how do you make living/money by photography?

HS Wells · Aug 19, 2014

Is it hard to live as a photographer for profession in these days ?

If you're job is photographer, how do you manage your income ?

ampimagedotcom · Aug 19, 2014

HS Wells said:
Is it hard to live as a photographer for profession in these days ?

For many it is, for some it's possibly not.

HS Wells said:
If you're job is photographer, how do you manage your income ?

You simply produce images that others will want to use and then learn how to negotiate the fee, so as you get the best price possible for the use of your work.

With practice you will tend to get better at both - but it's not easy - and so managing your income can be tricky at times, as you are basically employing yourself most of the time - to produce images that you are hoping that others will not only want to use a lot but will be prepared to pay you a lot for the use of them.

And since you may not actually know how much that amount will be, until much later on in some cases - as you could still be selling the Rights to use your work for years to come - then it can be tricky at times to say the less - but kind-off fun at the same time.

A bit like playing Poker

Cheers,
Ashley.

ampimage.com

PenguinPhotoCo · Aug 19, 2014

Many of my jobs in my career have been in commissioned sales and I spent 12 years in the motorcycle biz where it snows part of the year so I learned to live on the low end of what I got paid and got used to seasonal highs/lows and months with nearly no income.

And that's the challenge in this biz - I've had months with under $300 come in the door and months with $15k coming in the door. Jan one year is $500 and the next $7000. If you can't deal with the swings and unprdictability (mentally or financially) then you shouldn't choose this, or most any self-employment situation.

What i don't like these days is I'm spending too much time (as a proportion of my workweek) on marketing - what worked last year prolly won't work this year, what got 3% return now gets 1%, etc.

I'm considering other options, but can still make more in photography and it's more fun and flexible than other 'real' jobs.

Ellis Vener · Aug 19, 2014

HS Wells said:
Is it hard to live as a photographer for profession in these days ?

For all who try, it is hard. Most fail within the first one or two years, more fail within five years, very few last longer than that. I suspect it will be even more difficult in the future. Which is a shame because as with any endeavor it really takes about five years to really get on top of what you have to do to really know what you are doing as a photographer and as a business person.

HS Wells said:
If you're job is photographer, how do you manage your income ?

Very conservatively.

PalmettoFellow · Aug 19, 2014

PenguinPhotoCo said:
Many of my jobs in my career have been in commissioned sales and I spent 12 years in the motorcycle biz where it snows part of the year so I learned to live on the low end of what I got paid and got used to seasonal highs/lows and months with nearly no income.

And that's the challenge in this biz - I've had months with under $300 come in the door and months with $15k coming in the door. Jan one year is $500 and the next $7000. If you can't deal with the swings and unprdictability (mentally or financially) then you shouldn't choose this, or most any self-employment situation.

What i don't like these days is I'm spending too much time (as a proportion of my workweek) on marketing - what worked last year prolly won't work this year, what got 3% return now gets 1%, etc.

I'm considering other options, but can still make more in photography and it's more fun and flexible than other 'real' jobs.

PenguinPhotoCo · Aug 19, 2014

well, I know few if anyone these days that is a single income household. And I know few if any that if both spouses can get health benefits that do so. And I know, well, maybe knew is a better term, households with no health benefits.

I know many households with 2 wage earners, often both full time, with other income streams - be that rental property, part time jobs, selling something (origami owl, pampered chef) or doing some teaching (college class or tutoring or guitar, etc), selling real estate, etc.

Some of these 'extra' jobs only provide money for the family vacation or new furniture or clothing, but it's needed anyway.

a lot depends on what you consider 'living'. We have a mortgage/tax payment of $860 a month. House cost 114k 15 years ago and taxes are $2k a year. Across the street is a new housing plan - most are closing at $380-420k with $6k/year in taxes. That's about $2200/month and higher insurance premiums too.
Slight difference in what one needs to make to live there vs here. Their 20% down would pay off my mortgage at this point!

Gasoline here is $3.75 a gallon. Over the state line it's $3.25. That adds up.

You buy meat at the store, $4 a lb for cheap ground meat and $8 or up for good cuts. I get is from a local farmer - grass fed beef, butchered and wrapped for $3/lb, steak, roasts, etc. Much cheaper than most people get away with.

What one needs to live in varies tremendously. Maybe one needs $20k a year, maybe they need $70k a year.
Alot depends on expenses - my studio is on my property, paid for, gear paid for - very little overhead.

--
I don't like nice people. I like tough, honest people.
Woody Hayes

RhysM · Aug 20, 2014

HS Wells said:
Is it hard to live as a photographer for profession in these days ?

Yes, very, especially if you're starting out! Chances are you'd make more money working in McDonalds than you would in the first three years starting out as a photographer.

Photography is generally a lifestyle business as opposed to a reliable profession. Sure you could make a good living from photography, but it's significantly more likely you'll make a modest, subsistence standard of living than a good one.

I guess it comes down to how much you want to be a photographer and if you're prepared to accept the likelihood of a lower standard of living than if you chose a different, more stable profession with higher average mean salary.

No one can tell you what to do. Just make sure if you do chose to give it a go, do it with your eyes open to the realities of the industry.

PalmettoFellow · Aug 20, 2014

RhysM said:
HS Wells said:

Is it hard to live as a photographer for profession in these days ?

Click to expand...

Yes, very, especially if you're starting out! Chances are you'd make more money working in McDonalds than you would in the first three years starting out as a photographer.

Photography is generally a lifestyle business as opposed to a reliable profession. Sure you could make a good living from photography, but it's significantly more likely you'll make a modest, subsistence standard of living than a good one.

I guess it comes down to how much you want to be a photographer and if you're prepared to accept the likelihood of a lower standard of living than if you chose a different, more stable profession with higher average mean salary.

No one can tell you what to do. Just make sure if you do chose to give it a go, do it with your eyes open to the realities of the industry.

I'm not seriously considering becoming a professional photographer, but if I was, it would be part time only for the first few years. I'd only consider it full time if I came to the point where my services were in such high demand that my day-job interfered. At that point, you hopefully have enough business to support yourself properly and move on with your photo-career.

Graham Snook · Aug 20, 2014

It depends on your contacts, your business skills, your equipment and most of all your savings.

There will be times when you don't earn anything, there will be times when you have to spend before you earn, there are times when it's good and times when it's not so good.

Being self employed it's everyone's cup of tea. I was a staff photographer for 14 years before giving it up and going freelance. I have some fantastic contacts, I'm also in a position to get myself many more. But if I started out with nothing, no cameras, contacts, savings or business skills I wouldn't be a photographer.

For me being self employed works well. We have a daughter and I get to spend time with her. I work 4 days a week, so does my wife. I can be versatile with my work to support my wife in her job, if she has to work late, I can collect our daughter, if she can't do drop off I usually can. My wife has a regular income, mine is more sporadic, but it's the nature if being freelance. Avoid a hand to mouth existence, from everything you earn save the tax you have to pay and save some for the months where you won't (or can't) earn.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Blog/news/tips from a professional yachting photographer http://grahamsnook.com/news

TobyJohnson · Aug 20, 2014

As a veteran of the industry, the sad reality is photography is a dying industry, much like your local butcher, baker and candlestick maker.

If you're a part-timer you can subsidise your income nicely. If you're an established pro with 25+ years in the business you probably get a lot of repeat custom from existing customers or new gigs from recommendations that are quite lucrative and don't have to do a lot to "win" your customers.

If you're anything inbetween then you're really going to really struggle to make anything that can be remotely considered a half decent living.

What does the future hold as the veterans start dying off?

Well many larger companies are realising that it's cheaper to keep a photographer on the payroll and own all their work than mess around hiring freelance and paying for the usage rights. Medium sized companies are starting to send the marketing/advertising guys on courses to "master" their DSLR, combined with the increased use of stock photography and the smaller businesses are buying a consumer DSLR with a kit lens and taking photos that are "good enough" for their needs.

Of course there'll be the handful of photographers in each city who get the high priced gigs but the days of cities supporting hundreds of photographers on comfortable incomes are going/gone.

ampimagedotcom · Aug 21, 2014

TobyJohnson said:
As a veteran of the industry, the sad reality is photography is a dying industry...

The need for photography, in my opinion, is actually greater now than it ever was before - if you stop and think about it - but it is and has changed over the years - and will probably continue to do so.

So it's the changes within this growing industry that you need to look, to see where you and the work that you produce, fits in.

Is there a real need for your work or is it really not needed by anyone ?

You simply produce images for others to use, so the question is: Who needs to use them... followed by: How much are they prepared to pay for the use of them ?

Figuring that out, is and has always been - as far as I'm concerned - the hardest part over the years.

And just when you think you have it sussed, it will probably change again - as the only thing that is constant is change according to Heraclitus - who realised that over 2000 years ago

Cheers,
Ashley.

ampimage.com

AlbertTheLazy · Aug 21, 2014

HS Wells said:
Is it hard to live as a photographer for profession in these days ?

Depends where you are in the world. Some countries it's easier than others.

HS Wells said:
If you're job is photographer, how do you manage your income ?

Same as anyone else. You budget according to your income pattern. Again, some sorts of photography bring in fairly regular income all year and others are very seasonal.

Richard Weisgrau · Aug 21, 2014

HS Wells said:
Is it hard to live as a photographer for profession in these days ?

If you're job is photographer, how do you manage your income ?

I have been a professional photographer for 49 years. Earning income to support a middle class life style has always been difficult because the supply of photographers has exceeded the demand for services. Since digital technology has lowered the technical knowledge required to succeed in the craft it has become more difficult because there are many capable part time photographers offering their services while they hold full time jobs. Often they work for rates that a full time pro cannot match. However, it is still possible to be economically successful as a pro.

To succeed as a full time pro photographers have to differentiate themselves in the overcrowded market place. That means they have to offer better service and quality at competitive prices or serve a niche market that takes equipment or skills that not all the competitors have. Here's an example.

I photograph real estate for sale. So do hundreds of other photographers in my geographic area. So I developed a marketing plan to sell my services only to realtors who sell properties selling for more than $1 million. I do that work with multiple lights and a variety of lenses. I have proofs online within 24 hours of the photo session. I deliver finished images online within 24 hours of the time the realtor's selection reached me. My prices are higher than my competition and that is OK with my clients because I deliver high quality work very quickly. They want the photos super fast, and I do that for them. When a rainy day means coming back for exterior shots, I do that at no extra charge. My clients know that I want to help them sell a house. They pay me more than others because of that.

Graham Snook · Aug 21, 2014

There's a cheap book about the real business of photography on Kindle....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B007HBTB64/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1408662092&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX110_SY165

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Blog/news/tips from a professional yachting photographer http://grahamsnook.com/news

AlaskanAWD · Aug 21, 2014

If it were me and I were trying to make a living from photography, I would focus on either shooting weddings, or shooting for marketing. Maybe even start a marketing business, because now you aren't "just" hiring a photographer, but a marketer. It's either that or join a marketing firm as a photographer.

Seems marketing would be the best route, advertising is in everything now a days and if you are a good photographer and great with photoshop, you could produce some stunning images for advertisement.

Richard Weisgrau · Aug 21, 2014

AlaskanAWD said:
If it were me and I were trying to make a living from photography, I would focus on either shooting weddings, or shooting for marketing. Maybe even start a marketing business, because now you aren't "just" hiring a photographer, but a marketer. It's either that or join a marketing firm as a photographer.

Seems marketing would be the best route, advertising is in everything now a days and if you are a good photographer and great with photoshop, you could produce some stunning images for advertisement.

smafdy · Aug 22, 2014

Be better at photography than the next pro, price your services and products to be affordable (we are not in the best economy), and hustle like a shoeshine boy.

DenWil · Aug 22, 2014

HS Wells said:
Is it hard to live as a photographer for profession in these days ?

Not hard at all. As opposed being a "time seeker" living "somewhere in time" ... WTF ... I am a photographer and live in a market viable for photography.

HS Wells said:
If you're job is photographer, how do you manage your income ?

That is proprietary information which I do not provide to anonymous people who are not in my my line of work.

AlaskanAWD · Aug 23, 2014

It seems to me that if a professional in any industry (photography or not) is being out done by amateurs, they are doing something wrong. Either they are pricing them selves out of the market, they haven't found the right target market, or they are unwilling to adapt to a changing market.

You have to show proof why someone is better off paying more for a professional then trying to save money and getting a (most likely) inferior product.

Let's face it, professional photography is a luxury item/service.

You can't exactly market that to the masses, most people don't understand the true value of a professional photographer or at least they don't see the extra cost as being worth it. It's your job to convince them why they should spend the extra money.

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Ambientboy · Aug 24, 2014

PenguinPhotoCo said:
If you can't deal with the swings and unprdictability (mentally or financially) then you shouldn't choose this, or most any self-employment situation.

What i don't like these days is I'm spending too much time (as a proportion of my workweek) on marketing - what worked last year prolly won't work this year, what got 3% return now gets 1%, etc.

This is spot on...along with being able to manage money well enough for dry months. Being an artist in any way (which, let's face it, we are) is all about unpredictability and flexibility.

Being your own boss is essentially working 24/7 on self promotion, PR, marketing, AND the gigs that actually pay. Often times it's a crap shoot. But when you get that one gig...that one shot... That's why we do it.

...but it's not for everyone. This is why I have an ex.

how do you make living/money by photography?

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