It's all in the name

ConanD · Sep 10, 2014

Being a techie kinda guy, when I first started getting into photography, I knew I needed to join an internet forum to ask questions and learn. So I Googled something along the lines of, "photography forum" and this one popped right to the top. Except I hesitated and wondered if there was something wrong with Google, or if my computer had been hacked, because it seemed really strange that those search terms would give me a URL that is synonymous with a certain segment of porn. Then I saw the words, "Digital Photography" and went, "oooooooh. OK."

And it's not just me. When I refer my friends to this site (who are of course just as perverted as I am), they immediately ask if that's really the site I meant to refer them to for my pictures. In which case I have to explain how I made the same incorrect assumption upon first reading the domain name. It's akin to www.msexchange.org, which is a website for Microsoft Exchange help and NOT a website helping men get in touch with their feminine side.

Are there any plans in the future to move to a new domain name? Might I suggest

DPhotoReview
DigitalPhotoReview
DigPhoReview
...

Or any, ANY, other domain with "Photo" or "photography" in place of DP. Maybe put it up for a vote?

I'm sure this has been addressed before (especially considering the medium), but searching for it is a bit....tough. So feel free to lock, delete or otherwise dispose of this thread.

Hephaestus · Sep 10, 2014

I completely agree. Not that difficult to implement, as domain name redirection would take care of users who already know the "dpreview" address. Unfortunately the owners of this site already missed opportunity to have a nice, descriptive domain URL many years ago - most (all?) good domain names relating to digital photography are already owned by someone.

darklamp · Sep 11, 2014

Most people don't find things on the internet by such crude methods as looking for domain names. They almost all use search engines ( and mostly Google ).

Now it is something of an art form getting and keeping your site high on search engine results. I presume DPR has some knowledge of this, but if they need anything it's DPR to appear on the first page of searchs like "photography". If you type e.g. "photo review" or "camera review" they're first on Google when I search.

About the most important way they could drive more traffic is to get themselves higher on more photography related searches. That's pretty hard to do in practice and it's an ongoing "war" for all active websites.

So they might try that to get more traffic, but just changing domain won't do diddly squat for them, IMO.

ConanD · Sep 11, 2014

darklamp said:
Most people don't find things on the internet by such crude methods as looking for domain names. They almost all use search engines ( and mostly Google ).

Correct. I'm not sure where you would get the idea that I was suggesting that people are searching by domain name. My example even shows searching by words in Google. But some people will avoid clicking on links with suspicious sounding domain names, which is why it matters.

darklamp said:
Now it is something of an art form getting and keeping your site high on search engine results.

... That's pretty hard to do in practice...

Not at all -- at least not from a technical standpoint. It's somewhat time consuming but well documented and not all that complicated. However, my motivation for posting isn't to get this site more hits, it's to avoid my own mild embarrassment at having to explain the domain name to people that think I'm trying to trick them into clicking on a porn link. And, as I pointed out, I'm not the only one.

darklamp said:
So they might try that to get more traffic, but just changing domain won't do diddly squat for them, IMO.

At this stage, I would agree. This site has been around for a long time and is well established. However, there are clearly people who think twice about clicking on the link because of the name, which means there's a potential to lose at least some traffic. How much is anyone's guess.

My post was a bit tongue in cheek, but with some hope that *might* happen, although I don't really expect it to.

dick52717 · Sep 12, 2014

Since I'm not a pervert (at least I don't think so), I can't imagine how DP would somehow be related to Pornography.

Olga Johnson · Sep 12, 2014

LOL! Join the club! I find it funny that just because some initials mean something else to some folks (not all necessarily perverts), we should avoid them. Why get rid of legitimate initials just because some may use it for something else that most of us don't even know what they are talking about? That isn't even political correctness; it's paranoid correctness. Let's see, who else should get rid of their name? ADP, EDP, ODP (Office Depot), IDP, etc. And let's get rid of DPI!! How dare they use such initials?

ConanD · Sep 12, 2014

Olga Johnson said:
Why get rid of legitimate initials just because some may use it for something else that most of us don't even know what they are talking about?

Where are your figures to support the claim that you are in the majority? Are you under the impression that it's just me and a couple of other guys that are responsible for a multi-billion dollar industry?

Olga Johnson said:
That isn't even political correctness; it's paranoid correctness.

Most successful businesses, those that spend thousands of dollars making sure that a given name has the broadest market appeal, would argue otherwise.

Olga Johnson said:
Let's see, who else should get rid of their name? ADP, EDP, ODP (Office Depot), IDP, etc. And let's get rid of DPI!! How dare they use such initials.

That's an interesting interpretation. I don't remember saying that or even implying it.

darklamp · Sep 12, 2014

ConanD said:
ConanD said:

Why get rid of legitimate initials just because some may use it for something else that most of us don't even know what they are talking about?

Click to expand...

Where are your figures to support the claim that you are in the majority ?

You're the one wanting a change made so you're the one who has to supply evidence. People wanting it to be left alone ( and as this is the number one photo review website, why not ? ) don't have to prove anything.

ConanD said:
Are you under the impression that it's just me and a couple of other guys that are responsible for a multi-billion dollar industry?

You weren't mentioned in that context. You're reading more into that than was intended.

ConanD said:
ConanD said:

That isn't even political correctness; it's paranoid correctness.

Click to expand...

Most successful businesses, those that spend thousands of dollars making sure that a given name has the broadest market appeal, would argue otherwise.

They spend billions ( trillions probably ) on wasteful administrative procedures, entertainment, PR, lawyers battling over ridiculous patents and of course on insane salaries for senior executives who do not, as far as anyone can tell, make the slightest difference to the advancement of the companies and are entirely interchangeable in practice.

The fact that these businesses do something is not a reason to copy them blindly. A smart business evolves it's own approaches to solving it's own problems.

ConanD said:
ConanD said:

Let's see, who else should get rid of their name? ADP, EDP, ODP (Office Depot), IDP, etc. And let's get rid of DPI!! How dare they use such initials.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting interpretation. I don't remember saying that or even implying it.

Well in fact you just said we should follow all these other successful organizations and now you're complaining that other organizations who are happy the way they are with the "problem" you claim is there are wrong.

Can't have it both ways. The problem you have essentially proven yourself is that this "problem" has not actually caused any issue.

ConanD · Sep 12, 2014

darklamp said:
darklamp said:

Where are your figures to support the claim that you are in the majority ?

Click to expand...

You're the one wanting a change made so you're the one who has to supply evidence. People wanting it to be left alone ( and as this is the number one photo review website, why not ? ) don't have to prove anything.

Hmmm. I thought it was "making a claim" that needed to supply evidence, not "wanting a change". And a claim of "most" was made.

darklamp said:
They spend billions ( trillions probably ) on wasteful administrative procedures, entertainment, PR, lawyers battling over ridiculous patents and of course on insane salaries for senior executives who do not, as far as anyone can tell, make the slightest difference to the advancement of the companies and are entirely interchangeable in practice.

I don't see the relevance. Seems like a straw man argument.

darklamp said:
A smart business evolves it's own approaches to solving it's own problems.

I've found that most (not all -- there are corner cases for everything) success anywhere comes from studying, directly or indirectly, how others' have succeeded. No one invents in a vacuum.

darklamp said:
Well in fact you just said we should follow all these other successful organizations

Not seeing those words in my posts. Can you point me to them?

darklamp said:
and now you're complaining that other organizations who are happy the way they are with the "problem" you claim is there are wrong.

Again, not seeing where I said that. I could be missing it.

darklamp said:
Can't have it both ways.

Which ways are those?

darklamp said:
The problem you have essentially proven yourself is that this "problem" has not actually caused any issue.

Now this I agree with. And already made a similar statement.

dick52717 · Sep 12, 2014

And after all that, we still don't know what exactly you're talking about.

Hephaestus · Sep 13, 2014

**** said:
And after all that, we still don't know what exactly you're talking about.

dick52717 · Sep 13, 2014

Hephaestus said:
**** said:

And after all that, we still don't know what exactly you're talking about.

Click to expand...

billythek · Sep 13, 2014

Good grief! I think your mind must be in the gutter to come up with that one. Most people who would be offended by a sexual reference wouldn't know that one. And those that know what you are referring to have no right to get upset.

This post reminds me of Bevis and Butthead. Heh, heh, he said DP...
--
- Bill

Hephaestus · Sep 13, 2014

...

dick52717 said:
the question was not even directed to you.

You appear to be unclear about the "forum" concept. It is not a private conversation where one can join by invitation only. It is a community where any registered member can join at any time (and should be welcomed by other members to do so).

BTW, you did not ask a "question". You made a comment expressing your confusion, which I believe I have fully clarified, and used examples to illustrate. You even conted how many words I used, apparently 200.

You appear to be really keen to look at specific links to adult interests sites the OP hinted exist - I believe this is not relevant, but if you are really that interested, seek and you shall find. This, however, is not the right place to expand on that specific topic (most members, I am guessing, would find it of little interest anyway).

I am not counting, but I think this is close to another 200 words - close to mental saturation point, I believe. Bye for now, and have a good day, Sir.

Hephaestus · Sep 13, 2014

billythek said:
Good grief! I think your mind must be in the gutter to come up with that one. Most people who would be offended by a sexual reference wouldn't know that one. And those that know what you are referring to have no right to get upset.

This post reminds me of Bevis and Butthead. Heh, heh, he said DP...
--
- Bill

This is not really relevant. The point made by the OP, as I understand it, is that hardly anyone associates "dp" with "digital photography", and why stress "review" in the name? This site does so much more than the reviews. Of course there are many sites which are unable to use clear, descriptive and relevant names, because they are already taken by someone. Many people also think that a short, descriptive domain name is thing of the past, and not that important - indeed, there is some merit in that argument.

The OP argument could as well apply if someone was selling Ford spare parts, and was using a domain name commonly associated with, say, paperclips. Just a bit confusing, and if such association is potentially with topics many people would avoid, potentially harming commercial interests of the owners.

Olga Johnson · Sep 14, 2014

I'm sure he gets changing of domain names. But none of your words gave him the true reason. For all I know even you haven't been able to understand why, just as I had not, and it's a subject that cannot be discussed in public.

Hephaestus · Sep 14, 2014

Olga Johnson said:
I'm sure he gets changing of domain names. But none of your words gave him the true reason. For all I know even you haven't been able to understand why, just as I had not, and it's a subject that cannot be discussed in public.

--
Olga

The true reason is that for people who do know this site and see URL "www.dpreview.com" are highly unlikely to understand (before visiting) what this site is about.

I believe I explained this in details a few posts up, where, to illustrate, I gave an example of a meaningful and clear domain name "nappavalywines.com", and a much less meaningful "npvawin.com". The "dpreview.com" is as unclear and meaningless as "npvawin.com". I also mentioned that some may not agree with importance of having clear, descriptive domain names.

The unusual associations some people may have when slowly reading "dpreview" is a secondary issue. Not sure what gave you the impression that "even I do not understand why", specially that as you said, and as I said, this is not the place to spell it out for those a bit slower to get it.

I find all that rather trivial and easy to understand. However now I have to accept that some may not.

darklamp · Sep 15, 2014

My experience of people is that they will click on a link and visit a website offered up by a Google search without the slightest hesitation or thought about the domain name's meaning or relevance.

We have gotten very used to simply going to Google ( or similar ) and typing in a search term ( "camera review" ) and clicking whatever links come up until we find one we like the look of.

And we're even more used to asking other internet contacts ( by email or other forums ) what's a good website, so that old, old business tool positive word of mouth is still probably the most important way to get your site noticed.

So I think all this talk about the domain name is irrelevant to the way people operate in practice.

If DPR were called "robotnutfactory.com" I think they'd get just as many visitors. For goodness sakes, *google" didn't waste buying "search.com" ( owned by CBS in fact

), they just invented a name and marketed that name. It's proof of the irrelevance of domain names in the modern world.

It's all about getting a link to your arbitrarily named website high up on search engine results your target audience is likely to be looking at.

ConanD · Sep 15, 2014

I was done until this post, which I felt compelled to make in hopes of helping others within the realm of personal information security. While I may know nothing about photography, I've been a scientist, software engineer and systems engineer for roughly 15 years, so I can speak with relative confidence about the topic at hand.

darklamp said:
My experience of people is that they will click on a link and visit a website offered up by a Google search without the slightest hesitation or thought about the domain name's meaning or relevance.

Unfortunately, this is true for many people.

darklamp said:
And we're even more used to asking other internet contacts ( by email or other forums ) what's a good website, so that old, old business tool positive word of mouth is still probably the most important way to get your site noticed.

Maybe. Combine the first point with this one and you get what's known as a phishing attack. They exist because people in general will blindly click on a link without looking at the domain of the link AND without checking the domain of the sender.

darklamp said:
If DPR were called "robotnutfactory.com" I think they'd get just as many visitors. For goodness sakes, *google" didn't waste buying "search.com" ( owned by CBS in fact ), they just invented a name and marketed that name. It's proof of the irrelevance of domain names in the modern world.

That is hardly proof. Merely your observation and your own conclusion -- and an incorrect one in my experience. Businesses, both honest and nefarious, use specific domain names because people do pay attention to them. It they didn't what would be the point of getting a specific name? Many sinister sites use the names of honest sites to get traffic their way (eg using "nikon.org" to trick people into thinking they are talking with nikonusa.com).

darklamp said:
It's all about getting a link to your arbitrarily named website high up on search engine results your target audience is likely to be looking at.

There are many underhanded individuals who know how to get their domain to "high up" on search results just like honest ones. They can even have their domain setup to be grouped with results that have nothing to do with their content. For example I could have a site called cutepuppies.com that shows up when you search for "nikon 35mm dx lens f/2.8". It's done all the time.

My impression is that you seem to think that "no one" looks at domain names. Maybe you are generalizing. I would say that a very significant percentage of those on the internet don't stop to think about the implications of clicking on a hyperlink. But there are many people (most IT professionals, for a start) who know that very bad things can happen with a simple url click, and looking at the domain is at least one very easy way to avoid scams and malicious sites.

darklamp · Sep 15, 2014

ConanD said:
Maybe you are generalizing.

What else would I be doing in this context ?

What else are you doing in this context ?

ConanD said:
I would say that a very significant percentage of those on the internet don't stop to think about the implications of clicking on a hyperlink.

The vast majority in my experience.

Humans, by and large, don't think about the implications of what they do in any context. Large brains, but mostly unused.

ConanD said:
But there are many people (most IT professionals, for a start)

Most IT professionals are just human and speaking as an IT professional I can say that they're just as likely to do what most people do - i.e. act without thinking.

You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

And that's not most people, juts a small group of people. The days are long, long gone when the internet was dominated by IT people or even computer savvy people. I think many IT people still cling to a kind of mental "ownership" of the internet, but it's not the case. If anyone dominates the internet it's kids and young adults and neither category are known for their considered and careful thought processes.

ConanD said:
who know that very bad things can happen with a simple url click, and looking at the domain is at least one very easy way to avoid scams and malicious sites.

You're fighting human nature here. If there's one thing human history tells us it's that people do NOT do what's "simplest" if it's simpler and easier to just take the chance.

Good ways to kill yourself quickly : smoke, drink, drive carelessly and/or at speed. Spot the list of things people keep doing anyway ? I've two relatives who nearly died from cancer and none of this has stopped or deterred my smoking relatives in the slightest.

You're expecting logical behavior from a species which has never done it. Head back to Vulcan - Earth isn't for you.

Seriously, it's just not what people do.

It's all in the name

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