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$1k for SD1M or DP2Q

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frankwwt

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Hi, I just want to have people's opinion on an $1,000 budget at this timing, whether it's better to go for a used SD1M (the ones from Japan are so cheap!) or a new DP2Q. Thanks.

I have been a DP2S user for three years and really love the Foveon color and image quality. I acquired a SD14 and three basic SA lenses (50mm/2.8, 10-20mm, 18-200mm) in April, and had some pleasing shots so far this summer. Now I'm ready for trying out a newer generation.

I've been reading all the reviews and comparisons between the M and Q generation, and they are really, just different, not comparable, in many ways. To me the biggest advantage of getting the SD1M is the ability of shooting ultra wide with the 10-20mm I already have. As for DP2Q, it might bring me back to the days with just a smaller camera to carry around (even though it's significantly bigger than DP2S).

Any opinion appreciated!
 
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Scottelly
If I were you I would consider the SD1 M. The Quattro would be much faster, but you're used to the SD14, and since you can handle the slow operational speed, I think you would prefer the SD1, especially if you already have so many lenses. You can always get a Quattro in the future, and then you'll have a nice back-up body. Your SD14 will be a back-up body, but you won't want to go to it, unless you absolutely HAVE to. The SD1 will be a camera you actually might use with your WA lens, which shooting other stuff with your Quattro body. I'm looking 1 to 2 years into the future here.
manaskarekar said:
frankwwt said:
manaskarekar said:
frankwwt said:
manaskarekar said:
frankwwt said:
manaskarekar said:
I vote for the DP1M. :-D
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Actually, I have thought about that. I have a Ricoh GR with the GW-3 21mm converter which also has 49mm thread that I can attach to the DP1M. That said, I already have the GR as a 28mm/21mm walk around option. (I know, the IQ is completely different level...)
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That's interesting. I'm actually debating between a Ricoh GR or a DP1M at this point.
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frankwwt said:
Oh that's interesting, 15 seconds for SD1M, wow... I just timed my SD14 for a kitchen scene and the writing time is around 10 seconds.

Too late now, I just ordered a SD1M!!

Btw, also interestingly I found the SD14 wrote slightly faster on a SanDisk Ultra 30MB/s card than on a SanDisk Extreme 60MB/s card. With the Ultra the writing time was consistently below 10 seconds, whereas on the Extreme was slightly above 10 seconds. Weird...
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mike earussi said:
The IQ of the SD1M is much higher than your SD14, but it also has its drawbacks such as 15 sec write times. It also doesn't have live view so there's no way to check the accuracy of manual focus, as opposed to the DP series which does. But given that it's price is close to the Quattro right now it's still a better deal IMO because of its much greater focal length flexibility.
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Having been thoroughly spoiled by the Panasonic m4/3 manual focus system I did find the DP2M manual focusing less user-friendly by comparison - but now that Frank has ordered a DP1M, that becomes moot.

I'm using a viewfinder magnifier on the SD14 to help my poor eye with manual focusing and it helps a lot. Have to wobble my head to see the whole frame though!

--
Cheers,
Ted
 
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Thanks for everybody's input, helped me made up my mind. Now it's just the waiting time for it to fly over the Pacific ocean!
 
Carlosodze said:
manaskarekar said:
frankwwt said:
manaskarekar said:
I vote for the DP1M. :-D
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Actually, I have thought about that. I have a Ricoh GR with the GW-3 21mm converter which also has 49mm thread that I can attach to the DP1M. That said, I already have the GR as a 28mm/21mm walk around option. (I know, the IQ is completely different level...)
Click to expand...
That's interesting. I'm actually debating between a Ricoh GR or a DP1M at this point.
Click to expand...
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I had a SD1, bought just after the price drop at $2295, about a month before Sigma brought out the SD1M.

Focus was always an issue for me. This was especially frustrating for me because anything less than perfect focus will result in an image that does not fully utilize the vast resolution of the sensor.

My only two successes were:

1. Set up the micro adjust for a specific focal length and a specific focus distance and a specific F-stop, then shoot the lens (always the same lens) at the same settings and focus distance. I was using a 18-250 OS zoom and this method worked well.

2. Focus-bracket. Focus magnifiers were hard to find and optically poor. After trying magnifiers I had good luck just using manual focus and jogging the focus ring a little bit, two or three times per scene. Best for landscapes, where nothing is moving and nobody is getting tired of posing.

Finally, I got rid of my SD1 and several high end SA mount lenses, and bought a DP3M. No more focus issues.

I retain the Sigma SA mount 50mm macro lens and the 18-250 lens in hopes that a SD1Q will have live-view contrast autofocus. Until Sigma sells an interchangeable lens camera that has sensor based contrast autofocus (with manual focus magnification), I won't be buying.

Meanwhile I have discovered the Fuji X-E1, which seems to avoid moire entirely but does not have the Sigma image quality (it has an image quality all its own though). It is my go-to camera. When I want resolution and clarity I use the DP3M.
 
manaskarekar said:
Carlosodze said:
manaskarekar said:
frankwwt said:
manaskarekar said:
I vote for the DP1M. :-D
Click to expand...
Actually, I have thought about that. I have a Ricoh GR with the GW-3 21mm converter which also has 49mm thread that I can attach to the DP1M. That said, I already have the GR as a 28mm/21mm walk around option. (I know, the IQ is completely different level...)
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That's interesting. I'm actually debating between a Ricoh GR or a DP1M at this point.
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Thanks for the insight, Tom.

I know that the focus shift for Sigma lenses on other systems is fairly common, and they often need to be calibrated by the lens and the body, individually... But I don't know it's still an issue with Sigma's own DSLRs. My experiences with SD14 are fine so far, but perhaps it's because none of my lenses are high end or with large aperture. Beside, I shoot hyperfocus all the time so...

I'll see how the AF accuracy goes with the SD1M I get, and whether it affects my shooting style. Perhaps getting the new generation lenses with the USB adapter to tweak the focus from the lenses would help. But yeah, what an ironic device that no other lens manufacture would need to provide to the consumers...

Completely agree, only contrast focusing can squeeze the best out of Foveon at this point. Not just hoping for the live view and a hybrid AF system on the next Sigma DSLR, I'm still dreaming a mirrorless Foveon interchangeable lens system...

Speaking of X-E1, I also have it but not all that happy with the IQ, especially at low ISO. The high frequency detail, like trees and grass, is just not there. Almost like impressionism oil paints to me sometimes, not just water color as others like to refer to. For indoor occasions and everyday carry around, Ricoh GR is my go-to. It's pocketable, only need one hand yet even better control, and descent performances.

With the SD1M arriving, I will have the APS-C 16MP threesome across Foveon, Bayer, and X-Tran sensors. Although everyone already knows the results, I'll definitely do some comparisons for my own shooting style. My guess is bye bye Fuji, and SD1M with 10-20mm & 50mm Macro + GR, happily ever after :)

-Frank

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/60630028@N05/
 
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I used to have a SD15 and had no significant trouble with the focusing. Yes all my lenses were calibrated to that camera by Sigma USA.

My guess is that the phase autofocus system used in the SD15 is also used in the SD1, SD1M, and will also be used in the possible successor the SD1Q.

This system delivers good focus at the 5 megapixel level with very good reliability.

The update history on the SD1 and SD1M shows several successive updates dedicated (at least partially) to enhancements of autofocus. I think this basically proves that the limits of phase autofocus in Sigma DSLRs have been thoroughly explored.

Like you, I hope for a mirrorless Sigma interchangeable lens camera.

When properly focused, the Sigma SA-mount 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS Macro HSM lens can deliver astonishing image quality. I'm keeping my copy of this lens and hope to put it back into use in the next couple years.

For now, I have my X-E1. You've complained about IQ but have you tried the Silkypix developer that comes free with the camera? That's all I use, and I'm quite satisfied. I think it is better than most of the rest of them, and free as well. I set sharpness to "no sharpness" and then fix it up in photoshop elements. Plenty of detail for me.

--
Tom Schum
Celebrate mediocrity (in moderation)
 
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Tom Schum said:
For now, I have my X-E1. You've complained about IQ but have you tried the Silkypix developer that comes free with the camera? That's all I use, and I'm quite satisfied. I think it is better than most of the rest of them, and free as well. I set sharpness to "no sharpness" and then fix it up in photoshop elements. Plenty of detail for me.
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