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Sony A900 vs SLT Line

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Hotahseh

Hotahseh

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Hey guys,

I have truly enjoyed using my a900 DSLR for some time now, but it seems like I am limited. I have personally tested 3 different SLT cameras such as a65, a77, and a58 and have really enjoyed them as well.

Well the question that I am getting to is, should I switch to SLT camera? Im gaining video and I honestly don't believe I will have a loss in quality in my stills because the tech is definitely there with good stills in lower iso even though its APS-C sensor...

I do understand that im losing full frame, but never noticed in my photography a difference really.

What to do? maybe this should of been a thread over a question...but oh well sorry
 
TomHJ said:
... recognizing that for sports, action, and fast-moving people nothing will replace the increasingly sophisticated AF bodies and lenses--recent sensor-based technologies (such as focus peaking and magnification--have revitalized MF lenses for a lot of purposes. The a850, unfortunately, can use neither, as it doesn't have sensor-based focusing (essential for both focus peaking and magnification).
Click to expand...
Sensor-based focusing is not in any way essential for focus peaking or magnification. The only hardware requirement for those features is live view. Several SLT models (A57, A58, A65, A77, etc.) have both of those features without any sensor-based autofocusing.

To be specific, peaking is accomplished by analyzing contrast between live view pixels, and magnification is accomplished by upsampling (enlarging) live view pixels. AF is not involved at all.
 
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Never Mind!
 
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sybersitizen said:
TomHJ said:
... recognizing that for sports, action, and fast-moving people nothing will replace the increasingly sophisticated AF bodies and lenses--recent sensor-based technologies (such as focus peaking and magnification--have revitalized MF lenses for a lot of purposes. The a850, unfortunately, can use neither, as it doesn't have sensor-based focusing (essential for both focus peaking and magnification).
Click to expand...
Sensor-based focusing is not in any way essential for focus peaking or magnification. The only hardware requirement for those features is live view. Several SLT models (A57, A58, A65, A77, etc.) have both of those features without any sensor-based autofocusing.

To be specific, peaking is accomplished by analyzing contrast between live view pixels, and magnification is accomplished by upsampling (enlarging) live view pixels. AF is not involved at all.
Click to expand...
Except he is 100% right..

Question: where are those pixels being analyzed? What is being magnified.?

Its the image from the SENSOR... NO sensor image.. no focus peaking.. nor imagination..

He didn't say Sensor located PD sensors.. So really he is 100% right as the A850 doesn't even have live view.. However.. it only takes Live view to offer either of those functions.. it has nothing to dp do with SLT.. as it is actually not using the PD sensors SLT was designed to feed. Nor is it using any PD sensor.. but again.. he never said anything about PD sensor.. just The Sensor..
 
sybersitizen said:
TomHJ said:
... recognizing that for sports, action, and fast-moving people nothing will replace the increasingly sophisticated AF bodies and lenses--recent sensor-based technologies (such as focus peaking and magnification--have revitalized MF lenses for a lot of purposes. The a850, unfortunately, can use neither, as it doesn't have sensor-based focusing (essential for both focus peaking and magnification).
Click to expand...
Sensor-based focusing is not in any way essential for focus peaking or magnification. The only hardware requirement for those features is live view. Several SLT models (A57, A58, A65, A77, etc.) have both of those features without any sensor-based autofocusing.

To be specific, peaking is accomplished by analyzing contrast between live view pixels, and magnification is accomplished by upsampling (enlarging) live view pixels. AF is not involved at all.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I disagree with you. The a850 didn't have live view, which is a sensor-based feed. How are you distinguishing between live view and sensor-based focusing (NOT autofocusing, which if you read my posting, wasn't involved)? The purpose of "live view" is to read off the sensor. I really respect you and tbcass (who made the same point), but I need to be educated as to why I'm 100% wrong and taking "incorrect ideas" and "repeating them as facts." How do you do "live view" without reading it off the sensor?
 
K E Hoffman said:
sybersitizen said:
TomHJ said:
... recognizing that for sports, action, and fast-moving people nothing will replace the increasingly sophisticated AF bodies and lenses--recent sensor-based technologies (such as focus peaking and magnification--have revitalized MF lenses for a lot of purposes. The a850, unfortunately, can use neither, as it doesn't have sensor-based focusing (essential for both focus peaking and magnification).
Click to expand...
Sensor-based focusing is not in any way essential for focus peaking or magnification. The only hardware requirement for those features is live view. Several SLT models (A57, A58, A65, A77, etc.) have both of those features without any sensor-based autofocusing.

To be specific, peaking is accomplished by analyzing contrast between live view pixels, and magnification is accomplished by upsampling (enlarging) live view pixels. AF is not involved at all.
Click to expand...
Except he is 100% right..

Question: where are those pixels being analyzed? What is being magnified.?

Its the image from the SENSOR... NO sensor image.. no focus peaking.. nor imagination..

He didn't say Sensor located PD sensors..
Click to expand...
He said sensor-based focusing, which I construed as sensor-based autofocusing. Perhaps I and others misunderstood his intended meaning.
K E Hoffman said:
So really he is 100% right as the A850 doesn't even have live view.. However.. it only takes Live view to offer either of those functions.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I said. But now that I think about it, even that can be misconstrued. There is at least one type of live view system that relies on a separate image sensor residing in the camera's pentamirror, and which would probably not support these features very well at all.
K E Hoffman said:
. it has nothing to dp do with SLT.. as it is actually not using the PD sensors SLT was designed to feed. Nor is it using any PD sensor.. but again.. he never said anything about PD sensor.. just The Sensor..
Click to expand...
Fine.
 
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sybersitizen said:
K E Hoffman said:
sybersitizen said:
TomHJ said:
... recognizing that for sports, action, and fast-moving people nothing will replace the increasingly sophisticated AF bodies and lenses--recent sensor-based technologies (such as focus peaking and magnification--have revitalized MF lenses for a lot of purposes. The a850, unfortunately, can use neither, as it doesn't have sensor-based focusing (essential for both focus peaking and magnification).
Click to expand...
Sensor-based focusing is not in any way essential for focus peaking or magnification. The only hardware requirement for those features is live view. Several SLT models (A57, A58, A65, A77, etc.) have both of those features without any sensor-based autofocusing.

To be specific, peaking is accomplished by analyzing contrast between live view pixels, and magnification is accomplished by upsampling (enlarging) live view pixels. AF is not involved at all.
Click to expand...
Except he is 100% right..

Question: where are those pixels being analyzed? What is being magnified.?

Its the image from the SENSOR... NO sensor image.. no focus peaking.. nor imagination..

He didn't say Sensor located PD sensors..
Click to expand...
He said sensor-based focusing. Perhaps I misunderstood his meaning.
sybersitizen said:
So really he is 100% right as the A850 doesn't even have live view.. However.. it only takes Live view to offer either of those functions.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I said.
sybersitizen said:
. it has nothing to dp do with SLT.. as it is actually not using the PD sensors SLT was designed to feed. Nor is it using any PD sensor.. but again.. he never said anything about PD sensor.. just The Sensor..
Click to expand...
Fine.
Click to expand...
I understand that focus peaking and magnification both work off (essentially) the sensor's contrast-based feed to the EVF (or LCD). Phase detection isn't involved. (Is there some magic to the phrase "sensor-based focusing" that implies phase detection? If so, I wasn't aware of the convention and apologize. In my view, sensor-based focusing is still analyzing focus, via live view, that comes off of the sensor--and, admittedly, almost certainly contrast-based.) What did I say--in commenting on manual focus differences between the a850 and either SLT cameras (I own both the a77 and a65) or mirrorless cameras (I own the a7) that was so clearly wrong to provoke the sharply negative response?
 
sybersitizen said:
K E Hoffman said:
sybersitizen said:
TomHJ said:
... recognizing that for sports, action, and fast-moving people nothing will replace the increasingly sophisticated AF bodies and lenses--recent sensor-based technologies (such as focus peaking and magnification--have revitalized MF lenses for a lot of purposes. The a850, unfortunately, can use neither, as it doesn't have sensor-based focusing (essential for both focus peaking and magnification).
Click to expand...
Sensor-based focusing is not in any way essential for focus peaking or magnification. The only hardware requirement for those features is live view. Several SLT models (A57, A58, A65, A77, etc.) have both of those features without any sensor-based autofocusing.

To be specific, peaking is accomplished by analyzing contrast between live view pixels, and magnification is accomplished by upsampling (enlarging) live view pixels. AF is not involved at all.
Click to expand...
Except he is 100% right..

Question: where are those pixels being analyzed? What is being magnified.?

Its the image from the SENSOR... NO sensor image.. no focus peaking.. nor imagination..

He didn't say Sensor located PD sensors..
Click to expand...
He said sensor-based focusing, which I construed as sensor-based autofocusing. Perhaps I and others misunderstood his intended meaning.
Click to expand...
Yes since he was talking about Manual Focus lenses ;) it happens no biggy..
sybersitizen said:
sybersitizen said:
So really he is 100% right as the A850 doesn't even have live view.. However.. it only takes Live view to offer either of those functions.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I said. But now that I think about it, even that can be misconstrued. There is at least one type of live view system that relies on a separate image sensor residing in the camera's pentamirror, and which would probably not support these features very well at all.
Click to expand...
Yup good catch.. forgot about Sony's first liveview,
sybersitizen said:
sybersitizen said:
. it has nothing to dp do with SLT.. as it is actually not using the PD sensors SLT was designed to feed. Nor is it using any PD sensor.. but again.. he never said anything about PD sensor.. just The Sensor..
Click to expand...
Fine.
Click to expand...
 
TomHJ said:
sybersitizen said:
K E Hoffman said:
sybersitizen said:
TomHJ said:
... recognizing that for sports, action, and fast-moving people nothing will replace the increasingly sophisticated AF bodies and lenses--recent sensor-based technologies (such as focus peaking and magnification--have revitalized MF lenses for a lot of purposes. The a850, unfortunately, can use neither, as it doesn't have sensor-based focusing (essential for both focus peaking and magnification).
Click to expand...
Sensor-based focusing is not in any way essential for focus peaking or magnification. The only hardware requirement for those features is live view. Several SLT models (A57, A58, A65, A77, etc.) have both of those features without any sensor-based autofocusing.

To be specific, peaking is accomplished by analyzing contrast between live view pixels, and magnification is accomplished by upsampling (enlarging) live view pixels. AF is not involved at all.
Click to expand...
Except he is 100% right..

Question: where are those pixels being analyzed? What is being magnified.?

Its the image from the SENSOR... NO sensor image.. no focus peaking.. nor imagination..

He didn't say Sensor located PD sensors..
Click to expand...
He said sensor-based focusing, which I construed as sensor-based autofocusing. Perhaps I and others misunderstood his intended meaning.
TomHJ said:
So really he is 100% right as the A850 doesn't even have live view.. However.. it only takes Live view to offer either of those functions.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I said. But now that I think about it, even that can be misconstrued. There is at least one type of live view system that relies on a separate image sensor residing in the camera's pentamirror, and which would probably not support these features very well at all.
TomHJ said:
. it has nothing to dp do with SLT.. as it is actually not using the PD sensors SLT was designed to feed. Nor is it using any PD sensor.. but again.. he never said anything about PD sensor.. just The Sensor..
Click to expand...
Fine.
Click to expand...
I understand that focus peaking and magnification both work off (essentially) the sensor's contrast-based feed to the EVF (or LCD). Phase detection isn't involved. (Is there some magic to the phrase "sensor-based focusing" that implies phase detection? If so, I wasn't aware of the convention and apologize. In my view, sensor-based focusing is still analyzing focus, via live view, that comes off of the sensor--and, admittedly, almost certainly contrast-based.) What did I say--in commenting on manual focus differences between the a850 and either SLT cameras (I own both the a77 and a65) or mirrorless cameras (I own the a7) that was so clearly wrong to provoke the sharply negative response?
Click to expand...
My 'sharply negative response' - if that's how it was perceived - was due to a misunderstanding on my part that 1) you thought autofocusing was taking place on the image sensor, and 2) you thought that was a requirement for peaking and magnification. I withdraw that response and apologize for not understanding your original intent.
 
sybersitizen said:
TomHJ said:
sybersitizen said:
K E Hoffman said:
sybersitizen said:
TomHJ said:
... recognizing that for sports, action, and fast-moving people nothing will replace the increasingly sophisticated AF bodies and lenses--recent sensor-based technologies (such as focus peaking and magnification--have revitalized MF lenses for a lot of purposes. The a850, unfortunately, can use neither, as it doesn't have sensor-based focusing (essential for both focus peaking and magnification).
Click to expand...
Sensor-based focusing is not in any way essential for focus peaking or magnification. The only hardware requirement for those features is live view. Several SLT models (A57, A58, A65, A77, etc.) have both of those features without any sensor-based autofocusing.

To be specific, peaking is accomplished by analyzing contrast between live view pixels, and magnification is accomplished by upsampling (enlarging) live view pixels. AF is not involved at all.
Click to expand...
Except he is 100% right..

Question: where are those pixels being analyzed? What is being magnified.?

Its the image from the SENSOR... NO sensor image.. no focus peaking.. nor imagination..

He didn't say Sensor located PD sensors..
Click to expand...
He said sensor-based focusing, which I construed as sensor-based autofocusing. Perhaps I and others misunderstood his intended meaning.
sybersitizen said:
So really he is 100% right as the A850 doesn't even have live view.. However.. it only takes Live view to offer either of those functions.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I said. But now that I think about it, even that can be misconstrued. There is at least one type of live view system that relies on a separate image sensor residing in the camera's pentamirror, and which would probably not support these features very well at all.
sybersitizen said:
. it has nothing to dp do with SLT.. as it is actually not using the PD sensors SLT was designed to feed. Nor is it using any PD sensor.. but again.. he never said anything about PD sensor.. just The Sensor..
Click to expand...
Fine.
Click to expand...
I understand that focus peaking and magnification both work off (essentially) the sensor's contrast-based feed to the EVF (or LCD). Phase detection isn't involved. (Is there some magic to the phrase "sensor-based focusing" that implies phase detection? If so, I wasn't aware of the convention and apologize. In my view, sensor-based focusing is still analyzing focus, via live view, that comes off of the sensor--and, admittedly, almost certainly contrast-based.) What did I say--in commenting on manual focus differences between the a850 and either SLT cameras (I own both the a77 and a65) or mirrorless cameras (I own the a7) that was so clearly wrong to provoke the sharply negative response?
Click to expand...
My 'sharply negative response' - if that's how it was perceived - was due to a misunderstanding on my part that 1) you thought autofocusing was taking place on the image sensor, and 2) you thought that was a requirement for peaking and magnification. I withdraw that response and apologize for not understanding your original intent.
Click to expand...
I genuinely appreciate this response. And, yes, I was misunderstood.

My prior responses were to two postings that have since been significantly modified. They make my quotations look puzzling. since they no longer respond to anything that can be found in current postings....
 
TomHJ said:
TomHJ wrote:.

My prior responses were to two postings that have since been significantly modified. They make my quotations look puzzling. since they no longer respond to anything that can be found in current postings....
Click to expand...
I know what you mean. This happens because posts in the forum can be edited several times (that's a great thing because I rarely can type anything right the first time)... but in some of those cases, overlapping replies have arrived in the meantime and thus they don't contain or reference the recent edits. Then people have to decide if putting the 'updated edits' back into the thread will make things less or more confusing than not doing that. Again, apologies for taking the discussion off track.
 
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tbcass said:
mrmjs said:
I owned both the a77/a900 and to me there was a difference in image quality. The a900 was better then the a77 in my opinion, at least between my copies. If anything you can pickup a used a58/77 for video, but I surly wouldn't sell the a900 for one.
Click to expand...
Technology marches on. If you check the link to iso800 comparison below the A77ii actually appears to have better IQ than the A900. For FF the A900 isn't that impressive any more.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

Even DXO rates the A77ii a bit higher overall.

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...T-Alpha-77-II-versus-Sony-Alpha-900___953_371

Add to that the A77ii has far more advanced auto focus, more advanced features and video it appears to me it is a better camera than the A900.
Click to expand...
 
tbcass said:
mrmjs said:
I owned both the a77/a900 and to me there was a difference in image quality. The a900 was better then the a77 in my opinion, at least between my copies. If anything you can pickup a used a58/77 for video, but I surly wouldn't sell the a900 for one.
Click to expand...
Technology marches on. If you check the link to iso800 comparison below the A77ii actually appears to have better IQ than the A900. For FF the A900 isn't that impressive any more.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. You can't get the output of a FF camera with an APS-C camera. Same applies for MF vs FF. Different tools for different purposes...
 
So this thread exploded pretty fast :-O

Read everyones response even the ones that got a little off topic lol but I really appreciate it, I think for sports the APS-C SLTs do have an advantage over the a900, the crop factor would actually help for zoom purposes and faster drive mode.

and besides that if I need an camera that's non sports I believe the crop sensors will still do fine even if the event gets dark because of off strobes. So now that I think about it, it almost feels like APS-C is best for me?

Lighter body that's for sure compared to my a900, faster shutter speeds, and new tech allows decent low light performance...Looking at all this unless you are a purist and value OVF's then it seems that its just out dated especially if you need a work horse that CAN do both video and Stills and well at that. I suppose that's why I felt that the a900 almost limited me ;[

...Either way I don't think ill sell it haha
 
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