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Going to Switzerland....Need charger

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Bill80530

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I have a Rayovac PS4 charger that works fine here. The company says it probably won't work in Europe with a transformer because the chip inside is expecting 60 hz and Switzerland uses 50 hz.

I am not against buying another charger if I need to. The powerbook that I am taking to download onto works on 120v or 240v so all I need is the correct plug for that.

Anyone have any ideas?
 
Bill Brinkhorst said:
I have a Rayovac PS4 charger that works fine here. The company says
it probably won't work in Europe with a transformer because the
chip inside is expecting 60 hz and Switzerland uses 50 hz.

I am not against buying another charger if I need to. The powerbook
that I am taking to download onto works on 120v or 240v so all I
need is the correct plug for that.

Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
I've just returned from a 2 week trip to Arica and used a MAHA charger from Thomas Distributing in a variety of challenging circumstances. Worked great! It was the 'international' version of the 401 charger. Once you get the right adaptor for the Swiss plugs, also buy a US 2:1 or 3:1 plug so that you can both charge and run your laptop from a single Swiss adaaptor

link for the charger: http://www.thomas-distributing.com/mhc401fs.htm

part # MHC401FS220DCW for the 110/220 AC/DC power unit and it comes with 4 of the MAHA 2200 mAh AA batteries.
 
I'm in the same position. I have Rayovac PS4 bought in singapore and I will go to Germany for 3 weeks.

I don't think the different frequency will involve so much because the output of adapter is in DC value.
Bill Brinkhorst said:
I have a Rayovac PS4 charger that works fine here. The company says
it probably won't work in Europe with a transformer because the
chip inside is expecting 60 hz and Switzerland uses 50 hz.

I am not against buying another charger if I need to. The powerbook
that I am taking to download onto works on 120v or 240v so all I
need is the correct plug for that.

Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
 
widman said:
I don't think the different frequency will involve so much because
the output of adapter is in DC value.
Bill Brinkhorst said:
I have a Rayovac PS4 charger that works fine here. The company says
it probably won't work in Europe with a transformer because the
chip inside is expecting 60 hz and Switzerland uses 50 hz.

I am not against buying another charger if I need to. The powerbook
that I am taking to download onto works on 120v or 240v so all I
need is the correct plug for that.

Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The fact that the output is in DC is irrelevent. The problem is that the adaptor needs to convert from AC to DC, and the input transformer is designed to see 60 Hz. At 50 Hz, the tranformer will be less efficient, and therefore may overheat.
--
Brian
 
Please explain your statement.

From my understanding the voltage transform is base on ration primary coil and secondary coil. There is no frequency involved. Is there any difference material or characteristic of coil or plate that use for 50 Hz and 60 Hz? I don't think so.

energy loss on transformer are due to
  • Flux loss - no frequency involved. Involve how many coil on primary and secondary. The more coil on both site the less loss.
  • self induce current. - can be reduced by sliced place
any other thing that involve the frequency?

the step to convert 110 V AC to 12 DC is
110 V AC ---> 12 V AC by transformer
12 V AC ---> 12 V DC by diode. (not exactly-RMS )

there is no special diode that work on 50 Hz or 60 Hz!
Brian Oliver said:
widman said:
I don't think the different frequency will involve so much because
the output of adapter is in DC value.
Bill Brinkhorst said:
I have a Rayovac PS4 charger that works fine here. The company says
it probably won't work in Europe with a transformer because the
chip inside is expecting 60 hz and Switzerland uses 50 hz.

I am not against buying another charger if I need to. The powerbook
that I am taking to download onto works on 120v or 240v so all I
need is the correct plug for that.

Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The fact that the output is in DC is irrelevent. The problem is
that the adaptor needs to convert from AC to DC, and the input
transformer is designed to see 60 Hz. At 50 Hz, the tranformer
will be less efficient, and therefore may overheat.
--
Brian
Click to expand...
 
Buy a DPS9000 battery and all you will need is an adaptor to fit any power supply in Europe. That's an adaptor, NOT a converter. The battery will last ALL day once it's been cycled.
widman said:
From my understanding the voltage transform is base on ration
primary coil and secondary coil. There is no frequency involved.
Is there any difference material or characteristic of coil or plate
that use for 50 Hz and 60 Hz? I don't think so.

energy loss on transformer are due to
  • Flux loss - no frequency involved. Involve how many coil on
primary and secondary. The more coil on both site the less loss.
  • self induce current. - can be reduced by sliced place
any other thing that involve the frequency?

the step to convert 110 V AC to 12 DC is
110 V AC ---> 12 V AC by transformer
12 V AC ---> 12 V DC by diode. (not exactly-RMS )

there is no special diode that work on 50 Hz or 60 Hz!
Brian Oliver said:
widman said:
I don't think the different frequency will involve so much because
the output of adapter is in DC value.
Bill Brinkhorst said:
I have a Rayovac PS4 charger that works fine here. The company says
it probably won't work in Europe with a transformer because the
chip inside is expecting 60 hz and Switzerland uses 50 hz.

I am not against buying another charger if I need to. The powerbook
that I am taking to download onto works on 120v or 240v so all I
need is the correct plug for that.

Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The fact that the output is in DC is irrelevent. The problem is
that the adaptor needs to convert from AC to DC, and the input
transformer is designed to see 60 Hz. At 50 Hz, the tranformer
will be less efficient, and therefore may overheat.
--
Brian
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Bill while there in 2001 I carried the MAHA C204F with the European adapter and it worked fine. Also used it in 7 other countries.
--
paddy
 
widman said:
From my understanding the voltage transform is base on ration
primary coil and secondary coil. There is no frequency involved.
Is there any difference material or characteristic of coil or plate
that use for 50 Hz and 60 Hz? I don't think so.

energy loss on transformer are due to
  • Flux loss - no frequency involved. Involve how many coil on
primary and secondary. The more coil on both site the less loss.
  • self induce current. - can be reduced by sliced place
any other thing that involve the frequency?

the step to convert 110 V AC to 12 DC is
110 V AC ---> 12 V AC by transformer
12 V AC ---> 12 V DC by diode. (not exactly-RMS )

there is no special diode that work on 50 Hz or 60 Hz!
Brian Oliver said:
widman said:
I don't think the different frequency will involve so much because
the output of adapter is in DC value.
Bill Brinkhorst said:
I have a Rayovac PS4 charger that works fine here. The company says
it probably won't work in Europe with a transformer because the
chip inside is expecting 60 hz and Switzerland uses 50 hz.

I am not against buying another charger if I need to. The powerbook
that I am taking to download onto works on 120v or 240v so all I
need is the correct plug for that.

Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The fact that the output is in DC is irrelevent. The problem is
that the adaptor needs to convert from AC to DC, and the input
transformer is designed to see 60 Hz. At 50 Hz, the tranformer
will be less efficient, and therefore may overheat.
--
Brian
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
AC transformers are designed to operate optimally within a certain frequency range. If your unit is optimized for 60 Hz, the transformer will be less efficient, and will have to work harder to supply the same current.
--
Brian
 
Brian is very correct, both from experience and from digging for long-ago theory.

The problem is the amount of iron in the core, which will be optimized. If there is not enough vs. other parameters including frequency, then the core will saturate - and more current be drawn, hence heat. Enough to melt things, or throw out a thermal breaker if there is one, or simply burn out. 50Hz does indeed make a big difference compared to 60, if the design doesn't include it.

The alternative are the switching design converters which are provided on many small electronics items today - cellphones for example usually have these, as do many laptop power supplies, and my Minolta battery charger does.

In this case, any inductors do not operate at power cord input frequency, but rather the switching oscillator frequency. Then the line frequency doesn't matter - and because of the high switching frequency, the transformer if used (and thus the converter) is very light.

The best kind....

By the way, you can find almost anything you want easily in Switzerland - generally I live there. But it's an excursion to find and get to the shop, across likely language issues, so best prepared as you plan before travel. Do be comfortable you can recover if needed, though - the hotel persons will gladly help you find the local shop.

Have a nice trip, and enjoy an unusual country which has much variety, and much interestingly related if not in common with the US.
Brian Oliver said:
widman said:
From my understanding the voltage transform is base on ration
primary coil and secondary coil. There is no frequency involved.
Is there any difference material or characteristic of coil or plate
that use for 50 Hz and 60 Hz? I don't think so.

energy loss on transformer are due to
  • Flux loss - no frequency involved. Involve how many coil on
primary and secondary. The more coil on both site the less loss.
  • self induce current. - can be reduced by sliced place
any other thing that involve the frequency?

the step to convert 110 V AC to 12 DC is
110 V AC ---> 12 V AC by transformer
12 V AC ---> 12 V DC by diode. (not exactly-RMS )

there is no special diode that work on 50 Hz or 60 Hz!
Brian Oliver said:
widman said:
I don't think the different frequency will involve so much because
the output of adapter is in DC value.
Bill Brinkhorst said:
I have a Rayovac PS4 charger that works fine here. The company says
it probably won't work in Europe with a transformer because the
chip inside is expecting 60 hz and Switzerland uses 50 hz.

I am not against buying another charger if I need to. The powerbook
that I am taking to download onto works on 120v or 240v so all I
need is the correct plug for that.

Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The fact that the output is in DC is irrelevent. The problem is
that the adaptor needs to convert from AC to DC, and the input
transformer is designed to see 60 Hz. At 50 Hz, the tranformer
will be less efficient, and therefore may overheat.
--
Brian
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
AC transformers are designed to operate optimally within a certain
frequency range. If your unit is optimized for 60 Hz, the
transformer will be less efficient, and will have to work harder to
supply the same current.
--
Brian
Click to expand...
 
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