does not have anywhere near the DR of 12 stops...Oh yes - I know. Used it for many years before switching to Velvia.
This is what they say regarding scanning the positives to capture the full range of the transparency ...
"Scanning Kodachromes with attention to recording the complete Dynamic Range is a considerable challenge. This, because the Dynamic Range reaches up to 3.8D - which is a grayscale range of 6300 shades and equals a contrast range of 1:6300!"
I believe that equates to around 12 stops.
Of course, Contrast and Dynamic Range are not exactly the same thing. ;-)
Yes, there is a direct link to how contrasty a film is, and how high the DR is. High DR by definition has a high white point and a low black point, and the tones inbetween by definition are not very contrasty. A film's "shoulder" can make DR look slightly higher than it is, too.
It is a colour positive film, and those "always" had a low DR or 5 to 6 stops. That is what made them (slides) so popular, by the way, the contrast, the colours.But my feeling from using it for many years is that it would certainly have been more than 6 or 7 stops. But it's a long time ago.
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/pdf/e88.pdf
The log exposure in the characteristic curves chart.
It's a bit old now, but most of it is still relevant, of course.
It seems that Silverfast are right too - but they are concerned with scanning and that brings different considerations it seem.
I'm sure Velvia would be less than Kodachrome - and I loved that film. And this explains why I've never really struggled with the DR of my cameras over the last ten years.
You can't be seriously implying that Kodak know better than my memory of something from twenty years ago! I won't stand for it! ;-)
After all, Kodak almost went out of business but I'm still going strong! Hehe.
(Shame, though, that it took 7% of this thread to coax the information from you - would've been a lot better if you'd just posted this to start with BC)
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Albert Silver
Veteran Member
I have a tip for you guys: in a thread that branches off left and right, with over 100 posts, 100 identical titles do nothing to inform who is discussing what, or unveil new info. Consider using the subject to describe new content for example. I.e. "DR table of different films" etc.
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And now we have two more useless posts in this thread! ;-)
brightcolours
Veteran Member
How about this?
The Davinator
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That table sums it up very well. Here is a link to a step wedge test showing a good 18 stops with Tmax 400. You can however get far more than 10.5 stops with Tri-X using dilute devloper solution and stand processing....closer to 16 stops as Bruce Barnbaum tested in his book.And, upon further searching, here is a useful little table too ...Well, it actually is...Unless the DR of the scene being captured is known, it would be difficult to determine how much DR has been captured in the final result. And contrast is not necessarily a guide.I have the feeling the scanning people are a little confused. One can't judge the captured DR from scanning some slide. Fact is, Kodachrome is a high contrast old film, and does not have anywhere near the DR of 12 stops...Oh yes - I know. Used it for many years before switching to Velvia.
This is what they say regarding scanning the positives to capture the full range of the transparency ...
"Scanning Kodachromes with attention to recording the complete Dynamic Range is a considerable challenge. This, because the Dynamic Range reaches up to 3.8D - which is a grayscale range of 6300 shades and equals a contrast range of 1:6300!"
I believe that equates to around 12 stops.
Of course, Contrast and Dynamic Range are not exactly the same thing. ;-)
Yes, there is a direct link to how contrasty a film is, and how high the DR is. High DR by definition has a high white point and a low black point, and the tones inbetween by definition are not very contrasty. A film's "shoulder" can make DR look slightly higher than it is, too.
It is a colour positive film, and those "always" had a low DR or 5 to 6 stops. That is what made them (slides) so popular, by the way, the contrast, the colours.But my feeling from using it for many years is that it would certainly have been more than 6 or 7 stops. But it's a long time ago.
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/pdf/e88.pdf
The log exposure in the characteristic curves chart.
It's a bit old now, but most of it is still relevant, of course.
It seems that Silverfast are right too - but they are concerned with scanning and that brings different considerations it seem.
I'm sure Velvia would be less than Kodachrome - and I loved that film. And this explains why I've never really struggled with the DR of my cameras over the last ten years.
Loading…
www.virtuallygrey.co.uk
you are correct ...i never thought about it like that but yes i like to have shadows ..nice photo, MX5/Miata/Eunos?That is because you think shadows should remain shadows! Latest craze apparently is to pull shadows up at least 4 stops and dislike blacks and darks vehemently.
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