New T5i vs old 400D , pics no better on T5i ?

Arkguy1 · Sep 9, 2014

Hello all , I just bought a T5i as my third DSLR . I had a 300D and sold it for a 400D which I still have , and now a new T5i. I have been taking pics and zooming in on them both from each camera . After seeing no real noticeable improvement in the new T5i , I took pics in manual with each camera . I took the pics within 1 minute of each other . After numerous pics , I wound up trying to be as precise as possible . On each camera I used the same lens , (canon 70-300 IS zoomed to 300mm ) in the M or manual setting .

The shutter speed was 1/100 sec. , ISO of 400 , and f8.0 on both cameras . I used the center single point focus option , on the same spot about 150 ft from the camera . White balance was auto and AF mode was AI focus AF on both cameras and both were at evaluative metering mode .

After a pic of each like that, I took one on each at 1/1000 sec shutter speed .

I viewed all pics using the software that came with the T5i , Digital photo Professional . I viewed all pics at the maximum setting of 200 % expecting to see about a 2x clearer pic from the T5i. when zoomed to 200 %.

400D is a 10 mp camera and T5i is 18mp.

I have gotton the same results no matter what I have tried as I see NO difference between the two cameras pics. Is the normal ? Tom

MisterPootieCat · Sep 9, 2014

Arkguy1 said:
Hello all , I just bought a T5i as my third DSLR . I had a 300D and sold it for a 400D which I still have , and now a new T5i. I have been taking pics and zooming in on them both from each camera . After seeing no real noticeable improvement in the new T5i , I took pics in manual with each camera . I took the pics within 1 minute of each other . After numerous pics , I wound up trying to be as precise as possible . On each camera I used the same lens , (canon 70-300 IS zoomed to 300mm ) in the M or manual setting .

The shutter speed was 1/100 sec. , ISO of 400 , and f8.0 on both cameras . I used the center single point focus option , on the same spot about 150 ft from the camera . White balance was auto and AF mode was AI focus AF on both cameras and both were at evaluative metering mode .

Personally, I use One Shot AF when testing my cameras. Assuming you have the non-L 70-300 zoom you will see much sharper images at the wider end (70mm).

No mention of a tripod, 1/100 second at 300mm is not where I'd want to be when testing a camera and/or lens. For me a tripod is de rigueur when testing my gear.

Arkguy1 said:
After a pic of each like that, I took one on each at 1/1000 sec shutter speed .

I viewed all pics using the software that came with the T5i , Digital photo Professional . I viewed all pics at the maximum setting of 200 % expecting to see about a 2x clearer pic from the T5i. when zoomed to 200 %.

DPP isn't good at 200% zoom, jaggies will ruin just about any image from any camera. Stay at 100% when trying to assess image quality or use a program that does a better job of scaling.

Arkguy1 said:
400D is a 10 mp camera and T5i is 18mp.

I think the newer cameras are using stronger AA filters although I'm unclear on why. My 40D (also a 10mp sensor) appears much sharper than my 7D under the same conditions. But my EOS M with the same 18mp sensor seems to have a weaker AA filter which results in sharper images OOC with no PP. Go figure. Of all of the cameras I own my G10 produces the sharpest JPEG images, the EOS M would be second, the 40D would be third, and the 7D would come in last. You can get much sharper images using DLO and shooting RAW of course.

Arkguy1 said:
I have gotton the same results no matter what I have tried as I see NO difference between the two cameras pics. Is the normal ? Tom

You're looking at images from both cameras at 200%, try looking at the images at a more normal size. As already mentioned, use a program that scales better than DPP. For quick checks of images I find Faststone to be excellent. Even ZoomBrowser does a better job of scaling. Version 4.0 of DPP seems to have this corrected but only supports 4 bodies.

Spend less time worrying about the camera and more time shooting!

Abu Mahendra · Sep 9, 2014

For one, the T5i has better ISO performance. For two, it has 44% more resolution. For three, it has no banding.

--
>> I love the Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens! <<

Arkguy1 · Sep 10, 2014

Thanks for the reply . I do a lot of wildlife photos with my EF-S 1: 4-5.6 lens . I like to crop and zoom my pics. I guess I was thinking that almost twice the resolution with the T5i would alow me to zoom in almost twice as much before pixilation occured .

I did not use a tripod , I did use IS . Was my thinking wrong about the 18 mp advertisment of the T5i sensor? Does it just produce a larger picture without more resolution so to speak ? I do not see any improvement in an ability to crop and zoon my pics .

MisterPootieCat · Sep 10, 2014

Arkguy1 said:
Thanks for the reply . I do a lot of wildlife photos with my EF-S 1: 4-5.6 lens . I like to crop and zoom my pics. I guess I was thinking that almost twice the resolution with the T5i would alow me to zoom in almost twice as much before pixilation occured .

Yes, 18mp is going to allow heavier crops. But viewing any image at 200% in DPP is going to look bad. Do you print at 200% zoom?

Arkguy1 said:
I did not use a tripod , I did use IS . Was my thinking wrong about the 18 mp advertisment of the T5i sensor? Does it just produce a larger picture without more resolution so to speak ? I do not see any improvement in an ability to crop and zoon my pics .

300mm on a cropped camera translates to a 480mm focal length equivalent, most people would consider 1/100 second exposure pushing the limits. But the point I was trying to make is you need to be shooting from a tripod when testing gear. Handheld simply introduces too many variables. If you don't own a tripod then sit the camera on a solid surface and use the self timer to trip the shutter, I would also enable mirror lockup to eliminate mirror slap.

No, a larger sensor means more pixels. More pixels means higher resolution. But like I said before, zooming to 200% with DPP isn't going to make the advantage obvious. I've been a huge fan of DPP since buying my 40D but never use the 200% zoom feature.

Rob Bernhard · Sep 10, 2014

18MP is not almost twice the resolution of 10MP. A sensor has an area: length and height. For every doubling of MP you only get 40% more linear resolution.

The T5i sensor is 5184 x 3456. The 400D sensor is 3888 pixels x 2592 pixels.

The T5i has 33% more resolution of the 400D on the long side and 33% more the resolution of the 400D on the short side.

If you want to double the linear resolution you need to multiple both numbers by 2.

3888 * 2 = 7776

2592 * 2 = 5184

5184 * 7776 = 40MP

A 40MP sensor has twice the resolution of a 10MP sensor.

As others have said, looking at 200% views (in DPP or any other application) is not telling you anything about the images or the image quality. You need to look at the actual output: prints. If you don't print and only post to the web, then your comparison needs to be something other than pure detail. (Dynamic range, the ability to crop, noise levels, etc.).

You may also be interested in this article: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/2011/05/01/why-your-21mp-file-looks-softer-than-your-12mp-image-at-100

Arkguy1 · Sep 10, 2014

Thanks again as you have given me a different way of looking at this and I again have hopes of better zoomed pics. I had been assuming the difference between the two camera's pics would be dramatic , and easily visible when zooming in with DPP . I at present only have older programs that all worked with the 400D camera raw and have to upgrade one , probably paint shop pro ?
The 1/100 second was just a value I used along with the 1/1000 so as to be able to use it on both cameras to exaggerate the results between the two. I used only options that are available on both cameras .
What I plan now is to use a tripod, mirror lockup which I think is available on the 400D and if not, will not use it on either . and the same Av ,ISO , and Tv . Then crop each pic at as close to the same as each other . Then zoom in on them to see any improvement with the T5i. At least I will have the video option with the T5i as an improvement and can now leave the 400D set up with a closer lens for different shots . It seems I always had the wrong lens on the camera when I need it quickly . My other favorite lens I have is a EF-S 17-55 IS 1:2.8 . I do not use video much as my wife brings her video camera and takes care of that at family events etc. I am always trying to be ready for birds /deer ect. in the backyard .

Arkguy1 · Sep 10, 2014

Thankyou for the equation . If I did it correctly the T5i has aprox. 1.34 times the resolution of the D400 , which is still 34% more . This , to me ,should be a visible difference .
I will read the link you listed and hope to learn more on this .

Arkguy1 · Sep 10, 2014

Just read the article and thought they wrote it about me lol .I wish
I had done more research on this and read it before I bought the T5i.
I was having trouble with my 400D . When I turned it on it would fire up but the lens's would occasionally not focus . Sometimes I would have to turn it off and on as many as 6 times before it would work . I do not know why but I think I may need to clean the contacts from the camera to the lens ? Any way I got home from a trip and since I got lucky and made the 400D work the whole time I needed it while on the trip , I should not press my luck and bought the T5i. for the next big event so to speak.

Arkguy1 · Sep 10, 2014

I am just learning about the difference in the resolutions on these cameras. I differed on my calculations for the difference from previous answers to my problems . I get it at
1.34 x 3888 = 5210
1.34 x 2592 = 3473

5210 x 3473 = 18094330 or 18mp ? I am guessing this is correct ?

I also need to learn about the STM lenses . I bought a body only camera as I thought my lenses would be fine for video and the T5i. I did not know that the silent focusing would come into play along with any other differences .
I did take a few short videos with the EF-S 17-55 1:2.8 IS USM , indoors .
The lens's focusing did seem to jump when following my dog run away from me . It hesitated in a blur while focusing when the dog moved about 20 feet away . and I now notice the sound of the lens focusing motor .
My wife who has been playing with video cameras for years compared it to her HD Canon Vixia HF 100 . She was impressed with the quality of the video , other than the sudden refocusing / blurry change as the dog ran away about 20 feet or so it was very clear and sharp ! Almost like real HD TV.

I have not seen a STM lens or it's results as of yet .
Does the same refocusing thing happen when tracking a subject ?
Do you hear the lens motor ? I will be using the video once in a while but not nearly as much as stills .
It is already a pain to have to change back and forth from my 2 favorite lenses( I am taking pics as they happen ) without having to go to 3 lenses at family events etc. ( When playing around with landscapes it is fun ! )
Indoors, in close spaces such as 14 x 20' rooms , I would like to have just one lens for all lol . I guess I am asking for too much but really want to know if there is a great difference in the STM and older pretty good USM lenses for video . IE glass vs focus motor .

Digirame · Sep 10, 2014

I don't have the Canon 400D or T5i (700D) cameras. But I can relate a little to what you are saying. I have a 10mp Olympus E-510 which was similar somewhat to the Canon 400D (from memory if you read the Dpreview reviews). I've compared those 10mp pictures to my 18mp Canon T2i (550D) camera pictures and the greatest difference can be seen when I'm taking these photos under cloudy or rainy conditions. In bright light, where everything is so "perfect" even a camera phone can take great pictures. But using the cameras under difficult conditions is where you should see the biggest difference. That's my guess, with what I would expect without having either camera. You should try it and see. Do you have some samples to share?

MisterPootieCat · Sep 10, 2014

I've been using the Imaging Resource website for years when looking at how new cameras perform. They create what I consider to be some of the best studio shots under controlled conditions out there. Download the RAW files in the links below and open them in DPP, open the tool palette and make sure sharpness is set the same for all of the images, and set the zoom at 100% also.

Using the low ISO image look at the round proportion gauge on the right side of the image to see the improvement in resolution in T5i images. Note the gauge is quite a bit larger in the T5i image with a very noticeable increase in resolution. This should put to rest any concerns about resolution of the 10mp vs 18mp sensor.

Use the high ISO images to compare the improvement in noise performance, and note ISO 3200 isn't even available on the 400D. Look at the red fabric in the pinwheel, the leaf pattern detail is almost always the first to go south. I find the 400D ISO 1600 image has better detail rendition in the red fabric over the T5i ISO 1600 image, go figure.

T5i ISO 100:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-t5i/T5IhSLI00100NR0.CR2.HTM

400D ISO 100:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XTI/XTIhSLI0100.CR2.HTM

T5i ISO 1600:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-t5i/T5IhSLI01600NR0.CR2.HTM

400D ISO 1600:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XTI/XTIhSLI1600.CR2.HTM

Here's the T5i ISO 3200 image at no extra charge:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-t5i/T5IhSLI03200NR0.CR2.HTM

R2D2 · Sep 10, 2014

Rob Bernhard said:
18MP is not almost twice the resolution of 10MP. A sensor has an area: length and height. For every doubling of MP you only get 40% more linear resolution.

The T5i sensor is 5184 x 3456. The 400D sensor is 3888 pixels x 2592 pixels.

The T5i has 33% more resolution of the 400D on the long side and 33% more the resolution of the 400D on the short side.

If you want to double the linear resolution you need to multiple both numbers by 2.

3888 * 2 = 7776

2592 * 2 = 5184

5184 * 7776 = 40MP

A 40MP sensor has twice the resolution of a 10MP sensor.

As others have said, looking at 200% views (in DPP or any other application) is not telling you anything about the images or the image quality. You need to look at the actual output: prints. If you don't print and only post to the web, then your comparison needs to be something other than pure detail. (Dynamic range, the ability to crop, noise levels, etc.).

You may also be interested in this article: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/2011/05/01/why-your-21mp-file-looks-softer-than-your-12mp-image-at-100

+1

In addition, the lens may be part of the limiting factor, as well as technique.

R2

R2D2 · Sep 10, 2014

Arkguy1 said:
I am just learning about the difference in the resolutions on these cameras. I differed on my calculations for the difference from previous answers to my problems . I get it at
1.34 x 3888 = 5210
1.34 x 2592 = 3473

5210 x 3473 = 18094330 or 18mp ? I am guessing this is correct ?

I also need to learn about the STM lenses . I bought a body only camera as I thought my lenses would be fine for video and the T5i. I did not know that the silent focusing would come into play along with any other differences .
I did take a few short videos with the EF-S 17-55 1:2.8 IS USM , indoors .
The lens's focusing did seem to jump when following my dog run away from me . It hesitated in a blur while focusing when the dog moved about 20 feet away . and I now notice the sound of the lens focusing motor .
My wife who has been playing with video cameras for years compared it to her HD Canon Vixia HF 100 . She was impressed with the quality of the video , other than the sudden refocusing / blurry change as the dog ran away about 20 feet or so it was very clear and sharp ! Almost like real HD TV.

I have not seen a STM lens or it's results as of yet .
Does the same refocusing thing happen when tracking a subject ?
Do you hear the lens motor ? I will be using the video once in a while but not nearly as much as stills .
It is already a pain to have to change back and forth from my 2 favorite lenses( I am taking pics as they happen ) without having to go to 3 lenses at family events etc. ( When playing around with landscapes it is fun ! )
Indoors, in close spaces such as 14 x 20' rooms , I would like to have just one lens for all lol . I guess I am asking for too much but really want to know if there is a great difference in the STM and older pretty good USM lenses for video . IE glass vs focus motor .

Well to gain a significant cropping advantage, you would really need to move up to a 70D IMHO. That's been my experience at least (vs the 18 MP sensors). I have posted some full-sized images and some 100% crops in my galleries (click on "original")...

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/loaded_with_talon

Additionally, the 70D's video AF drastically reduces AF hunting, and when paired with an STM lens (I really like the 18-135 STM), focus is silky smooth and virtually silent.

Note: if you are doing any formal testing (and you don't have a remote release), be sure to use the 10-second self timer instead of the 2-second).

Best of luck!

R2

Arkguy1 · Sep 11, 2014

I do not have a place online to post pics as I do not know anything about doing it as of yet.

I do have a couple I think are semi good .

Rob Bernhard · Sep 11, 2014

Arkguy1 said:
I do not have a place online to post pics as I do not know anything about doing it as of yet.

I do have a couple I think are semi good .

Flickr | The best place to be a photographer online.

The nicest place on the internet is here for you: inspiration, community, creativity, art, passion, and a heaping scoop of weirdness await you. Join for free.

www.flickr.com

Free and 1 terabyte of storage. It couldn't be easier.

jvkelley · Sep 11, 2014

Remember a camera is more than just a sensor. The differences in raw image quality between any APS-C Canon sensor are extremely minor.

When you buy a better body, you often get a better metering system, better AF system, better LCD, more frames per second, better jpg processing, and other additional features related to video, the flash system, remote triggering, etc. These are the things that help you get higher quality real-world shots.

So yes, it's normal for two raw images from different cameras with the same size sensor to look about the same in a test, but the differences in the other specs and features are what make the difference in the real world.

photonius · Sep 11, 2014

R2D2 said:
Rob Bernhard said:

18MP is not almost twice the resolution of 10MP. A sensor has an area: length and height. For every doubling of MP you only get 40% more linear resolution.

The T5i sensor is 5184 x 3456. The 400D sensor is 3888 pixels x 2592 pixels.

The T5i has 33% more resolution of the 400D on the long side and 33% more the resolution of the 400D on the short side.

If you want to double the linear resolution you need to multiple both numbers by 2.

3888 * 2 = 7776

2592 * 2 = 5184

5184 * 7776 = 40MP

A 40MP sensor has twice the resolution of a 10MP sensor.

As others have said, looking at 200% views (in DPP or any other application) is not telling you anything about the images or the image quality. You need to look at the actual output: prints. If you don't print and only post to the web, then your comparison needs to be something other than pure detail. (Dynamic range, the ability to crop, noise levels, etc.).

You may also be interested in this article: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/2011/05/01/why-your-21mp-file-looks-softer-than-your-12mp-image-at-100

Click to expand...

+1

In addition, the lens may be part of the limiting factor, as well as technique.

R2

yes, the 70-300 IS, though a good lens, is not excellent at the 300mm. So, it will also limit how much improvement you will get from more pixels. in fact, it will probably not get much better even with a 40mp sensor. You would also need better lenses.

New T5i vs old 400D , pics no better on T5i ?

New member

Senior Member

Veteran Member

New member

Senior Member

Senior Member

New member

New member

New member

New member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

New member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Veteran Member

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts