Is Ricoh serious about the Pentax’s future?

JimBim

Well-known member
Messages
221
Reaction score
35
Location
Kaunas, LT
After 15 years with Pentax I’m on the crossroad – stay with Pentax, o move to a different brand. To be more clear about this I decided to read the report to investors (not only Ricoh) and other official documents in Ricoh website. I was surprised – cameras are a very little part of Ricoh business - only 7.7% in year 2013. And it lives in the category “Others” while Canon, Nikon, FijiFilm putting it to imaging category. When I was reading interview with Zenji Miura (President and CEO of Ricoh) I found nearly nothing about camera business and the future of Pentax. It is expected the grow in the sector “others” only 7% in year 2017. By the way, “others” sector includes digital cameras, theta and …watches. Can we expect something big from Ricoh? I’m thinking, that Ricoh will follow C/N, Sony, FujiFilm with delay 2-3 years with no innovations (except colors). Do you have other sources or information to deny my fears?



d7878cf6bd8b44838d675d86dd268f51.jpg.png

Audrius
 
Before making any purchase - cameras, cars, dishwashers, polo shirts - it's important to perform an in-depth financial health analysis of the companies with which you are considering doing business. Only purchase from companies that are guaranteed to make a profit next quarter or that will remain in business for decades to come.

Either that, or just use what meets your needs and enjoy it.
 
Can we expect something big from Ricoh? I’m thinking, that Ricoh will follow C/N, Sony, FujiFilm with delay 2-3 years with no innovations (except colors). Do you have other sources or information to deny my fears?
Pentax Q-S1 :)

Actually, the 645Z is a pretty significant camera.

Pentax/Ricoh doesn't develop their own technology in terms of sensors or other chips, so expect innovations mainly in terms of ergonomics, usability, software, and maybe some new product using existing components.

I think Sony will be the main innovator going forward, but Samsung is trying hard as well. Sony is pushing new technology like curved sensors, better viewfinders, etc, and Samsung pushing connectivity. I see Samsung and Sony winning over budding photographers and Canon/Nikon/Pentax/Fuji with existing photographers.

Bottom line: what camera available today offers what you want today? Don't buy based on hopes and dreams. Most of Sony or Samsung's chip developments could be seen in other products as well. If Sony or Samsung makes a great viewfinder, sensor, or whatever, you could expect to see it in other products that might fit your needs better.

Eric
 
Well, there are different ways one could speculate about it – and it IS speculation.

The fact that Ricoh is a huge company with deep pockets should be a plus for Pentax, which certainly was less well treated at Hoya, and so Ricoh has given it a more promising home.

What are Ricoh going to do? I don't know, Presumably they bought Pentax for a reason; Ricoh as a camera brand was very very niche indeed, and so I gather they want to go on to become something more significant in the future than they were in the past.

Beyond general speculation like that, I don't know what one can say. Case in point, the CEO didn't say anything – take that as you will.

All the best

Ian
 
Ricoh is a monster company. Somewhere I read that if Pentax would double its sells you would not even see it in the second positions after the decimal point if you would give the change of companies success as percentage.

Do not know why they bought the camera division of Pentax from Hoya. Maybe they could use a couple of patents for other projects. Maybe they wanted to update their camera line the easy way.

All in all I am glad and thankful they kept Pentax alive. They gave us some very nice camera bodies and they added. The development of the new 645Z indicates that they are interested in the professional market which is fine.

They would have the right to stop the entire camera line - it's theirs and they could do whatever they want with it. But they also would have the financial power to make Pentax the market leader in photography.

Most big companies mainly focus on financial success. S the decisions at RICOH will depend on the success they have with their cameras.

My impression is that things were a little bit different when Pentax was this little nice brand on its own. They sold enough cameras and lenses so they could pay the wages and develop new cameras and lenses - but there was no intention to be number one - to me it seemed as if they had fun with building cameras and the Pentaxians had fun with their products. You could see this at their not very professional way of marketing and the fact that Pentax stayed am insider tip for a long time.

Now there is a need for gain and a struggle and hard competition. We will see what will happen - I do wish them all the best!

Best regards

Holger
 
For the record, the "Other" group is not only consumer cameras (Ricoh Imaging), but also leasing and financial. Ricoh Imaging is thus significantly less than 7.7% - but why would it matter? It looks like an irrelevant excuse for a decision already made; but one doesn't have to justify such decisions.

Is Ricoh serious about Pentax? Well, they bought Pentax Imaging Systems from Hoya, with the intention to transform their own money-losing hobby camera division into a profitable business. And since Ricoh Imaging is profitable, I'd say they weren't joking.

They also launched products like the K-3 and the 645Z, the long awaited 1.4xRC - they weren't joking with those either. And I'd say the AA filter simulator it's seriously innovative, despite what you say.

And for this FY they're investing the equivalent of 42 million USD mainly to increase the production capacity for digital camera. Yep, that's serious too.

Alex
 
Do not know why they bought the camera division of Pentax from Hoya. Maybe they could use a couple of patents for other projects. Maybe they wanted to update their camera line the easy way.
For two reasons:

- B2B products like factory automation and security cameras

- consumer digital cameras, and they managed to turn around their unprofitable camera business with the help of Pentax

Alex
 
Look what Pentax bring us for new stuff.
Lot's of for 645,change to optical stabilisation,new patents for c lot of things,new lenses for fullframe next month's, new Q camera and lens next time...
Best regards
 
it'll be no FF lens this time.
 
new lenses for fullframe next month's, new Q camera and lens next time...
Ahaaa! :-)

Plus they give us something new almost every month for more than a year now (mostly around the 10th to 15th, IIRC). :-)
 
For the record, the "Other" group is not only consumer cameras (Ricoh Imaging), but also leasing and financial. Ricoh Imaging is thus significantly less than 7.7% - but why would it matter? It looks like an irrelevant excuse for a decision already made; but one doesn't have to justify such decisions.

Is Ricoh serious about Pentax? Well, they bought Pentax Imaging Systems from Hoya, with the intention to transform their own money-losing hobby camera division into a profitable business. And since Ricoh Imaging is profitable, I'd say they weren't joking.

They also launched products like the K-3 and the 645Z, the long awaited 1.4xRC - they weren't joking with those either. And I'd say the AA filter simulator it's seriously innovative, despite what you say.

And for this FY they're investing the equivalent of 42 million USD mainly to increase the production capacity for digital camera. Yep, that's serious too.

Alex
The plan was, according to some, invest at least additional $250 million(*) on top of $100 million they used to buy Pentax cameras business. Because Pentax camera business part of Hoya, and the camera business of Ricoh, indeed required a substantial infusion of capital just to be competitive or viable -- not even lead in something.

You have accounted for $42 million for production expansion, some others mentioned several millions spent on new coating equipment. Let's say that was all together about $50 million.

Where is the remaining of $200 million? To come during the next 10-15 years?

Well, if that is true, then the OP was in one hand correct because it is visible: Ricoh plays it safe, invests into and releases just a bare minimum to stay on the radar. Pretty much trying to catch up with everybody else all the time. No risk taking. That is all.
  • Re-coating of some of old lenses,
  • repainting basically K-20/K-7 technology to sell to the mainstream (K50/K500), then
  • repainting basically same original Q over and over again,
  • re-badge or third party OEM cameras (minimum of investment),
  • reshuffle internally names of the same existing cameras (from Pentax to Ricoh)
  • releasing new lenses at a very slow pace,
  • still reluctant to fix some important perception issues, etc.
fits the description of a slow, conservative approach with a bare minimum of investment.

To their credit, knowing how to do that is a form of virtue and may please new users to the brand. But it does not mean that it is an end in itself to reassure current users who know very well the state of affairs of the Pentax brand and where it needs improvement which does not come. A good company cannot ignore them and their well founded expectations.

Can we expect them to reveal all what was missing / promised / talked about this Photokina?

PS. (*) Can someone please check this number? It was iterated in some posts around, but I cannot verify it completely.

--
Madamina, il catalogo è questo; Delle belle che amò il padron mio; un catalogo egli è che ho fatt'io; Osservate, leggete con me.
 
Last edited:
What is more important: releasing a brand new 80-160 for the 645, or fixing of the 16-50 for the K-mount? Which one would boost the positive word about the brand?

Or introducing a new quality standard zoom with internal motor for the K-mount and not to rely on ancient screw drive? Compared to other companies' tech, what Pentax gives for standard lenses is ancient by any mean.

By adding a new 80-160 lens for the 645, Ricoh is still (as we do not know anything about an updated 16-50 yet) playing very safe: maximising profit inside one niche and selling a product at a high margin. It is an ideal scenario -- Leica will testify that wholeheartedly -- and much better than revamping of the DA*16-50 which incurs a bigger production cost.

PS. We are also waiting to see all the lenses you talked about during the last two years, but never came out.

;-)

--
Madamina, il catalogo è questo; Delle belle che amò il padron mio; un catalogo egli è che ho fatt'io; Osservate, leggete con me.
 
Last edited:
For the record, the "Other" group is not only consumer cameras (Ricoh Imaging), but also leasing and financial. Ricoh Imaging is thus significantly less than 7.7% - but why would it matter? It looks like an irrelevant excuse for a decision already made; but one doesn't have to justify such decisions.

Is Ricoh serious about Pentax? Well, they bought Pentax Imaging Systems from Hoya, with the intention to transform their own money-losing hobby camera division into a profitable business. And since Ricoh Imaging is profitable, I'd say they weren't joking.

They also launched products like the K-3 and the 645Z, the long awaited 1.4xRC - they weren't joking with those either. And I'd say the AA filter simulator it's seriously innovative, despite what you say.

And for this FY they're investing the equivalent of 42 million USD mainly to increase the production capacity for digital camera. Yep, that's serious too.

Alex
The plan was, according to some, invest at least additional $250 million(*) on top of $100 million they used to buy Pentax cameras business. Because Pentax camera business part of Hoya, and the camera business of Ricoh, indeed required a substantial infusion of capital just to be competitive or viable -- not even lead in something.
What are you talking about? The $42 million is just for FY2005, and just about increasing production capacity (e.g. R&D for new products is not included, that was ~1.1 billion yen for the Other segment, for FY2014). I'm amazed how you could even think of transforming it into something negative.
You have accounted for $42 million for production expansion, some others mentioned several millions spent on new coating equipment. Let's say that was all together about $50 million.

Where is the remaining of $200 million? To come during the next 10-15 years?
You're just trying to hide facts under suppositions and speculation.
Well, if that is true, then the OP was in one hand correct because it is visible: Ricoh plays it safe, invests into and releases just a bare minimum to stay on the radar. Pretty much trying to catch up with everybody else all the time. No risk taking. That is all.
  • Re-coating of some of old lenses,
  • repainting basically K-20/K-7 technology to sell to the mainstream (K50/K500), then
  • repainting basically same original Q over and over again,
  • re-badge or third party OEM cameras (minimum of investment),
  • reshuffle internally names of the same existing cameras (from Pentax to Ricoh)
  • releasing new lenses at a very slow pace,
  • still reluctant to fix some important perception issues, etc.
You're purposely ignoring products like the 645Z or the K-3. That's basically lying about things well known by any Pentaxian who didn't lived under a rock in the last 2 years.
fits the description of a slow, conservative approach with a bare minimum of investment.
Increasing the production capacity fits that description. Yeah, sure...
To their credit, knowing how to do that is a form of virtue and may please new users to the brand. But it does not mean that it is an end in itself to reassure current users who know very well the state of affairs of the Pentax brand and where it needs improvement which does not come. A good company cannot ignore them and their well founded expectations.

Can we expect them to reveal all what was missing / promised / talked about this Photokina?
Promised by whom? Are you trying to set the bar unrealistically high?
PS. (*) Can someone please check this number? It was iterated in some posts around, but I cannot verify it completely.
You had no issue using that number against Pentax/Ricoh, and now you're asking others to do your homework and check what's with it? Oh, boy...

Alex
 
new lenses for fullframe next month's
There already are lot's of FF designed lenses present in the Pentax line up that have no use other than being oversized and overweight lenses on Apsc. It seems very strange to me that Ricoh would be adding more of those. What is the purpose? For years these FF lenses have lingered around only to be used on Apsc crop bodies with the prospect of a possible future FF body that never came. Why are the new lenses not optimized for Apsc. like the sigma 18-35f1.8 ART lens? That would make them lighter, smaller, most cost efficient. I may be looking differently at this, but the Sony way: release the bodies (FF E-mount) with two lenses, and then add 8 more lenses in two years time, seems to me a more useful approach then continuing to add more and more FF compatible lenses and leave them hanging in between an existent Apsc body for which they were not designed, and a fictional FF body that is delayed year in year out.

In short: if Ricoh is going to launch a bunch of FF designed lenses this Photokina, I really feel they should pre-announce a FF camera body. Otherwise I would write off Ricoh/Pentax as a sane company.

Chris
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top