Love the EPL-7, hate the marketing

it's not even a very good camera for taking selfies as they 'must' be hand held with this camera, you can't stand the thing on a table or wall with the screen hinged forward...

brilliant design eh....

i suppose you could use it as a prop to lean your phone against to take group selfies... :)
 
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Also, where have you been? The PEN line has regularly been marketed to hipsters and others who don't want to look like some self-proclaimed enthusiast running around with a big, clunky dslr kit hanging off them.
LOL @ 54 year old me being a hipster

LOL more @ Guy Parsons being a hipster
 
They had to stop people wondering why there was no built in EVF. So they went in exactly the opposite direction.

Very nice camera -- except for the lack of EVF. And a fully articulated screen.

Cheers, geoff
 
I didn't know it had a second thumb dial? Its just a 4 way controller i think. It only has a dial around shutter release button.
 
I'm not surprised, I just don't understand not having a built in flash, for the group they are trying to reach, the add on is a killer. --
This from their announcement: "The E-PL7’s built-in flash helps users take beautiful selfies against nighttime backgrounds".

First time buyer turning the camera over and over, "Where'd they hide that darned flash, must be here somewhere..." ;-) . Perhaps someone in marketing has a sense of ironic humor.

But what will really be the E-PL7's undoing will likely be the GM2. Rumored to have a built-in EVF, IBIS and possibly 4K video to compliment its current built-in flash and 3:2 AR screen, should Panasonic manage to maintain a smaller body than the E-PL7 then the writing's on the wall.

Add in the 13-32mm and upcoming 35-100mm zooms along with the Leica 15mm f1.7 prime designed specifically for the GM-series bodies, and Panasonic is leagues ahead of Olympus in this niche. That Olympus didn't have the basic common sense to at least bundle the compact EZ 14-42mm zoom with the E-PL7 is all the more astounding.

Funny how quickly things change in this age of digital cameras. One year ago had you told me Panasonic would so quickly recover from an uncompetitive sensor to a line-up of truly intriguing cameras in the GM-series, GH4, and FZ1000, I never would have believed you.

Just a few weeks ago I viewed the E-PL7 with so much promise, not so today.

--
Sailin' Steve
 
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I didn't know it had a second thumb dial? Its just a 4 way controller i think. It only has a dial around shutter release button.
You are right, thats the one I meant, its not a thumb dial.
 
Here's the early video review from cnet, which emphasizes the selfie capability, art filters, and wifi connectivity for "newbies," in their words. Most clearly Olympus is not presenting this as a camera for the enthusiast, and the DPR initial review dwells at great length on the consumer-oriented UI. Too bad there's not a second control wheel, as well. I thought this might be the replacement for my E-PM2 as a second Olympus body behind my E-M1, but now it looks more like a modest upgrade without much new to offer the enthusiast or hobbyist.

 
I'm not surprised, I just don't understand not having a built in flash, for the group they are trying to reach, the add on is a killer. --
This from their announcement: "The E-PL7’s built-in flash helps users take beautiful selfies against nighttime backgrounds".

First time buyer turning the camera over and over, "Where'd they hide that darned flash, must be here somewhere..." ;-) . Perhaps someone in marketing has a sense of ironic humor.
The advertising really is peculiar for this camera, on so many levels...
But what will really be the E-PL7's undoing will likely be the GM2. Rumored to have a built-in EVF, IBIS and possibly 4K video to compliment its current built-in flash and 3:2 AR screen, should Panasonic manage to maintain a smaller body than the E-PL7 then the writing's on the wall.

Add in the 13-32mm and upcoming 35-100mm zooms along with the Leica 15mm f1.7 prime designed specifically for the GM-series bodies, and Panasonic is leagues ahead of Olympus in this niche. That Olympus didn't have the basic common sense to at least bundle the compact EZ 14-42mm zoom with the E-PL7 is all the more astounding.
I know I keep going on about it, but this seems to be a specific decision for the US market, since elsewhere it is being offered with the EZ zoom (or a choice of kits with either lens). Similarly, the white one isn't being offered in the US (not that this is a huge loss, I wouldn't think - except perhaps for the young, self-obsessed female audience the UK campaign seems to be specifically targeting, for some reason). The odd decisions on marketing for the US seem to be widespread amongst manufacturers for mirrorless though (Panasonic leaving out the likely most popular finishes, at least initially, Canon's self-defeating non-marketing of the EOS M and so on), so Olympus are not the only offenders. It's almost as though manufacturers say to themselves "mirrorless won't succeed in the US and to prove it we'll do everything we can to decrease sales". That always felt true to me of Canon's approach in particular.
Funny how quickly things change in this age of digital cameras. One year ago had you told me Panasonic would so quickly recover from an uncompetitive sensor to a line-up of truly intriguing cameras in the GM-series, GH4, and FZ1000, I never would have believed you.

Just a few weeks ago I viewed the E-PL7 with so much promise, not so today.
It is quite interesting how this has happened, yes. I always thought the E-PL7 looked like it would be a fairly gentle upgrade of the E-PL5 from those leaked instruction manuals (though including most of the E-M10 improvements is helpful), but it does seem to fit into a rather shrinking niche in the lineup. Perhaps the E-PM line would have had a better shot at grabbing more sales if it was evolved and continued, but I suppose they base their decisions on sales figures. Hopefully.
 
Looks like a nice camera but I doubt it'll have much market penetration. At least not in the USA. There are some nice upgrade features but I'm not sure there's much there to get E-PL5 users to open their wallet. The E-M10 has EVF and a 2nd control dial. If you want an EVF the PL5 with add on would be more expensive and bulkier. No big video upgrade. It's small but not really small. I'd gladly take one if given to me. I know it'll be a nice camera. But I just don't see the niche.
 
It is quite interesting how this has happened, yes. I always thought the E-PL7 looked like it would be a fairly gentle upgrade of the E-PL5 from those leaked instruction manuals (though including most of the E-M10 improvements is helpful), but it does seem to fit into a rather shrinking niche in the lineup. Perhaps the E-PM line would have had a better shot at grabbing more sales if it was evolved and continued, but I suppose they base their decisions on sales figures. Hopefully.
Yes, looking from the angle of the EPL5, this is actually a great improvement. Better build, much better IBIS, much better screen, better controls, 0-second antishutter, better software...The problem is most people will say the OMD-EM10 obscures it (and they'd be right, the EM5 did the same thing to the EP5), and Oly's silly marketing will do nothing to improve that... They could have done something actually different... How about a flip-out screen? (yes, that actually makes my G3 a magnificent selfie camera, since my girlfriend is very fond of taking selfies with me, we've gotten scores of nice pictures... much better than this Oly's implementation). Or how about on-sensor PDAF to compete with Nikon's 1 J cameras?

I mean, this is basically the same selling point the GF6 had over a year ago... and that camera tanked so bad Panasonic killed the GF series. =/
 
Looking from the angle of the EPL5, this is actually a great improvement. Better build, much better IBIS, much better screen, better controls, 0-second antishutter, better software...
All very true, by fixing earlier flaws like the 16:9 screen that resulted in a 2.3" usable size in native 4:3's, along with the SS fix, and then bringing over the E-M10's 3-axis IBIS and software, this is the best PEN E-PM/PL yet.
The problem is most people will say the OMD-EM10 obscures it (and they'd be right, the EM5 did the same thing to the EP5)
I think it was more a matter of consumer's picking up on Olympus' $ gouging by making them pay a $200-250 premium for an EVF that's built into OM-D's, then having to remember to bring (and potentially lose) it and/or the flash, all the while not being able to use them simultaneously. Let's give the consumer credit, they notice these things.
and Oly's silly marketing will do nothing to improve that...
Actually, Olympus' hapless marketing may be the E-PL7's saving grace; going by past examples, ads are unlikely to be seen by the general public ;-) .
They could have done something actually different... How about a flip-out screen?
Requires a hinge that adds width and likely complexity/cost is my guess.
Or how about on-sensor PDAF to compete with Nikon's 1 J cameras?
Got me there.
I mean, this is basically the same selling point the GF6 had over a year ago... and that camera tanked so bad Panasonic killed the GF series. =/
I simply don't think there's a market for a mirrorless camera kit selling for $700 that doesn't have a built-in EVF and flash in the year 2014. Too many excellent options, the a6000 being the current leader in this price range. Panasonic seems to get it with their upcoming GM5, we'll see.

Too many poor decisions here, from lack of built-in EVF and flash, to price, to marketing to a niche that traditionally doesn't buy many cameras and in the process turning off enthusiasts.

Frustrating, for as you've noted it has many nice features plus an attractive design, but the above pretty well tanks it for me, at least until the PEN $ premium passes.

--
Sailin' Steve
 
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The problem with the "selfie" marketing concept is that, though this thing can take one, it can't upload it to a Facebook, Twitter or Instagram account without the assistance of a smartphone. And doing that is not as simple as they say it is.

Unless there is a major change in how the app works, using the camera with a smartphone requires you to take the photo, then take a trip to the phone's settings panel to select the wifi source, then launch the Olympus app and then upload the photo. Gee, that's so much easier than just taking the photo with the SAME DARNED SMARTPHONE YOU HAVE TO USE TO POST AN OLYMPUS SELFIE!!!

Why would you do that? For the better image quality? Hey, these folks are taking selfies with dirty smartphone lenses and then smearing them some more with an Instragram filter. They don't care about image quality. And the people who do, don't do selfies.
 
The problem with the "selfie" marketing concept is that, though this thing can take one, it can't upload it to a Facebook, Twitter or Instagram account without the assistance of a smartphone. And doing that is not as simple as they say it is.

Unless there is a major change in how the app works, using the camera with a smartphone requires you to take the photo, then take a trip to the phone's settings panel to select the wifi source, then launch the Olympus app and then upload the photo. Gee, that's so much easier than just taking the photo with the SAME DARNED SMARTPHONE YOU HAVE TO USE TO POST AN OLYMPUS SELFIE!!!

Why would you do that? For the better image quality? Hey, these folks are taking selfies with dirty smartphone lenses and then smearing them some more with an Instragram filter. They don't care about image quality. And the people who do, don't do selfies.

--
Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
I take selfies. I care about image quality. I wasn't aware the two were mutually exclusive.
The may not be mutually exclusive, but the overlap is small.



b9a208c8eabb4ea4896592ab36dd3a51.jpg.png



--
Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
 
seems like camera makers don't really know what to do next

and that's not surprising given the main interests of their theoretical target demographics

hope they find their way to prosper
 
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The problem with the "selfie" marketing concept is that, though this thing can take one, it can't upload it to a Facebook, Twitter or Instagram account without the assistance of a smartphone. And doing that is not as simple as they say it is.

Unless there is a major change in how the app works, using the camera with a smartphone requires you to take the photo, then take a trip to the phone's settings panel to select the wifi source, then launch the Olympus app and then upload the photo. Gee, that's so much easier than just taking the photo with the SAME DARNED SMARTPHONE YOU HAVE TO USE TO POST AN OLYMPUS SELFIE!!!

Why would you do that? For the better image quality? Hey, these folks are taking selfies with dirty smartphone lenses and then smearing them some more with an Instragram filter. They don't care about image quality. And the people who do, don't do selfies.

--
Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
I take selfies. I care about image quality. I wasn't aware the two were mutually exclusive.
The may not be mutually exclusive, but the overlap is small.

b9a208c8eabb4ea4896592ab36dd3a51.jpg.png

--
Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
so, the people whom take selfies are fatter? I resemble that remark
 
I've been an Olympus user since the early 70s and except for the introduction of the OM-1, I never been impressed by Olympus marketing. In the digital years, they simply "Don't Get It".

--
BJM
if they "got it" a VF would have been in body years ago
 
These kludgy attempts to incorporate the selfie craze and deal with the smartphone remind me of the dreadful first attempts SLR makers took to deal with the early point and shoot film cameras, which had everything from programmed auto exposure to autofocus.

Remember those first AF SLRs? The camera makers didn't want to mess with their basic bodies or lens mounts, so they essentially bolted AF motors to the sides of the lenses. They were slow and they were unreliable and they still didn't have the advantages of point and shoot cameras which incorporated AF from the ground up. Eventually, the Maxxum came along and got it right, but there was a lot of ugliness along the way.

Seems to me, the PL7 is right in line with this sort of thinking. The problem is a market being taken away by a new type of camera, the smartphone. Instead of figuring out how to be better than that, Olympus and the others are just trying to bolt some of the technology onto the existing paradigm.

--

Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
 
The problem with the "selfie" marketing concept is that, though this thing can take one, it can't upload it to a Facebook, Twitter or Instagram account without the assistance of a smartphone. And doing that is not as simple as they say it is.

Unless there is a major change in how the app works, using the camera with a smartphone requires you to take the photo, then take a trip to the phone's settings panel to select the wifi source, then launch the Olympus app and then upload the photo. Gee, that's so much easier than just taking the photo with the SAME DARNED SMARTPHONE YOU HAVE TO USE TO POST AN OLYMPUS SELFIE!!!

Why would you do that? For the better image quality? Hey, these folks are taking selfies with dirty smartphone lenses and then smearing them some more with an Instragram filter. They don't care about image quality. And the people who do, don't do selfies.

--
Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
I take selfies. I care about image quality. I wasn't aware the two were mutually exclusive.
The may not be mutually exclusive, but the overlap is small.

b9a208c8eabb4ea4896592ab36dd3a51.jpg.png

--
Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
so, the people whom take selfies are fatter? I resemble that remark
Not fatter. More inflated.

--
Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
 
The may not be mutually exclusive, but the overlap is small.
Frankly, I think it's probably more of a generational thing. Regardless, like the previous addition of touchscreen focus and HD video, I welcome these improvements.
 
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Typical conversation at the top of Olympus.

"Are you sure that gun is big enough?"

"Sure, it will blow the leg off a rino."

"Right. Where the hell is our foot?"
 

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