lickity split
Veteran Member
Perhaps you were trying to be funny. Hardy Har Har
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/dep_projects/cp_north_river_plant.shtml
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Great news for those who like to shop at B&H, view the North River, walk the High Line.
- Thread starter Corkcampbell
- Start date
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/dep_projects/cp_north_river_plant.shtml
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Bobo Hodls
Veteran Member
I wasn't 'egging' you on, I was just trying to be a bit humorous about it all. I'd part with a friendly, "lighten up", but I'm not sure that would be taken in the spirit intended. After all, all we're talking about is a name of a location, it's not like someone is talking smack about NY'ers in general (well, they might now, after reading through this tirade).When people spread misinformation about your hometown and persist in doing so then it deserves a response. Your doing it your self with your final comment. That's quite a "bit of something, or egging on, "for someone criticizing others for making "a mountain out of this molehill?It takes quite a bit of something or other to make a mountain out of this molehill, as well.
I noticed on a map a few weeks ago the lower Hudson had a "North River" label. Didn't dwell on it much, and thought the reminder through this topic very interesting. Just as is the roots of locations that were named by the Dutch might be found to be interesting.
Maybe we'll cross paths along the shores of the North River one day, and can discuss it further.
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...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
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"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
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Live and learn. I've lived all 70 years of my life in NYC and I never heard the term North River. The East River runs into the Harlem River which runs into the Hudson River at the northern tip of Manhattan. North of that I've always heard called the Hudson River. Maybe the term North River is used in the counties north of the city. My wife comes from upstate, and I have nieces and nephews who went to school in Rockland and Westchester counties just north of the city. I'll ask them if they've ever heard the term.
Corkcampbell
Veteran Member
Ha ha. Coincidentally, it's 5:00 AM where I am, and I was emptying a box of books in an effort to straighten up my place quickly because I was told last night that an old girlfriend will visit. I moved a year ago and have managed to avoid unpacking many things for all these months...
The North River is the part of the Hudson between Manhattan and New Jersey.
Anyway, I ran across my old 1990s copy of the Blue Guide to NYC, checked it out, and then went to the Wikipedia article on the North River and read through many of the references. I just saw your reply when I was preparing to reply to Bob Tullis, who seems to have an interest in trivia, so check for my reply to him in a few minutes if you like obscure facts.
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"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
The North River is the part of the Hudson between Manhattan and New Jersey.
Anyway, I ran across my old 1990s copy of the Blue Guide to NYC, checked it out, and then went to the Wikipedia article on the North River and read through many of the references. I just saw your reply when I was preparing to reply to Bob Tullis, who seems to have an interest in trivia, so check for my reply to him in a few minutes if you like obscure facts.
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"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
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Corkcampbell
Veteran Member
Hey Bob,
Since you seem to be interested, I'll share with you my last 30 minutes or so. I just learned of a surprise visit from an girlfriend so I'm up at 4:00AM (5:00 now) unpacking and putting away things from a move a year ago...yeah, I know...procrastination is evil. Anyway, I came across my old early 90s Blue Guide to NYC, which is the last of the really big, detailed editions of that guide in which they will have pages in small print on the history of obscure buildings. Far, far better than the more recent Blue Guides and the current AIA NYC guide. Get a used one if you're interest in this stuff. I love architectural history so I read these books just for fun, just as I eagerly await "Streetscapes" every Friday in the NYT. The North River is mentioned.
Then, I went to the Wikipedia article referenced by others and went through some of the references. That was fun - all kinds of different stories. My short-term memory is not perfect, but one seemed to say that the Dutch called it the North River to avoid confusion with the Delaware River. Another said that, ironically, Henry Hudson named it the North River. There was an exchange of letters or articles a hundred years ago (300th anniversary of HH's discovery) about whether to extend the name of the Hudson River to the Atlantic to honor Hudson, and whether the northern boundary of NYC was also the dividing line between the North and Hudson rivers. The funniest one is the travel article (I think) from 2002 in which a schooner captain, apparently giving a tour, was asked why he called it the North River and his answer was something like: Because you take the North River to go north, and the East River to go the other way. Hilarious.
I have been living in China for over a decade reading a lot of history and now just spent my first year in Korea - returning to China to visit my old university (job) and then to video some things in North Korea next week. So, I have been studying the history and culture of those two nations (or is it three nations?) in preparation for when I will return to the US next year. So, I am really surprised to find myself reading up on NYC history today...an enjoyable diversion!
Since you seem to be interested, I'll share with you my last 30 minutes or so. I just learned of a surprise visit from an girlfriend so I'm up at 4:00AM (5:00 now) unpacking and putting away things from a move a year ago...yeah, I know...procrastination is evil. Anyway, I came across my old early 90s Blue Guide to NYC, which is the last of the really big, detailed editions of that guide in which they will have pages in small print on the history of obscure buildings. Far, far better than the more recent Blue Guides and the current AIA NYC guide. Get a used one if you're interest in this stuff. I love architectural history so I read these books just for fun, just as I eagerly await "Streetscapes" every Friday in the NYT. The North River is mentioned.
Then, I went to the Wikipedia article referenced by others and went through some of the references. That was fun - all kinds of different stories. My short-term memory is not perfect, but one seemed to say that the Dutch called it the North River to avoid confusion with the Delaware River. Another said that, ironically, Henry Hudson named it the North River. There was an exchange of letters or articles a hundred years ago (300th anniversary of HH's discovery) about whether to extend the name of the Hudson River to the Atlantic to honor Hudson, and whether the northern boundary of NYC was also the dividing line between the North and Hudson rivers. The funniest one is the travel article (I think) from 2002 in which a schooner captain, apparently giving a tour, was asked why he called it the North River and his answer was something like: Because you take the North River to go north, and the East River to go the other way. Hilarious.
I have been living in China for over a decade reading a lot of history and now just spent my first year in Korea - returning to China to visit my old university (job) and then to video some things in North Korea next week. So, I have been studying the history and culture of those two nations (or is it three nations?) in preparation for when I will return to the US next year. So, I am really surprised to find myself reading up on NYC history today...an enjoyable diversion!
Bobo Hodls
Veteran Member
If that's true, I must be Lucifer.
Thanks. In a few hours a few of us will be at the northern end of the North River. I'll shout your regards across it.
Corkcampbell
Veteran Member
no text
As the New Yorker who said that we have an East River, a Hudson River, and a Harlem River, but no North River, I'm happy to learn about the North River. I'm always glad to learn more about my city. What I don't understand is what the argument is about. New York has a long rich history and I love learning about it.
As for the cost of the High Line, it has proven to be a great investment as property values around it have gone up substantially. In fact some even believe that property owners were the force pushing for the High Line. Personally, I live in one of the outer boroughs of NYC and I wish some of that money would come to the other boroughs.
As for the cost of the High Line, it has proven to be a great investment as property values around it have gone up substantially. In fact some even believe that property owners were the force pushing for the High Line. Personally, I live in one of the outer boroughs of NYC and I wish some of that money would come to the other boroughs.
Like others, I was born and raised in NYC, and lived there for the first 30 years of my life, and I have never heard the term "North River" used for the southernmost part of the Hudson River.mgd43: "Are you shuuuure"....are you SHUUURE...?" From the courtroom scene in "My Cousin Vinny."
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"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
I am not doubting it was once used, but since it is clearly archaic, it was a confusing term to use in your OP title. Merely proving it was once used and finding it in tiny print on a map doesn't do much to reduce the confusion here.
Further.... looking at your map, this is NO WHERE near the B&H store.... which is much further south. It would be a pretty serious "walk" from 34th Street to 80th Street where the map shows "North River" in tiny letters.
If your goal was to communicate, then you failed by using an archaic and confusing term for the Hudson River. If your goal was to prove a point, then perhaps you succeeded.
I prefer clear communications.
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Marty
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I agree... It seems that the people have voted and many, many people really love the High Line. It brings in a lot of folks and has to be good for the economy. It's a unique thing in that it recycles and old feature (the rail line) and provides some unique views. I really think that they did it right. I could compare it to the Inner Harbor in Baltimore (which is where I'm from... or a suburb really) and that area to me seems a little too much like some sort of mall.... too corporate feeling and from what I hear city natives don't really love it. It's really a tourist stop and little else. The High Line is a lot more beautifully designed, classier and seems to bring natives as well as the tourist crowd. I don't really see what kind of more traditional park would have provided the same kind of features as the High Line...
Bobo Hodls
Veteran Member
It's a unique and interesting use of the abandoned line, IMO. The worst I have to say about it is it attracts too many people [g]. I'm sure there are local controversies and such (like the best of the old neighborhood being pushed out) but for better or worse is there anything else like it as far as tourist curiosities go?
Corkcampbell
Veteran Member
Hmmmm....interesting....you have no interest in history? Perhaps you should read the other replies and references, which explain the length of the North River. And, I didn't find the map; I just used it to show another poster, who has enjoyed the trivia. If you spent 30 years in the city, you apparently didn't spend much time learning about it, and perhaps should be a little embarrassed as well as appreciate learning something new. History is fun.
So, I guess you never, never say "6th Avenue"...?
Ever been to the original Penn Station? Perhaps you could comment on your knowledge of that. I remember it. How do you feel about the Singer Building being torn down? Remember that? Do you even remember the Singer Building? I do...it was pretty cool.
Anyway, forget this; why don't you give us your opinion on the High Line?
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"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
So, I guess you never, never say "6th Avenue"...?
Ever been to the original Penn Station? Perhaps you could comment on your knowledge of that. I remember it. How do you feel about the Singer Building being torn down? Remember that? Do you even remember the Singer Building? I do...it was pretty cool.
Anyway, forget this; why don't you give us your opinion on the High Line?
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"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
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Corkcampbell
Veteran Member
The only thing that didn't impress me about the park - and keep in mind that I haven't been there for a year - is that big barn of a food court that had a few cheesy stands and serving bars. Perhaps that was temporary and has been improved, or perhaps people like it. I did notice that it accommodated groups, such as school groups, and had enough space to let them be separate.
The times I've been there it hasn't been crowded, but I may have been there on weekdays, although I know one, probably the last time, was on a Sunday because I had shopped shortly earlier at B&H.
The times I've been there it hasn't been crowded, but I may have been there on weekdays, although I know one, probably the last time, was on a Sunday because I had shopped shortly earlier at B&H.
Yes, history is fun. But being obstinate about using archaic names for places only makes you look silly and pretentious. No doubt, that part of the Hudson was called the "North River" back when everything north of 34th street was a wilderness. Doesn't it seem odd today to call the southern most portion of the Hudson River "the North River?"
Here's a "current map" of New Amsterdam for your enjoyment:
If we were living in 1660, then you would be correct, rather than merely being arrogant.
God forbid! It is "Avenue of the Americas"
It was a real tragedy when the Singer Building was demolished in the 1960's.
This building was a beautiful representation of the Beaux-Art school of architecture. It was briefly the tallest building in the world, at 612 feet and 47 stories. Unfortunately it was never designated as a landmark, and after it was acquired by U.S. Steel they demolished it to make way for buildings that were "straight up" rather than set back.
The problem was the tower portion wasn't very large being only 4,200 SF per floor as opposed to 37,000 SF per floor for the base. This meant "too much space was wasted" that could have be rented!
While it might enhance the property values around it, and while it might be nice to take a stroll on a greenway twenty feet in the air, the truth is that it is butt ugly from the ground. And it keeps the street in perpetual shadows.
I say... tear it down.
I'm sure others will disagree, and since it's their money being wasted and not mine, the eyesore will remain there forever.
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Marty
The Incredible Hoke
Leading Member
Corkcampbell
Veteran Member
Thanks, nice to know that you like the Singer Building. I always remember it as part of the skyline, especially if viewed from the water. but I don't remember ever being inside. I heard it has a great interior, but I'm sure it was dirty and unappreciated at that time, as were a lot of places such as Grand Central (which I remember from when I was young as being filthy and dangerous). Also, I suspect it (Singer) looked old as soon as it was built (after the tower was added) compared the Woolworth, etc.
I only mentioned Six Avenue because I never heard anyone (except TV people, etc.) call it Avenue of the Americas. I don't know what they call it on maps.
I've given this a lot of thought since this thread began and I probably picked up North River from my dad and his marine friends who was there a few months a year due to Navy work when I was young, which is why I was here a few months every year for a while. He loved smaller boats and would get them from somewhere and go out on the waters around the city - I remember him dragging me to a couple of Power Squadron classes, or whatever they were called. He had to go to Washington sometimes (or sent me to visit an Aunt in Philly) which is why I remember Penn Station - but opposite of the Singer, I only remember the inside, the trains, staircases, stairs to the tracks, high ceilings with sun coming through, etc., I have no recollection of the exterior. Although that below-ground area is still there, it's hard to connect the two after they did added the Mad Men design when the "new" station was built (which it actually wasn't). The only redeeming aspect of it is the Taco Bell, ha ha.
Take it easy!
I only mentioned Six Avenue because I never heard anyone (except TV people, etc.) call it Avenue of the Americas. I don't know what they call it on maps.
I've given this a lot of thought since this thread began and I probably picked up North River from my dad and his marine friends who was there a few months a year due to Navy work when I was young, which is why I was here a few months every year for a while. He loved smaller boats and would get them from somewhere and go out on the waters around the city - I remember him dragging me to a couple of Power Squadron classes, or whatever they were called. He had to go to Washington sometimes (or sent me to visit an Aunt in Philly) which is why I remember Penn Station - but opposite of the Singer, I only remember the inside, the trains, staircases, stairs to the tracks, high ceilings with sun coming through, etc., I have no recollection of the exterior. Although that below-ground area is still there, it's hard to connect the two after they did added the Mad Men design when the "new" station was built (which it actually wasn't). The only redeeming aspect of it is the Taco Bell, ha ha.
Take it easy!
Could the money have been better spent? Maybe. We can sure use it in the other boroughs. But it would have cost a fortune to tear it down, so maybe a park is a good idea. At least lots of people use it. We have beautiful parks in Staten Island, but few people use them relative to our population.
The Incredible Hoke
Leading Member
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a gorgeous park and we visit it often. Between that and the revitalization of Brooklyn Bridge Park, we've gained some beautiful park real estate.
I've always meant to go visit the ship graveyard in Staten Island. Need to get there!
Once you figure in the costs that it would take to tear the thing down it might actually be a pretty good bargain.
Incidentally, the few times that I've been there it's been busy but not too busy... Still with plenty of room to move around. I could see that with the way that it is - contained, that it could be pretty awful when it gets really busy though. There certainly did seem to be a lot of tourists there, but to me that was pretty cool... folks that seemed to be from all points of the glove speaking in all sorts of different languages. It's one of those tourist trap type places that seems pretty worthy to me... unlike say Time Square or Disneyland. I can happy miss most places like that when I travel... The most interesting places are more often than not, not as well hyped.
I don't get into Manhattan very often any more, but when I want to go to a park, you can't beat Central Park.
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