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Bypassing Lightroom catalogue ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JP Scherrer
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JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.
Click to expand...
If you don't appreciate what the catalog does for you, you probably won't care about the other features, but yes, there are other features. Publishing to & managing online galleries, like Flickr, Facebook, 500px, or wherever; using LR Mobile with an iPad or phone; and, of course things like the map, book, slideshow, print, and web modules. I don't print much, myself, but I've heard others say that printing from Lightroom is easier than from Photoshop.

One thing that is important to me is that Lightroom is designed from the ground up to be a non-destructive workflow (largely thanks to the catalog). That's true even if you are editing JPEG files. The changes to the file while you are editing are reversible and only set in stone when you export.

It is true that Photoshop can be used non-destructively if you know what you are doing, and are careful. But Photoshop is full of little traps that can lead you down the destructive editing path of doom. Well, maybe not doom, but a lot more work if you want to make changes later, and in some cases you can degrade the quality of your image.

But I like the catalog mainly for things like virtual copies and smart collections, which I do use a lot. For example there is a smart collection which contains all my 5 star rated pictures, so they are easy to find, and from there I can find other pictures from the same session by going back to the containing folder.

I used to find it a bother to have to import every picture I wanted to work on, especially if I was downloading a picture from, say, the DPR Retouching forum to play with. However, there is an auto-import feature that makes that simple. Download the picture to a particular folder, and it will automatically get imported when you open LR up. Very convenient, and keeps those pictures isolated from the rest of my own pictures that I import in the normal way.
 
Jim Hess said:
Jim Hess wrote

Another misconception seems to be the need to export a final or finished image. Why? Lightroom has an excellent image browser, keywords, all sorts of filtering options, to enable you to browse your images just about any way you want. Why not just browse your original images that are literally unmodified?
Click to expand...
Many of us use LR at the start of our workflow but will often finish the image off in Photoshop and we can't bring the image back into LR because we use layers. Keeping track of our images using the LR catalogue for some images but not for others gets complex.

Peter
 
ppage said:
ppage said:
Jim Hess wrote
Another misconception seems to be the need to export a final or finished image. Why? Lightroom has an excellent image browser, keywords, all sorts of filtering options, to enable you to browse your images just about any way you want. Why not just browse your original images that are literally unmodified?
Click to expand...
Many of us use LR at the start of our workflow but will often finish the image off in Photoshop and we can't bring the image back into LR because we use layers. Keeping track of our images using the LR catalogue for some images but not for others gets complex.

Peter
Click to expand...
You can bring a layered file back into LR. It is a lot larger than a non-layered file, but it can be done. If you then work on it in LR some more, you will be working on a flattened view, since there are obviously no layers in LR. But, you can take the layered file (either TIFF or PSD) that was sent back to LR and then send it back to PS and edit it some more there by choosing "Edit Original", and the layers will still be there.
 
qunamax said:
JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
While you can develop raw in photoshop, lightroom can develop thousands of raws with ease, think of it as batch processor, everything about is to develop large quantities of photos.
It has easy access and workflow for usual photo treatment tools like healing, gradients, burn/dodge and other brush effects and it's all non destructible, pull the slider back and it's gone.
It has a nice integration with photoshop, you can directly fire up panorama stitching script for instance.
Click to expand...
That's exactly the point: many of us do not take"thousands" of pics in a row, hence do not need the batch facility !

...and even when I take, say, 50 pics of the sane subject, I just can't use batch system as they all have been shot while changing settings, except perhaps the WB (but I rarely have to change that) !

In fact, what I LOVE in CNX2 is that it recognize the in-camera settings (although one csn modify them during the post-process) ! (Though I usually shoot with most of these in-camera settings to OFF or NO or Ø !)

About panoramas, I never use Photoshop do make them: I prefer a dedicated software like PTGui ! (Where I can send the serie of images directly from CNX2 also !)

;-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
 
billythek said:
JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.
Click to expand...
If you don't appreciate what the catalog does for you, you probably won't care about the other features, but yes, there are other features. Publishing to & managing online galleries, like Flickr, Facebook, 500px, or wherever; using LR Mobile with an iPad or phone; and, of course things like the map, book, slideshow, print, and web modules. I don't print much, myself, but I've heard others say that printing from Lightroom is easier than from Photoshop.

One thing that is important to me is that Lightroom is designed from the ground up to be a non-destructive workflow (largely thanks to the catalog). That's true even if you are editing JPEG files. The changes to the file while you are editing are reversible and only set in stone when you export.

It is true that Photoshop can be used non-destructively if you know what you are doing, and are careful. But Photoshop is full of little traps that can lead you down the destructive editing path of doom. Well, maybe not doom, but a lot more work if you want to make changes later, and in some cases you can degrade the quality of your image.

But I like the catalog mainly for things like virtual copies and smart collections, which I do use a lot. For example there is a smart collection which contains all my 5 star rated pictures, so they are easy to find, and from there I can find other pictures from the same session by going back to the containing folder.

I used to find it a bother to have to import every picture I wanted to work on, especially if I was downloading a picture from, say, the DPR Retouching forum to play with. However, there is an auto-import feature that makes that simple. Download the picture to a particular folder, and it will automatically get imported when you open LR up. Very convenient, and keeps those pictures isolated from the rest of my own pictures that I import in the normal way.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all these considerations, Billy !

Reading you comments above, I reckon I'd better just forget about LR, because I don't use "publishing, managing online galleries" -much less with iPad or iPhone ! ...neither do I care about "maps, books, slide-shows, print or Web" that way !

So it seems that LR would really be overkill for my needs !

Thanks for having opened my eyes !

Best regards,

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
 
Last edited:
JP Scherrer said:
qunamax said:
JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
While you can develop raw in photoshop, lightroom can develop thousands of raws with ease, think of it as batch processor, everything about is to develop large quantities of photos.
It has easy access and workflow for usual photo treatment tools like healing, gradients, burn/dodge and other brush effects and it's all non destructible, pull the slider back and it's gone.
It has a nice integration with photoshop, you can directly fire up panorama stitching script for instance.
Click to expand...
That's exactly the point: many of us do not take"thousands" of pics in a row, hence do not need the batch facility !

...and even when I take, say, 50 pics of the sane subject, I just can't use batch system as they all have been shot while changing settings, except perhaps the WB (but I rarely have to change that) !

In fact, what I LOVE in CNX2 is that it recognize the in-camera settings (although one csn modify them during the post-process) ! (Though I usually shoot with most of these in-camera settings to OFF or NO or Ø !)

About panoramas, I never use Photoshop do make them: I prefer a dedicated software like PTGui ! (Where I can send the serie of images directly from CNX2 also !)

;-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
I might not explained that well. It's not a sole batch converting, it's batch in terms that images just flow one after the other, especially when you get a good hold of lightroom, build up a nice base of presets etc. You don't have to start from 0 with every image and let's be honest, in digital age no one gets home from any session, or a walk downtown without at least fifty images of which a big number is probably taken under very similar conditions. It just speeds up things a lot and is very joyful process.
It's not just panos, all changes in photoshop get automatically saved to new copy of the file in the lightroom library, no need to do any file handling on the user side.

Anyway, I'm not working for Adobe here ;) I just gave my insight that might be of some help, I did struggle with other raw software, and occasionally use some free just for the sake of change, but in lightroom I feel at home, and for the record, i'm a corel guy since 90s :D
 
billythek said:
ppage said:
billythek said:
Jim Hess wrote
Another misconception seems to be the need to export a final or finished image. Why? Lightroom has an excellent image browser, keywords, all sorts of filtering options, to enable you to browse your images just about any way you want. Why not just browse your original images that are literally unmodified?
Click to expand...
Many of us use LR at the start of our workflow but will often finish the image off in Photoshop and we can't bring the image back into LR because we use layers. Keeping track of our images using the LR catalogue for some images but not for others gets complex.

Peter
Click to expand...
You can bring a layered file back into LR. It is a lot larger than a non-layered file, but it can be done. If you then work on it in LR some more, you will be working on a flattened view, since there are obviously no layers in LR. But, you can take the layered file (either TIFF or PSD) that was sent back to LR and then send it back to PS and edit it some more there by choosing "Edit Original", and the layers will still be there.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I do. In general, when I think I'm reasonably sure I'm not going to go back and edit the layers again, I tend to flatten the layers anyway to reduce the file size from gigantic to a mere pretty big. If I subsequently want to do Photoshop editing and need the layered version, well, I start again from the raw (which I always keep).

But I always want the finished version, flattened if necessary, back in Lightroom as that's my library.
 
qunamax said:
JP Scherrer said:
qunamax said:
JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
While you can develop raw in photoshop, lightroom can develop thousands of raws with ease, think of it as batch processor, everything about is to develop large quantities of photos.
It has easy access and workflow for usual photo treatment tools like healing, gradients, burn/dodge and other brush effects and it's all non destructible, pull the slider back and it's gone.
It has a nice integration with photoshop, you can directly fire up panorama stitching script for instance.
Click to expand...
That's exactly the point: many of us do not take"thousands" of pics in a row, hence do not need the batch facility !

...and even when I take, say, 50 pics of the sane subject, I just can't use batch system as they all have been shot while changing settings, except perhaps the WB (but I rarely have to change that) !

In fact, what I LOVE in CNX2 is that it recognize the in-camera settings (although one csn modify them during the post-process) ! (Though I usually shoot with most of these in-camera settings to OFF or NO or Ø !)

About panoramas, I never use Photoshop do make them: I prefer a dedicated software like PTGui ! (Where I can send the serie of images directly from CNX2 also !)

;-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
I might not explained that well. It's not a sole batch converting, it's batch in terms that images just flow one after the other, especially when you get a good hold of lightroom, build up a nice base of presets etc. You don't have to start from 0 with every image and let's be honest, in digital age no one gets home from any session, or a walk downtown without at least fifty images of which a big number is probably taken under very similar conditions.
Click to expand...
I do ! I guess I kept the old habit of "economizing" film and framing tight (too much!) from the "antes-digital" era ! Most of the time -though except when shooting wildlife- I often take less than 10 pics !
qunamax said:
It just speeds up things a lot and is very joyful process.
It's not just panos, all changes in photoshop get automatically saved to new copy of the file in the lightroom library, no need to do any file handling on the user side.
Anyway, I'm not working for Adobe here ;) I just gave my insight that might be of some help, I did struggle with other raw software, and occasionally use some free just for the sake of change, but in lightroom I feel at home, and for the record, i'm a corel guy since 90s :D
Click to expand...
As I said, I liked to read your POV and comments on all that ! It's just that, as I have been using VNX and CNX, plus PS since the beginning of the years 2000, I find very difficult to learn and get used to "different philosophy" softwares to convert and post-process my images !

:-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
 
JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
In terms of RAW conversion / editing LR does not do anything of note that PS can't do. PS is and probably always will be the No. 1 for photo editing. What LR provides are the basic / intermediate RAW conversion / editing features. In my view these features are more than sufficient for every day photography.

I used to use PS a long time ago but probably only used a fraction of its capabilities.

If you feel you are not going to use LR's management and publishing features then its probably not for you.
 
Member said:
billythek said:
JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.
Click to expand...
If you don't appreciate what the catalog does for you, you probably won't care about the other features, but yes, there are other features. Publishing to & managing online galleries, like Flickr, Facebook, 500px, or wherever; using LR Mobile with an iPad or phone; and, of course things like the map, book, slideshow, print, and web modules. I don't print much, myself, but I've heard others say that printing from Lightroom is easier than from Photoshop.

One thing that is important to me is that Lightroom is designed from the ground up to be a non-destructive workflow (largely thanks to the catalog). That's true even if you are editing JPEG files. The changes to the file while you are editing are reversible and only set in stone when you export.

It is true that Photoshop can be used non-destructively if you know what you are doing, and are careful. But Photoshop is full of little traps that can lead you down the destructive editing path of doom. Well, maybe not doom, but a lot more work if you want to make changes later, and in some cases you can degrade the quality of your image.

But I like the catalog mainly for things like virtual copies and smart collections, which I do use a lot. For example there is a smart collection which contains all my 5 star rated pictures, so they are easy to find, and from there I can find other pictures from the same session by going back to the containing folder.

I used to find it a bother to have to import every picture I wanted to work on, especially if I was downloading a picture from, say, the DPR Retouching forum to play with. However, there is an auto-import feature that makes that simple. Download the picture to a particular folder, and it will automatically get imported when you open LR up. Very convenient, and keeps those pictures isolated from the rest of my own pictures that I import in the normal way.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all these considerations, Billy !

Reading you comments above, I reckon I'd better just forget about LR, because I don't use "publishing, managing online galleries" -much less with iPad or iPhone ! ...neither do I care about "maps, books, slide-shows, print or Web" that way !

So it seems that LR would really be overkill for my needs !

Thanks for having opened my eyes !

Best regards,

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
If it is not right for you, it is best to stay away.
--
- Bill
 
Jim Hess said:
Simon Garrett said:
Jim Hess said:
raw (which I always keep).
Click to expand...
But I always want the finished version, flattened if necessary, back in Lightroom as that's my library.

--
Simon
Click to expand...
I always keep the raw image. But why do you feel that you need a finished, flattened version, in Lightroom? It isn't going to look any different from the master photo. And if you use the Lightroom as your library you don't have to worry about maintaining additional copies.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand that.

I keep the raw, and I use Lightroom so the raw is in Lightroom.

If the image needs work in Photoshop, I use "Edit in Photoshop" from Lightroom. This creates a TIF copy, which is stacked with the original. I keep that too, as reflects the Photoshop edits. If it's a huge, heavily-layered file, then I may well flatten it after I'm sure I've finished editing to save space.

But I'm going to keep both: the original raw file and the edited tif. What else could I do?

--
Simon
 
Last edited:
MarkNicholas said:
JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
In terms of RAW conversion / editing LR does not do anything of note that PS can't do. PS is and probably always will be the No. 1 for photo editing. What LR provides are the basic / intermediate RAW conversion / editing features. In my view these features are more than sufficient for every day photography.

I used to use PS a long time ago but probably only used a fraction of its capabilities.

If you feel you are not going to use LR's management and publishing features then its probably not for you.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys !

Your comments confirms that, as I'm allready "at ease" with the use of Photoshop for my post-processing, I don't need LR ! As I only have ever used Nikon CaptureNX (1and 2) to convert my RAW files, I only will have to learn how to use PS' ACR converter !

;-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
 
....is -first- because I started with CNX since the beginning, hence I'm used to it... But also because it's the ONLY software that recognize in-camera settings !! So I do about 95% of my post-process in CNX2, and the final touches in Photoshop ! I know how klunky CNX2 can be, but, as I don't shoot/process a lot of images in a row, I can spend more time doing it ! ...plus, I'm not a pro, so time is NOT money for me !!

The only reason for me to stop using CNX2 would be if/when I buy a new body, which will no more be supported by CNX2 from now on :-( !!

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
 
JP Scherrer said:
....is -first- because I started with CNX since the beginning, hence I'm used to it... But also because it's the ONLY software that recognize in-camera settings !! So I do about 95% of my post-process in CNX2, and the final touches in Photoshop ! I know how klunky CNX2 can be, but, as I don't shoot/process a lot of images in a row, I can spend more time doing it ! ...plus, I'm not a pro, so time is NOT money for me !!

The only reason for me to stop using CNX2 would be if/when I buy a new body, which will no more be supported by CNX2 from now on :-( !!

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
Your only issue to check is what camera models are presently supported by your PS and ACR.

 
Denis de Gannes said:
JP Scherrer said:
....is -first- because I started with CNX since the beginning, hence I'm used to it... But also because it's the ONLY software that recognize in-camera settings !! So I do about 95% of my post-process in CNX2, and the final touches in Photoshop ! I know how klunky CNX2 can be, but, as I don't shoot/process a lot of images in a row, I can spend more time doing it ! ...plus, I'm not a pro, so time is NOT money for me !!

The only reason for me to stop using CNX2 would be if/when I buy a new body, which will no more be supported by CNX2 from now on :-( !!

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
Your only issue to check is what camera models are presently supported by your PS and ACR.

http://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite/kb/camera-raw-plug-supported-cameras.html
Click to expand...
Hi Dennis !

This is a no-issue, as I know that the Nikon DF was the last DSLR body to be updated in CNX2 ! The laters D810 allready is not (and won't be) recognized !

....and it's -unfortunately- not the Nikon NX-D "would be replacement" software that will ever replace CNX2 !

Hence, I can be certain that Photoshop/Lightroom and other RAW converters will update their softwares to accept future Nikon bodies (...or at least I hope they will ;-) )

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
 
Last edited:
Member said:
MarkNicholas said:
JP Scherrer said:
Thanks for commenting ! Now another question: as LR uses the same ACR as Photoshop uses, APART FROM THE CATALOGING PART, are there things that LR does and PS doesn't ?

:-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
In terms of RAW conversion / editing LR does not do anything of note that PS can't do. PS is and probably always will be the No. 1 for photo editing. What LR provides are the basic / intermediate RAW conversion / editing features. In my view these features are more than sufficient for every day photography.

I used to use PS a long time ago but probably only used a fraction of its capabilities.

If you feel you are not going to use LR's management and publishing features then its probably not for you.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys !

Your comments confirms that, as I'm allready "at ease" with the use of Photoshop for my post-processing, I don't need LR ! As I only have ever used Nikon CaptureNX (1and 2) to convert my RAW files, I only will have to learn how to use PS' ACR converter !

;-)

J-P.

Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Click to expand...
Of course, you are free to use any workflow you like, and you should make your own informed choices. To me, the LR catalog is the main reason I use LR at all. I often use DxO these days for RAW conversion. But I start by importing (or auto-importing) into the LR catalog, even if I am just going to ship the file immediately to another app.

But if what I use and like doesn't sit well with you, there's no skin off my back. They are just tools. Use whatever works for you.
--
- Bill
 
The Latest version Photoshop CS6 is the last of the Perpetual License versions and this supports the latest version of Adobe Camera Raw 8.6 as does the newest version of Photoshop CC. This is a subscription version which is paid via monthly rental. PS CS6 will eventually stop receiving new updates.

PS CS 5 supports ACR 6.x no further updates.

PS CS 4 supports ACR 5.x no further updates.

If you refer to the link you will understand how the updates work.

So if you have PS CS 4 or 5 then support for the newer camera models will not be present.
 
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