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Why arent my duckies tack sharp?

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espenfjo

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Hi,

I just recently decided to take up on my photography and purchased a new d7100 with the 18-140 kit lens.

Was out walking today and came over a couple of ducks in a pond, but I didn't manage to get a sharp pictures of them, and I am not quite sure why.

The picture was taken on a tripod (Sirui T-2205x).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayjsawa8o0ietro/DSC_1578.jpg?dl=0 Original picture with EXIF intact. The focus point should be on the rear of the second duck from the right.

Another picture that isnt sharp as well: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eucycj3djlrw2lh/DSC_1491.jpg?dl=0 - This was also taken on a tripod. The focus point should be on the big red apple in the middle of the image.

The apple image should have both enough light, and proper SS?
 
espenfjo said:
Hi,

I just recently decided to take up on my photography and purchased a new d7100 with the 18-140 kit lens.

Was out walking today and came over a couple of ducks in a pond, but I didn't manage to get a sharp pictures of them, and I am not quite sure why.

The picture was taken on a tripod (Sirui T-2205x).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayjsawa8o0ietro/DSC_1578.jpg?dl=0 Original picture with EXIF intact. The focus point should be on the rear of the second duck from the right.

Another picture that isnt sharp as well: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eucycj3djlrw2lh/DSC_1491.jpg?dl=0 - This was also taken on a tripod. The focus point should be on the big red apple in the middle of the image.

The apple image should have both enough light, and proper SS?
Click to expand...
Hard to say what might be going on. The program you used to edit the photos striped most the important EXIF used for trouble shooting. Might try using files directly from the camera. Did you have VR on? Turn it off when using a tripod.
 
This isn't a focus issue.

If the camera was on a tripod, are you sure the VR was off?

This doesn't look like motion blur either - especially on the first image, even the lake shore is not sharp. It should've been, if the tripod was sturdy and the VR was off

Do keep in mind that you're shooting wide-open at the long end of the zoom. Don't expect miracles. Still, it should've been better than that (especially the duck image is substandard to what I would've expected).

To exclude any lens issues, find a static object with plenty of textures (a fruit collection in a bowl would do fine), place it in plenty of light, and take a photo of it with the lens stopped-down to f/8. Make sure the tripod is steady, the VR is off, and - just to be on the safe side - use a 2-sec timer to exclude camera shake from pressing the shutter. If the problem persists, there might be an issue with the lens (some slight misalignment maybe). If it looks better (as is the most probable scenario), the factor is you (which is good news, because it can be fixed).
 
Mako2011 said:
espenfjo said:
Hi,

I just recently decided to take up on my photography and purchased a new d7100 with the 18-140 kit lens.

Was out walking today and came over a couple of ducks in a pond, but I didn't manage to get a sharp pictures of them, and I am not quite sure why.

The picture was taken on a tripod (Sirui T-2205x).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayjsawa8o0ietro/DSC_1578.jpg?dl=0 Original picture with EXIF intact. The focus point should be on the rear of the second duck from the right.

Another picture that isnt sharp as well: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eucycj3djlrw2lh/DSC_1491.jpg?dl=0 - This was also taken on a tripod. The focus point should be on the big red apple in the middle of the image.

The apple image should have both enough light, and proper SS?
Click to expand...
Hard to say what might be going on. The program you used to edit the photos striped most the important EXIF used for trouble shooting. Might try using files directly from the camera. Did you have VR on? Turn it off when using a tripod.
Click to expand...
Oh shoot, I thought that I managed to get them all in. Exported them from Lightroom.

Duckies:

Exposure Time : 1/80
F Number : 5.6
Exposure Program : Program AE
ISO : 100
Sensitivity Type : Recommended Exposure Index
Shutter Speed Value : 1/80
Aperture Value : 5.6
Exposure Compensation : 0
Max Aperture Value : 5.7
Metering Mode : Multi-segment
Light Source : Unknown
Flash : Off, Did not fire
Focal Length : 140.0 mm
Light Value : 11.3

Apple:

Exposure Time : 1/125
F Number : 5.6
Exposure Program : Program AE
ISO : 100
Sensitivity Type : Recommended Exposure Index
Shutter Speed Value : 1/125
Aperture Value : 5.6
Exposure Compensation : 0
Max Aperture Value : 5.7
Metering Mode : Multi-segment
Light Source : Unknown
Flash : Off, Did not fire
Focal Length : 140.0 mm
Light Value : 11.9

Original NEFs (Duckies: duckies.nef Apple: apple.nef )

VR was on when shooting both, but isn't the effect so bad that it couldn't be VR on such low focal length?
 
DigitalPhilosopher said:
This isn't a focus issue.

If the camera was on a tripod, are you sure the VR was off?

This doesn't look like motion blur either - especially on the first image, even the lake shore is not sharp. It should've been, if the tripod was sturdy and the VR was off

Do keep in mind that you're shooting wide-open at the long end of the zoom. Don't expect miracles. Still, it should've been better than that (especially the duck image is substandard to what I would've expected).

To exclude any lens issues, find a static object with plenty of textures (a fruit collection in a bowl would do fine), place it in plenty of light, and take a photo of it with the lens stopped-down to f/8. Make sure the tripod is steady, the VR is off, and - just to be on the safe side - use a 2-sec timer to exclude camera shake from pressing the shutter. If the problem persists, there might be an issue with the lens (some slight misalignment maybe). If it looks better (as is the most probable scenario), the factor is you (which is good news, because it can be fixed).
Click to expand...
Seems like I (And VR it seems) is the issue. Didn't find a fruit basket, but found something else *cough*:MM.NEF MM.jpg

ISO320 (Getting quite dark now at 8pm), 140mm, F/8, 1/250.
No post-processing in LR.
 
espenfjo said:
Mako2011 said:
espenfjo said:
Hi,

I just recently decided to take up on my photography and purchased a new d7100 with the 18-140 kit lens.

Was out walking today and came over a couple of ducks in a pond, but I didn't manage to get a sharp pictures of them, and I am not quite sure why.

The picture was taken on a tripod (Sirui T-2205x).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayjsawa8o0ietro/DSC_1578.jpg?dl=0 Original picture with EXIF intact. The focus point should be on the rear of the second duck from the right.

Another picture that isnt sharp as well: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eucycj3djlrw2lh/DSC_1491.jpg?dl=0 - This was also taken on a tripod. The focus point should be on the big red apple in the middle of the image.

The apple image should have both enough light, and proper SS?
Click to expand...
Hard to say what might be going on. The program you used to edit the photos striped most the important EXIF used for trouble shooting. Might try using files directly from the camera. Did you have VR on? Turn it off when using a tripod.
Click to expand...
Oh shoot, I thought that I managed to get them all in. Exported them from Lightroom.

Duckies:

Exposure Time : 1/80
F Number : 5.6
Exposure Program : Program AE
ISO : 100
Sensitivity Type : Recommended Exposure Index
Shutter Speed Value : 1/80
Aperture Value : 5.6
Exposure Compensation : 0
Max Aperture Value : 5.7
Metering Mode : Multi-segment
Light Source : Unknown
Flash : Off, Did not fire
Focal Length : 140.0 mm
Light Value : 11.3
Click to expand...
Important stuff missed:
Auto Focus mode: AF-S
Auto Focus Area mode "Single"
VR "on"

In this case, looks like the combination of shooting a moving subject at slow shutter speed (motion blur) and unsteady tripod (camera shake...VR "on" can add to the problem with a tripod...element of mirrior slap and shutter vibration might be contributing, also) have come together to make it not a focus issue but simply less than best shooting technique. Was it also windy?
espenfjo said:
Apple:

Exposure Time : 1/125
F Number : 5.6
Exposure Program : Program AE
ISO : 100
Sensitivity Type : Recommended Exposure Index
Shutter Speed Value : 1/125
Aperture Value : 5.6
Exposure Compensation : 0
Max Aperture Value : 5.7
Metering Mode : Multi-segment
Light Source : Unknown
Flash : Off, Did not fire
Focal Length : 140.0 mm
Light Value : 11.9
Click to expand...
AF-S
AF-Are mode "single"
VR "on"

Also looks like more a motion blur issue. Was it slightly windy? VR less an issues here at 1/125s. When using a tripod at slow shutters speeds...best to have VR "off", remote release, a static subject, and delayed exposure to mitigate vibration.
espenfjo said:
Original NEFs (Duckies: duckies.nef Apple: apple.nef )

VR was on when shooting both, but isn't the effect so bad that it couldn't be VR on such low focal length?
Click to expand...
At these shutter speeds...VR being "on" can be an issue but from the examples, maybe just a contributing factor. Doesn't look like a focus issue in either. Use the method in the link below to confirm.
How to test focus

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
 
Last edited:
needing focus fine tune can have this effect. I would check that. Mine needed some adjustment and became notably sharper everywhere :) It is easy to tell and to adjust. Just zoom out to 140 make sure its wide open at F5.6 and take a pic.

Take a pic of a spot on a brick wall at a bit of an angle from about 6ft away. Zoom in on the back of the camera to check it is focused exactly where it should be. You may find it a little too far in front or behind. Then alter in the menu accordingly. Only takes 10 min :)
 
Westmill said:
needing focus fine tune can have this effect. I would check that. Mine needed some adjustment and became notably sharper everywhere :) It is easy to tell and to adjust. Just zoom out to 140 make sure its wide open at F5.6 and take a pic.
Click to expand...
True...in this case the whole image seems soft so hard to tell if focus is on or off
Westmill said:
Take a pic of a spot on a brick wall at a bit of an angle from about 6ft away. Zoom in on the back of the camera to check it is focused exactly where it should be. You may find it a little too far in front or behind. Then alter in the menu accordingly. Only takes 10 min :)
Click to expand...
Problem with that is the vertical and horizontal components often can lock on to an area of an angled target that is not the actually center of the AF array FoV. This can sometimes lead to a AF Fine Tune setting that isn't the most accurate one. Better to use a good flat target (parallel to the sensor) with an angled object off to the side to see where plane of focus actually falls.

Angled targets, for focus fine tune calibration, can be problematic.
 
True :) Although I use a lot of subjects and it tends to be obvious when it gets it right each time. Then take normal pics at longer distances ect. Always nice to save a few old files of the same subjects so you can compare your before and after results. Mine was pretty small at about +3 if I remember right. I was surprised at the difference it made. All shots at every focal length was far sharper. Not being a fast lens, I did not think it would matter that much. I was wrong lol
 
Westmill said:
True :) Although I use a lot of subjects and it tends to be obvious when it gets it right each time. Then take normal pics at longer distances ect. Always nice to save a few old files of the same subjects so you can compare your before and after results. Mine was pretty small at about +3 if I remember right. I was surprised at the difference it made. All shots at every focal length was far sharper. Not being a fast lens, I did not think it would matter that much. I was wrong lol
Click to expand...
Very true...folks might be amazed at what a little fine tune might yield. I would even add that it's not a bad ideal to recheck every know and then...things can change.

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
 
Last edited:
Yup ! Noticed that too :)

The 18-140 if set up correctly is sharp enough for me to use sometimes in the studio. At F8 even the eyes are still very sharp in a full length portrait. This of course puts the eyes at the edge of the frame. This is also partly due to the lens not suffering from focus shift on stopping down. As so many do these days. its a very good lens. For the range it offers and quality it gives I would even perhaps say superb lens. :)



n-219_zps0345f8c3.jpg
 
espenfjo said:
DigitalPhilosopher said:
This isn't a focus issue.

If the camera was on a tripod, are you sure the VR was off?

This doesn't look like motion blur either - especially on the first image, even the lake shore is not sharp. It should've been, if the tripod was sturdy and the VR was off

Do keep in mind that you're shooting wide-open at the long end of the zoom. Don't expect miracles. Still, it should've been better than that (especially the duck image is substandard to what I would've expected).

To exclude any lens issues, find a static object with plenty of textures (a fruit collection in a bowl would do fine), place it in plenty of light, and take a photo of it with the lens stopped-down to f/8. Make sure the tripod is steady, the VR is off, and - just to be on the safe side - use a 2-sec timer to exclude camera shake from pressing the shutter. If the problem persists, there might be an issue with the lens (some slight misalignment maybe). If it looks better (as is the most probable scenario), the factor is you (which is good news, because it can be fixed).
Click to expand...
Seems like I (And VR it seems) is the issue. Didn't find a fruit basket, but found something else *cough*:MM.NEF MM.jpg

ISO320 (Getting quite dark now at 8pm), 140mm, F/8, 1/250.
No post-processing in LR.
Click to expand...
OK, so it seems (as I suspected) there isn't anything wrong with the lens. The advice you got from the others about speed, support and VR is something worth paying attention to.

However, I would not at this point rush to check things like AF tuning. It's a delicate procedure (especially for a non-experienced user), and you need to work on other things before you even worry about something like that. Again, in my opinion focus doesn't seem to be the issue here, based on your samples.
 
Assuming the AF point was on the ducks they are not an ideal AF target. Without more information, including where the AF was aimed it is difficult to reach a firm conclusion.
 
Leonard Shepherd said:
Assuming the AF point was on the ducks they are not an ideal AF target.
Click to expand...
Wow what an amazing crappy camera design if you can't take a picture of a duck.

So what is your suggestion, tape an "ideal focus target" to the ducks head?

To the OP, this "not being an ideal focus target" is nonsense. Ducks make a perfectly acceptable focus target.







--
Stacey
 
Leonard Shepherd said:
Assuming the AF point was on the ducks they are not an ideal AF target. Without more information, including where the AF was aimed it is difficult to reach a firm conclusion.
Click to expand...
The AF point was at the rear half of the second duck from the right, as I wrote.

I used AF-S / AF-Area Single to navigate the AF point in the viewfinder to the ducks instead of the grass in the foreground. It was slightly windy, but not that bad. The ducks were of course not 100 % stationary, so 1/80 is perhaps too low. And it seems like VR is making a big difference.

I will try and experiment a bit with the various settings (Although I didnt get the AF-S point from Mako) and see if I can understand which settings that make the ducks sharp and not at which environmental variables.
 
espenfjo said:
Leonard Shepherd said:
Assuming the AF point was on the ducks they are not an ideal AF target. Without more information, including where the AF was aimed it is difficult to reach a firm conclusion.
Click to expand...
The AF point was at the rear half of the second duck from the right, as I wrote.
Click to expand...
But you are using AF-S so the duck may not have been in the same position at the time of focus lock and the time of image capture. The Red box in ViewNX (or on the back of the camera) is not necessarily what the focus array locked on to.
espenfjo said:
I used AF-S / AF-Area Single to navigate the AF point in the viewfinder to the ducks instead of the grass in the foreground. It was slightly windy, but not that bad.
Click to expand...
That can be the cause of much of the blur/softness
espenfjo said:
The ducks were of course not 100 % stationary, so 1/80 is perhaps too low.
Click to expand...
Motion Blur is liley an issue in the duck image
espenfjo said:
And it seems like VR is making a big difference.
Click to expand...
It may make a dif, but at 1/80s it will be very hard to tell from the effects of camera shake due to wind and shutter vibration....or motion blur
espenfjo said:
I will try and experiment a bit with the various settings (Although I didnt get the AF-S point from Mako)
Click to expand...
AF-S locks focus at half press. Any delay after that and the subject may no longer be in the same plane of focus....because it moved by the time the shutter opened. AF-C consistently updates focus as the subject moves...AF-S does not
espenfjo said:
and see if I can understand which settings that make the ducks sharp and not at which environmental variables.
Click to expand...
Take practice :) Good Luck
 
Mako2011 said:
AF-C consistently updates focus as the subject moves...AF-S does not
Click to expand...
I would like to warn about this general statement. The d7100 uses a delay to refocus (a3=3) by default. Set it to lower values or to 'off' if you want it to consistently update the focus.

Lock
 
Last edited:
lock said:
Mako2011 said:
AF-C consistently updates focus as the subject moves...AF-S does not
Click to expand...
I would like to warn about this general statement. The d7100 uses a delay to refocus (a3=3) by default.
Click to expand...
Very true...only applies to AF-C though and can cause issues when the moment is towards or away. Many recommend setting a3 to "off"
lock said:
Set it to lower values or to 'off' if you want it to consistently update the focus.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Ditch the tripod; That lens has excellent VR.

The suggestion that ducks don't make an ideal AF target is beyond satire.

You just need to read up on the AF system; it's comprehensive. -What mode and settings did you use?



23b8ae9fd93d4230b62218dd87155119.jpg
 
Last edited:
Stacey_K said:
Wow what an amazing crappy camera design if you can't take a picture of a duck.
Click to expand...
Some quickly learn some ducks have low contrast areas of feathers, and that phase detect AF may not perform well (confirmed in principle in instruction books) if the AF is aimed at an area of low contrast.

AF generally works well with good AF subjects, and less well with less than ideal subjects.

Many ducks in good lighting conditions are good AF subjects :) - but some ducks in low contrast lighting are not :(
 
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