Final comparison: Sony 10-18mm v Touit 12mm v Samyang 12mm

RonaldRaharjo · Aug 28, 2014

Hi guys,

I'm now deciding on a wide angle lens that would complement my A6000 and Sony 18-105 G lens for the following purposes in order of priority:

1. Daylight landscape + architecture

2. Lowlight landscape + architecture

3. Interior shots

4. Night scenes, including cityscapes and illumination

5. One day I'd also like to take astro photography

Contenders: Sony 10-18mm f4 v Zeiss Touit 12mm f2.8 v Samyang/Rokinon 12mm f2

I have heard and received varying opinions in regards to all three lenses and would like to make my decision soon. I'd like to hear your experience with either lenses, specially in relation to the types of shots I have listed above.

I primarily will use this as my main landscape lens for handheld and travel. My main priority is optical quality (sharpness, colour, contrast and distortion) and followed closely by ease of use (auto focus vs manual, weight and build).

From what I could gather the Touit 12mm seems to have the best optical quality and build. But it has moderate AF speed, no PDAF, no OSS, expensive and not particularly good for video considering the sound it makes while focussing. I don't expect to shoot video much with a wide angle, but there will be time when I need to because I may not have the time to change lenses.

Whereas the Rokinon/Samyang has the superior sharpness and distortion handling, perfect for astro photography but would perform best under lowlight due to its max aperture size. However, being MF it may be hard or time consuming to focus in lowlight as my vision is not that good. And no lens profile. But it's also the cheapest.

lastly, the Sony 10-18 has OSS which compensates for its f4 aperture in lowlight, it has zoom range, quiet AF and supports PDAF. But it is also expensive with moderate optical quality compared to the other two lenses. It has minor distortion on

What is your own experience with any of these lenses?

DimitriDV · Aug 28, 2014

I have both the SEL1018 and the Samyang, and love both.

Cannot decide myself on selling any of the two, although my initial plan was to sell the Sony if the Samyang was good enough. But I cannot, the Sony is so good, and has its own advantages which I would miss...

Both lenses are very sharp, especially being UWA; wide open perhaps edge to the prime,especially in the center, but the difference matters less to me as it is. Also, I'm more likely to crop shots taken with telephoto lenses than I am UWA shots, so sharpness differences have lesser relevance than with other lenses.

The Sony has the huge advantage of being a zoom that gets up to 18mm; I don't feel much the difference between 10mm and 12mm, I find more useful the possibility to get less distored/wide landscape shots at 18mm without changing lens.

Another pretty nice advantage of the Sony is the in camera corrections which are applied to the jpegs; getting quite some PF with the Samyang at times (which is mostly correctable in post, but that's an additional step).

For the Samyang, the MF at 12mm is not an issue, I mostly set it to iperfocal anyway; AF of the Sony is handy in a few rare cases with close ups or when set at 18mm (but that doesn't apply to the 12mm prime anyway). The aperture difference is much more of a deal: F2 instead of F4! Much increased possibility for close up artistic shots (bokeh) and much lower iso for night sky photos.

As a travel lens, I would take the Sony; imo OSS is more useful than F2 in building interiors, and the zoom range obviously is a big advantage on the road. But when I'm not traveling I more often take the Samyang for the aperture advantage.

Finally, the Sony is "easier/more confortable" to use in respect to the Samyang, so it ends more often on my girlfriend's Nex-6, and so we take both with us anyway

About the Touit, all I can say is that having used the Samyang I don't see any reasonable reason to get a much more expensive and slower option, even if with autofocus. Seen the sharpness of the Samyang, I cannot believe the Touit would be sharper, and even if it would, I wouldn't need/seek it. Instead, as stated above, the Sony offers some things that neither the Touit or Samyang offer, so I can defend the need to keep that one as well.

--
Since I got my Nex-6 and A6000 (few with Nex-7): http://www.flickr.com/photos/dimitriv/

MrT-Man · Aug 28, 2014

I have the Touit 12mm and have been extremely happy with it. I can't compare it to the Samyang or Sony 10-18 as I haven't had experience with those. All I can say is that the Touit is extraordinarily sharp. It provides a very impressive level of detail when zoomed in, and it seems to outresolve my NEX-7's sensor.

I realize that there's a comparative review out there which says that the Samyang is sharper, and that may very well be the case, but all I can say is that my copy doesn't lack for sharpness. You can take a 1:1 crop from it and it still looks great. I don't think you'll be complaining about sharpness when you're looking at the output from this lens.

Chromatic aberrations are extremely well controlled. I think it's actually my best lens in that regard. I'm pretty sure that this is one area where it outperforms the Samyang, from the samples I've seen. Color/contrast is also very good. This is typically an area where Zeiss lenses do extremely well -- I'm not sure how the Samyang compares on this front.

AF performance is a touch slower than my Sony lenses, but not too bad (better than my Touit 32, which is known for being slow to focus).

In short, it's a solid lens and I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed with it.

Here are some shots.

wb2trf · Aug 28, 2014

DimitriDV said:
I have both the SEL1018 and the Samyang, and love both.

Cannot decide myself on selling any of the two, although my initial plan was to sell the Sony if the Samyang was good enough. But I cannot, the Sony is so good, and has its own advantages which I would miss...

Both lenses are very sharp, especially being UWA; wide open perhaps edge to the prime,especially in the center, but the difference matters less to me as it is. Also, I'm more likely to crop shots taken with telephoto lenses than I am UWA shots, so sharpness differences have lesser relevance than with other lenses.

The Sony has the huge advantage of being a zoom that gets up to 18mm; I don't feel much the difference between 10mm and 12mm, I find more useful the possibility to get less distored/wide landscape shots at 18mm without changing lens.

Another pretty nice advantage of the Sony is the in camera corrections which are applied to the jpegs; getting quite some PF with the Samyang at times (which is mostly correctable in post, but that's an additional step).

For the Samyang, the MF at 12mm is not an issue, I mostly set it to iperfocal anyway; AF of the Sony is handy in a few rare cases with close ups or when set at 18mm (but that doesn't apply to the 12mm prime anyway). The aperture difference is much more of a deal: F2 instead of F4! Much increased possibility for close up artistic shots (bokeh) and much lower iso for night sky photos.

As a travel lens, I would take the Sony; imo OSS is more useful than F2 in building interiors, and the zoom range obviously is a big advantage on the road. But when I'm not traveling I more often take the Samyang for the aperture advantage.

Finally, the Sony is "easier/more confortable" to use in respect to the Samyang, so it ends more often on my girlfriend's Nex-6, and so we take both with us anyway

About the Touit, all I can say is that having used the Samyang I don't see any reasonable reason to get a much more expensive and slower option, even if with autofocus. Seen the sharpness of the Samyang, I cannot believe the Touit would be sharper, and even if it would, I wouldn't need/seek it. Instead, as stated above, the Sony offers some things that neither the Touit or Samyang offer, so I can defend the need to keep that one as well.

blue_skies · Aug 28, 2014

RonaldRaharjo said:
Hi guys,

I'm now deciding on a wide angle lens that would complement my A6000 and Sony 18-105 G lens for the following purposes in order of priority:

1. Daylight landscape + architecture

2. Lowlight landscape + architecture

3. Interior shots

4. Night scenes, including cityscapes and illumination

5. One day I'd also like to take astro photography

Contenders: Sony 10-18mm f4 v Zeiss Touit 12mm f2.8 v Samyang/Rokinon 12mm f2

I have heard and received varying opinions in regards to all three lenses and would like to make my decision soon. I'd like to hear your experience with either lenses, specially in relation to the types of shots I have listed above.

I primarily will use this as my main landscape lens for handheld and travel. My main priority is optical quality (sharpness, colour, contrast and distortion) and followed closely by ease of use (auto focus vs manual, weight and build).

From what I could gather the Touit 12mm seems to have the best optical quality and build. But it has moderate AF speed, no PDAF, no OSS, expensive and not particularly good for video considering the sound it makes while focussing. I don't expect to shoot video much with a wide angle, but there will be time when I need to because I may not have the time to change lenses.

Whereas the Rokinon/Samyang has the superior sharpness and distortion handling, perfect for astro photography but would perform best under lowlight due to its max aperture size. However, being MF it may be hard or time consuming to focus in lowlight as my vision is not that good. And no lens profile. But it's also the cheapest.

lastly, the Sony 10-18 has OSS which compensates for its f4 aperture in lowlight, it has zoom range, quiet AF and supports PDAF. But it is also expensive with moderate optical quality compared to the other two lenses. It has minor distortion on

What is your own experience with any of these lenses?

I opted for the Touit12, when the special discount deal was announced. Earlier, I was eyeing the E1018, as it also has applications on the full frame A7. Prior to this, I was a happy user of the E16+UWA, and work around its most obvious flaws.

MF for a 12mm lens is not that big of a deal, as your DOF is deep, but you may not like the manual step that you go through for each shot (if distance to subject changes, not if otherwise). However, it may often leave you with this 'could I have done better' feel if the image is not perfect afterwards.

Per your description, the E1018 should be your friend. It has AF, OSS, convenience of zoom, and decent color and sharpness. It also has the most complex optical distortion, but it comes with software corrections (in camera JPG or lens profile plug-ins).

I've put some shots wth the Touit12 here (flickr) and here2 (flickr) and am overall rather impressed with the sharpness, contrast, flare-resistance, colors, and how easy it is to compensate for geometric distortion. The latter tells me that the lens does not have pronounced pin- or barrel- distortion (The E1018 does).

The Rokinon/Samyang was the price leader, and it compares similarly to the Touit, which is impressive. I don't have the lens, and I find the reviews somewhat confusing. Wide-Angle Samyang lenses (especially full frame) all show hefty barrel distortion, but the 12mm seems void of this (post correction filters), only in RAW it is visible.

Flare resistance wise, the Touit tops the Rokinon and E1018.

My take on this:

For the best in IQ get the Touit12 (with the AF as a bonus)

For the lowest price, get the Rokinon12 (with the f/2.0 as a bonus)

For the most convenience, get the E1018 (with zoom, OSS, AF, but slower aperture)

PetaPixel reviewed the Rokinon against the Touit here (link)

This picture makes me question the f/2 versus f/2.8 - I see same diameter front element?

However, the picture above makes me wonder if the f-stops are properly calibrated - can someone do a quick SS & ISO comparisons at different f-stops?

--
Cheers,
Henry

Stan · Aug 28, 2014

The Rok's DOF is so broad that it is practically set and forget focus-wise. It is also so sharp that you can crop to the equivalent of the wide part of the kit lens range just fine, yet have the low light capability. It's a must-have lens IMO.

RonaldRaharjo · Aug 28, 2014

Dimitri, thanks for sharing ur flikr albums. The macro shots are incredible! But are the bees and the critter shots (the one peeking out of the tree trunk) were done with the Samyang?

no doubt the astro photos look spectacular with Samyang's sharpness, but I'm trying to compare the colour and contrast quality against the 10-18 and Touit too. Seems like every Touit 12mm photos I've seen naturally has more vibrant.

Your other A6000 photos are amazing too, but it seems you use a combination of different prime lenses? Could u pick the best photos using the SEL 10-18 and Samyang 12mm that you think show the best colours these lenses could provide?

What are those DSC accessory you mentioned on your flikr, are they some sort of filter or enlarger?

SmoothGlass · Aug 28, 2014

DimitriDV said:
I have both the SEL1018 and the Samyang, and love both.

Cannot decide myself on selling any of the two, although my initial plan was to sell the Sony if the Samyang was good enough. But I cannot, the Sony is so good, and has its own advantages which I would miss...

Both lenses are very sharp, especially being UWA; wide open perhaps edge to the prime,especially in the center, but the difference matters less to me as it is. Also, I'm more likely to crop shots taken with telephoto lenses than I am UWA shots, so sharpness differences have lesser relevance than with other lenses.

The Sony has the huge advantage of being a zoom that gets up to 18mm; I don't feel much the difference between 10mm and 12mm, I find more useful the possibility to get less distored/wide landscape shots at 18mm without changing lens.

Another pretty nice advantage of the Sony is the in camera corrections which are applied to the jpegs; getting quite some PF with the Samyang at times (which is mostly correctable in post, but that's an additional step).

For the Samyang, the MF at 12mm is not an issue, I mostly set it to iperfocal anyway; AF of the Sony is handy in a few rare cases with close ups or when set at 18mm (but that doesn't apply to the 12mm prime anyway). The aperture difference is much more of a deal: F2 instead of F4! Much increased possibility for close up artistic shots (bokeh) and much lower iso for night sky photos.

As a travel lens, I would take the Sony; imo OSS is more useful than F2 in building interiors, and the zoom range obviously is a big advantage on the road. But when I'm not traveling I more often take the Samyang for the aperture advantage.

Finally, the Sony is "easier/more confortable" to use in respect to the Samyang, so it ends more often on my girlfriend's Nex-6, and so we take both with us anyway

About the Touit, all I can say is that having used the Samyang I don't see any reasonable reason to get a much more expensive and slower option, even if with autofocus. Seen the sharpness of the Samyang, I cannot believe the Touit would be sharper, and even if it would, I wouldn't need/seek it. Instead, as stated above, the Sony offers some things that neither the Touit or Samyang offer, so I can defend the need to keep that one as well.

--
Since I got my Nex-6 and A6000 (few with Nex-7): http://www.flickr.com/photos/dimitriv/

I agree with the above, and own the Samyang and Sony. I could have bought the Touit while it was on fire sale earlier, but decided against it because the Touit winds up being crushed between the low-light/astro Samyang at f/2 and the Sony with all its benefits at f/4 OSS.

SONY: I was thinking about selling the Sony but it can go significantly wider than the Samyang 12mm and with OSS isn't even really worse in low light with non-moving subjects except stuff like astrophotography. The Sony can also work on full-frame to some extent, at some focal lengths with custom distortion correction. And it's convenient to be able to zoom to a less-wide focal length at the spur of the moment if necessary, though one can also zoom with feet.

SAMYANG: At the same time, the Sony can't do astrophotography as well. The Samyang's MF with distance and aperture scales make it possible to "set and forget" at hyperfocal in a way that the Sony (and Zeiss Touit) can't do. (However Samyang is notoriously sloppy at marking distances so if it says infinity focus treat it as a guideline rather than fact, same for all the other distances they mark.)

TOUIT: The Touit is the big loser in all of this. The Samyang is at least as sharp, if not sharper at f/2, than the Touit is at f/2.8. (See this review http://www.lenstip.com/404.1-Lens_review-Samyang_12_mm_f_2.0_NCS_CS.htmland others) Although the Touit benefits from stopping down, so do the other lenses. Touit AF is nice but the Sony has quiet AF with OSS and can zoom and costs less. I have not seen any confirmation that the Touit works on full-frame, either. Some people say the Touit's better in some way(s) like flare resistance, color/contrast, etc. but I don't know how true that is. See also: http://3d-kraft.com/index.php?optio...comparison&catid=40:camerasandlenses&Itemid=2 in which the Touit is good but the Sony surprises in that it's not far behind.

OVERALL: All three of these lenses are good. I wouldn't be surprised if the Zeiss Touit had the best overall image quality when all three are stopped down to f/4 or something smaller, but I doubt the difference would be much. So then you have to consider cost and convenience. Good luck with your decision!

SmoothGlass · Aug 28, 2014

RonaldRaharjo said:
Dimitri, thanks for sharing ur flikr albums. The macro shots are incredible! But are the bees and the critter shots (the one peeking out of the tree trunk) were done with the Samyang?

no doubt the astro photos look spectacular with Samyang's sharpness, but I'm trying to compare the colour and contrast quality against the 10-18 and Touit too. Seems like every Touit 12mm photos I've seen naturally has more vibrant.

Your other A6000 photos are amazing too, but it seems you use a combination of different prime lenses? Could u pick the best photos using the SEL 10-18 and Samyang 12mm that you think show the best colours these lenses could provide?

What are those DSC accessory you mentioned on your flikr, are they some sort of filter or enlarger?

You can do post processing if you want more saturation or whatnot. These aren't necessarily SOOC vs SOOC shots but show you some possibilities:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/touit_12mm/pool/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/samyang_12mm_f2/pool/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/2158077@N22/pool/

JeffGo · Aug 28, 2014

I had the Sony and the Zeiss. Some shots here.

I sold both when I moved to the A7R. I am not really a UWA guy so I didn't use them to best effect and that's really about me, not a fault of the lenses. But FWIW, the IQ of both is similar in terms of sharpness (neither knock it out of the park) and the Zeiss, well, it has that Zeiss "pop".

DimitriDV · Aug 29, 2014

RonaldRaharjo said:
Dimitri, thanks for sharing ur flikr albums. The macro shots are incredible! But are the bees and the critter shots (the one peeking out of the tree trunk) were done with the Samyang?

no doubt the astro photos look spectacular with Samyang's sharpness, but I'm trying to compare the colour and contrast quality against the 10-18 and Touit too. Seems like every Touit 12mm photos I've seen naturally has more vibrant.

Your other A6000 photos are amazing too, but it seems you use a combination of different prime lenses? Could u pick the best photos using the SEL 10-18 and Samyang 12mm that you think show the best colours these lenses could provide?

What are those DSC accessory you mentioned on your flikr, are they some sort of filter or enlarger?

Hi Ronald,

In my flickr album I posted shots taken with different cameras (Nex-6, Nex-7, A6000, one with smartphone) and lenses (several primes and zooms, both legacy MF and E-mount), so check exif and tags to know which were taken with a particular combination. Only few of the recent shots are from the Samyang; none of the macro shots and not the one of the lemur peeking from the tree (that was with SEL50F18). My flickr stream doesn't follow a well defined schema, it's just a bunch of photos I took and like.

I wouldn't know what "best colours" photos to show; it's very subjective, and can be modified/influenced by camera settings, lighting, and post processing. So I don't think it would be meaningful. By the way, most photos in my flickr went through some post processing. I would just say that I don't have colour issues with either lens; the Samyang is perhaps a bit cooler and more contrasty, but this is based on my personal feeling.

If you refer to the DSC-150 and DSC-250, those are Raynox close up lenses, just google the names and you'll get lots of information on them; basically they allow to take macro photos with non-macro lenses.

RonaldRaharjo · Aug 29, 2014

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Dmitri. And I'd like to thank everyone who has shared their insights, photos and direct experience with each lens. I am now quite certain that I'd get the SEL10-18mm due to its convenience factor. And some time in the near future I will also get the Samyang for astro photography.

Much appreciated guys

TonyCu · Aug 29, 2014

Well, I'm a bit late with this response, but I rented the 10-18 for a week and made the same decision as you. After 6 months heavy use I am still very happy with it. I'm now vaguely wondering about the Samyang 8mm as an extra.

--
TonyC

RonaldRaharjo · Aug 29, 2014

Hi Tony, glad to hear you are still very happy with the SEL10-18mm

For me a 12mm is actually enough as a wide angle, so a 10mm is the widest I'd go with. But I know some people like the 8mm, that's already a fish eye, right?

TonyCu · Aug 30, 2014

RonaldRaharjo said:
For me a 12mm is actually enough as a wide angle, so a 10mm is the widest I'd go with. But I know some people like the 8mm, that's already a fish eye, right?

Hi Ronald - yes it (the Samyang 8mm f2.8 AS IF UMC) is a fish eye, but I understand it 'defishes' quite well. It is very small and will fit in a pocket on the NEX 5N for example. It is only a bit lighter than the Sony 10-18 though, but a lot less expensive to use in risky conditions (e.g. suspended from a kite!)

This review comments:

"this lens produces images with stereographic projection, which results in more natural looking images than typically found with fisheye lenses that produce images with equal-area projection."

Loading…

www.ephotozine.com

Here are examples of what can be done when defishing and stitching with this lens:

https://flic.kr/p/fPTVo8

https://flic.kr/p/fPZhoT

I have an infrared converted NEX-5 and have seen some great results with this lens. Incidentally the 10-18 also performs well with IR.

RichardLarssen · Aug 30, 2014

RonaldRaharjo said:
Hi guys,

I'm now deciding on a wide angle lens that would complement my A6000 and Sony 18-105 G lens for the following purposes in order of priority:

1. Daylight landscape + architecture

2. Lowlight landscape + architecture

3. Interior shots

4. Night scenes, including cityscapes and illumination

5. One day I'd also like to take astro photography

Contenders: Sony 10-18mm f4 v Zeiss Touit 12mm f2.8 v Samyang/Rokinon 12mm f2

I have heard and received varying opinions in regards to all three lenses and would like to make my decision soon. I'd like to hear your experience with either lenses, specially in relation to the types of shots I have listed above.

I primarily will use this as my main landscape lens for handheld and travel. My main priority is optical quality (sharpness, colour, contrast and distortion) and followed closely by ease of use (auto focus vs manual, weight and build).

From what I could gather the Touit 12mm seems to have the best optical quality and build. But it has moderate AF speed, no PDAF, no OSS, expensive and not particularly good for video considering the sound it makes while focussing. I don't expect to shoot video much with a wide angle, but there will be time when I need to because I may not have the time to change lenses.

Whereas the Rokinon/Samyang has the superior sharpness and distortion handling, perfect for astro photography but would perform best under lowlight due to its max aperture size. However, being MF it may be hard or time consuming to focus in lowlight as my vision is not that good. And no lens profile. But it's also the cheapest.

lastly, the Sony 10-18 has OSS which compensates for its f4 aperture in lowlight, it has zoom range, quiet AF and supports PDAF. But it is also expensive with moderate optical quality compared to the other two lenses. It has minor distortion on

What is your own experience with any of these lenses?

I have shot with the 10-18mm since its release and i love it. A few days ago i got the Samyang 12mm F/2. Anyone wants to buy a 10-18mm??

cheers!

techiecool · Sep 12, 2014

Fantastic shots on Flickr. Do you have any of the Samyang 12mm up yet? the 10-18mm examples are fantastic.

richvosko · May 2, 2017

I currently have a Sigma 19mm with the a6000 but am looking to go wider mainly for landscapes. I rented the 12mm Touit and 10-18mm two years ago but don't remember quite honestly the pros/cons aside from looking at the photos.

I'm thinking of selling the Sigma and dropping the money on the 10-18? or just adding the Samyang 12mm and swapping when necessary for the "ultra-wide" landscapes. What do you think?

OpticsEngineer · May 2, 2017

I am glad you found this thread as it is something I am pondering over as I plan my summer vacation and what lenses to use. Some good information here.

But just so you know, don't expect much in replies from the original people since this thread that is a few years old now.

wb2trf · May 2, 2017

I own the Sigma 19 and the Rok 12mm. I have used the Sony 10-18mm, borrowing from a relative.

First, I wouldn't sell the 19mm, for landscape use. It is sharper into the corners than the 10-18 at 18mm. (I'm attaching the DXO comparison at f4.)

The 10-18mm is very good for what it is, a superwide zoom. It is not as sharp or as fast as the Rok, but it does things the Rok 12mm won't do, and you don't need to change lenses as much, maybe. To some extent it is the old zoom vs prime question, which is a matter of preference.

I like the combo of 19mm and 12mm primes, but I shoot primes 80% overall. I use the 12mm Rok about 10% of landscape shots that I think will work at that superwide angle. 80% of the time I shoot landscape with the 19mm, so the 19mm stays on the camera a lot.

Hope this helps.

Final comparison: Sony 10-18mm v Touit 12mm v Samyang 12mm

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