Use of the term Pro/Professional Photographer in conversations

We get this a lot shooting Sony departing features and from other brand users .. so I consider this a Sony community question... Prefer this not get moved..

I was at an event this weekend. There was a permanent photographer's gallery location on the street where the event happened.

The subject selection of his scenes were excellent. But the first thing I noticed was his print saturation was off the charts. Against the black walls some of the landscapes felt like black light prints!!

My daughter is there with her little Nikon J1, I am there with my A77II. She likes to talk at 11 years and over share.. so she starts talking about her camera. He hands her a flyer and says "Here if you want to get lessons from a REAL Professional Photographer"

In that moment I realized I think that is the first time I heard a paid Pro.. really sell himself as a Real Professional Photographer. Usually I hear it as justification for why one needs a camera or a feature often by those who are not actually Pros. I don't remember the Pros I respect saying this.. a lot.. but hey that's my memory.

He went on start talking about how he teaches people to shoot without Photoshop, he uses filters and from what I can tell shoots JPG and sets his camera to simulate film stocks..

I was polite (commented on the shots I liked.. never mentioned his abuse of saturation) . But my wife got upset and told him, My husband teaches photography and knows all that stuff, [I love my wife! ] [Ya I teach 5 & 6th graders on a volunteer basis ]

I was just wondering what your experience was in this area..

[And he was polite and didn't day anything bad about either cameras. so I will give him that]

This question gets asked all the time and in reality, only the IRS knows for sure whether the photographer is a pro or not.

You've just met Ken Rockwell.

I know a lot of protogs and only one of them is a bit elitist with her nikon gear (funnily enough the only one I helped learn photography while we were at Uni).

Normally I didn't find out they were a protog till someone else told me or my family needed some event covering and they jumped in to say they'd help.

Its simple really, I don't go around telling people my profession (and about my cool expensive gear) but if I feel like it can come in handy somewhere I jump into help out (normal human behaviour lol). That applies to any profession inc. photography.

then it would tell you who is the professional. In the meantime, it's a word that doesn't have much of a foundation.

[No message]

Greetings all! Seems somewhere I heard that Amatures talk gear, Pro's talk money, and Masters talk light. Gave me something to think about. Regards...Art

Nothing wrong with what he did. He's simply trying to drum up business. He had no knowledge of your knowledge or expertise.
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Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels
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Misuse of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.

tbcass said:

Nothing wrong with what he did. He's simply trying to drum up business. He had no knowledge of your knowledge or expertise.
--
Tom

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I would expect him to offer his services while were there. I have no problem with that.

What caused me to pause, was while were standing in his named gallery, having already established he was the owner / photographer.. Rather than Saying "I offer classes if you are interested"

He said "You can learn from a REAL Professional Photographer" Not only came of as extremely redundant, but also that odd feeling you get when people talk about themselves in the 3rd person.

>>Like "Bob Ryan doesn't like you," said Bob Ryan <<

I have taken lessons from "REAL PROFESSIONAL" photographers than not once referred to themselves as such in the hours or training. So this caught my attention.

BTW, he will have more success if he is curious first. When a potential customer for classes walks in with good quality camera (The A77M2 with the 16-50) doesn't look like a Rebel etc. IT would be smarter to engage.. define which market your customer fits into.. then sell them the right class.

I think that he started with remedial talk about camera capability is what set my wife off.. me I just ignored it.. like you said..he was trying to create business.

And I would like to take some more classes to expand my lighting and shooting skill but his garish use of color saturation/vibrancy in his prints he had already disqualified him as someone I wanted to be my mentor. But I felt no reason to be other than polite and try to say something nice about a the prints I did like. He had some cap cloud at sunset shots that seemed with in the range of realistic color and still bright enough to be on his wall.

You were there while I wasn't so you have a better idea of how things went down. In your more detailed description he does come off as impressed by his own importance which would be a big turn off for me.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Misuse of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.

The great Elliott Erwitt, often refers to his greatest images as "snaps" and his "hobby of photography". Henri Cartier-Bresson would get extremely angry whenever he was photographed because he didn't want to be recognized when shooting on the street. He preferred people thought he was "just an old man with a camera".

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Brian Smith
Sony Artisan of Imagery
Brian Smith Pictures

Photography like art is subjective. Your images speaks for yourself and appeal to a percentage of clients/ viewers. I don't think there's a need to promote oneself as a real pro as there's a wide spectrum or what makes a real pro.

eddiewood said:

You've just met Ken Rockwell.

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ROFL! Thanks for the laugh, needed it!

K E Hoffman said:

The subject selection of his scenes were excellent. But the first thing I noticed was his print saturation was off the charts. Against the black walls some of the landscapes felt like black light prints!!

I was polite (commented on the shots I liked.. never mentioned his abuse of saturation)

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Good for you...that was the right approach I think. He has a gallery, he is a pro photographer, and he promotes his work - as the artist, he has the right to display his work how he wishes it to be seen, so if he prefers lots of saturation, or he has found himself successful using that style, good for him...and good for you for having a personal opinion but not using it to unfairly judge someone else for their taste.

K E Hoffman said:

My daughter is there with her little Nikon J1, I am there with my A77II. She likes to talk at 11 years and over share.. so she starts talking about her camera. He hands her a flyer and says "Here if you want to get lessons from a REAL Professional Photographer"

In that moment I realized I think that is the first time I heard a paid Pro.. really sell himself as a Real Professional Photographer. Usually I hear it as justification for why one needs a camera or a feature often by those who are not actually Pros. I don't remember the Pros I respect saying this.. a lot.. but hey that's my memory.

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It's true, I rarely hear 'pros' call themselves such, unless it comes up as a direct response to a question or in discussion about gear or techniques often with other pros. But it does happen. And some people are very self-promotional - they like to pump up their titles and their image as much as possible, and maybe it's gotten them well through life, so again it's all just up to each person's personality type and how they want to present themselves to the world.

However, I'd also throw in another consideration - having not been there, I can't know his intent in that statement, nor hear the inflection in his voice to know how it was meant, but is it possible he was only saying that to a child, and likely wouldn't have promoted himself quite so boldly to an adult? I can see that type of statement being said to a kid, not meant as much as a blatant promotion of one's status or rank, but as a way of impressing or connecting to a child who seems interested in what you do (sort of like a fireman asking a child if they want to see a real firetruck, or a policeman telling a child that they are a real cop). ie: if he thought she might aspire to someday become a photographer, and he, proud in his own profession, was connecting with her in that way. Without having been there, it's hard to say - I think if a 'pro' photographer ever said such a thing to me, I'd think them a bit egotistical, awkwardly unaware, and possibly a bit socially inept, but still probably wouldn't make any big deal out of it and would just take the card with a friendly smile...after all, I am in his gallery, and he's not chasing me down a random street to promote himself.

K E Hoffman said:

He went on start talking about how he teaches people to shoot without Photoshop, he uses filters and from what I can tell shoots JPG and sets his camera to simulate film stocks..

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All more proof to me that he's just trying to generate business, and get more income flowing from his job. Nothing wrong with that in your own 'store'. And whatever shooting methods or processing choices he makes, if it works for him, makes him happy, or gives him success, kudos to him.

Status anxiety: A lot of people in the photo world seem to have it.

Gear heads suffer from it a lot.

Real professionals really couldn't give a stuff about titles - at least the ones with real talent don't.

Personally, as someone who works in publishing and knows a lot of people who make their living from photography, I think the amount of status anxiety they show and their obsession with the "right brand of gear" is usually inversely related to their skill as a photographer.

Now that's the right attitude to have, Brian!

You don't have a choice that fits, so here's my answer.

All the guys/men or girls/women clocking in and trying to make a living with a camera that I have talked to in the real world don't mention that they are professional photographers. It's kind of understood. Maybe I only attract mature people being a little bit on the older side myself.

Only people I have noted mentioning they are pros are people that post on DPReview and want others to know that they make a living with a camera. This in my opinion means at least they have some experience.

This is the check box I would check. A professional photographer is just another guy or gal with a camera to me. Some of them are friendly people that are interesting to talk to, some not so much.

topstuff said:

Status anxiety: A lot of people in the photo world seem to have it.

Gear heads suffer from it a lot.

Real professionals really couldn't give a stuff about titles - at least the ones with real talent don't.

Personally, as someone who works in publishing and knows a lot of people who make their living from photography, I think the amount of status anxiety they show and their obsession with the "right brand of gear" is usually inversely related to their skill as a photographer.

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Maybe marketing maybe insecurity, I do not like the over saturation but many people buying prints do. I find it strange that he talks about teaching how to photograph without Photoshop while standing in a gallery surrounded by over saturated images.