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Oly EP5 with 12-40 F2.8 vs Sony a6000 with 24-70Z

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superstar905 said:
That lens is well known to have issues. Not a good comparison. I'd like to see DXO compare with the 16-70. The 12-40 will still be better though, perhaps not by such a wide margin.
LTZ470 said:
Yep, ...the APS-C is not "always" better...DxO disproves this thinking also...

83e4e90020b14759b11c17bbc8d8d313.jpg

--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
Click to expand...
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I owned the 16-70 for a short time as well, tested it against the 12-40 and 24-70 both, it didn't hold up as it was on the Nex-7, so the corners were not great at all, the EM1 and 12-40 easily surpassed it, not in the center but in the corners...a nice lens though loved the size and form factor, the 12-40 and 24-70 are too large for me to be honest, love the 12-40 as it's close focusing and sharpness is awesome, just a great lens...the 24-70 I like as well, but out of two I have owned they are both soft on the left hand side of the frame...and too large on the A7r as well....

--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
 
audiobomber said:
LTZ470 said:
The ONLY camera that makes a BETTER landscape camera than EM1 is the A7r...which I use solely for Landscapes as it is not very good for anything else except night shots, but then the shutter shock has ruined many of my night shots as well...
Click to expand...
I can understand your statement if you're saying the EM-1 is better for landscape than an a6000, it all you're looking at is weather sealing. If you're talking about IQ, then BS.
Click to expand...
Haven't tested the A6000, thought about it, but the step down in EVF changed my mind...
audiobomber said:
audiobomber said:
The Nikon V3 is much better at shooting BIF and Sports in good light than the Sony's that I have seen...it can even shoot dragonflies in flight fairly easily...
Click to expand...
In good light, with almost infinite DOF. I am not impressed.
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Nope, you wouldn't really know either I'm sure as you don't own the camera...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Nikon-1-70-300-Colorado-2014/
audiobomber said:
audiobomber said:
Shooting at night or indoors the EM1 absolutely AF's 10:1 better than the A7r, don't know about A6000 indoors for sports or at night football...I am sure it is lacking as the EVF is poor as well, where Oly's EVF is excellent...
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You don't seem to be in the same thread as the rest of us. The OP is trying to choose between an EP-5 with 12-40 and a6000 with 16-70.

I wouldn't use any MILC for night football, I'd use my K-3.
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The EM1 and 35-100 f/2.8 with 10 fps, did great for indoor kids basketball...my sister law shot the night football under poor lighting and was very happy with the shots...

That's the great thing about the m43 lens being sharp wide open is shutter speed and low ISO...
audiobomber said:
--
Dan
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DSC_3503-X3.jpg




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As far as endless DOF, you are clueless and need to learn how to use a camera...

DSC_7741-X3.jpg




--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
 
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superstar905 said:
Nice photo!!! Was that with the Sigma 60 f2.8? Either way, I love the EP5 too!
Click to expand...
Thanks the Oly 60mm f/2.8 that fits in your pocket...it is awesome as well...I had a hard time parting with the EP5 and still long for it, it is a great camera, just a joy to use...

Here's the Nex-7 with 16-70 on the EM1 with 12-40 and the A7r with 24-70...sorry not very organized but the first three shots are really telling, then the many more in this album to compare, it really depends on the size you want to print...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Other/A7r-EM1-Nex-7/
JPTHEOG said:
LTZ470 said:
Lol...apertures don't confuse me at all...

Maybe your confused talking to someone that "knows" and owns these cameras and shoots them daily...

And quit making excuses for a 20mp camera...lol...that's ridiculous...

The ONLY camera that makes a BETTER landscape camera than EM1 is the A7r...which I use solely for Landscapes as it is not very good for anything else except night shots, but then the shutter shock has ruined many of my night shots as well...

The Nikon V3 is much better at shooting BIF and Sports in good light than the Sony's that I have seen...it can even shoot dragonflies in flight fairly easily...

Shooting at night or indoors the EM1 absolutely AF's 10:1 better than the A7r, don't know about A6000 indoors for sports or at night football...I am sure it is lacking as the EVF is poor as well, where Oly's EVF is excellent...

I have no reason to bash either we own the RX1, RX100, 5N, A7R, and more Sony's...lol..

But that where folks like you can't pi$$ on my leg and tell me it's rain either, I own the Oly EM1 as well with a suite of lens...and did own the EP5...and it ain't no slouch...

P9160872-1-2.jpg


P9160872-1-4-X3.jpg


--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
 
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I would bet good money it's the Zuiko 60mm f2.8. There are only two real macro lenses on m43. The IQ is certainly familiar, but AF is so-so. A bit irrelevant for macro shots, but LTZ470 won't be shooting dragonflies in flight with it. :)

superstar905 said:
Nice photo!!! Was that with the Sigma 60 f2.8? Either way, I love the EP5 too!
LTZ470 said:
Lol...apertures don't confuse me at all...

Maybe your confused talking to someone that "knows" and owns these cameras and shoots them daily...

And quit making excuses for a 20mp camera...lol...that's ridiculous...

The ONLY camera that makes a BETTER landscape camera than EM1 is the A7r...which I use solely for Landscapes as it is not very good for anything else except night shots, but then the shutter shock has ruined many of my night shots as well...

The Nikon V3 is much better at shooting BIF and Sports in good light than the Sony's that I have seen...it can even shoot dragonflies in flight fairly easily...

Shooting at night or indoors the EM1 absolutely AF's 10:1 better than the A7r, don't know about A6000 indoors for sports or at night football...I am sure it is lacking as the EVF is poor as well, where Oly's EVF is excellent...

I have no reason to bash either we own the RX1, RX100, 5N, A7R, and more Sony's...lol..

But that where folks like you can't pi$$ on my leg and tell me it's rain either, I own the Oly EM1 as well with a suite of lens...and did own the EP5...and it ain't no slouch...

P9160872-1-2.jpg


P9160872-1-4-X3.jpg


--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
LTZ470 said:
superstar905 said:
Nice photo!!! Was that with the Sigma 60 f2.8? Either way, I love the EP5 too!
Click to expand...
Thanks the Oly 60mm f/2.8 that fits in your pocket...it is awesome as well...I had a hard time parting with the EP5 and still long for it, it is a great camera, just a joy to use...

Here's the Nex-7 with 16-70 on the EM1 with 12-40 and the A7r with 24-70...sorry not very organized but the first three shots are really telling, then the many more in this album to compare, it really depends on the size you want to print...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Other/A7r-EM1-Nex-7/
Click to expand...
Are those OOC jpegs? The Oly seems to be processed fairly hard compared to the Sonys. The 24-70 Zeiss has so much detail in the center but the borders are really depressing. I wonder why they didn't just make it a 35-70...
 
johnsmith404 said:
LTZ470 said:
superstar905 said:
Nice photo!!! Was that with the Sigma 60 f2.8? Either way, I love the EP5 too!
Click to expand...
Thanks the Oly 60mm f/2.8 that fits in your pocket...it is awesome as well...I had a hard time parting with the EP5 and still long for it, it is a great camera, just a joy to use...

Here's the Nex-7 with 16-70 on the EM1 with 12-40 and the A7r with 24-70...sorry not very organized but the first three shots are really telling, then the many more in this album to compare, it really depends on the size you want to print...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Other/A7r-EM1-Nex-7/
Click to expand...
Are those OOC jpegs? The Oly seems to be processed fairly hard compared to the Sonys. The 24-70 Zeiss has so much detail in the center but the borders are really depressing. I wonder why they didn't just make it a 35-70...
Click to expand...
Yes, all out of camera jpegs...I use the 24mm ZA A-Mount with the LA-EA4 adapter, I am really hoping that the FE 12-35 f/4 is stellar to be honest I have missed a couple of shots with the 24mm not being wide enough...
 
bluevellet said:
I would bet good money it's the Zuiko 60mm f2.8. There are only two real macro lenses on m43. The IQ is certainly familiar, but AF is so-so. A bit irrelevant for macro shots, but LTZ470 won't be shooting dragonflies in flight with it. :)
Click to expand...
It's perfectly capable...if the photog is up to it...

This gent is a great photog...he shoots the EM1 a lot, but also shoots FF...his work with the EM1 is a testament to what is possible with m43...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43301211@N03



9579649185_02c6fc2ec7_o.jpg




8204691627_667f1bbd61_o.jpg




--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
 
Not in my hands. Dragonfly sitting still on a branch is easier. :p

LTZ470 said:
bluevellet said:
I would bet good money it's the Zuiko 60mm f2.8. There are only two real macro lenses on m43. The IQ is certainly familiar, but AF is so-so. A bit irrelevant for macro shots, but LTZ470 won't be shooting dragonflies in flight with it. :)
Click to expand...
It's perfectly capable...if the photog is up to it...

This gent is a great photog...he shoots the EM1 a lot, but also shoots FF...his work with the EM1 is a testament to what is possible with m43...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43301211@N03

9579649185_02c6fc2ec7_o.jpg


8204691627_667f1bbd61_o.jpg


--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
Click to expand...
 
LTZ470 said:
johnsmith404 said:
LTZ470 said:
superstar905 said:
Nice photo!!! Was that with the Sigma 60 f2.8? Either way, I love the EP5 too!
Click to expand...
Thanks the Oly 60mm f/2.8 that fits in your pocket...it is awesome as well...I had a hard time parting with the EP5 and still long for it, it is a great camera, just a joy to use...

Here's the Nex-7 with 16-70 on the EM1 with 12-40 and the A7r with 24-70...sorry not very organized but the first three shots are really telling, then the many more in this album to compare, it really depends on the size you want to print...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Other/A7r-EM1-Nex-7/
Click to expand...
Are those OOC jpegs? The Oly seems to be processed fairly hard compared to the Sonys. The 24-70 Zeiss has so much detail in the center but the borders are really depressing. I wonder why they didn't just make it a 35-70...
Click to expand...
Yes, all out of camera jpegs...I use the 24mm ZA A-Mount with the LA-EA4 adapter, I am really hoping that the FE 12-35 f/4 is stellar to be honest I have missed a couple of shots with the 24mm not being wide enough...
Click to expand...
 
superstar905 said:
captura said:
LTZ470 said:
johnsmith404 said:
LTZ470 said:
superstar905 said:
Nice photo!!! Was that with the Sigma 60 f2.8? Either way, I love the EP5 too!
Click to expand...
Thanks the Oly 60mm f/2.8 that fits in your pocket...it is awesome as well...I had a hard time parting with the EP5 and still long for it, it is a great camera, just a joy to use...

Here's the Nex-7 with 16-70 on the EM1 with 12-40 and the A7r with 24-70...sorry not very organized but the first three shots are really telling, then the many more in this album to compare, it really depends on the size you want to print...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Other/A7r-EM1-Nex-7/
Click to expand...
Are those OOC jpegs? The Oly seems to be processed fairly hard compared to the Sonys. The 24-70 Zeiss has so much detail in the center but the borders are really depressing. I wonder why they didn't just make it a 35-70...
Click to expand...
Yes, all out of camera jpegs...I use the 24mm ZA A-Mount with the LA-EA4 adapter, I am really hoping that the FE 12-35 f/4 is stellar to be honest I have missed a couple of shots with the 24mm not being wide enough...

--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
Click to expand...
It needs to be said that the Sigma 19, 30 and 60 lenses are also available with M43 mounts, so will work on the E-P5.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know this. I'm not really a macro shooter as my needs suggest, but those lenses are great. I can see myself owning a portrait lens like the Sony 50 1.8, but really the 16-70 lens looks like a great all around lens. Honestly, I could care less about the corners, and if I do print large its likely going to be a nightscape or portrait, and I doubt i'd ever really notice. I just really don't want to change lenses regularly. Mind you, for most occasions my set up is fine. For example, tonight at Thanksgiving dinner, the 12mm f2 lens was all I needed, but when we where outside in the backyard, having a zoom on would have been ideal, yet I wasn't inclined to slap on the 12-32. m43 system has tons of great lenses, and that is something I've always valued, but with my priorities changing, so has my perspective. for some reason, although side by side the EM1 w/12-40 seems to be a bit smaller than the a6000 w/ 16-70, there is just something about the EM1 that doesn't appeal to me, but I am clearly in the minority.
Click to expand...
Yes, we of the Sony Brotherhood understand and sympathize with M43 escapees who bemoan, "there is just something about the EM1 that doesn't appeal to me, ..." (just kidding.) The problem which I have with the E-M! and E-M5 is the handling. The grip and controls on the NEX-bodies just fall more readily to hand.
 
?
 
"It depends. One body with an UWA zoom that goes up to 35mm equiv. + another body with a 50mm equiv. prime is a very practical setup for trips too."

On APS-C that could be an E30 macro + UWA and An E 35.
 
LTZ470 said:
superstar905 said:
LTZ470 said:
Mark K said:
superstar905 said:
captura said:
LTZ470 said:
johnsmith404 said:
LTZ470 said:
superstar905 said:
Nice photo!!! Was that with the Sigma 60 f2.8? Either way, I love the EP5 too!
Click to expand...
Thanks the Oly 60mm f/2.8 that fits in your pocket...it is awesome as well...I had a hard time parting with the EP5 and still long for it, it is a great camera, just a joy to use...

Here's the Nex-7 with 16-70 on the EM1 with 12-40 and the A7r with 24-70...sorry not very organized but the first three shots are really telling, then the many more in this album to compare, it really depends on the size you want to print...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Other/A7r-EM1-Nex-7/
Click to expand...
Are those OOC jpegs? The Oly seems to be processed fairly hard compared to the Sonys. The 24-70 Zeiss has so much detail in the center but the borders are really depressing. I wonder why they didn't just make it a 35-70...
Click to expand...
Yes, all out of camera jpegs...I use the 24mm ZA A-Mount with the LA-EA4 adapter, I am really hoping that the FE 12-35 f/4 is stellar to be honest I have missed a couple of shots with the 24mm not being wide enough...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
LTZ470 said:
captura said:
LTZ470 said:
I am sure the 16-70 on the A6000 is MUCH better than the Nex-7...that's going to be a nice combo...

Some very nice shots with the combo here:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1288669/0

--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
Click to expand...
What do you mean, and what makes you so sure?
Click to expand...
Well I can't be sure, but it has got to be BETTER than the Nex-7 with wide lens, the Nex-7 had poor corners and magenta color shift due to high mp sensor, but I think they have changed the A6000 to correct these issues?
Click to expand...
Why say you are sure, when you're not sure?
LTZ470 said:
Google: "Nex-7 issues wide lens corners" and see how many issues there were with the Nex-7 Sensor and WA lens...if the A6000 has not corrected this Sony needs a kick in the ar$e...

Surely they adjusted or improved the micro-lens on the A6000!
Click to expand...
Apparently there were no micro-lenses in the NEX-7 design, this having to do with Sony lifting their 24 mp sensor from the A77, with no changes. Well the A77 is a long-register body, so this sensor was not optimized for the short-register NEX body.

The A6000 got a new custom-designed sensor.

I've not seen any comparison tests of the 16-70 at 16mm performed on the NEX-7 vs the A6000. It would be interesting.
LTZ470 said:
http://verybiglobo.blogspot.com/2014/04/sony-alpha-a6000-iso-comparisons-corner.html

--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
Click to expand...
 
audiobomber said:
In good light, with almost infinite DOF. I am not impressed.

--
Dan
Click to expand...
I am very impressed with Nikon V3 ISO capability....impressed indeed...much better than I ever imagined, too many folks get hung up on one brand...and miss out on some great cameras and lens...

And for Fast AF the A6000 would be hard put to keep up with the V3 and CX 70-300...just sayin'...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Jake-Soccer-April-2014/

DSC_4662.jpg


DSC_4693.jpg




DSC_0815.jpg


DSC_0333.jpg


DSC_0542.jpg


DSC_1898.jpg


DSC_0249.jpg


--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
 
Last edited:
LTZ470 said:
audiobomber said:
In good light, with almost infinite DOF. I am not impressed.

--
Dan
Click to expand...
I am very impressed with Nikon V3 ISO capability....impressed indeed...much better than I ever imagined, too many folks get hung up on one brand...and miss out on some great cameras and lens...

And for Fast AF the A6000 would be hard put to keep up with the V3 and CX 70-300...just sayin'...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Jake-Soccer-April-2014/

DSC_4662.jpg


DSC_4693.jpg


DSC_0815.jpg


DSC_0333.jpg


DSC_0542.jpg


DSC_1898.jpg


DSC_0249.jpg


--
--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I do not support the call to leave the FZ1000 without options to install a Teleconverter
Click to expand...
I've been saying the same for a long time. Usually the house trolls jump all over the place when one even mentions the N.1
 
LTZ470 said:
audiobomber said:
In good light, with almost infinite DOF. I am not impressed.

--
Dan
Click to expand...
I am very impressed with Nikon V3 ISO capability....impressed indeed...much better than I ever imagined, too many folks get hung up on one brand...and miss out on some great cameras and lens...
Click to expand...
I would like to clarify that I am impressed with your dragonfly in flight photos. Those are really tough to nail. What I am not impressed with, is the N1 system. I can barely manage what I want to do with a 300mm f4 on an APS-C DSLR. A 1" sensor won't cut it, especially since the tele lenses are so slow. I could get along with a Nikon 1 as a secondary camera, but I am far more interested in APS-C, which is why I bought the a6000.
LTZ470 said:
And for Fast AF the A6000 would be hard put to keep up with the V3 and CX 70-300...just sayin'...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Jake-Soccer-April-2014/
Click to expand...
That's quite possible, N1 does have a reputation for fast AF, although having twice the DOF of APS-C means focus is more forgiving. I haven't been as impressed with the a6000 AF as others. If I'm shooting action or low light, I will use a DSLR.

The only true AF tests I've seen are done by FNAC Labs ( a French magazine). I haven't seen their tests for the N1 bodies or for the a6000 compared to a current DSLR. The testing I've seen on the net, (DPR, Camera Store, etc), I treat as opinion. They are nowhere near rigorous enough to convince me that their results are definitive.

--
Dan
 
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LTZ470 said:
audiobomber said:
LTZ470 said:
audiobomber said:
In good light, with almost infinite DOF. I am not impressed.

--
Dan
Click to expand...
I am very impressed with Nikon V3 ISO capability....impressed indeed...much better than I ever imagined, too many folks get hung up on one brand...and miss out on some great cameras and lens...
Click to expand...
I would like to clarify that I am impressed with your dragonfly in flight photos. Those are really tough to nail. What I am not impressed with, is the N1 system. I can barely manage what I want to do with a 300mm f4 on an APS-C DSLR. A 1" sensor won't cut it, especially since the tele lenses are so slow. I could get along with a Nikon 1 as a secondary camera, but I am far more interested in APS-C, which is why I bought the a6000.
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If you can barely manage with 300mm f/4, I would definitely look at the Sigma 120-300 f/2.8, it seems to do a wonderful job in the right hands...it can be had used fairly reasonable...
Click to expand...
Not available in K-mount. The 300mm f2.8 is though, and the price is reasonable.
LTZ470 said:
LTZ470 said:
LTZ470 said:
And for Fast AF the A6000 would be hard put to keep up with the V3 and CX 70-300...just sayin'...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Jake-Soccer-April-2014/
Click to expand...
That's quite possible, N1 does have a reputation for fast AF, although having twice the DOF of APS-C means focus is more forgiving. I haven't been as impressed with the a6000 AF as others. If I'm shooting action or low light, I will use a DSLR.

The only true AF tests I've seen are done by FNAC Labs ( a French magazine). I haven't seen their tests for the N1 bodies or for the a6000 compared to a current DSLR. The testing I've seen on the net, (DPR, Camera Store, etc), I treat as opinion. They are nowhere near rigorous enough to convince me that their results are definitive.
Click to expand...
Heres the true test for me, a pro using the V3 and 70-300 CX and leaving his Canon equipment at home...
Click to expand...
He did, but what about all the others? It's clear that he is a very talented photographer, and it's true that size is radically different, but there are compromises. Sports photographers value subject isolation, and that is not possible with N1. Also note the photo of the serve, where the racket is virtually invisible due to motion blur. A fast lens could freeze that motion, or just provide enough blur to convey motion without losing the racket.

I don't consider outside sports like golf, tennis or soccer to be very demanding. Hockey, night football, those are tough sports to shoot, as is birding where I live. There's not much light in the winter up here. I'm often shooting at ISO 2200-3200 @ f4, and compromising on shutter speed to get the shot. I have a 1.4X TC, but I can't use it at times. I wouldn't even give up 2/3 of a stop for m4/3, let alone two stops for N1.

--
Dan
 
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