The Photo Ninja
Senior Member
This lens is not a constant aperture lens - we're not talking about light transmission and t stops here.
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Leica lied about the lens on the X typ 113 - it's not a true f/1.7 lens.
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tinternaut
Veteran Member
They've been very clear on the close focusing limitation, from the start. It's a bit of a disappointment, but hardly a deal-breaker*. This is a general purpose camera, for street and scape, so focusing close, for subject isolation, isn't the normal use case.
* The actual deal-breaker, for many, is going to be the AF speed
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J
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* The actual deal-breaker, for many, is going to be the AF speed
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Regards
J
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jasonhindleuk
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Gear in profile. Oh, and caveat moron.
Godfrey
Forum Pro
Funny you should say that. In my shooting with the new X yesterday and today (about 600 exposures so far, mostly testing things and getting familiar with its behavior), I've been pleasantly delighted with now fast and accurate the AF is now and how easily it can lock in on previously difficult subjects (both confusing subject matter and very low light), compared to the X2.It's not quite as fast as the E-M1, but it's certainly nothing that gets in my way.* The actual deal-breaker, for many, is going to be the AF speed
Different perspectives, I guess. It's not a Canon 1D III, but it's a very capable auto-focus camera.
G
tinternaut
Veteran Member
I was mostly using an Olympus E-PL1, for a coupe of years, and the AF on that was truly atrocious. The E-PM2 (and later, the E-P5) has been a revelation by comparison. Leica's challenge is to ensure the wannabe "cool street shooters" don't lose too many decisive moments, with their new toy.
Godfrey
Forum Pro
Hmm. When I'm street shooting, I have the lens stopped down to f/5.6-f/8 and the focus set at 6-8 feet; I fit an optical viewfinder as well. That's a "people shooting zone" from about 5 feet to about 18 feet. No focusing necessary, just point and click. Very easy to set up and use with the X (or X2 for that matter).
(Actually, I do the same thing with the E-PL1 and a Lumix-G 14mm lens.)
G
It does not appear that Leica advertises the X as a fixed aperture or constant f-stop lens at any focal length.
IMHO, a fair representation of the facts are those of Sean Reid:
"Leica does this, of course, because they’re perfectionistic about lens performance and don’t want to allow the lens to operate at distance/aperture combinations that they believe won’t yield good performance. So this is an f/1.7 lens up until roughly four feet from the subject and then its speed drops as one gets closer.
It took me a few minutes to get used to this and then it ceased to be an issue."
Einst Stein
Leading Member
TTL metering is old and is only for exposure compensation. But here we are talking about IQ compensation. Leica is making an excellent innovative move.
rhlpetrus
Forum Pro
Really? Big nono imo.
J
Joe Pineapples
Guest
I really wish you wouldn't invoke the name of one of mankind's greatest thinkers for your tomfoolery.
J.
samhain
Senior Member
Just read the Huff review on the X type 113. Yuck!
I would be bouncing off the walls in anger if i bought a f1.7 camera that refused to let me shoot at f1.7! Are you kidding me? Talk about infuriating! Atleast with the x2 you could shoot at f2 when f2 was selected. Steve said out of 100 or so shots at f1.7, only 4 or 5 were actually at f1.7, the rest were 2.5 & 2.8. Oh i would be so angry. I got angry just reading about it lol.
I would send that camera back to leica so fast it wouldn't even be funny!
Who the h*ll is designing these silly cameras over there anyways? The M's are a work of art. All these other cameras... I mean is leica subcontracting out to Casio? These cameras arent 'Leica' at all. There's no leica soul in these. It's bad enough Leica has abondoned built in vf's, and now they're taking away the photographers ability to set the lens aperture? That's not very Leica at all. I mean... Am i wrong? Since when is leica about skimping on features & dumbing down cameras?
Sorry for the rant, but... This isn't the Leica way. And as long as people keep buying these cameras, it sends a message to Leica that these kind of 'changes' are ok.
I just don't see the appeal to any of these new leica cameras other than the M's. I mean- if you want a camera with a fast fixed prime and no vf- why not get the RX1? A Full frame d800 sensor with a zeiss 35/f2 in a pocket sized camera for less than the price of this.
I would be bouncing off the walls in anger if i bought a f1.7 camera that refused to let me shoot at f1.7! Are you kidding me? Talk about infuriating! Atleast with the x2 you could shoot at f2 when f2 was selected. Steve said out of 100 or so shots at f1.7, only 4 or 5 were actually at f1.7, the rest were 2.5 & 2.8. Oh i would be so angry. I got angry just reading about it lol.
I would send that camera back to leica so fast it wouldn't even be funny!
Who the h*ll is designing these silly cameras over there anyways? The M's are a work of art. All these other cameras... I mean is leica subcontracting out to Casio? These cameras arent 'Leica' at all. There's no leica soul in these. It's bad enough Leica has abondoned built in vf's, and now they're taking away the photographers ability to set the lens aperture? That's not very Leica at all. I mean... Am i wrong? Since when is leica about skimping on features & dumbing down cameras?
Sorry for the rant, but... This isn't the Leica way. And as long as people keep buying these cameras, it sends a message to Leica that these kind of 'changes' are ok.
I just don't see the appeal to any of these new leica cameras other than the M's. I mean- if you want a camera with a fast fixed prime and no vf- why not get the RX1? A Full frame d800 sensor with a zeiss 35/f2 in a pocket sized camera for less than the price of this.
samhain
Senior Member
Note:
I just read the other thread reguarding this topic (late to the party i know lol).
This...er... 'Feature' should be listed right up front on the spec sheet/one sheet. Actually- there should be an asterix next to the f1.7. F1.7* (*= f1.7 beyond 4ft. Camera will choose what aperture depending on focus distance, reguardless of user setting). That should be made clear, not buried in a manual. That's a big deal.
And as a professional photographer for many years- there are many, many situations where wide open is useful/needed at 4ft or less. Many situations. Many many. But that's not really what the issue is about. I see why they did it. (Personally, i think it would be better, and useful to many, as a selectible option). the issue is- it should've been noted in the main description. Imho.
Also- apologies for my previous post. I drank a bottle of wine, it's 5:30am and... Lol yeah. I posted that right after reading the Huff review, before i read the other threads about the subject. It's a bit dramatic, sorry. I tried to edit /delete but past 5 min so no dice. I get excited about cameras. I just wish Leica would stop screwing around and bring out a little camera with a fast fixed lens, big sensor & big bright viewfinder. Is that too much to ask? And with every new camera they bring out.. it's everything but that.
Fast fixed lens. Big sensor. Big bright vf. Compact body. Sort it out Leica. Make it happen.
I just read the other thread reguarding this topic (late to the party i know lol).
This...er... 'Feature' should be listed right up front on the spec sheet/one sheet. Actually- there should be an asterix next to the f1.7. F1.7* (*= f1.7 beyond 4ft. Camera will choose what aperture depending on focus distance, reguardless of user setting). That should be made clear, not buried in a manual. That's a big deal.
And as a professional photographer for many years- there are many, many situations where wide open is useful/needed at 4ft or less. Many situations. Many many. But that's not really what the issue is about. I see why they did it. (Personally, i think it would be better, and useful to many, as a selectible option). the issue is- it should've been noted in the main description. Imho.
Also- apologies for my previous post. I drank a bottle of wine, it's 5:30am and... Lol yeah. I posted that right after reading the Huff review, before i read the other threads about the subject. It's a bit dramatic, sorry. I tried to edit /delete but past 5 min so no dice. I get excited about cameras. I just wish Leica would stop screwing around and bring out a little camera with a fast fixed lens, big sensor & big bright viewfinder. Is that too much to ask? And with every new camera they bring out.. it's everything but that.
Fast fixed lens. Big sensor. Big bright vf. Compact body. Sort it out Leica. Make it happen.
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John Gellings
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So, you are superior to these "wannabe cool street shooters" because you use an Olympus? Get over yourself.
I thought its just a software restriction at close range to maintain sharpness ?
happycyclist
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This whole issue seems like it is a waste of time to argue about and it really doesn't seem like Leica is being shady; they seem very forthcoming with the lens "issue."
Either the camera does what you want or it doesn't and the image quality is great or it isn't. It seems like everytime a new camera comes out all these negatives fly all over the net complaining about something that in reality turns out to not be a huge deal. Kinda like the hubub about the X Vario and the slow lens. Turns out that camera is a really fine machine for actually making great images provided the user does his/her part.
I can't see a huge issue with the lens stopping down like it does when one is shooting the way this camera is meant to be shot. It's a fixed lens camera and was never meant to do everything well. Even with a lens that stops down at close range, it still seems like a really great "decisive moment" camera. An alternative "fix" would be to make the minimum focus distance a meter....that would blow much more than having the lens stop down.
I don't get the lack of viewfinder issue either that always seems to be thrown at these cameras. I would much rather have the choice of either having the viewfinder or not depending on how I am shooting it. Sure, cost of the extra viewfinder is an issue...but it's Leica. It's not like cost has never been an issue with Leica.
Either the camera does what you want or it doesn't and the image quality is great or it isn't. It seems like everytime a new camera comes out all these negatives fly all over the net complaining about something that in reality turns out to not be a huge deal. Kinda like the hubub about the X Vario and the slow lens. Turns out that camera is a really fine machine for actually making great images provided the user does his/her part.
I can't see a huge issue with the lens stopping down like it does when one is shooting the way this camera is meant to be shot. It's a fixed lens camera and was never meant to do everything well. Even with a lens that stops down at close range, it still seems like a really great "decisive moment" camera. An alternative "fix" would be to make the minimum focus distance a meter....that would blow much more than having the lens stop down.
I don't get the lack of viewfinder issue either that always seems to be thrown at these cameras. I would much rather have the choice of either having the viewfinder or not depending on how I am shooting it. Sure, cost of the extra viewfinder is an issue...but it's Leica. It's not like cost has never been an issue with Leica.
Godfrey
Forum Pro
The specification sheet lists the specifications properly. The instruction manual describes how those specifications are utilized in the behavior of the camera and where the limitations of use are. That's exactly as it should be. I've never seen a specification sheet from anyone that said, '... this feature has a limitation when you set the camera to mode Blah-blah and option Fooey, it is altered to V not X,' yet it is true of nearly every camera.
G
Godfrey
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tinternaut
Veteran Member
John Gellings
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Ah, so that is your hang-up... I get it.
tinternaut
Veteran Member
I think perhaps you've been making an ass of you and umption (twice).
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