Advent1sam
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 9,089
- Solutions
- 6
- Reaction score
- 4,212
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Are Sigma financed by Canon-Nikon?
- Thread starter Advent1sam
- Start date
JamieTux
Senior Member
Canon and Nikon sell more bodies, there's a bigger market so more potential to make money, its not that odd
They can also then use the same designs for those 2 plus Sony and Pentax too.
Your suggestion involves R&D costs plus a smaller potential market (today). So I don't think that Sigma are paid by them, just driven by potential vs cost as with any business.
Paul De Bra
Forum Pro
I'm pretty sure Canon and Nikon would be very happy if all third-party lens makers went away.
Sigma has no access to the specification of the protocol that connects a camera with the lens (at least for Canon, probably the same for Nikon). As a result they reverse-engineer the part of the protocol that can be observed by measuring signals. Sometimes there are surprises when a camera maker starts using a part of the protocol for the first time. That part could not be observed before and then Sigma (or other third-party) lenses fail and need to be "rechipped" or update in some other way.
The situation with m43 is different as the specification is open and Sigma can make lenses that work completely, also on future m43 cameras.
Sigma has no access to the specification of the protocol that connects a camera with the lens (at least for Canon, probably the same for Nikon). As a result they reverse-engineer the part of the protocol that can be observed by measuring signals. Sometimes there are surprises when a camera maker starts using a part of the protocol for the first time. That part could not be observed before and then Sigma (or other third-party) lenses fail and need to be "rechipped" or update in some other way.
The situation with m43 is different as the specification is open and Sigma can make lenses that work completely, also on future m43 cameras.
But still all what we have got so far from Sigma is three primes (of which I just bought the 60mm).
Same with Tamron, only 14-150mm which has been so unexciting that reviews are nearly nonexistent and it isn't even in matching simulation (http://www.four-thirds.org/en/special/matching.html - although this might be marketing thing).
Been wondering what is keeping them back? Are they getting enough money from the CaNikon sales? Or do they think that Oly and Panny has whole thing covered and basically won't bother?
Then again, plenty of MF speciality lenses from Samyang etc. What wonders me is the electric side so hard/expensive to implement that they won't bother even with simple data coupling, which would enable aperture etc. exif data for images? Me thinks this would be a nice feature even if AF is not implemented.
Just my 0.2 cents
-- MFrost
IMHO Sigma, as former 4/3 consortium member, should have made a Foveon M4/3 camera and an adapter for Sigma to M4/3 mount with AF support. They'd have an unique sensor in the mirrorless market and sell many more mirrorless bodies than their DSLR's, and also more lenses because many M4/3 users would like to benefit from some great Sigma ones!
Those three lenses plug significant holes in APSC mirrorless, for which they were designed. Porting to M43 was a somewhat painless exercise.
Specifically design for M43? Is there such a market outside MF and cine lenses? M43 has even fewer holes in the lens line than APSC mirrorless. And a design realistically cannot be shared with other systems.
TrapperJohn
Forum Pro
- Messages
- 16,488
- Solutions
- 3
- Reaction score
- 12,288
Making lenses for µ43 isn't like copying the Nikon or Canon mount: it's involves copyrights when the body and lens communicate. So µ43 isn't really an 'open spec', as a company would need O/P's approval to use that lens to body communications scheme.
This is why C-V makes only manual lenses for µ43: they're not in the µ43 consortium, don't have access to the specs, and can't sell a reverse engineered version without violating copyrights. It would be in O/P's best interests to get those C-V lenses made in AF form, as they are such specialized lenses that they don't really threaten existing lens line sales.
Sigma was a partner in the original DSLR based 4/3 consortium, and made several lenses, from a well respected (when you got a good copy) 30 1.4, up to the 50-500 Bigma.
My understanding is that this line didn't sell well, because 4/3 didn't sell well, so the market never really materialized. It appears that Sigma is in the new µ43 consortium, but they may be cautious about making more lenses due to their 4/3 experience, even though µ43 appears to have been more successful.
Personally, I think it would be in everyone's best interests: Sigma, Panasonic,Olympus, and definitely us the customers, if Sigma were to retool the DP line for a µ43 mount. Foveon would be a great option to have, but it's not such a general purpose solution that it would pirate sales from O/P bodies: people would likely add a DP to an existing lens collection, rather than ditch an EM5 or GX7 for a DP. And, the appeal of a micro/interchangeable lens system is definitely broader than a fixed lens/fixed focal length compact.
O/P need to consider carefully when they balance their market share within µ43 against third parties broadening the appeal of µ43. The broader the appeal, the greater the overall market share. As the mirrorless market is still in a formative stage, bold moves could pay rich dividends in keeping µ43 a leader in this newly emerging market.
This is why C-V makes only manual lenses for µ43: they're not in the µ43 consortium, don't have access to the specs, and can't sell a reverse engineered version without violating copyrights. It would be in O/P's best interests to get those C-V lenses made in AF form, as they are such specialized lenses that they don't really threaten existing lens line sales.
Sigma was a partner in the original DSLR based 4/3 consortium, and made several lenses, from a well respected (when you got a good copy) 30 1.4, up to the 50-500 Bigma.
My understanding is that this line didn't sell well, because 4/3 didn't sell well, so the market never really materialized. It appears that Sigma is in the new µ43 consortium, but they may be cautious about making more lenses due to their 4/3 experience, even though µ43 appears to have been more successful.
Personally, I think it would be in everyone's best interests: Sigma, Panasonic,Olympus, and definitely us the customers, if Sigma were to retool the DP line for a µ43 mount. Foveon would be a great option to have, but it's not such a general purpose solution that it would pirate sales from O/P bodies: people would likely add a DP to an existing lens collection, rather than ditch an EM5 or GX7 for a DP. And, the appeal of a micro/interchangeable lens system is definitely broader than a fixed lens/fixed focal length compact.
O/P need to consider carefully when they balance their market share within µ43 against third parties broadening the appeal of µ43. The broader the appeal, the greater the overall market share. As the mirrorless market is still in a formative stage, bold moves could pay rich dividends in keeping µ43 a leader in this newly emerging market.
Bhima78
Senior Member
going from f2.8 to f2 in terms of physical size is not trivial. I'm no engineer, but I'd be willing to bet it would be bigger than the oly 12-40 and most certainly bigger and heavier than the panny 12-35.
Fredrik Glckner
Senior Member
No, they are financed by Canon-Nikon-fans. Big difference.
Huh? My Olympus 60mm micro 4/3 macro lens appears to be made by Sigma. Other people in this thread have mentioned there are at least two other Sigma lenses for micro 4/3 mounts.
It seems Sigma sells their lenses rebranded when made for the micro 4/3 mount. I'm not sure why they chose to go that way.
dennis tennis
Senior Member
Yes, Canon and Nikon hired NSA and ISIS to eliminate all Sigman executives who wanted to make lenses for mFT. Sigma is family owned and the family has been devastated with accidental deaths.
Howeve, you are a traitor for only Olympus knows how to make lesnes. The rest are cr@p, and their best primes pales in comparisons to Olympus kit zoom lenses.
intruder61
Senior Member
- Messages
- 3,064
- Reaction score
- 488
Are Sigma financed by Canon-Nikon?......No, the Mormons have a controlling interest.
Joseph T Lewis III
Senior Member
They also made / make lenses for Konica - Minolta cameras, and Sony Alpha DSLRs / DSLTs. And, they make lenses for Pentax and Sigma cameras.
As an aside: from what I've read, Sigma reverse engineers their lenses to work on existing camera bodies, as compared to being provided propietary specs from the manufacturers and designing the lenses based on the specs. Thus, it isn't at all uncommon for Sigma lenses that work on one model of a camera to not function properly on a newer model. However, through combinations of re-chipping and / or firmware updates, in many cases they can be upgraded to work with the new camera body.
EarthQuake
Senior Member
- Messages
- 3,240
- Solutions
- 9
- Reaction score
- 2,726
Last edited:
Advent1sam
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 9,089
- Solutions
- 6
- Reaction score
- 4,212
Are you a Moron, I mean Mormon! When do you leave for the moon?
That's pretty much my understanding of this also. I remember some 3rd party lenses including some Sigmas, having to be re-chipped for at least Canon (maybe Nikon too, but can't remember).
--
My Gallery is here -
http://www.pbase.com/madlights
The Joker: Why so serious?
Last edited:
It makes economic sense for Sigma to concentrate on making lenses for cameras that sell well, rather than making lenses for cameras that sell comparatively poorly.
Canon estimates that they will sell 7.0 million DSLRs this year.
Nikon will also sell millions of cameras this year, I suppose 5-6 million.
(In addition to current sales, Canon-Nikon have a massive installed base of previously sold DSLRs.)
Sony is the best selling mirrorless camera.
Compared to that, M43 is a poor selling platform, that Sigma doesn't think is worth bothering with.
Canon estimates that they will sell 7.0 million DSLRs this year.
Nikon will also sell millions of cameras this year, I suppose 5-6 million.
(In addition to current sales, Canon-Nikon have a massive installed base of previously sold DSLRs.)
Sony is the best selling mirrorless camera.
Compared to that, M43 is a poor selling platform, that Sigma doesn't think is worth bothering with.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum