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Sharpness gain between D800E and D810...

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Grig

Grig

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Hi there,

I just replaced my brand new D610 (came from Nikon as a replacement for D600) with used, but mint condition low click D810E (with a little cash on top :-) and really see the difference in sharpness between my existing D800 and just acquired D800E...

The question is - is the difference between D800E and D810 is kinda the same? If it is - I would probably trade my D800 toward D810 sometime later this year, if not - I will keep it as a backup.

I was totally satisfied with D800 sharpness until I compared them today side by side...

Shot with 14-24 F5.6



p1056622483.jpg




p600441508.jpg






--
Real photography - it's just the ability to see what was already created by God!
www.grigphoto.com
 
Grig said:
Hi there,

I just replaced my brand new D610 (came from Nikon as a replacement for D600) with used, but mint condition low click D810E (with a little cash on top :-) and really see the difference in sharpness between my existing D800 and just acquired D800E...

The question is - is the difference between D800E and D810 is kinda the same? If it is - I would probably trade my D800 toward D810 sometime later this year, if not - I will keep it as a backup.

I was totally satisfied with D800 sharpness until I compared them today side by side...
Click to expand...
If you compare the D810 to the D800e and find it's sharper, then you'll spend some money to replace the D800. But then you're still not going to be satisfied as the D810 will still outshine the D800e. So that's more money! That's if, and only if, you find the D810 sharper than the D800e. But in reality it's only paper if you don't spend it, so might as well.

But I will tell you this. Sort of unsupported and I'll have a look through some of my D800 and D800e images tonight. My impression is that the D810 images are far sharper than anything I've shot with either of the other two bodies. Whether it's the sensor, the lower vibration from the shutter ( I hate tripods so generally handheld ), I misjudged AF fine tuning on the 800 and e - I just don't know. But I can crop so deep on the LCD and still have sharpness that the red rectangle is no longer a rectangle; it's a line. And I can crop so deep on the monitor that it amazes me after shooting D8x0 series for almost 2.5 years.
 
Chances are, that because of the better AF system and less mirror slap, you will get sharper images with the D810 vs D800e, regardless of sensor sharpness.

BTW, the 2 samples you show (800 vs 800e): Something is off with the d800: You should not see such a big difference at this small of an image.Did you use the same f-stop? There seems to be less depth of field with the d800.

Markus
 
pxlwz said:
BTW, the 2 samples you show (800 vs 800e): Something is off with the d800: You should not see such a big difference at this small of an image.Did you use the same f-stop? There seems to be less depth of field with the d800.
Click to expand...
Those are 100% crop...
 
pxlwz said:
Something is off with the d800...
Click to expand...
Check these:

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

Nothing is wrong with my D800, it is a very nice and sharp camera... but D800E it sharper and clearer... Its like a veil is lifted somehow, or cheap UV filter removed or so... Sure I can sharpen images in PP, but D800e is still crispier...

IMHO - for me it was no brainier to get D800E and keep $1,300 in the pocket since no way I would call it $1,300 difference... Probably until I see a real difference (if it exist) between D800E and D810... LOL... :-)

I understand AF speed and ergonomics, but for AF Speed I have 2 trusted D3s bodies that take beat every Saturday... On my old D800 for 2.5 years I've got only 17k clicks (travel, studio, etc) while on D3s's over 150K... ;-)

Can anyone compare or route me to real life comparison between D800E and D810?
 
T O Shooter said:
Grig said:
Hi there,

I just replaced my brand new D610 (came from Nikon as a replacement for D600) with used, but mint condition low click D810E (with a little cash on top :-) and really see the difference in sharpness between my existing D800 and just acquired D800E...

The question is - is the difference between D800E and D810 is kinda the same? If it is - I would probably trade my D800 toward D810 sometime later this year, if not - I will keep it as a backup.

I was totally satisfied with D800 sharpness until I compared them today side by side...
Click to expand...
If you compare the D810 to the D800e and find it's sharper, then you'll spend some money to replace the D800. But then you're still not going to be satisfied as the D810 will still outshine the D800e. So that's more money! That's if, and only if, you find the D810 sharper than the D800e. But in reality it's only paper if you don't spend it, so might as well.

But I will tell you this. Sort of unsupported and I'll have a look through some of my D800 and D800e images tonight. My impression is that the D810 images are far sharper than anything I've shot with either of the other two bodies. Whether it's the sensor, the lower vibration from the shutter ( I hate tripods so generally handheld ), I misjudged AF fine tuning on the 800 and e - I just don't know. But I can crop so deep on the LCD and still have sharpness that the red rectangle is no longer a rectangle; it's a line. And I can crop so deep on the monitor that it amazes me after shooting D8x0 series for almost 2.5 years.
Click to expand...
 
soloryb said:
The only way you should compare the innate sharpness of these cameras is to do all of your testing in LV, zoomed, manual, tripod, mirror up, fast enough shutter speed. Then you will know whether or not the D810 is really sharper than a D800E.

soloryb
Click to expand...
Now you are entering dangerous ground here. I made similar comments in another thread in this forum and it brought out the "Defenders of the D8x0 Faith" to quite vehemently defend their cameras.

I do have a D800 and D810.
 
digital ed said:
soloryb said:
The only way you should compare the innate sharpness of these cameras is to do all of your testing in LV, zoomed, manual, tripod, mirror up, fast enough shutter speed. Then you will know whether or not the D810 is really sharper than a D800E.

soloryb
Click to expand...
Now you are entering dangerous ground here. I made similar comments in another thread in this forum and it brought out the "Defenders of the D8x0 Faith" to quite vehemently defend their cameras.

I do have a D800 and D810.
Click to expand...
 
soloryb said:
The only way you should compare the innate sharpness of these cameras is to do all of your testing in LV, zoomed, manual, tripod, mirror up, fast enough shutter speed. Then you will know whether or not the D810 is really sharper than a D800E.
Click to expand...
I'd agree with you, but go further. I haven't found a zoom that can get images from either camera as sharp as a good prime, and I have found that AF on either camera, while good on the D600E and very good on the D810, not consistent enough for comparisons, especially at the wide apertures you need to use to avoid diffraction masking differences. Also, what with the vibrational differences between the two cameras, you need to make your tests with short-duration electronic flash to get a fair test of the sensors' contribution to sharpness.

When I did all that, I found the two cameras' sharpness pretty much a wash.

Loading…

blog.kasson.com

I can get sharper images with the D810 than the D800E, especially with longer lenses, but I have to mount both on a tripod and use EFCS to tame first curtain shock.

If you're handholding, using studio flash, and/or using a zoom, save your money; the D810 won't give you materially more sharpness.

Jim
 
JimKasson said:
JimKasson wrote: I can get sharper images with the D810 than the D800E, especially with longer lenses, but I have to mount both on a tripod and use EFCS to tame first curtain shock.
Click to expand...
Not my way of shooting for sure... :-) But on the other hand - I can get a clear difference handholding with good zooms (trinity), even with 24-120 F4 between D800 and D800E... Honest!
JimKasson said:
If you're handholding, using studio flash, and/or using a zoom, save your money; the D810 won't give you materially more sharpness.
Click to expand...
Well, this is what I was thinking too... :-) D800 was pretty good focusing on static and slow moving subjects for me (no LV) and being sharper - D800E (replaced D600) will be a great companion for my old D800 when I need extra sharp nature shots... For studio - I will be using D800 for sure because of better moire handeling, but for everything else - D800E... (For my primary work though - Weddings - D3s bodies are still untouchable... :-)
 
soloryb said:
T O Shooter said:
Grig said:
Hi there,

I just replaced my brand new D610 (came from Nikon as a replacement for D600) with used, but mint condition low click D810E (with a little cash on top :-) and really see the difference in sharpness between my existing D800 and just acquired D800E...

The question is - is the difference between D800E and D810 is kinda the same? If it is - I would probably trade my D800 toward D810 sometime later this year, if not - I will keep it as a backup.

I was totally satisfied with D800 sharpness until I compared them today side by side...
Click to expand...
If you compare the D810 to the D800e and find it's sharper, then you'll spend some money to replace the D800. But then you're still not going to be satisfied as the D810 will still outshine the D800e. So that's more money! That's if, and only if, you find the D810 sharper than the D800e. But in reality it's only paper if you don't spend it, so might as well.

But I will tell you this. Sort of unsupported and I'll have a look through some of my D800 and D800e images tonight. My impression is that the D810 images are far sharper than anything I've shot with either of the other two bodies. Whether it's the sensor, the lower vibration from the shutter ( I hate tripods so generally handheld ), I misjudged AF fine tuning on the 800 and e - I just don't know. But I can crop so deep on the LCD and still have sharpness that the red rectangle is no longer a rectangle; it's a line. And I can crop so deep on the monitor that it amazes me after shooting D8x0 series for almost 2.5 years.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
digital ed said:
soloryb said:
The only way you should compare the innate sharpness of these cameras is to do all of your testing in LV, zoomed, manual, tripod, mirror up, fast enough shutter speed. Then you will know whether or not the D810 is really sharper than a D800E.

soloryb
Click to expand...
Now you are entering dangerous ground here. I made similar comments in another thread in this forum and it brought out the "Defenders of the D8x0 Faith" to quite vehemently defend their cameras.
Click to expand...
Now, that's just nonsense. NOBODY in that thread you referring to is denying that to get the maximum possible resolution you need perfect conditions. Perfect lens, aperture, shutter speed, base ISO, perfect light, perfect target (i.e. a STATIC resolution test chart) and so on...
digital ed said:
I do have a D800 and D810.
Click to expand...
...than you should know better than making empty claims about the impossibilities of getting sharp images with those cameras when used hand held.
 
T O Shooter said:
soloryb said:
T O Shooter said:
Grig said:
Hi there,

I just replaced my brand new D610 (came from Nikon as a replacement for D600) with used, but mint condition low click D810E (with a little cash on top :-) and really see the difference in sharpness between my existing D800 and just acquired D800E...

The question is - is the difference between D800E and D810 is kinda the same? If it is - I would probably trade my D800 toward D810 sometime later this year, if not - I will keep it as a backup.

I was totally satisfied with D800 sharpness until I compared them today side by side...
Click to expand...
If you compare the D810 to the D800e and find it's sharper, then you'll spend some money to replace the D800. But then you're still not going to be satisfied as the D810 will still outshine the D800e. So that's more money! That's if, and only if, you find the D810 sharper than the D800e. But in reality it's only paper if you don't spend it, so might as well.

But I will tell you this. Sort of unsupported and I'll have a look through some of my D800 and D800e images tonight. My impression is that the D810 images are far sharper than anything I've shot with either of the other two bodies. Whether it's the sensor, the lower vibration from the shutter ( I hate tripods so generally handheld ), I misjudged AF fine tuning on the 800 and e - I just don't know. But I can crop so deep on the LCD and still have sharpness that the red rectangle is no longer a rectangle; it's a line. And I can crop so deep on the monitor that it amazes me after shooting D8x0 series for almost 2.5 years.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
olyflyer said:
digital ed said:
soloryb said:
The only way you should compare the innate sharpness of these cameras is to do all of your testing in LV, zoomed, manual, tripod, mirror up, fast enough shutter speed. Then you will know whether or not the D810 is really sharper than a D800E.

soloryb
Click to expand...
Now you are entering dangerous ground here. I made similar comments in another thread in this forum and it brought out the "Defenders of the D8x0 Faith" to quite vehemently defend their cameras.
Click to expand...
Now, that's just nonsense. NOBODY in that thread you referring to is denying that to get the maximum possible resolution you need perfect conditions. Perfect lens, aperture, shutter speed, base ISO, perfect light, perfect target (i.e. a STATIC resolution test chart) and so on...
olyflyer said:
I do have a D800 and D810.
Click to expand...
...than you should know better than making empty claims about the impossibilities of getting sharp images with those cameras when used hand held.
Click to expand...
I still support my statements. If you want to get the best the camera and lens can do on every shot then you will not get this hand held with slow shutter speeds. Slow being slower than 1/fl. I and others (including some reviewers) feel that 2 or 3 times faster than 1/fl is required for the best consistent results.
 
Re: sharpness

In all my years shooting professionally for clients such as Martha Stewart, J Walter Thompson, Macy's, NY Times, Ralph Lauren, Gourmet, etc I have not once been asked for "more sharpness" - regardless of which format/lens/camera I was using at the time.

Something to think about as these arguments about sharpness rage on...
 
Last edited:
Lisa Kiehls said:
Re: sharpness

In all my years shooting professionally for clients such as Martha Stewart, J Walter Thompson, Macy's, NY Times, Ralph Lauren, Gourmet, etc I have not once been asked for "more sharpness" - regardless of which format/lens/camera I was using at the time.

Something to think about as these arguments about sharpness rage on...
Click to expand...
Agree with you completely... But, when I tried them side by side - D800E is much clearer!

I know its all about photographer, and I was able to produce a super sharp and clear images from my D800, but when you compare things to something better... I think it is a pure psychology... LOL... :-)
 
Grig said:
Lisa Kiehls said:
Re: sharpness

In all my years shooting professionally for clients such as Martha Stewart, J Walter Thompson, Macy's, NY Times, Ralph Lauren, Gourmet, etc I have not once been asked for "more sharpness" - regardless of which format/lens/camera I was using at the time.

Something to think about as these arguments about sharpness rage on...
Click to expand...
Agree with you completely... But, when I tried them side by side - D800E is much clearer!

I know its all about photographer, and I was able to produce a super sharp and clear images from my D800, but when you compare things to something better... I think it is a pure psychology... LOL... :-)
Click to expand...
Of course the D800e is sharper with more details. After all, it has no AA filter.
 
Grig said:
pxlwz said:
Something is off with the d800...
Click to expand...
Check these:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54129234

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54128798

Nothing is wrong with my D800, it is a very nice and sharp camera... but D800E it sharper and clearer... Its like a veil is lifted somehow, or cheap UV filter removed or so... Sure I can sharpen images in PP, but D800e is still crispier...

IMHO - for me it was no brainier to get D800E and keep $1,300 in the pocket since no way I would call it $1,300 difference... Probably until I see a real difference (if it exist) between D800E and D810... LOL... :-)

I understand AF speed and ergonomics, but for AF Speed I have 2 trusted D3s bodies that take beat every Saturday... On my old D800 for 2.5 years I've got only 17k clicks (travel, studio, etc) while on D3s's over 150K... ;-)

Can anyone compare or route me to real life comparison between D800E and D810?
Click to expand...
 
soloryb said:
T O Shooter said:
soloryb said:
T O Shooter said:
Grig said:
Hi there,

I just replaced my brand new D610 (came from Nikon as a replacement for D600) with used, but mint condition low click D810E (with a little cash on top :-) and really see the difference in sharpness between my existing D800 and just acquired D800E...

The question is - is the difference between D800E and D810 is kinda the same? If it is - I would probably trade my D800 toward D810 sometime later this year, if not - I will keep it as a backup.

I was totally satisfied with D800 sharpness until I compared them today side by side...
Click to expand...
If you compare the D810 to the D800e and find it's sharper, then you'll spend some money to replace the D800. But then you're still not going to be satisfied as the D810 will still outshine the D800e. So that's more money! That's if, and only if, you find the D810 sharper than the D800e. But in reality it's only paper if you don't spend it, so might as well.

But I will tell you this. Sort of unsupported and I'll have a look through some of my D800 and D800e images tonight. My impression is that the D810 images are far sharper than anything I've shot with either of the other two bodies. Whether it's the sensor, the lower vibration from the shutter ( I hate tripods so generally handheld ), I misjudged AF fine tuning on the 800 and e - I just don't know. But I can crop so deep on the LCD and still have sharpness that the red rectangle is no longer a rectangle; it's a line. And I can crop so deep on the monitor that it amazes me after shooting D8x0 series for almost 2.5 years.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
A Owens said:
. Of course for reasons only known to Nikon they only offer EFC in Live View.
Click to expand...
According to my testing, EFC works fine in LV and out of it, but it only works in MUP mode.

Jim
 
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