E1 - Way Too Expensive

Peter Wardley-Repen said:

Bear in mind, everyone, that the E-1 is a pro camera and the EOS
10D and D100 aren't. The competition is the Nikon D1 and the Canon
EOS-1D/Ds, whose prices make much fairer comparisons.

Click to expand...

Can you please explain to me why E1 is pro and 10D and D100 not?

Can it be the superior assoccories? No.
Can it be the superior image quality? Don't know.
Can it be the superior quality? Don't know.
Can it be the superior usage? Don't know.

So - what is it?

Roland

David Blehar said:

Not bad though, a 600 mm 2.8. Pretty long and fast.

Click to expand...

hehe here we go again.

It is a 300 mm F2.8 with a smaller image circle. Therefore
it is a simpler lens than a 35mm 300 mm F2.8. Therefore
it should be cheaper and lighter than an ordinary 300 mm F2.8.
It is neither which is a great surprise.

It is absolutely not a 600 mm F2.8. It has the same FOV
as a 600 mm lens for 35 mm cameras, thats all folks. But
it is very misleading calling it a 600 mm F2.8.

Lenses and cameras do not scale down without losses.
You lose resolution and/or sensitivity.

they didnt announce any prices so relax

Howie Mudge said:

I've been waiting like everyone to see the specs and what exactly
comes with the E1. Camera looks nice, lens and accessories look
great but over $2,000 way too expensive for me to even consider the
E1. This is Olympus's first venture into what I consider the
professional digital SLR market (I know the E10, E20 are great
cameras) but they really needed to compete with the Canon D10, Fuji
S2, and Nikon D100 on price. Here in the UK it's probably going to
cost me around £2000 all being relevant and even for all the
benefits of the new system, it's not the one for me. I will
probably buy the Canon 10D which the body will cost me £1150 and
then I can spend £850 on some quality Canon lenses. As I am quite
used to Canon SLR's, lens size is not an issue for me and the extra
1.3mp gives me a lot more options for cropping.

As a serious amature I have taken everything into consideration.
For me £ for £ personally, the D10 is a better option. I know this
won't be relevant for everyone and I am sure people who buy the E1
will be very happy with their purchases.

Just my thoughts,

Howie

Click to expand...

--
beam me up scotty

im giving it all shes got captain

I think the E-1 does not have a specific area, but rather it is covering many segments of different sectors. It is not exactly a D1h/1D, and not exactly a 10D/D100/S2. And it is not exactly somewhere in-between either.

Peter Wardley-Repen said:

That said, i would expect the price to have dropped by shipping
time anyway, but not by as much as people are expecting.

Peter W-R

Howie Mudge said:

I've been waiting like everyone to see the specs and what exactly
comes with the E1. Camera looks nice, lens and accessories look
great but over $2,000 way too expensive for me to even consider the
E1. This is Olympus's first venture into what I consider the
professional digital SLR market (I know the E10, E20 are great
cameras) but they really needed to compete with the Canon D10, Fuji
S2, and Nikon D100 on price. Here in the UK it's probably going to
cost me around £2000 all being relevant and even for all the
benefits of the new system, it's not the one for me. I will
probably buy the Canon 10D which the body will cost me £1150 and
then I can spend £850 on some quality Canon lenses. As I am quite
used to Canon SLR's, lens size is not an issue for me and the extra
1.3mp gives me a lot more options for cropping.

As a serious amature I have taken everything into consideration.
For me £ for £ personally, the D10 is a better option. I know this
won't be relevant for everyone and I am sure people who buy the E1
will be very happy with their purchases.

Just my thoughts,

Howie

Click to expand...

--
Peter Wardley-Repen

Click to expand...

Olympus still want to sell some E-20N. If the price for E-1 sets to $1200 for now, how many more E-20N can they sell at the current price?

Percy

Howie Mudge said:

I've been waiting like everyone to see the specs and what exactly
comes with the E1. Camera looks nice, lens and accessories look
great but over $2,000 way too expensive for me to even consider the
E1. This is Olympus's first venture into what I consider the
professional digital SLR market (I know the E10, E20 are great
cameras) but they really needed to compete with the Canon D10, Fuji
S2, and Nikon D100 on price. Here in the UK it's probably going to
cost me around £2000 all being relevant and even for all the
benefits of the new system, it's not the one for me. I will
probably buy the Canon 10D which the body will cost me £1150 and
then I can spend £850 on some quality Canon lenses. As I am quite
used to Canon SLR's, lens size is not an issue for me and the extra
1.3mp gives me a lot more options for cropping.

As a serious amature I have taken everything into consideration.
For me £ for £ personally, the D10 is a better option. I know this
won't be relevant for everyone and I am sure people who buy the E1
will be very happy with their purchases.

Just my thoughts,

Howie

Click to expand...

E1 is unusable at $1200. As a minimum you have to add a lens (ZDSL only), and possibly a flash. And it is not currently available for sale.

percy said:

Percy

Howie Mudge said:

I've been waiting like everyone to see the specs and what exactly
comes with the E1. Camera looks nice, lens and accessories look
great but over $2,000 way too expensive for me to even consider the
E1. This is Olympus's first venture into what I consider the
professional digital SLR market (I know the E10, E20 are great
cameras) but they really needed to compete with the Canon D10, Fuji
S2, and Nikon D100 on price. Here in the UK it's probably going to
cost me around £2000 all being relevant and even for all the
benefits of the new system, it's not the one for me. I will
probably buy the Canon 10D which the body will cost me £1150 and
then I can spend £850 on some quality Canon lenses. As I am quite
used to Canon SLR's, lens size is not an issue for me and the extra
1.3mp gives me a lot more options for cropping.

As a serious amature I have taken everything into consideration.
For me £ for £ personally, the D10 is a better option. I know this
won't be relevant for everyone and I am sure people who buy the E1
will be very happy with their purchases.

Just my thoughts,

Howie

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

should drop in price imho

digital_ray_of_light said:

percy said:

Percy

Howie Mudge said:

I've been waiting like everyone to see the specs and what exactly
comes with the E1. Camera looks nice, lens and accessories look
great but over $2,000 way too expensive for me to even consider the
E1. This is Olympus's first venture into what I consider the
professional digital SLR market (I know the E10, E20 are great
cameras) but they really needed to compete with the Canon D10, Fuji
S2, and Nikon D100 on price. Here in the UK it's probably going to
cost me around £2000 all being relevant and even for all the
benefits of the new system, it's not the one for me. I will
probably buy the Canon 10D which the body will cost me £1150 and
then I can spend £850 on some quality Canon lenses. As I am quite
used to Canon SLR's, lens size is not an issue for me and the extra
1.3mp gives me a lot more options for cropping.

As a serious amature I have taken everything into consideration.
For me £ for £ personally, the D10 is a better option. I know this
won't be relevant for everyone and I am sure people who buy the E1
will be very happy with their purchases.

Just my thoughts,

Howie

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
beam me up scotty

im giving it all shes got captain

No your right they didn't put any prices out but I am pretty sure Phil mentioned something around the $2100 as MSP. You can guarenttee here in the UK that's going to be £2000 and I don't feel if it comes in anywhere near that price, the E1 will be worth it. Not forgetting that by October when it is presumed to be released, the D10 will be even cheaper. It's in the same category as the D10, D100 and S2 Pro, with the less mp has to really produce a much cheaper price IMHO. It's no where near the same standard as the Canon EOS 1D or the Nikon D1X so the competition are the cameras I have already mentioned. Only four lenses and sooooo expensive (again rumour of prices) makes this a camera that I will rule out unless the body is at least 20% cheaper than the D10.

Pro's already have their lenses and lets face it, they are not going to drop all their expensive Canon or Nikon lenses to use a new untried body and lens system. So Olympus's market is the Prosumer. The punter who wants a digital SLR and does not own any Canon or Nikon lenses. If the reports are true and this camera system is released here in the UK for £2000 + then for the same price I get a Canon D10, 15-30mm Sigma, Canon 50mm 1.8 Mk II, Canon 28-135mm IS USM lens and I would still have change out of £2000. I would only get the Olympus body for that price. I do not see the E1 offering me any more than what the D10 can produce. Bring the E1 body at sub £1000 and then it becomes interesting. Bring it in over £1500 and they lose the majority of the market.

jk said:

they didnt announce any prices so relax

Click to expand...

If this camera really won't ship till October, then Olympus can say whatever price they want now. A major principle in marketing is to "not canabalize your own markets". Right now an E20 still looks good at it's price. We won't see any price drops till it's almost released.

The price is a "protect your market" and announce something soon marketing gig. It might well be very competitive to the 10d by the time it comes out.

If it isn't cheaper then the laws of supply and demand will make it cheaper quick. One problem they will have compared to the 10D is that ccd sensor in the E1 probably costs a lot more to produce than the cmos sensor in the 10D.

It should have a lot lower noise than the E10 did. They dynamic range issues will be very interesting. Does Phil test for dynamic range? It would be a nice addition to the reviews.

I have the D60 and 1Ds and my son uses my E10. He tried borrowing my D60 but actually prefers the E10. The E1 would make a perfect stepping up camera for him (he is married and 22). So if they can get their price down a bit and the quality is good, then they might sell some to their existing base.

Now to argue with myself, the problem with the above is that their existing base has no "base" of lenses that can be used on this. This camera establishes a new "base" system with which to add stuff to.

The other problem is a perception thing. With 8mp consumer PS cameras in the wings, how will a 5mp camera fly in this market come fall? Does anyone think that the 10D and that price range of camera is going to stay at 6mp? I wouldn't be surprised to see some upgrade within 12 months to the 10d that will be a 8mp camera with a 1.3 crop factor for the same price point. The costs of scale are lowering costs of production and should easily allow that from both Nikon and Canon within 12 months. Of course Olympus could increase the resolution too.

So,

1. lower the price about a grand
2. up the MP to about 8

then party cause they'll sell a bunch of them!

John Mason said:

If this camera really won't ship till October, then Olympus can say
whatever price they want now. A major principle in marketing is to
"not canabalize your own markets". Right now an E20 still looks
good at it's price. We won't see any price drops till it's almost
released.

The price is a "protect your market" and announce something soon
marketing gig. It might well be very competitive to the 10d by the
time it comes out.

Click to expand...

You have some very good points, John. Of course Olympus knows how fast prices are changing in this business. They will not announce the official MSRP price yet. And is the $2200 so far from the 10D $2000 MSRP? The 10D is selling for 75% of that price, so we could hope for $1650 for the E-1. Pretty close what people were guessing here before yesterday.

Member said:

If it isn't cheaper then the laws of supply and demand will make it
cheaper quick. One problem they will have compared to the 10D is
that ccd sensor in the E1 probably costs a lot more to produce than
the cmos sensor in the 10D.

It should have a lot lower noise than the E10 did. They dynamic
range issues will be very interesting. Does Phil test for dynamic
range? It would be a nice addition to the reviews.

Click to expand...

Well, if the infamous samurai image is something to go by, we will see quite an improvement in sharpness, details and color.

Member said:

I have the D60 and 1Ds and my son uses my E10. He tried borrowing
my D60 but actually prefers the E10. The E1 would make a perfect
stepping up camera for him (he is married and 22). So if they can

Click to expand...

That is another thing to keep in mind. Different people like different cameras (or cars, or operating systems...). Modern digital SLR are complex beasts, the days of fstop and shutter dials only operation are gone. What good is the best camera in the world if you hate using it. Cameras are creative tools, to get the best out of them, you have to like them. (Ok, I'm starting to sound philosophical)

Member said:

get their price down a bit and the quality is good, then they might
sell some to their existing base.

Now to argue with myself, the problem with the above is that their
existing base has no "base" of lenses that can be used on this.
This camera establishes a new "base" system with which to add stuff
to.

The other problem is a perception thing. With 8mp consumer PS
cameras in the wings, how will a 5mp camera fly in this market come
fall? Does anyone think that the 10D and that price range of
camera is going to stay at 6mp? I wouldn't be surprised to see
some upgrade within 12 months to the 10d that will be a 8mp camera
with a 1.3 crop factor for the same price point. The costs of

Click to expand...

I think the MP race is starting to slow down. Even Medium format photographers argue that the 1Ds is "good enough". The E-1 is already half way there. And the hard part is over, the E-2 should basically be bigger sensor and more speed. Olympus doesn't need to design a new camera from scratch.

Member said:

scale are lowering costs of production and should easily allow that
from both Nikon and Canon within 12 months. Of course Olympus
could increase the resolution too.

So,

1. lower the price about a grand
2. up the MP to about 8

then party cause they'll sell a bunch of them!

Click to expand...

I wonder how long it took Canon to establish a good base for the EOS system? 2 years? 3?

J.
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/

Jón Ragnarsson said:

John Mason said:

If this camera really won't ship till October, then Olympus can say
whatever price they want now. A major principle in marketing is to
"not canabalize your own markets". Right now an E20 still looks
good at it's price. We won't see any price drops till it's almost
released.

The price is a "protect your market" and announce something soon
marketing gig. It might well be very competitive to the 10d by the
time it comes out.

Click to expand...

You have some very good points, John. Of course Olympus knows how
fast prices are changing in this business. They will not announce
the official MSRP price yet. And is the $2200 so far from the 10D
$2000 MSRP? The 10D is selling for 75% of that price, so we could
hope for $1650 for the E-1. Pretty close what people were guessing
here before yesterday

Click to expand...

E1 $1650 by October and I would say Canon D10 $1100 by October. Not enough in the E1 to pay more IMHO.

Member said:

Member said:

If it isn't cheaper then the laws of supply and demand will make it
cheaper quick. One problem they will have compared to the 10D is
that ccd sensor in the E1 probably costs a lot more to produce than
the cmos sensor in the 10D.

It should have a lot lower noise than the E10 did. They dynamic
range issues will be very interesting. Does Phil test for dynamic
range? It would be a nice addition to the reviews.

Click to expand...

Well, if the infamous samurai image is something to go by, we will
see quite an improvement in sharpness, details and color.

Click to expand...

I think all Digital SLR's produce excellent sharp images. Any 5mp + camera should produce the detail and colour is down to personal taste. I personally like the vibrant colour of the Sony F717 for example.

Member said:

Member said:

I have the D60 and 1Ds and my son uses my E10. He tried borrowing
my D60 but actually prefers the E10. The E1 would make a perfect
stepping up camera for him (he is married and 22). So if they can

Click to expand...

That is another thing to keep in mind. Different people like
different cameras (or cars, or operating systems...). Modern
digital SLR are complex beasts, the days of fstop and shutter dials
only operation are gone. What good is the best camera in the world
if you hate using it. Cameras are creative tools, to get the best
out of them, you have to like them. (Ok, I'm starting to sound
philosophical)

Member said:

get their price down a bit and the quality is good, then they might
sell some to their existing base.

Now to argue with myself, the problem with the above is that their
existing base has no "base" of lenses that can be used on this.
This camera establishes a new "base" system with which to add stuff
to.

The other problem is a perception thing. With 8mp consumer PS
cameras in the wings, how will a 5mp camera fly in this market come
fall? Does anyone think that the 10D and that price range of
camera is going to stay at 6mp? I wouldn't be surprised to see
some upgrade within 12 months to the 10d that will be a 8mp camera
with a 1.3 crop factor for the same price point. The costs of

Click to expand...

I think the MP race is starting to slow down. Even Medium format
photographers argue that the 1Ds is "good enough". The E-1 is
already half way there. And the hard part is over, the E-2 should
basically be bigger sensor and more speed. Olympus doesn't need to
design a new camera from scratch.

Click to expand...

This is my problem. We are alread talking about the E2 and this is the camera I feel Olympus should be releasing now. The E1 even with all it's new technology is already out of spec even before it's released. By october I can see Canon releasing the D3, Nikon will no doubt have something in the pipeline and also Fuji. I am sure these camera's will be even higher res in MP, better dynamic range, lower noise and probably the same price as an E1.

Member said:

Member said:

scale are lowering costs of production and should easily allow that
from both Nikon and Canon within 12 months. Of course Olympus
could increase the resolution too.

So,

1. lower the price about a grand
2. up the MP to about 8

then party cause they'll sell a bunch of them!

Click to expand...

I wonder how long it took Canon to establish a good base for the
EOS system? 2 years? 3?

Click to expand...

2-3 years is probably correct so this means Canon have been in the digital SLR market 2-3 years longer than Olympus. Olympus are playing catch up and with the E1 I feel it should have been the E2. Then people would have taken more notice of the new technology. Already in this forum people are pretty depressed with the resolution and also possible price range. Customers are always right and I just hope Olympus realise this.

Member said:

http://jonr.beecee.org/

Click to expand...

Howie Mudge said:

Jón Ragnarsson said:

John Mason wrote:

Click to expand...

E1 $1650 by October and I would say Canon D10 $1100 by October.
Not enough in the E1 to pay more IMHO.

Click to expand...

I doubt the 10D price is going to fall that fast. According to the Nikkei article, Canon cannot keep up with demand at 30k bodies per month.

IF is key....IF the price is higher than or around the same price as the 10d oly will not sell their 90,000 units. $854 as stated by some seems more reasonable.

The beauty of digital photography is that , in general, consumers want more megapixels and lower prices. IF Oly offers fewer megapixals at a higher cost, I don't think they'll sell many.

I certainly won't buy one. I'll stay with my d60 until someone comes up with a significantly better one less than $2000.

Paul

Honda said:

What is Olympus thinking????

Howie Mudge said:

I've been waiting like everyone to see the specs and what exactly
comes with the E1. Camera looks nice, lens and accessories look
great but over $2,000 way too expensive for me to even consider the
E1. This is Olympus's first venture into what I consider the
professional digital SLR market (I know the E10, E20 are great
cameras) but they really needed to compete with the Canon D10, Fuji
S2, and Nikon D100 on price. Here in the UK it's probably going to
cost me around £2000 all being relevant and even for all the
benefits of the new system, it's not the one for me. I will
probably buy the Canon 10D which the body will cost me £1150 and
then I can spend £850 on some quality Canon lenses. As I am quite
used to Canon SLR's, lens size is not an issue for me and the extra
1.3mp gives me a lot more options for cropping.

As a serious amature I have taken everything into consideration.
For me £ for £ personally, the D10 is a better option. I know this
won't be relevant for everyone and I am sure people who buy the E1
will be very happy with their purchases.

Just my thoughts,

Howie

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

...as promised, then it is right next to 10D.

Dynamic range is my biggest problem with digital. I am sick of blown out skies and black cliffs. Just take a look:





Ok, this is maybe a extreme example, but I am constantly fighting this. I have started to use the "over- and underexpose, and then combine in photoshop" method. So far, it have worked, but I can't use it everywhere.
J.