some rumors about future p&s

Snapa - Understand the can wait thing. The Stylus 1 is the closest thing yet to the fixed lens camera I have been waiting on for years. And I had not been following gear much in the last few years and almost missed seeing it. If it had an optical viewfinder instead of the evf, it would have been basically perfect. I am a strong fan of the 1/1.7 sensor size and just can't get wound back up in the bag full of lenses and gear required for any kind of happiness with interchangeable lens set ups. Had a perfect example of convenience today without even leaving the house. Went outside and saw something weird in the sky and after a minute realized it was a blimp that way flying toward my house. Went in and grabbed the Stylus and got a dozen or so images at up to 600mm equiv where the whole blimp would not fit in the image. If I would have only had my interchangeable lens cameras, would have missed the whole thing while I was getting the body and the right lenses out and put together. That just adds to the shots I've gotten since I've had it that it went out and about where I went instead of the dslr's staying at home in the closet like they have for the last several years.

Edit to add: I have in those years between when I quit packing everything up every time I went somewhere and now purchased numerous other super zoom small sensor cameras with the little 1/2.3 sensors and tried them and either immediately returned them or quickly stuck them in the back of the camera closet never to be seen again due to the really unsatisfactory quality images I got from them. I suppose I'd rather not have any pictures than ones I am not satisfied with. But the Stylus 1 gives me images I am happy with like I was most times with the dslr's. Not enough difference for my uses to be concerned with.

elliottnewcomb said:

snapa said:

elliottnewcomb said:

Can anyone get 24-100mm with pop up efv, touch/tilt lcd, in our pants pockets?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

This thread, is about P&S. I am saying/asking, when is it no longer a P&S? What size do we confine our comments to?

Most of what follows is off topic, just answers to snapa, hopefully informative to some.

elliottnewcomb said:

Some people do not want or need a pants pocket camera if it means getting lower quality pictures and a very short zoom range lens. Some people want a enthusiast P&S that can fit it a belt pouch with an extended zoom range and much better IQ. Apparently you are willing to trade higher IQ for a camera that will fit in you pants pocket rather than in a belt pouch, is that what you are saying?

Click to expand...

My point is: how big until it is not a point and shoot?

If you need a small case, or jacket pocket, it is a different category, FOR ME. I say Pants Pocket defines the category, bigger than that is great, but not P&S anymore.

Perhaps for some of you, if the lens is not detachable, it is point and shoot. For me, that's fixed lens, not necessarily P&S.

elliottnewcomb said:

elliottnewcomb said:

We have to presume, if Sony could have fit 24-100 instead of 24-70, they would have. Include a mic jack for external audio improved possibilities please.

Click to expand...

Not everyone is into video or cares about external audio. Some people like me would prefer a better stills camera than a small video camera.

Click to expand...

I understand, but, these cameras can do 4K. The tiny mics are ridiculous for music, especially if they are omni-directional, pick up breathing, crowd noise, zoom noises, etc. To limit the audio FOR EVERYBODY, by omitting a simple mic jack makes no sense to me. Especially if you are trying to best your competitors and get more people to buy your camera.

Click to expand...

Brilliant example, Elliot!!!

Anyone who has has heard concerts on YouTube recorded by the internal camera mics should be able to relate. Horrible sound!

And if it's trashing the audio for music it's trashing the audio for nature and whatever else too. These little mics are ridiculous for anything serious.

State-of-the-art 4K video with the poorest possible audio makes no sense.

elliottnewcomb said:

If a single multi-jack had both mic and flash contacts, then either an external mic or an external flash could be mounted on an extension bar mounted to the tripod screw, no hot shoe needed. Let those that want to buy the accessories, meanwhile, it remains pants pocketable.

Click to expand...

No hot shoe needed: WoW!! A single multi-jack had both mic and flash contacts… is a really interesting idea! Would it work? Where would the extension bar place the flash? Would off to one side be okay? Red eye could be reduced by moving it further from the lens!

Cutting edge idea!

The multi-purpose hot shoe that the RX100II has is problematic: doesn't that require a fairly large adapter? I know that's the case for the Oly PL5, for which the large adapter has to be purchased and carried, and it blocks the lcd if it's flipped up to film ourself.

Many serious photographers never use flash anyway. And if this solution helps eliminate red eye…. The result might look less artificial too. Don't wedding photographers often hold the flash off to one side, or have a bracket that does this?

Jeff Fenske said:

elliottnewcomb said:

snapa said:

elliottnewcomb said:

Can anyone get 24-100mm with pop up efv, touch/tilt lcd, in our pants pockets?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

This thread, is about P&S. I am saying/asking, when is it no longer a P&S? What size do we confine our comments to?

Most of what follows is off topic, just answers to snapa, hopefully informative to some.

Jeff Fenske said:

Some people do not want or need a pants pocket camera if it means getting lower quality pictures and a very short zoom range lens. Some people want a enthusiast P&S that can fit it a belt pouch with an extended zoom range and much better IQ. Apparently you are willing to trade higher IQ for a camera that will fit in you pants pocket rather than in a belt pouch, is that what you are saying?

Click to expand...

My point is: how big until it is not a point and shoot?

If you need a small case, or jacket pocket, it is a different category, FOR ME. I say Pants Pocket defines the category, bigger than that is great, but not P&S anymore.

Perhaps for some of you, if the lens is not detachable, it is point and shoot. For me, that's fixed lens, not necessarily P&S.

Jeff Fenske said:

Jeff Fenske said:

We have to presume, if Sony could have fit 24-100 instead of 24-70, they would have. Include a mic jack for external audio improved possibilities please.

Click to expand...

Not everyone is into video or cares about external audio. Some people like me would prefer a better stills camera than a small video camera.

Click to expand...

I understand, but, these cameras can do 4K. The tiny mics are ridiculous for music, especially if they are omni-directional, pick up breathing, crowd noise, zoom noises, etc. To limit the audio FOR EVERYBODY, by omitting a simple mic jack makes no sense to me. Especially if you are trying to best your competitors and get more people to buy your camera.

Click to expand...

Brilliant example, Elliot!!!

Anyone who has has heard concerts on YouTube recorded by the internal camera mics should be able to relate. Horrible sound!

And if it's trashing the audio for music it's trashing the audio for nature and whatever else too. These little mics are ridiculous for anything serious.

State-of-the-art 4K video with the poorest possible audio makes no sense.

Jeff Fenske said:

If a single multi-jack had both mic and flash contacts, then either an external mic or an external flash could be mounted on an extension bar mounted to the tripod screw, no hot shoe needed. Let those that want to buy the accessories, meanwhile, it remains pants pocketable.

Click to expand...

No hot shoe needed: WoW!! A single multi-jack had both mic and flash contacts… is a really interesting idea! Would it work? Where would the extension bar place the flash? Would off to one side be okay? Red eye could be reduced by moving it further from the lens!

Cutting edge idea!

The multi-purpose hot shoe that the RX100II has is problematic: doesn't that require a fairly large adapter? I know that's the case for the Oly PL5, for which the large adapter has to be purchased and carried, and it blocks the lcd if it's flipped up to film ourself.

Many serious photographers never use flash anyway. And if this solution helps eliminate red eye…. The result might look less artificial too. Don't wedding photographers often hold the flash off to one side, or have a bracket that does this?

Click to expand...

IF a mic jack, or a multi mic/flash jack was incorporated, you can add a high quality directional mic, a bluetooth receiver with remote mic, a remote flash trigger, a large battery powered bounce flash as shown.

Could a glare free viewer be added? A little practice and shooting wide might make it usable, when the lcd only camera is worthless.If you could see to manually focus, that would be a big gain, to frame with AF also.

Sony's multi purpose hot shoe handles either mics, flashes, or viewfinders. It is not physically bigger, it has more contacts specifically configured, and they offer adapters to use older equipment in the new multi shoe. This certainly could be done with a multi jack.

A large bounce flash lets you take the large group shots at family reunions, etc, where you need to back up too far for the internal flash. Many already own a good external flash.

Ahhhh, a tripod screw mounted U shaped bracket to position a multi shoe for all these optional things, including an evf. A 'system' solution for these new miniature marvels. Hire me you SOBs, give me a shop, give me Ed Form, a master technician and thinker, we would have a ball!

The origin of thinking like this is my R1, which has a cold shoe and a jack for a syncronized battery powered bounce flash.





And, while we are at it, how about a full tilt swivel touch screen, which solves glare in many situations as well as shooting over or around people/things. Monopod held high, with remote control from cell phone would be nice.





My first 'decent sensor sized' compact, S85, 2002, had an adapter tube and accessory lenses, I went nuts trying to fit those lenses to my rx100.





My lenses were cheapo ebay low quality, no success. Others tried with expensive glass, no worthwhile success. You might have seen, attempts to use wide angle lenses on Stylus 1 so far have not been successful. I look forward to the .8 wide angle that is rumored. It will come with a wider diameter tube so it can stay wide without vignette. Yippie.



--
Elliott

Bob A L said:

Snapa - Understand the can wait thing. The Stylus 1 is the closest thing yet to the fixed lens camera I have been waiting on for years. And I had not been following gear much in the last few years and almost missed seeing it. If it had an optical viewfinder instead of the evf, it would have been basically perfect. I am a strong fan of the 1/1.7 sensor size and just can't get wound back up in the bag full of lenses and gear required for any kind of happiness with interchangeable lens set ups. Had a perfect example of convenience today without even leaving the house. Went outside and saw something weird in the sky and after a minute realized it was a blimp that way flying toward my house. Went in and grabbed the Stylus and got a dozen or so images at up to 600mm equiv where the whole blimp would not fit in the image. If I would have only had my interchangeable lens cameras, would have missed the whole thing while I was getting the body and the right lenses out and put together. That just adds to the shots I've gotten since I've had it that it went out and about where I went instead of the dslr's staying at home in the closet like they have for the last several years.

Edit to add: I have in those years between when I quit packing everything up every time I went somewhere and now purchased numerous other super zoom small sensor cameras with the little 1/2.3 sensors and tried them and either immediately returned them or quickly stuck them in the back of the camera closet never to be seen again due to the really unsatisfactory quality images I got from them. I suppose I'd rather not have any pictures than ones I am not satisfied with. But the Stylus 1 gives me images I am happy with like I was most times with the dslr's. Not enough difference for my uses to be concerned with.

Click to expand...

I apologize for knowing too much about Sony's, I just want to say, I agreed with you about 1/2.3", untill people started posting results from the new Sony HX400v (zooms to 1,200 optical, has CIZ to 2,400)


It is hard to know when looking at examples, like Robin Wong, or like Stephen Ingram on the Sony Forum, the mastery of the photographer with in-camera adjustments, RAW, PP skills, but many people on the forum are excited about it.

you can find Stephen Ingraham's several recent posts about that camera here.


Does Oly make a super zoom with 1/2.3" sensor? New one due?

snapa said:

I don't have a DSLR to fall back on, but if I did, it would hardly ever get used due to the size, weight and complexity of using different lenses for different situations and hassle of carrying around. That is why I'm frustrated with the current new releases in fixed lens cameras. Hopefully, Nikon or Olympus will announce one soon that is better than the LX100, G7X, or RX100 III. If not, next year Sony seems like it will have what I may upgrade to, at least if the rumors are true. Even if I need to get into a system camera, which may not be such a bad thing. Even 'I' can wait forever for the fixed lens camera I've bee waiting for :/

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/cameras/sony-a7000

http://www.dailycameranews.com/2014/10/sony-a7000-specs-price-leaked/

http://www.cameraegg.org/rumors-sony-a7000-has-24mp-4k-video-and-18000-shutter-speed/

Both the camera and new lens sounds great, and yes, it will be expensive, but I am willing to pay for quality. Like I said, I'm ready, willing and now able (been saving my pennies to make my next upgrade a very good one. I may even get the a5100 with the new and improved 16-50mkII once the a7000 comes out and the price of the a5100 goes down, of course with the new 16-50mkII ;-)

Click to expand...

Like you I get tempted by that middle ground, modern aps-c sensor with modern lens/processing. But I think if I went up to that size (with the lens on it), I would be tempted to sell something and go for a full frame compact body. I fear I would like it, and spend lots on lenses, so that holds me back. The real achievable difference (because I don't print large) between my modern 1" and my older aps-c is shallow DOF, and FF would enlarge that difference. I have resolved, due to my laziness, not to go there.

--
Elliott

elliottnewcomb said:

Bob A L said:

Snapa - Understand the can wait thing. The Stylus 1 is the closest thing yet to the fixed lens camera I have been waiting on for years. And I had not been following gear much in the last few years and almost missed seeing it. If it had an optical viewfinder instead of the evf, it would have been basically perfect. I am a strong fan of the 1/1.7 sensor size and just can't get wound back up in the bag full of lenses and gear required for any kind of happiness with interchangeable lens set ups. Had a perfect example of convenience today without even leaving the house. Went outside and saw something weird in the sky and after a minute realized it was a blimp that way flying toward my house. Went in and grabbed the Stylus and got a dozen or so images at up to 600mm equiv where the whole blimp would not fit in the image. If I would have only had my interchangeable lens cameras, would have missed the whole thing while I was getting the body and the right lenses out and put together. That just adds to the shots I've gotten since I've had it that it went out and about where I went instead of the dslr's staying at home in the closet like they have for the last several years.

Edit to add: I have in those years between when I quit packing everything up every time I went somewhere and now purchased numerous other super zoom small sensor cameras with the little 1/2.3 sensors and tried them and either immediately returned them or quickly stuck them in the back of the camera closet never to be seen again due to the really unsatisfactory quality images I got from them. I suppose I'd rather not have any pictures than ones I am not satisfied with. But the Stylus 1 gives me images I am happy with like I was most times with the dslr's. Not enough difference for my uses to be concerned with.

Click to expand...

I apologize for knowing too much about Sony's, I just want to say, I agreed with you about 1/2.3", untill people started posting results from the new Sony HX400v (zooms to 1,200 optical, has CIZ to 2,400)

http://www.dpreview.com/products/sony/compacts/sony_dschx400v

It is hard to know when looking at examples, like Robin Wong, or like Stephen Ingram on the Sony Forum, the mastery of the photographer with in-camera adjustments, RAW, PP skills, but many people on the forum are excited about it.

you can find Stephen Ingraham's several recent posts about that camera here.

http://www.dpreview.com/members/3818286339/overview

Does Oly make a super zoom with 1/2.3" sensor? New one due?

--
Elliott

Click to expand...

They have the SP100 - I have held it and looked through viewfinder but not taken photos with it, but viewfinder is not near the Stylus 1 level and lens is 2.9-6.5 I believe, so no where near the speed of the 2.8 in S-1.

elliottnewcomb said:

Jeff Fenske said:

elliottnewcomb said:

snapa said:

elliottnewcomb said:

Can anyone get 24-100mm with pop up efv, touch/tilt lcd, in our pants pockets?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

This thread, is about P&S. I am saying/asking, when is it no longer a P&S? What size do we confine our comments to?

Most of what follows is off topic, just answers to snapa, hopefully informative to some.

elliottnewcomb said:

Some people do not want or need a pants pocket camera if it means getting lower quality pictures and a very short zoom range lens. Some people want a enthusiast P&S that can fit it a belt pouch with an extended zoom range and much better IQ. Apparently you are willing to trade higher IQ for a camera that will fit in you pants pocket rather than in a belt pouch, is that what you are saying?

Click to expand...

My point is: how big until it is not a point and shoot?

If you need a small case, or jacket pocket, it is a different category, FOR ME. I say Pants Pocket defines the category, bigger than that is great, but not P&S anymore.

Perhaps for some of you, if the lens is not detachable, it is point and shoot. For me, that's fixed lens, not necessarily P&S.

elliottnewcomb said:

elliottnewcomb said:

We have to presume, if Sony could have fit 24-100 instead of 24-70, they would have. Include a mic jack for external audio improved possibilities please.

Click to expand...

Not everyone is into video or cares about external audio. Some people like me would prefer a better stills camera than a small video camera.

Click to expand...

I understand, but, these cameras can do 4K. The tiny mics are ridiculous for music, especially if they are omni-directional, pick up breathing, crowd noise, zoom noises, etc. To limit the audio FOR EVERYBODY, by omitting a simple mic jack makes no sense to me. Especially if you are trying to best your competitors and get more people to buy your camera.

Click to expand...

Brilliant example, Elliot!!!

Anyone who has has heard concerts on YouTube recorded by the internal camera mics should be able to relate. Horrible sound!

And if it's trashing the audio for music it's trashing the audio for nature and whatever else too. These little mics are ridiculous for anything serious.

State-of-the-art 4K video with the poorest possible audio makes no sense.

elliottnewcomb said:

If a single multi-jack had both mic and flash contacts, then either an external mic or an external flash could be mounted on an extension bar mounted to the tripod screw, no hot shoe needed. Let those that want to buy the accessories, meanwhile, it remains pants pocketable.

Click to expand...

No hot shoe needed: WoW!! A single multi-jack had both mic and flash contacts… is a really interesting idea! Would it work? Where would the extension bar place the flash? Would off to one side be okay? Red eye could be reduced by moving it further from the lens!

Cutting edge idea!

The multi-purpose hot shoe that the RX100II has is problematic: doesn't that require a fairly large adapter? I know that's the case for the Oly PL5, for which the large adapter has to be purchased and carried, and it blocks the lcd if it's flipped up to film ourself.

Many serious photographers never use flash anyway. And if this solution helps eliminate red eye…. The result might look less artificial too. Don't wedding photographers often hold the flash off to one side, or have a bracket that does this?

Click to expand...

IF a mic jack, or a multi mic/flash jack was incorporated, you can add a high quality directional mic, a bluetooth receiver with remote mic, a remote flash trigger, a large battery powered bounce flash as shown.

Could a glare free viewer be added? A little practice and shooting wide might make it usable, when the lcd only camera is worthless.If you could see to manually focus, that would be a big gain, to frame with AF also.

Sony's multi purpose hot shoe handles either mics, flashes, or viewfinders. It is not physically bigger, it has more contacts specifically configured, and they offer adapters to use older equipment in the new multi shoe. This certainly could be done with a multi jack.

A large bounce flash lets you take the large group shots at family reunions, etc, where you need to back up too far for the internal flash. Many already own a good external flash.

Ahhhh, a tripod screw mounted U shaped bracket to position a multi shoe for all these optional things, including an evf. A 'system' solution for these new miniature marvels. Hire me you SOBs, give me a shop, give me Ed Form, a master technician and thinker, we would have a ball!

The origin of thinking like this is my R1, which has a cold shoe and a jack for a syncronized battery powered bounce flash.

Click to expand...

It would have to be small, though, to be practical for a compact camera.

Some might want to use a small tripod too, especially for video.

The traditional hot shoe mount seems overbuilt for compacts.

This is an LED light for smartphones, but it plugs into a mini-jack, which would take up hardly any camera space. Could a flash be designed like this too?


Maybe a jack like this could double for phantom power, if a mic required it. And a separate, standard mic jack could be used for the mic.

So two small jacks could do it all.

For those who still need a hot shoe, a more beefy converter could be offered as an accessory, that would have a hot shoe, maybe using the 1/4" tripod socket. And it could have a female, 1/4" in at its base, so a tripod could still be used.

Such big two issues to decide... or comprimise

Fucntionality results can be unacceptable (for 2015 standarts) as Stylus 1. While Casio EX-100 (correct me if the model name is wrong) can fit the smilar recipy (28-300mm F 2.8) to your jacket pocket, You HAVE TO enjoy your evf on the Stylus 1 !

While Size usually limiting your controls and reach as in Sony RX 100 III (well, the price limits more than size i guess... ).

In coming days hotshue becomes less imprortand and less usefull in this genre. Wifi and NFC is also becoming more mainstream (as in other electronics as speakers, memory cards etc.), why not they offer some "intelligent grip" kinda accessory to upcoming models ?

Actually Olympus itself started by OMD EM-5... That grip gives extra battery and handling to the ones, who does not care about pocketability (and its none of the owners concerns actually!). As Nikon offered for Nikon 1 V4, maybe they can offer an additional grip to future Enthusiast P&S and PEN line. Which would;

• Carry an hotsue on it (That you can sit a mic on it.)
• Has a mic input (would work by NFC)
• SD Card reader (that you dont need to open battery door)
• Even a rangefinder type of EVF (hmmm why not !)
• One or two additional buttons or screws to customise selected settings.
• Or another shutter button, which might also customisable.

And of course around the price between 99-149 $/€. Because when those stuff are over priced, their destiny is to collect dust on factory or shop ware houses.

Ben

As small sesors continue to get better and better, there will soon come a day that there is no need for large sensor cameras any more unless it's for the impression that shouts look at my camera. Once the sensors reach their ultimate state, there is no way for large sensor cameras to approach the convenience and handiness than can be achieved by the abilities of small sensors to be served with such a large range of focal lengths with huge max apertures in a small package compared to the huge optics that would be required by large sensors. So as technology grows, there will be no place for large sensors to go and nowhere but up for small sensors. Lots of folks don't want to admit how good they already are, and for sure don't think they can get even better yet. Never say never.

Such big two issues to decide... or compromise

Functionality results can be unacceptable (for 2015 standards) as Stylus 1. While Casio EX-100 (correct me if the model name is wrong) can fit the smilar recipe (28-300mm F 2.8) to your jacket pocket, You HAVE TO enjoy your evf on the Stylus 1 !

While Size usually limiting your controls and reach as in Sony RX 100 III (well, the price limits more than size i guess... ).

In coming days hotshue becomes less important and less useful in this genre. Wifi and NFC is also becoming more mainstream (as in other electronics as speakers, memory cards etc.), why not they offer some "intelligent grip" kinda accessory to upcoming models ?

Actually Olympus itself started by OMD EM-5... That grip gives extra battery and handling to the ones, who does not care about pocketability (and its none of the owners concerns actually!). As Nikon offered for Nikon 1 V4, maybe they can offer an additional grip to future Enthusiast P&S and PEN line. Which would;
•Carry an hotsue on it (That you can sit a mic on it.)
•Has a mic input (would work by NFC)
•SD Card reader (that you don't need to open battery door)
•Even a rangefinder type of EVF (hmmm why not !)
•One or two additional buttons or screws to customize selected settings.
•Or another shutter button, which might also customizable.

And of course around the price between 99-149 $/€. Because when those stuff are over priced, their destiny is to collect dust on factory or shop ware houses.

Ben

Ben O Connor said:

Such big two issues to decide... or compromise

Functionality results can be unacceptable (for 2015 standards) as Stylus 1. While Casio EX-100 (correct me if the model name is wrong) can fit the smilar recipe (28-300mm F 2.8) to your jacket pocket, You HAVE TO enjoy your evf on the Stylus 1 !

Ben

Click to expand...

What are you referring to that you feel is unacceptable about the Stylus 1? Just curious - new owner here, guess I haven't found it yet.

Bob A L said:

Ben O Connor said:

Such big two issues to decide... or compromise

Functionality results can be unacceptable (for 2015 standards) as Stylus 1. While Casio EX-100 (correct me if the model name is wrong) can fit the smilar recipe (28-300mm F 2.8) to your jacket pocket, You HAVE TO enjoy your evf on the Stylus 1 !

Ben

Click to expand...

What are you referring to that you feel is unacceptable about the Stylus 1? Just curious - new owner here, guess I haven't found it yet.

Click to expand...

Personally, I wish to see its size close to XZ-1/2. A little more compact than it is now... other than that, I have no issues with stylus 1. Even sometimes I wish to own it & its filter adapter as an owner of miscellaneous of 55mm filters and TCON-17X... I also disagree with a member who commented "all the cameras goes smaller in sensor"... Theoretically ; why not ! Future is always getting smaller than it is now. But in the other hand, I believe professionals will decide image quality over speed of capture, where it is critical. At least camera produces keeps "sport/low light" genre from "portrait/land scale" audience. Camera producers made DSLR's "an affordable & customizable camcorders " and now they are suffering on camcorder sales! I kinda don't believe they willingly create "small sized almighty sensors". Surely they all are personal views and ideas. Time will tell the truth. Ben PS: Sorry to repeat the exact same thread. I typed the first one in my computer then I tried to fix typing mistakes. It ended up duplicating same things. Sorry all.

At least if the current level of sales or decline thereof continues , which is why the best offering we got from Olympus this year is a half baked Stylus upgrade with a screw on wide angle converter for 250 bucks.

For the sake of all Stylus 1 users here I sincerely hope that Olympus offers some decent firmware upgrades .If rumors are correct there will be no XZ-3, Olympus's financial statements show that it is the OMD range that is carrying the load , the M4/3rds PENS are faltering as well.

I am afraid Bob's and others comments here are based on information gleaned from old DSLR experiences not what is happening today .When doing comparisons we should look at what is happening in the same price bracket because for the vast majority of users it is bang for the buck that makes the difference.

I had a Nikon D70 with various lenses ,it's long gone if I had the choice of it or The Stylus I would take the Stylus any day but it is not 2004.

Today manufacturers are making smaller bodies with compact lenses that could not be dreamed of 5 years ago

This is a 35mm (optical) f2.8 lens from Canon .It sells for under $150 and can focus track quietly in video mode.Even though I only shoot stills I am impressed by Canon's touch screen video focus on a EOS SL1



Below is the difference between the Stylus 1 and the Canon's sensor( yes there is better out there)

http://www.digicamdb.com/compare/olympus_stylus-1-vs-canon_eos-rebel-sl1/.

I you are never going to shoot RAW , don't care about IQ that much never print save your money and buy a Jpeg only super zoom , a second hand VF-2 gives you the same EVF as a stylus on a XZ-2 and it will be brighter at every f stop from 28-112.

A small sensor camera will never ever achieve this.Color noise not luminous noise will destroy the image every time.

Aaron - but you miss my main point - size of the package. It's not the lack of quality that makes me leave my dslr's at home - it's all the bulk with extra lenses required to feel like you are ready for anything and the hassle of worrying about it all. A small sensor super zoom does away with all that and many produce images that keep my family and friends totally happy. Shucks, they are totally happy with the pictures taken with their phones. So they are more like blown away by the super zoom pictures. And as long as they are happy, I am happy. You just simply can't make a 28-300 f2.8 in a very compact package for a large sensor camera.

Bob A L said:

Aaron - but you miss my main point - size of the package. It's not the lack of quality that makes me leave my dslr's at home - it's all the bulk with extra lenses required to feel like you are ready for anything and the hassle of worrying about it all. A small sensor super zoom does away with all that and many produce images that keep my family and friends totally happy. Shucks, they are totally happy with the pictures taken with their phones. So they are more like blown away by the super zoom pictures. And as long as they are happy, I am happy. You just simply can't make a 28-300 f2.8 in a very compact package for a large sensor camera.

Click to expand...

Unless you are talking about the FX100 or RX10, which are way too large to carry around without putting them is a bag around your shoulder. The Stylus 1 is also too large to put comfortably in a belt pouch. So, unless you are willing to get the G7X with a very compromised lens and soft images or the RX100 with it's short range, you are pretty much screwed. The RX100 III does have VERY good IQ and sharpness if you could deal with the short focal range and cost. If you can deal with the mediocre IQ/sharpness of the Stylus 1 in a shoulder bag, then your will be OK. If you are OK with the pinhead 1/2.3" sensor super zooms, then you will also be OK. I guess it all comes down to size, weight, and compromises for what you want and need when it comes to IQ. I do agree with you that buying a dslr with all the expensive lenses is a waste of money and inconvenience for most users needs when it comes to diminishing returns in IQ. Hopefully, Nikon or Olympus will come through in then next few months with something worth considering in a great fixed lens camera :-|

snapa said:

Bob A L said:

Aaron - but you miss my main point - size of the package. It's not the lack of quality that makes me leave my dslr's at home - it's all the bulk with extra lenses required to feel like you are ready for anything and the hassle of worrying about it all. A small sensor super zoom does away with all that and many produce images that keep my family and friends totally happy. Shucks, they are totally happy with the pictures taken with their phones. So they are more like blown away by the super zoom pictures. And as long as they are happy, I am happy. You just simply can't make a 28-300 f2.8 in a very compact package for a large sensor camera.

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Unless you are talking about the FX100 or RX10, which are way too large to carry around without putting them is a bag around your shoulder. The Stylus 1 is also too large to put comfortably in a belt pouch. So, unless you are willing to get the G7X with a very compromised lens and soft images or the RX100 with it's short range, you are pretty much screwed. The RX100 III does have VERY good IQ and sharpness if you could deal with the short focal range and cost. If you can deal with the mediocre IQ/sharpness of the Stylus 1 in a shoulder bag, then your will be OK. If you are OK with the pinhead 1/2.3" sensor super zooms, then you will also be OK. I guess it all comes down to size, weight, and compromises for what you want and need when it comes to IQ. I do agree with you that buying a dslr with all the expensive lenses is a waste of money and inconvenience for most users needs when it comes to diminishing returns in IQ. Hopefully, Nikon or Olympus will come through in then next few months with something worth considering in a great fixed lens camera :-|

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I am quite happy with the great IQ/sharpness of the Stylus 1 in it's small shoulder/belt pouch. Seems like Olympus has already come through with something worth considering in a great fixed lens camera. Serves me well until something better comes along. And still hoping for the day when the pinhead 1/2.3" sensors reach the level of the 1/1.7. Rooting for the small guys all the way.

Hi Bob,

My reply was to what you said about camera sensors. We can all have opinions but we can't alter facts.

I have actually used cameras from a Nikon D4 to a Sigma Merrill in the last 12 months.What your user expectations from a camera are is your business. Some of us would like something better from a compact especially from a manufacturer with a pedigree like Olympus.

Please stop making the mistake of comparing the the aperture of the Stylus 1 with a camera of different sensor size, a Sigma 18-250 5.6 zoom on a 24MP nikon will outperform the Stylus under any lighting condition.

I photographed this young man from France at the beach a couple of weeks ago.Even though he was back packing through Australia he had made room for a EOS 5D , a L lens and a couple of Cokin( he is French after all) filters in his kit.I won't , don't carry a FF camera with me for travel or personal photography ever, that's my choice . I do find it amusing that the same people who can't / won't change lenses are happy to got through a three step process to put a converter on a Stylus.

Have a good day and keep that Stylus clicking.

Aaron

Aaron Sur said:

Hi Bob,

My reply was to what you said about camera sensors. We can all have opinions but we can't alter facts.

I have actually used cameras from a Nikon D4 to a Sigma Merrill in the last 12 months.What your user expectations from a camera are is your business. Some of us would like something better from a compact especially from a manufacturer with a pedigree like Olympus.

Please stop making the mistake of comparing the the aperture of the Stylus 1 with a camera of different sensor size, a Sigma 18-250 5.6 zoom on a 24MP nikon will outperform the Stylus under any lighting condition.

Have a good day and keep that Stylus clicking.

Aaron

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I'm not making any mistake on the aperture. f2.8 is f2.8 no matter what lens or sensor size you want to consider. You may be referring to the conception that larger sensors can get by with higher iso ratings so you can pick up a stop or so there, but I don't like 1600 out of larger sensors either. And I don't photograph many black cats in coal bins so rarely have to go over 800 with a 2.8 lens. But I can't afford 2.8 zooms for my dslr's, so on the higher end always dealing with 5.6 or so.

Bob A L said:

I'm not making any mistake on the aperture. f2.8 is f2.8 no matter what lens or sensor size you want to consider.

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maybe you have a look at this article:


f2.8 (or f:2.8) in words means: Focal length (f) devided by 2.8 - right?

If you measure f in mm, then the result is also in mm.

No worries Bob you keep believing that. No f2.8 no Charcoal bin , no black cat, just opportunities hand held :-D.You must have a really old DSLR.