Petition for a Professional OVF camera successor of Sony A99 !

tbcass · Sep 7, 2014

Endos said:
This is true but not always, for example if you are shooting outdoors in bright sunlight, the OVFs are brighter, and with much more DR than EVFs, and this is a big advantage.

I shot with SLRs for 35 years and I never found greater DR in a viewfinder to be an advantage. In fact the lesser DR of an EVF is more useful to me because combined with the histogram it represents a more realistic representation of what the final image will be. As for an OVF being easier to see in bright sunlight, this is true and is why I wear a baseball cap to shade the sun. OVFs do have some advantages but not enough compared to an EVF to make my want to go back.

I'm a very pragmatic person and when I list the advantages of an OVF vs an EVF and the disadvantages of each for me the EVF wins.

To get the most out of an EVF takes a lot of practice. If you have shot primarily with an OVF I can see where you would prefer it. I also hated EVFs at first but back when I went digital DSLRs were out of my price range so I was forced to learn on EVFs that sucked big time compared to what we have today but I stuck with it until I preferred them.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Misuse of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

Endos · Sep 7, 2014

tbcass said:
Endos said:

This is true but not always, for example if you are shooting outdoors in bright sunlight, the OVFs are brighter, and with much more DR than EVFs, and this is a big advantage.

Click to expand...

I shot with SLRs for 35 years and I never found greater DR in a viewfinder to be an advantage. In fact the lesser DR of an EVF is more useful to me because combined with the histogram it represents a more realistic representation of what the final image will be. As for an OVF being easier to see in bright sunlight, this is true and is why I wear a baseball cap to shade the sun. OVFs do have some advantages but not enough compared to an EVF to make my want to go back.

I'm a very pragmatic person and when I list the advantages of an OVF vs an EVF and the disadvantages of each for me the EVF wins.

To get the most out of an EVF takes a lot of practice. If you have shot primarily with an OVF I can see where you would prefer it. I also hated EVFs at first but back when I went digital DSLRs were out of my price range so I was forced to learn on EVFs that sucked big time compared to what we have today but I stuck with it until I preferred them.

K E Hoffman · Sep 7, 2014

tremulo said:
I totally agree with Giuseppe, optical viewfinder is essential for professional photo, otherwise I should not be named SLR.

Sony, please, pro SLR with OVF!!

"Horses are essential to proper farming.. no real farmer would use a tractor." We have heard this before.. Too many well known Pros like Brian Smith making good money using Sony EVFs for this statement to be true.

You may have limitations in what you are able to work with, don't hide behind the "Pros Need This" canard to deal with your own personal limits.

K E Hoffman · Sep 7, 2014

tremulo said:
I totally agree with Giuseppe, optical viewfinder is essential for professional photo, otherwise I should not be named SLR.

Sony, please, pro SLR with OVF!!

There is no Optical View Finder in "SLR" There is Single Lens.. and the whole point of the reflex mirror was to show you what the film would see.. why would I want a mechanical workaround when I can actually SEE what the sensor IS seeing..

Again.. Too many well paid Pros using Sony for this kind of statement to be true... Your limits are your limitations.. But plenty or real Pros can and do USE EVFs and SLT Sony's. So clearly an OVF is not essential for Professional Photography..

Pros who show Sony and EVFs

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briansmith.com

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www.garyfong.com

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www.merakoh.com

tbcass · Sep 7, 2014

Endos said:
EVFs can't show more than 8 or 9 EVs when modern sensors can capture over 14 EVs of DR. There is a hole of 5EV that the sensor can capture but the viewfinder is unable to show. This is my problem with current EVFs as I'm exclusively shooting outdoors in bright sunlight with studio flashes to light the models.

Have you actually used EVFs much? If what you say is accurate then why has it never been a problem for me? Remember monitors and prints do not have 14 EV of DR and many professional studio photographers use external monitors rather than the viewfinders on their cameras. Being able to see more DR than your final print or Monitor can be reproduce is of no advantage. If your worried about exposure use of the histogram solves that problem. Personally I don't believe you've used an EVF enough to master it.

One thing I don't want to do is get sucked into one of these EVF vs OVF debates again because in the end they never go anywhere, it's personal preference and opinion. It's not that important because I know any type of photography can be done successfully with either type of viewfinder. I know what works best for me. End of discussion.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Misuse of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

Endos · Sep 8, 2014

tbcass said:
Endos said:

EVFs can't show more than 8 or 9 EVs when modern sensors can capture over 14 EVs of DR. There is a hole of 5EV that the sensor can capture but the viewfinder is unable to show. This is my problem with current EVFs as I'm exclusively shooting outdoors in bright sunlight with studio flashes to light the models.

Click to expand...

Have you actually used EVFs much? If what you say is accurate then why has it never been a problem for me?

Because you don't make the type of photography I do. I used EVFs enough.

tbcass said:
Remember monitors and prints do not have 14 EV of DR and many professional studio photographers use external monitors rather than the viewfinders on their cameras.

I don't shot in studio, I do all my works in outdoors, in bright sunlight.

tbcass said:
Being able to see more DR than your final print or Monitor can be reproduce is of no advantage. If your worried about exposure use of the histogram solves that problem. Personally I don't believe you've used an EVF enough to master it.

I don't need the histogram to make perfect exposures. I get them all the time. The problem I have is that the models in those lighting conditions appear black in the viewfinder. I need to see her faces!

You has a photo in your flickr that shows approximately how it will show in an EVF:

https://flic.kr/p/9Unm1c

I work in similar lighting conditions, but I illuminate the models with flashes so the final image has much lower DR that the real scene.

I need more DR or a manual adjustment for the EVF to avoid seeing the model black or see the background as I wish. It's a firmware update, nothing more!

tbcass said:
One thing I don't want to do is get sucked into one of these EVF vs OVF debates again because in the end they never go anywhere, it's personal preference and opinion. It's not that important because I know any type of photography can be done successfully with either type of viewfinder. I know what works best for me. End of discussion.

Yes, it's personal preference, and limitations of current implementation that Sony can change by adding some features that will make it useful for the type of light I work.

Dave Oddie · Sep 8, 2014

From what you say you don't need an OVF, you need a bigger battery. Why not get the battery grip for the A99?

Sony isn't going to make an OVF camera again.

It's been the case for a while now if that is what you wanted for whatever reason you needed to switch systems or run two systems.

tbcass · Sep 8, 2014

The A77ii EVF can be manually adjusted to a much greater degree than previous models.

Endos · Sep 8, 2014

tbcass said:
The A77ii EVF can be manually adjusted to a much greater degree than previous models.

K E Hoffman · Sep 8, 2014

Endos said:
tbcass said:

The A77ii EVF can be manually adjusted to a much greater degree than previous models.

Click to expand...

Brian_Smith · Sep 8, 2014

Endos said:
tbcass said:

The A77ii EVF can be manually adjusted to a much greater degree than previous models.

Tom

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about those adjustments as they doesn't solve anything, but about the software "gain" that is automatically applied to the EVF. If you point your camera to a bright source, it will reduce the brightness/gain in the EVF, and if you point the camera to a dark zone, it will increase the brightness/gain in the EVF to show what's in the shadows. I want to control this, manually!

Regards,
Juan

Hello Juan,

Gain is only applied to normalize the EVF brightness with Live View Off. If you want the brightness of the EVF to reflect the WYSIWYG exposure setting for a given scene - turn Live View On.

RodrigoMiguel · Sep 8, 2014

Sony is so NOT going to make an OVF camera again, that I predict that Nikon would first make an A-mount camera than Sony going back to pentaprisms.

You will never again get a Sony OVF FF/APS-C camera, just like that. Get a Canon or Nikon.

Endos · Sep 8, 2014

K E Hoffman said:
Endos said:

tbcass said:

The A77ii EVF can be manually adjusted to a much greater degree than previous models.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Misuse of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about those adjustments as they doesn't solve anything, but about the software "gain" that is automatically applied to the EVF. If you point your camera to a bright source, it will reduce the brightness/gain in the EVF, and if you point the camera to a dark zone, it will increase the brightness/gain in the EVF to show what's in the shadows. I want to control this, manually!

--
Regards,
Juan
http://500px.com/endosphoto

Click to expand...

Interestingly enough Film and Sensors don't do this, and camera meters like the world to be 18% Gray.. But my eyes do have automatic gain, so when I point an OVF at something bright my iris closes and the OVF gets dark.. and when I point an OVF at something dark My Iris opens. On top of that my brain will shift from favoring Cones to Favoring Rods.. causing color shifts when working in low light.

Very often what my Eye sees and what a camera with no exposure compensation will image are two totally different things.. To this point.. I have not ruled my eyes out as valuable tools in doing photography..

Not sure why I should rule out an EVF for doing the same thing?

--
K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

Why cameras have a manual mode? Because the automatic modes fail miserably depending what you are trying to do. The same thing happens with the EVF.

In a photo like this, where the camera is pointed to the bright background, you will see the model face totally black. I will love to use an EVF with the focus peaking, but if I can't see the face of the model...

--
Regards,
Juan

500px

500px.com

artlmntl · Sep 8, 2014

You would get a Sony 24MP FF sensor in a body with OVF. You would also get more DR and better high iso than your A900. If you want to spend the extra $$, you could even go for a D810 and get 36MP.

tbcass · Sep 8, 2014

Actually in that case I don't think the model's face would be totally black in the EVF.

Leon van Roosmalen · Sep 8, 2014

Depends, if the model is in the shade and is lighted with flash it could.

I think for both OVF ot EVF there are situations it just doesn't work the way you want it.

Greetings Leon.

JimmyMelbourne · Sep 9, 2014

I have found the opposite applies.

In this situation the OVF does not make the face brighter than the background (unless a light is applied to highlight the face). The OVF is dark on the face and bright on the background. I always found this a big problem with OVF when shooting with sun behind the subject. Using spot metering can alleviate this but it takes time, so not good for situational photography. OK for portrait photography.

topstuff · Sep 10, 2014

Why the hell would Sony just copy Canikon and go backwards at the time when EVF tech is starting to overtake the OVF?

I think I will become President of the Moon before Sony brings out another OVF camera.

I really could not care less if Sony never released another OVF camera ever again.

I prefer the EVF in nearly all situations. I will never go back.

MSnell3 · Sep 10, 2014

I doubt Sony will ever go back to optical.

Endos · Sep 12, 2014

Brian_Smith said:
Endos said:

tbcass said:

The A77ii EVF can be manually adjusted to a much greater degree than previous models.

Tom

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about those adjustments as they doesn't solve anything, but about the software "gain" that is automatically applied to the EVF. If you point your camera to a bright source, it will reduce the brightness/gain in the EVF, and if you point the camera to a dark zone, it will increase the brightness/gain in the EVF to show what's in the shadows. I want to control this, manually!

Regards,
Juan

Click to expand...

Hello Juan,

Gain is only applied to normalize the EVF brightness with Live View Off. If you want the brightness of the EVF to reflect the WYSIWYG exposure setting for a given scene - turn Live View On.

Petition for a Professional OVF camera successor of Sony A99 !

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