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Nikon NOOOOOOOO!

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Well, hmmm! Met a few ladies on a historical tour recently. Two had just bought small D3200 with kit lens. They used them in auto and got some superb holiday photos inside and from atop an old castle. Another lady had a D800 (obviously a superb camera), but also used in auto mode. The D3200 lady was offered a play of the D800 - "it looks really professional but I couldn't carry that, it's too heavy for me". Surprised the D800 lady tried the D3200, "wow this is amazing, I didn't realise how light they could be". Her hubbie received strong unsubtle hints about a smaller camera for her next birthday. Obviously he had choosen the FF body for her!!! (Or himself) :)

Long term FF seems on a hiding to nothing with consumer enthusiasts and the subset of "masses" who use paper weights for taking holiday photos.

Few of Nikon's targeted customer base are knowledgable photography enthusiasts, just decent ordinary folk who believe a brand will help them take better holiday and better family photos. These will never put up with the size and weight of full frame systems, but they want a step up from their smart phones.

DX is even slightly hampered by the F mount which means lenses have not been scaled down much in size and weight. I've enjoyed by APS-C set up for the past year, but just as I became fed up with a bag of heavy film SLR bits back in 2000 after 20 years, I suspect I will replace my current collection of "Lego" camera bits with a smaller sensor system that will be adequate for my needs, compact, light and there fore used more due to the superior "portability" when travelling.
 
Hmm, Ireland eh? A place I'd really like to get to (only been as close as Wales). You're either up really early or really, really late (or somewhere else on the globe)!

There's no doubt about the weight of the D300 plus lenses or of a FF system. For challenged backs it's very noticeable. However, I got the D300 mostly because I got tired of missing the shot. The D300 went a long way towards a lot more keepers. The camera still wows me. There's no doubt in my mind that the current generation of DX sensors outperform the D300. However, after playing with friend's and relative's D5100s and D610s, there is also no doubt in my mind that the build of the D300 and the external control accessibility are superior. I don't want to go digging through menus or have to reassign a FN button to perform a particular task. I fumble enough with a camera without having to go rummaging. When I pick up the D300 after having shot with some other photo tools around, the build and ergonomics of the D300 are great to come home to.

My main question was about the weight comparison since the D300 and the 8XX series seem virtually identical. I've no doubt that the D8XX series outperforms the D300 in most ways (except perhaps for reach with equivalent lenses) but I do wonder why people continue on about the weight difference. As for each camera's performance in capable hands, look at the works of photographers such as Roman Johnston on these forums using both the D300 and the D800 series. Now there is a guy who's pretty much a master of his tools and the art... Actually, I'd be very interested in his thoughts as well if he's still perusing the forums.
 
I don't think a lot of people are talking about the weight difference... I think we are talking about faster FPS and a deep buffer. Also, we have a ton of DX lenses which is why a lot of people don't want to switch to FF. Not to mention the extra reach a DX body gives you, which is great for sports when we need to crop in.
 
Phathom said:
Nikon Rumors believer an APS-C sensor might be dead with Nikon... Looks like another FF camera will be announced.

http://nikonrumors.com/2014/08/08/another-full-frame-nikon-dslr-camera-coming-for-phiotokina.aspx/
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Only ONE FF spec makes sense after the D810 and D610 releases. It would be a USD 1,300 or 1,500 FX D5300 equivalent.

That would certainly sell well at such price and for many users.

However, it might also kill D610 sales, as the D610 really does not have the specs for many (AF etc) and the FX 5300 equivalent would satisfy them anyway.

Nikon rumours quotes USD 2,500, I think that is too much, either FX or DX. For just USD800 more one can get a D810? Not at all, D810 is tops in every manner. For the marginal increase in money, no one in their right mind would buy another camera at close to that money. Any new release at that price will flop.

That said, I think NR has it wrong. My expectation is an APS-C D300 replacement with 24MP, D4s AF and high quality video.

For about USD 1,800.

We will see.
 
Rob Bedows said:
Hmm, Ireland eh? A place I'd really like to get to (only been as close as Wales). You're either up really early or really, really late (or somewhere else on the globe)!

There's no doubt about the weight of the D300 plus lenses or of a FF system. For challenged backs it's very noticeable. However, I got the D300 mostly because I got tired of missing the shot. The D300 went a long way towards a lot more keepers. The camera still wows me. There's no doubt in my mind that the current generation of DX sensors outperform the D300. However, after playing with friend's and relative's D5100s and D610s, there is also no doubt in my mind that the build of the D300 and the external control accessibility are superior. I don't want to go digging through menus or have to reassign a FN button to perform a particular task. I fumble enough with a camera without having to go rummaging. When I pick up the D300 after having shot with some other photo tools around, the build and ergonomics of the D300 are great to come home to.

My main question was about the weight comparison since the D300 and the 8XX series seem virtually identical. I've no doubt that the D8XX series outperforms the D300 in most ways (except perhaps for reach with equivalent lenses) but I do wonder why people continue on about the weight difference. As for each camera's performance in capable hands, look at the works of photographers such as Roman Johnston on these forums using both the D300 and the D800 series. Now there is a guy who's pretty much a master of his tools and the art... Actually, I'd be very interested in his thoughts as well if he's still perusing the forums.
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Hi Rob
If they put a D300 style control layout with physical buttons and 51pt AF in a D3300 sized body I'd snap it up in the morning. Preferably only 16mp. Agree the menus on D3xxx/5xxx are a pain. I was taking photos inside a dark castle on Thursday and from outside and it was a pain setting the camera up for the two completely different scenes. It was so much easier on my ancient 4mp Fuji years ago with memory buttons. Met another lady with a D800 also using it only in auto mode!!! All that weight and not even using its features.
Noel
 
arachnophilia said:
arachnophilia said:
that's the real problem: they forgot about a whole market segment.
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I wonder whether or not amateur enthusiasts in Japan shoot sports. It may be that the Japanese camera executives feel only "pros" shoot sports, and they should be using/able to afford FX cameras and lenses for this purpose.

The only other explanation is extreme short-sightedness.
--
HARRY LAVO
70+ years and (still) lovin it!
A brace of Nikon bodies | All the glass I need | Manfrotto pods and clamp system| Enough software to still be on the learning curve
 
mistermejia said:
Is this freacky friday or what! I'm lost here. What is the point of a FX camera that is in between ALL these existing FF cameras?? Is it the TILT screen? That's it? Nothing new, nothing exciting? I don't get it.
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Not to be pollyana, but it could be this early rumor is incorrect, and that the originator knows the camera will be positioned in price between the two, and may have assumed FX rather than a 24mp top-of-the-line semi-pro DX. I hope this is the case.
 
Kerry Pierce said:
That is very unwelcome speculation and I hope that NR is wrong about it. But, TBH, it wouldn't surprise me. Nikon has obviously spent a lot of effort with FX in recent history. I assume that is because FX has a very high ROI for them. But, I just don't see the millions of DX users suddenly coughing up the dough for an FX camera, when there are plenty of alternatives.

I must admit to being quite bewildered at Nikon's seemingly betting on FX for the future. It's still only about 10% of their DSLR market. Are they really satisfied with that? Is the d7xxx camera really going to be the TOL DX camera for the future? Dunno. Not sure that I'd be satisfied with that.

Kerry
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photodgm said:
photodgm said:
I normally stay clear of these threads, because like most on this forum I don't know what Nikon plans to do next and everything is speculation. However I have been thinking about what innovation would persuade me to move to FF with Nikon, if they don't provide the DX camera I would like.
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For me it would be a D300S body with a 16-18 mp FX sensor and everything else pretty much the same.
 
Kerry Pierce said:
That is very unwelcome speculation and I hope that NR is wrong about it. But, TBH, it wouldn't surprise me. Nikon has obviously spent a lot of effort with FX in recent history. I assume that is because FX has a very high ROI for them. But, I just don't see the millions of DX users suddenly coughing up the dough for an FX camera, when there are plenty of alternatives.

I must admit to being quite bewildered at Nikon's seemingly betting on FX for the future. It's still only about 10% of their DSLR market. Are they really satisfied with that? Is the d7xxx camera really going to be the TOL DX camera for the future? Dunno. Not sure that I'd be satisfied with that.

Kerry
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Don't know if I'd like having the smaller bodies although I'd certainly take lighter. The D300 just seems to fit so well ergonomically for me. I doubt that you could get a D300/D700 type of build into a much lighter body although who knows what may come down the road. I'm also with you in thinking that I probably don't need 36 mp resolution although some of the photos I see here produced with the D800 series are superb although to be fair, one can produce some pretty impressive stuff with D3300s and Canon XTIs. Extra detail and the ability to crop more are features that I would welcome.

Kind of sad about the lady with the D800 used only on auto. I'm sure the camera does well with it but I think the only time that setting has been on my D300 is when I handed the camera to someone else to take a photo and that person knows zilch about cameras. Even then, I usually set a nominally fast shutter speed in shutter priority and then let them snap away.

If I went full frame I'd probably have to get a 24-70 2.8 from someone and Nikon's isn't cheap. It's also heavy and my 70-200 is heavy enough. I've got the 16-85 DX lens and while it produces nice photos and is light, it's not very fast and in combination with the older D300 sensor it can frustrate me in lower light. I've got a 50 1.8 but I do like the zoom range of the 16-85. Oh well, someday maybe... For now I'm just using the D300 and enjoying it. It's still a better camera than the photographer who is using it (me)! I keep learning (and periodically making the same mistakes) though.
 
pavi1 said:
photodgm said:
pavi1 said:
I normally stay clear of these threads, because like most on this forum I don't know what Nikon plans to do next and everything is speculation. However I have been thinking about what innovation would persuade me to move to FF with Nikon, if they don't provide the DX camera I would like.
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For me it would be a D300S body with a 16-18 mp FX sensor and everything else pretty much the same.
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n057 said:
pavi1 said:
photodgm said:
n057 said:
I normally stay clear of these threads, because like most on this forum I don't know what Nikon plans to do next and everything is speculation. However I have been thinking about what innovation would persuade me to move to FF with Nikon, if they don't provide the DX camera I would like.
Click to expand...
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For me it would be a D300S body with a 16-18 mp FX sensor and everything else pretty much the same.
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pavi1 said:
pavi1 said:
pavi1 said:
photodgm said:
pavi1 said:
I normally stay clear of these threads, because like most on this forum I don't know what Nikon plans to do next and everything is speculation. However I have been thinking about what innovation would persuade me to move to FF with Nikon, if they don't provide the DX camera I would like.
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For me it would be a D300S body with a 16-18 mp FX sensor and everything else pretty much the same.

--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44
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That would be the fabled D750, no? :-)

JC
Some cameras, some lenses, some computers
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Probably. Fact of life is there will never be a FX with D300S controls/body under $2,000. Not by Nikon.
--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44
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Keeping things in context, before the D3, people assumed there was never supposed to be a "Full Frame" Nikon either. Many left Nikon in despair at the time ...

JC
Some cameras, some lenses, some computers
 
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Kerry Pierce said:
That is very unwelcome speculation and I hope that NR is wrong about it. But, TBH, it wouldn't surprise me. Nikon has obviously spent a lot of effort with FX in recent history. I assume that is because FX has a very high ROI for them. But, I just don't see the millions of DX users suddenly coughing up the dough for an FX camera, when there are plenty of alternatives.

I must admit to being quite bewildered at Nikon's seemingly betting on FX for the future. It's still only about 10% of their DSLR market. Are they really satisfied with that? Is the d7xxx camera really going to be the TOL DX camera for the future? Dunno. Not sure that I'd be satisfied with that.

Kerry

--
When is it "Okay" to be mean, petty or unethical?
-
my gallery of so-so photos
http://www.pbase.com/kerrypierce/root
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The logical upgrade for most users of high end DX users is FX. I see most DX users upgrading to either the D600 or D800 series cameras.

I do not have any statistics to prove this, just an observations following a very popular buy and sell forum in the country where I live. I believe that majority of the buyers of the D600 and 6D series of cameras are APS-C users.
 
I believe that there are a whole lot of us D330 owners out here sitting on our hands (and our money), waiting for Nikon to get their head out of their butt!!

If there is no pro Dx on the horizon I will probably keep my D300 and D300s until they die. And Nikon won't get ANY money from me!
 
Yeah, there's no doubt that even entry level DSLRs can produce superb results and I'm all for lower weight. The problem is that I also want the quality and the feature set that I enjoy now. I bought a Canon G15 as a back up take around city and countryside while I'm traveling andtouring and don't want the bulk/weight of the D300. The camera does take good pictures, particularly in good light, but I'm frequently somewhat disappointed by the graininess and the IQ in even mildly challenging circumstances. The G15 is very well built and the pictures are OK, sometimes even very good, but I'm thinking that maybe I should have bought a different camera for the walk about stuff. Of course, it doesn't compare to the D300 and given the sensor size I suppose that I wouldn't really expect it to. I would like a little bit better IQ though.
 
I had a D300. I now have a D800 and a D7100. Both outclass the D300 (in different ways).

Do you know what you're missing?

What is it about the D300 that makes you hang onto it and hope for a successor?
 
I have long since given up getting excited and wrapped up in these rumors. I just had my two D300's worked over, hopefully buying me another year or two waiting to see what Nikon is doing. I want to stay with the DX because of the reach factor for shooting sports. Maybe I'm just kidding myself, but all I want from Nikon is a D300 size body with the same layout, but better auto-focus accuracy and speed and better low light performance. I don't need video, 36mp, tilt screens, etc. Just give me a technologically updated D300.
 
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