Samyang 12mm: Software for lens correction?

AHM · Sep 4, 2014

I'm thinking of buying the Samyang 12mm F/2. I'm not a sophisticated photographer, so there are some things that I need to figure out first to see if it's not too complicated for me. It is manual focus only. I think I can handle that, even for non-stationary subjects: at 12mm the DoF is large that focusing is not critical, and anyway MF on A6000 is not that hard with focus peaking. Am I right in this?

But the lens, from what I read, has some distortion: chromatic aberration, vignetting, and a little barrel distortion. Clearly, the camera will not correct for this (as there is no electronic connection to the lens). Is there some software where I can batch process to correct this? I usually just use out-of-camera JPEG, but I could do raw. However, I don't want to spend $10/month to subscribe to LR; it would have to be free or cheap software. Also, since the camera does not record the aperture, perhaps batch processing is not even possible (vignetting at least depends on aperture). I'm not really interested in having to fiddle with each individual image. Perhaps I'm unrealistic?

wb2trf · Sep 5, 2014

AHM said:
I'm thinking of buying the Samyang 12mm F/2. I'm not a sophisticated photographer, so there are some things that I need to figure out first to see if it's not too complicated for me. It is manual focus only. I think I can handle that, even for non-stationary subjects: at 12mm the DoF is large that focusing is not critical, and anyway MF on A6000 is not that hard with focus peaking. Am I right in this?

I have owned this lens since it first shipped. The DOF is so huge that it is almost hard to get it wrong. I have a ton of MF lenses but I shoot almost only the AF because I can't focus, for example, the 50mm MF lenses fast enough and accurately enough for my moving subjects. The 12mm is the only MF lens that I carry routinely, because this isn't a problem.

AHM said:
But the lens, from what I read, has some distortion: chromatic aberration, vignetting, and a little barrel distortion. Clearly, the camera will not correct for this (as there is no electronic connection to the lens). Is there some software where I can batch process to correct this? I usually just use out-of-camera JPEG, but I could do raw. However, I don't want to spend $10/month to subscribe to LR; it would have to be free or cheap software. Also, since the camera does not record the aperture, perhaps batch processing is not even possible (vignetting at least depends on aperture). I'm not really interested in having to fiddle with each individual image. Perhaps I'm unrealistic?

I think you should worry less. If you can manage the composition challenges with super wide, which are fun but different, then you will get out of camera jpegs you like. Here is a link to two of them, sooc, that I posted a while ago: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54002408

I haven't looked for free correction software, but PTLens is very good and only costs $25 total. I do use it for perspective correction when the situation, to my eye, is severe. As for "fiddling with each picture", if it is a picture you really like a little fiddling is usually needed anyway. Bear in mind that the two I posted in that link had no fiddling (maybe a little crop.)

W5JCK · Sep 5, 2014

Great lens. I have it. Don't worry about MF as that won't be an issue with an UWA lens.

Any UWA lens is going to have some distortion, vignetting, coma, chroma, etc., but it isn't much of an issue with this lens. Many image processing applications offer lens profiles for various lenses. Lightroom is my favorite and you can definitely apply a lens profile to hundreds of images within seconds using it. I have the purchased version I bought long ago and upgraded to the current version. The full version is only $150. You can of course take OOC JPEGs and experience a fraction of the power of RAW images, or you can step up to a whole new level of photography that will blow your mind.

BTW, this is a fairly new lens so I'm not sure if you can find a lens profile for it yet. However with apps like Lightroom you can make your own.

--
An astrophotography hobbyist and amateur radio instructor and examiner. Sony a7, Sony a6000, and Canon Powershot G1 X. https://www.flickr.com/photos/jackswinden/

AHM · Sep 5, 2014

wb2trf said:
AHM said:

I'm thinking of buying the Samyang 12mm F/2. I'm not a sophisticated photographer, so there are some things that I need to figure out first to see if it's not too complicated for me. It is manual focus only. I think I can handle that, even for non-stationary subjects: at 12mm the DoF is large that focusing is not critical, and anyway MF on A6000 is not that hard with focus peaking. Am I right in this?

Click to expand...

I have owned this lens since it first shipped. The DOF is so huge that it is almost hard to get it wrong. I have a ton of MF lenses but I shoot almost only the AF because I can't focus, for example, the 50mm MF lenses fast enough and accurately enough for my moving subjects. The 12mm is the only MF lens that I carry routinely, because this isn't a problem.

wb2trf said:

But the lens, from what I read, has some distortion: chromatic aberration, vignetting, and a little barrel distortion. Clearly, the camera will not correct for this (as there is no electronic connection to the lens). Is there some software where I can batch process to correct this? I usually just use out-of-camera JPEG, but I could do raw. However, I don't want to spend $10/month to subscribe to LR; it would have to be free or cheap software. Also, since the camera does not record the aperture, perhaps batch processing is not even possible (vignetting at least depends on aperture). I'm not really interested in having to fiddle with each individual image. Perhaps I'm unrealistic?

Click to expand...

I think you should worry less. If you can manage the composition challenges with super wide, which are fun but different, then you will get out of camera jpegs you like. Here is a link to two of them, sooc, that I posted a while ago: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54002408

I haven't looked for free correction software, but PTLens is very good and only costs $25 total. I do use it for perspective correction when the situation, to my eye, is severe. As for "fiddling with each picture", if it is a picture you really like a little fiddling is usually needed anyway. Bear in mind that the two I posted in that link had no fiddling (maybe a little crop.)

Thanks, PTLens sounds like what I need. What you're saying that SOOC JPEGs in many cases are OK, and for those that are not I could use PTLens for correction -- it seems like PTLens works on JPEGs.

I believe that LR is only available as subscription now, $10/month. Certainly, there are many arguments in favor of raw (with good computer software), but not sure I'm ready yet to take the jump. Too bad Apple's Aperture has been discontinued -- but perhaps some features will make it into future versions of iPhoto.

AHM · Sep 11, 2014

wb2trf said:
AHM said:

I'm thinking of buying the Samyang 12mm F/2. I'm not a sophisticated photographer, so there are some things that I need to figure out first to see if it's not too complicated for me. It is manual focus only. I think I can handle that, even for non-stationary subjects: at 12mm the DoF is large that focusing is not critical, and anyway MF on A6000 is not that hard with focus peaking. Am I right in this?

Click to expand...

I have owned this lens since it first shipped. The DOF is so huge that it is almost hard to get it wrong. I have a ton of MF lenses but I shoot almost only the AF because I can't focus, for example, the 50mm MF lenses fast enough and accurately enough for my moving subjects. The 12mm is the only MF lens that I carry routinely, because this isn't a problem.

wb2trf said:

But the lens, from what I read, has some distortion: chromatic aberration, vignetting, and a little barrel distortion. Clearly, the camera will not correct for this (as there is no electronic connection to the lens). Is there some software where I can batch process to correct this? I usually just use out-of-camera JPEG, but I could do raw. However, I don't want to spend $10/month to subscribe to LR; it would have to be free or cheap software. Also, since the camera does not record the aperture, perhaps batch processing is not even possible (vignetting at least depends on aperture). I'm not really interested in having to fiddle with each individual image. Perhaps I'm unrealistic?

Click to expand...

I think you should worry less. If you can manage the composition challenges with super wide, which are fun but different, then you will get out of camera jpegs you like. Here is a link to two of them, sooc, that I posted a while ago: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54002408

I haven't looked for free correction software, but PTLens is very good and only costs $25 total. I do use it for perspective correction when the situation, to my eye, is severe. As for "fiddling with each picture", if it is a picture you really like a little fiddling is usually needed anyway. Bear in mind that the two I posted in that link had no fiddling (maybe a little crop.)

So, I received my Samyang 12mm. Just had time for a few test shots, and it seems sharp enough. MF actually is not much of an issue. But it does have a lot of chromatic aberration, and I cannot seem to correct is in PTLens. I can remove it in one part of the image, but then it shows up in another part. Or I can remove it for horizontal lines, but then it shows up for vertical lines. I don't really want to spend $10 per month for LR, so do you have any suggestions?

Another somewhat annoying issue is that infinity is not at infinity, i.e., at the end of the focus dial. I have read this is an issue with many Samyang lenses. Not a big issue, but it would solve focusing in a lot of cases if you could just push the focus to one end of the scale.

wb2trf · Sep 12, 2014

AHM said:
wb2trf said:

AHM said:

I'm thinking of buying the Samyang 12mm F/2. I'm not a sophisticated photographer, so there are some things that I need to figure out first to see if it's not too complicated for me. It is manual focus only. I think I can handle that, even for non-stationary subjects: at 12mm the DoF is large that focusing is not critical, and anyway MF on A6000 is not that hard with focus peaking. Am I right in this?

Click to expand...

I have owned this lens since it first shipped. The DOF is so huge that it is almost hard to get it wrong. I have a ton of MF lenses but I shoot almost only the AF because I can't focus, for example, the 50mm MF lenses fast enough and accurately enough for my moving subjects. The 12mm is the only MF lens that I carry routinely, because this isn't a problem.

AHM said:

But the lens, from what I read, has some distortion: chromatic aberration, vignetting, and a little barrel distortion. Clearly, the camera will not correct for this (as there is no electronic connection to the lens). Is there some software where I can batch process to correct this? I usually just use out-of-camera JPEG, but I could do raw. However, I don't want to spend $10/month to subscribe to LR; it would have to be free or cheap software. Also, since the camera does not record the aperture, perhaps batch processing is not even possible (vignetting at least depends on aperture). I'm not really interested in having to fiddle with each individual image. Perhaps I'm unrealistic?

Click to expand...

I think you should worry less. If you can manage the composition challenges with super wide, which are fun but different, then you will get out of camera jpegs you like. Here is a link to two of them, sooc, that I posted a while ago: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54002408

I haven't looked for free correction software, but PTLens is very good and only costs $25 total. I do use it for perspective correction when the situation, to my eye, is severe. As for "fiddling with each picture", if it is a picture you really like a little fiddling is usually needed anyway. Bear in mind that the two I posted in that link had no fiddling (maybe a little crop.)

Click to expand...

So, I received my Samyang 12mm. Just had time for a few test shots, and it seems sharp enough. MF actually is not much of an issue. But it does have a lot of chromatic aberration, and I cannot seem to correct is in PTLens. I can remove it in one part of the image, but then it shows up in another part. Or I can remove it for horizontal lines, but then it shows up for vertical lines. I don't really want to spend $10 per month for LR, so do you have any suggestions?

No suggestions. Google. There are a bunch of freeware photo editors that have varying capabilities.

AHM said:
Another somewhat annoying issue is that infinity is not at infinity, i.e., at the end of the focus dial. I have read this is an issue with many Samyang lenses. Not a big issue, but it would solve focusing in a lot of cases if you could just push the focus to one end of the scale.

So what are you telling me this for? You also want me to suggest a "less than $10/mo" solution for focus not at infinity? Hey? Stop whining. Make a decision. Send it back if you want.

You're only problem is that, overall, you probably cannot get better optics at 12mm even if you pay a lot more. For 2x the price, equivalent to 3 years of lightroom subscription, you can get zoom and AF but less sharp and slower from Sony or less a prime that is less sharp and slower from Ziess. It is a terrible world isn't it?

TJ61 · Sep 12, 2014

Thanks for posting your experience. I'm wrestling between the Samyang 12 and the sel1018, and leaning towards the 1018, though I don't plan to get either for a while yet. In-camera lens correction is definitely a factor for me.

In my searching, I heard of a Sony on-camera app for purchase that does lens corrections. I don't recall if there were settings for actual lenses, or if you input some parameters to make corrections (or both), but you might check into this.

Not too surprised to hear about the focus at infinity issue -- as a manufacturing tolerance, better to err on that side than the other. With the huge DOF, though, it seems you could easily dial in the hyperfocal distance using the distance scale on the lens. Or just mark true infinity, and manually dial it just a bit back for safe measure. I'd be interested to hear if/how that works.

AHM · Sep 12, 2014

TJ61 said:
Thanks for posting your experience. I'm wrestling between the Samyang 12 and the sel1018, and leaning towards the 1018, though I don't plan to get either for a while yet. In-camera lens correction is definitely a factor for me.

To me a deciding factor was definitely the F/2 aperture, and of course the price.

TJ61 said:
In my searching, I heard of a Sony on-camera app for purchase that does lens corrections. I don't recall if there were settings for actual lenses, or if you input some parameters to make corrections (or both), but you might check into this.

Ah, very interesting, I didn't know. I found it, and it's $10, quite pricy for an app. On the other hand, PTLens is $25, and LR is $10/month, so in that context it's very reasonable. My only worry is how easy it is dialing in the values of corrections just using the LCD. Of course, you can try taking a picture, download it, then correct settings and so on. If I try it out, I will post how it works out.

TJ61 said:
Not too surprised to hear about the focus at infinity issue -- as a manufacturing tolerance, better to err on that side than the other. With the huge DOF, though, it seems you could easily dial in the hyperfocal distance using the distance scale on the lens. Or just mark true infinity, and manually dial it just a bit back for safe measure. I'd be interested to hear if/how that works.

Yes, I was thinking of making a mark. But right now I'm evaluating the lens, I can still return it, so I will try that. At F/8 it doesn't really matter, but at lower apertures it does make a difference.

TJ61 · Sep 12, 2014

AHM said:
TJ61 said:

Thanks for posting your experience. I'm wrestling between the Samyang 12 and the sel1018, and leaning towards the 1018, though I don't plan to get either for a while yet. In-camera lens correction is definitely a factor for me.

Click to expand...

To me a deciding factor was definitely the F/2 aperture, and of course the price.

Yes, those are two awesome factors in its favor...and it's sharp as a tack, I hear.

AHM said:
AHM said:

In my searching, I heard of a Sony on-camera app for purchase that does lens corrections. I don't recall if there were settings for actual lenses, or if you input some parameters to make corrections (or both), but you might check into this.

Click to expand...

Ah, very interesting, I didn't know. I found it, and it's $10, quite pricy for an app. On the other hand, PTLens is $25, and LR is $10/month, so in that context it's very reasonable. My only worry is how easy it is dialing in the values of corrections just using the LCD. Of course, you can try taking a picture, download it, then correct settings and so on. If I try it out, I will post how it works out.

I'd be very interested to hear how these corrections are implemented. (I don't do "raw", and have no clue how lens corrections are applied there.) It would be nice if they were standardized to the point that you could use the same ones as those used in LR, etc. for a given lens, rather than coming up with your own through trial and error.

AHM said:
AHM said:

Not too surprised to hear about the focus at infinity issue -- as a manufacturing tolerance, better to err on that side than the other. With the huge DOF, though, it seems you could easily dial in the hyperfocal distance using the distance scale on the lens. Or just mark true infinity, and manually dial it just a bit back for safe measure. I'd be interested to hear if/how that works.

Click to expand...

Yes, I was thinking of making a mark. But right now I'm evaluating the lens, I can still return it, so I will try that. At F/8 it doesn't really matter, but at lower apertures it does make a difference.

Which is where you'll be if/when you're using it for astrophotography.

cptobvious · Sep 12, 2014

I have the Samyang 14mm on my 5D and have to use hyperfocal focusing, as the camera doesn't have live view and seeing focus through the viewfinder is impossible even with a matte focusing screen, except for very close subjects.

Fortunately, DOF is still very deep even at f/2.8 for landscape shots, and around f/5.6 you can just ballpark it and get the whole scene in focus. I'd expect focusing the Samyang 12mm on a NEX body to be a non-issue because of magnified live view and focus peaking.

AHM · Sep 13, 2014

I bought the Lens Compensation app. It works very well. It seems to do a much better job than PTLens at removing chromatic aberration. I think it must be because it operates on the raw images, whereas I had PTLens operate on the JPEGs (PTLens can also operate on raw). From my few experiments, it seems Lens Compensation can almost totally remove chromatic aberration -- almost, still perhaps a little remains (but that is true for other of my lenses with in-camera compensation). I have to do some more experimentation. It's not too hard to dial in. Barrel distortion can be done directly from live view. Chromatic aberration can be done by taking a picture, look at the magnified view of the picture on the LCD, change the setting and so on. No need to download pictures to computer to calibrate the settings.

AHM · Sep 13, 2014

I did a little more reading on the web about chromatic aberration and some experimentation. There are two kinds of CA (sorry, I'm sure many already know this): lateral and axial. What the lens compensation app and PTLens remove is lateral CA. On my images from the Samyang lens there is still some purple fringe remaining along some edges against bright light after correcting for CA. I'm fairly sure this is axial CA. As opposed to lateral CA, axial CA depends on the F-number. And exactly, by stopping down the lens to F5.6, the purple fringing is eliminated.

One can hardly complain that the Samyang lens has some purple fringing at F2, since, well, there is no other 12mm lens that can do F2. So, it's still the best in its category!

Brian_Smith · Sep 13, 2014

AHM said:
I believe that LR is only available as subscription now, $10/month. Certainly, there are many arguments in favor of raw (with good computer software), but not sure I'm ready yet to take the jump. Too bad Apple's Aperture has been discontinued -- but perhaps some features will make it into future versions of iPhoto.

Actually, you can purchase Adobe Lightroom as a stand-alone product.

techiecool · Sep 13, 2014

Doing the same debating the 1018 vs samyang 12. I'm leaning to the 12mm at this point.

AHM · Sep 13, 2014

In case anyone buys the same lens and want to do in-camera distortion compensation, here are the settings for Lens Compensation I found: +3 for red/green, and +12 for blue/yellow.

After this, pictures still have some purple fringing. I made some test shots. The following picture is at F/8:

If you look at the houses on the left at 100% you will see purple blobs here and there.

This picture is probably at F/2.8

Look along the left edge. Around halfway up there is hole in the canopy where the sky becomes purple because there are a lot of find branches that all have purple edges. Once you know it's there, you don't have to pixel peep to see it.

I guess this is just the nature of the lens. It doesn't bother me, but it's something to be aware of. Probably the zeiss touit 12mm has this more under control.

AHM · Sep 14, 2014

TJ61 said:
Not too surprised to hear about the focus at infinity issue -- as a manufacturing tolerance, better to err on that side than the other. With the huge DOF, though, it seems you could easily dial in the hyperfocal distance using the distance scale on the lens. Or just mark true infinity, and manually dial it just a bit back for safe measure. I'd be interested to hear if/how that works.

Perhaps this was more a user error from me. There is an infinity mark, an L lying on its side, and if you put it there (rather than at the end of the scale), it is quite accurate infinity. Perhaps you can do ever so slightly better by using focus magnify, but it's on the sub-pixel level.

Euell · Sep 14, 2014

AHM said:
I did a little more reading on the web about chromatic aberration and some experimentation. There are two kinds of CA (sorry, I'm sure many already know this): lateral and axial. What the lens compensation app and PTLens remove is lateral CA. On my images from the Samyang lens there is still some purple fringe remaining along some edges against bright light after correcting for CA. I'm fairly sure this is axial CA. As opposed to lateral CA, axial CA depends on the F-number. And exactly, by stopping down the lens to F5.6, the purple fringing is eliminated.

One can hardly complain that the Samyang lens has some purple fringing at F2, since, well, there is no other 12mm lens that can do F2. So, it's still the best in its category!

Both Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom have provision for eliminating purple fringing.

AHM · Sep 15, 2014

Euell said:
AHM said:

I did a little more reading on the web about chromatic aberration and some experimentation. There are two kinds of CA (sorry, I'm sure many already know this): lateral and axial. What the lens compensation app and PTLens remove is lateral CA. On my images from the Samyang lens there is still some purple fringe remaining along some edges against bright light after correcting for CA. I'm fairly sure this is axial CA. As opposed to lateral CA, axial CA depends on the F-number. And exactly, by stopping down the lens to F5.6, the purple fringing is eliminated.

One can hardly complain that the Samyang lens has some purple fringing at F2, since, well, there is no other 12mm lens that can do F2. So, it's still the best in its category!

Click to expand...

Both Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom have provision for eliminating purple fringing.

Yes, I can see that now that I check on the web. Eventually I might have to go raw and get LR.

Anyway, I went back and carefully checked some landscape shots I did with my Sony 35mm lens. And indeed that also has purple fringing, even at F/8. So, the Samyang lens may not be bad in that respect, especially considering the wide angle, which makes CA more difficult to manage. It seems any lens has purple fringing under difficult lightening conditions. Sorry if this is well know to you, but I'm still learning.

RichardLarssen · Sep 15, 2014

AHM said:
wb2trf said:

AHM said:

I'm thinking of buying the Samyang 12mm F/2. I'm not a sophisticated photographer, so there are some things that I need to figure out first to see if it's not too complicated for me. It is manual focus only. I think I can handle that, even for non-stationary subjects: at 12mm the DoF is large that focusing is not critical, and anyway MF on A6000 is not that hard with focus peaking. Am I right in this?

Click to expand...

I have owned this lens since it first shipped. The DOF is so huge that it is almost hard to get it wrong. I have a ton of MF lenses but I shoot almost only the AF because I can't focus, for example, the 50mm MF lenses fast enough and accurately enough for my moving subjects. The 12mm is the only MF lens that I carry routinely, because this isn't a problem.

AHM said:

But the lens, from what I read, has some distortion: chromatic aberration, vignetting, and a little barrel distortion. Clearly, the camera will not correct for this (as there is no electronic connection to the lens). Is there some software where I can batch process to correct this? I usually just use out-of-camera JPEG, but I could do raw. However, I don't want to spend $10/month to subscribe to LR; it would have to be free or cheap software. Also, since the camera does not record the aperture, perhaps batch processing is not even possible (vignetting at least depends on aperture). I'm not really interested in having to fiddle with each individual image. Perhaps I'm unrealistic?

Click to expand...

I think you should worry less. If you can manage the composition challenges with super wide, which are fun but different, then you will get out of camera jpegs you like. Here is a link to two of them, sooc, that I posted a while ago: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54002408

I haven't looked for free correction software, but PTLens is very good and only costs $25 total. I do use it for perspective correction when the situation, to my eye, is severe. As for "fiddling with each picture", if it is a picture you really like a little fiddling is usually needed anyway. Bear in mind that the two I posted in that link had no fiddling (maybe a little crop.)

Click to expand...

So, I received my Samyang 12mm. Just had time for a few test shots, and it seems sharp enough. MF actually is not much of an issue. But it does have a lot of chromatic aberration, and I cannot seem to correct is in PTLens. I can remove it in one part of the image, but then it shows up in another part. Or I can remove it for horizontal lines, but then it shows up for vertical lines. I don't really want to spend $10 per month for LR, so do you have any suggestions?

Another somewhat annoying issue is that infinity is not at infinity, i.e., at the end of the focus dial. I have read this is an issue with many Samyang lenses. Not a big issue, but it would solve focusing in a lot of cases if you could just push the focus to one end of the scale.

I have the same Chromatic problem... But infinity is on infinity on both my samyang lenses. It is not at the far end and it is not supposed to be in the far end either. On the point where the line is vertical, thats where Infinity is. This is due to variations in temperature can affect focus.

regards Ric

RichardLarssen · Sep 15, 2014

AHM said:
TJ61 said:

Not too surprised to hear about the focus at infinity issue -- as a manufacturing tolerance, better to err on that side than the other. With the huge DOF, though, it seems you could easily dial in the hyperfocal distance using the distance scale on the lens. Or just mark true infinity, and manually dial it just a bit back for safe measure. I'd be interested to hear if/how that works.

Click to expand...

Perhaps this was more a user error from me. There is an infinity mark, an L lying on its side, and if you put it there (rather than at the end of the scale), it is quite accurate infinity. Perhaps you can do ever so slightly better by using focus magnify, but it's on the sub-pixel level.

correct, infinity is on The "L"

regards Ric

Samyang 12mm: Software for lens correction?

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