Lens choice for beginner

mattblack75 said:

Hi,

I am looking at making the jump to DSLR from standard digital camera. I will be travelling to South Africa which is a driver for the purchase, but also want to try a bit of general amateur photography.

I can get a pretty good price on a Nikon d5200 body, but am having trouble deciding on lenses.

Possible choices:

- standard 2 kit lens package - 18-55 and 55-200 AFS VR

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You probably can't go wrong with this, it's why all brands offer this range: decent optics, cheap.

mattblack75 said:

- go for a 55-300 instead of the above (not package so at an extra $200).

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More range is always good, you should check out if Nikon offer cheap primes at the focal lengths you are mostly likely to use, the usual suspect being a 50mm for portraits. DSLR + prime = prepare to drop your jaw. So for the price difference get the two zooms plus a prime instead of a longer telephoto.

mattblack75 said:

- a Sigma 18-250 F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM (around the same price as the package)

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Superzooms might be convenient but won't have the same optical quality of smaller range zooms or primes; you'd be selling your dslr short. In a way you're getting a dslr for the privilege of using the best lenses for each situation. Don't worry about changing lenses.

mattblack75 said:

I would be prepared to buy more lenses in the future once I know what I am doing (and what I want to do).

Am leaning toward the Sigma for one stop ease of operation, no changing lenses risking dirt etc, less to pack while travelling.

Can anyone offer any advice. Thanks in advance for your time and help...

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As a travel lens it's pretty good and IMO a better choice than the Sigma 18-250.

mattblack75 said:

- standard 2 kit lens package - 18-55 and 55-200 AFS VR

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I agree with photosen - this is a good place to start. You have a wide range of focal lengths to learn which you use the most. If you think you will want to have more reach, then consider substituting the 55-300mm for the 55-200mm. (However, if you don't want to spend the extra $200, the 55-200mm will work just fine.

mattblack75 said:

- a Sigma 18-250 F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM (around the same price as the package)

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A lens with a wide range of focal lengths will not take the same quality of images. It is impossible for a manufacturer to make a zoom lens that is equally good at every focal length, which means that one like the Sigma will have more weaknesses than either of the two "kit" lenses.

Changing lenses is pretty quick and easy once you get used to it. The only time to really worry about getting dirt into the camera is if the conditions are windy with a lot of "stuff" flying around. Don't let this influence your decision.

mattblack75 said:

I would be prepared to buy more lenses in the future once I know what I am doing (and what I want to do).

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This is a good plan. Always wait until you know what you want/need to capture the types of images you want. This is true for other gear (filters, etc.) as well as lenses. You did not mention whether you have a tripod. Perhaps it is not practical for your trip, but eventually you might decide that the VR of the lens is not enough to prevent motion blur in some circumstances.

Hope this helps.

Susan

I'd also vote for the Nikon 18-140mm zoom. If you are anticipating going to 300mm, a more specialised zoom such as 70-300mm would be preferable.

For what it's worth, these are the lenses that I use the most:

• Nikon 35mm f/1.8
• Nikon 18-140mm
• Sigma 10-20mm
• Tamron 70-300mm

Here's some examples form each lens taken from another thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54091750

Another handy lens that I have on my travel camera is the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.


Sigma 17-70mm

mattblack75 said:

mattblack75 wrote:
- a Sigma 18-250 F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM (around the same price as the package)

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That's approximately the choice I made, years back, when I was a beginner (or specifically, a very similar Tamron lens). I figured it was good enough for what I did, and I didn't need the ultimate in sharpness.

I'm still regretting that choice.

I didn't realize sharpness was probably the least important among the major lens properties. Many of the photos I took, looking back on it, could have been great if only they had a little more contrast, and a little bit less flare. There were other issues with them which I did not, at the time, realize were associated with the lens.

If I were buying a single lens for travel in Africa for Sony, which I shoot, it would probably be the 16-80mm Zeiss. There's plenty of light, and that particular lens, while dim, takes spectacular photos. It's enough zoom for most travel shots. The extra 2mm on the wide end are nice too. For general-purpose use, something brighter, like a 16-50mm or 24-70mm f/2.8 would be my preferred choice (I mostly use the latter). It lets in much more light.

I can't advise on the Nikon equivalents, but that's the sort of thing I'd look for -- whichever is the highest quality zoom lens you can afford going from 16-24mm (preferably 16mm-18mm) up to maybe 70-150mm. Any more zoom than that, and you're probably costing too much in image quality.

All-in-one lenses like the Sigma 18-250 Macro are controversial. Some love them. Others don't. You will give up some image quality especially at the long end. Some find the loss in IQ to be too much. Others don't. I don't know if you will be happy with any all-in-one, but no one can be sure that you won't be.

I have a Sigma 18-200 Macro OS HSM that I like a lot, but I look at it as an addition to my lenses, not a replacement for them. There are time when I use it, and there are times when I use my Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS HSM, Sigma 50-150 f/2.8 HSM, and/or my Nikon 55-300 VR. The choice depends on the subjects and the circumstances.

I know several people who have gone to Africa to shoot the animals. A potential problem is dust in the air. The jeep or truck can kick up a lot of dust making changing lenses a problem. You could keep the 55-200 or better still the 55-300 on the camera, but sometime the animals come very close and a wider angle is needed. To handle this, you could use the Sigma 18-250 or you can use a second camera for the wide shots. The second camera could even be a good P&S. It's worth having a good P&S or high end compact anyway for those time when you don't want to carry your DSLR.

For animals… the longest lens possible. Even with my 200mm I end up cropping the image. Go for the 55-300.

I agree about the limitations of the super zooms. I used one when I was a DSLR beginner and I now regret it. When I revisited my images of ptarmigans in the Rockies, I found they are not as sharp I as wish they were since I wanted to print enlargements of them. (Also the lens was 200mm and I had to do a fair bit of cropping) My super zoom has been idle for 3 years now. Time to get rid of it.

When I'm hiking in the mountains, I find I only needed 2 lenses. A wide angle (14mm) and a telephoto zoom (55-200). At camp or in town a short zoom is nice (18-55). I keep the long lens on most of the time for quick shots of animals. When I'm shooting scenics, I have plenty of time to change on the 14mm.

For dust problems, I do have a blower brush and sensor swabs. Since I'm using a mirrorless, access to clean the sensor is easy. A good suggestion from a friends that shoots motocross races is to use a film changing bag to swap lenses:


Of course this is in an extremely harsh, dusty environment.

Just a minor point: Africa does not imply safari. It'd be kind of like advising someone going to the US on shooting photos of Times Square.

I've been to Africa many times. I've never been on a safari, or even been in the right parts of Africa. What I saw was much more interesting than a safari, and I got a number of unique photos. If I went South, I'd probably do a safari for the hell of it, if time permitted, but it certainly wouldn't be the highlight of the trip. If did go on a safari, I wouldn't bother shooting photos; If I really needed a photo of a lion, I could just get postcards, find something on flickr, or just grab one from wikipedia.

Thank you to all for your replies and your advice.

To clarify, we are going to South Africa for business (Cape Town). We will be in the Cape Town area for about 2 weeks with plenty of time to look around and go further afield. We have also taken the opportunity to go on Safari for 5 nights.

My wife and I are interested in getting more involved in photography, but thus far have only had a point and shoot. I thought that this trip to Africa would be a good excuse to move to DSLR. We will bring both DSLR and P&S. We are not going for photography only, but with 10 safari drives and afternoons spent at private lodges, plus the vistas of the Cape, we should have ample time to experiment.

I ended up buying a Nikon D5200, with a pair of 18-55 and 55-300 A-FS DX OS lenses plus accessories for a very good price (a touch over AU$1k).

We are travelling in Nov, so have around 3 and a half months to make some mistakes and get familiar with the equipment. And in any case, you have got to start somewhere. We have a property in the country, so will head there a couple of times to test out the equipment in a somewhat similar (maybe) environment...

Thank you again, particularly with the advice about not expecting too much from our novice status. At very least we will have auto mode and the P&S, and I will try to sign up for some lessons.

Mattblack

There are good books, DVDs, and videos for beginners. My favorite book is, "National Geographic Complete Photography", but there are other good ones as well. I hear that there are good videos on YouTube. National Geographic's website also has a lot of good photography tips and ideas.

mattblack75 said:

Thank you to all for your replies and your advice.

To clarify, we are going to South Africa for business (Cape Town). We will be in the Cape Town area for about 2 weeks with plenty of time to look around and go further afield. We have also taken the opportunity to go on Safari for 5 nights.

My wife and I are interested in getting more involved in photography, but thus far have only had a point and shoot. I thought that this trip to Africa would be a good excuse to move to DSLR. We will bring both DSLR and P&S. We are not going for photography only, but with 10 safari drives and afternoons spent at private lodges, plus the vistas of the Cape, we should have ample time to experiment.

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Sounds like you are going to have a wonderful time!

mattblack75 said:

I ended up buying a Nikon D5200, with a pair of 18-55 and 55-300 A-FS DX OS lenses plus accessories for a very good price (a touch over AU$1k).

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I think you made a good choice. Those lenses are quite decent, and cover a good range of focal lengths.

mattblack75 said:

We are travelling in Nov, so have around 3 and a half months to make some mistakes and get familiar with the equipment. And in any case, you have got to start somewhere. We have a property in the country, so will head there a couple of times to test out the equipment in a somewhat similar (maybe) environment...

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Read the camera manual more than once. Experiment with different functions to understand what the camera can do. The learning curve is steep, but not impossible. I also went from a point-and-shoot to a DSLR, and my approach was to shoot only in full manual at first. Later I tried out the different modes, using Aperture-priority for a while. Now I shoot in Manual with AF most of the time. Once you get used to controlling the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, I am sure you will enjoy the difference in the results from what is achieved when letting the camera make all the decisions.

Make sure you learn the relationship between aperture and depth of field, and how shutter speed and flash can affect the sharpness of the image. Remember that the camera, when allowed to make its own choices, will try to average the exposure, seeking neutral gray. It has a hard time getting it right when the light is very bright, creating a high contrast situation.

mattblack75 said:

Thank you again, particularly with the advice about not expecting too much from our novice status. At very least we will have auto mode and the P&S, and I will try to sign up for some lessons.

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Actually, since you have been taking pictures for quite a while with the P&S, you already know what kind of photos you are capable of capturing. The main thing that has changed is that now you are "in charge" of more than just composition! Lessons are a good place to start, because you have a person in front of you who can offer suggestions and answer questions. There are also many good resources online. Find tutorials on Cambridge in Colour and on Digital Photography School, among others.

The main thing is to relax and enjoy yourself!

Have fun!

Susan

GreenMountainGirl said:

Read the camera manual more than once. Experiment with different functions to understand what the camera can do. The learning curve is steep, but not impossible. I also went from a point-and-shoot to a DSLR, and my approach was to shoot only in full manual at first. Later I tried out the different modes, using Aperture-priority for a while. Now I shoot in Manual with AF most of the time. Once you get used to controlling the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, I am sure you will enjoy the difference in the results from what is achieved when letting the camera make all the decisions.

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I'm interested in the various approaches that people take when using one of the more capable cameras for the first time. If I remember from some of your other posts, you have a D7000?

Why do you think that manual mode was helpful when you were starting? When you say manual mode, were you looking at the exposure indicator as you were manipulating the controls? I frankly don't see the point of manual mode if it's just an exercise in finding out about aperture and shutter speed. I've always said that it should only take a few minutes to scope out two fairly easy controls, and a couple of minutes more to learn about the optimum settings for various scenes.

My first digital camera spent its life in Program mode and my photography didn't suffer, because of the intelligent use of EC. With that particular "super-zoom", P mode was virtually the same as Aperture priority.

Aperture priority works well for me with my DSLR cameras, with occasional excursions to SS priority when appropriate. With the various automated options, my DSLRs are virtually P&S cameras, and I don't think that there's a problem with that.

I have friend who is a self-confessed Luddite, and when the subject of photography comes up, all he does is make grumbling noises about "doing it all manually"; I think he is suspicious of his wife's Canon DSLR because there's so much automation.

LynniePad said:

GreenMountainGirl said:

Read the camera manual more than once. Experiment with different functions to understand what the camera can do. The learning curve is steep, but not impossible. I also went from a point-and-shoot to a DSLR, and my approach was to shoot only in full manual at first. Later I tried out the different modes, using Aperture-priority for a while. Now I shoot in Manual with AF most of the time. Once you get used to controlling the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, I am sure you will enjoy the difference in the results from what is achieved when letting the camera make all the decisions.

Click to expand...

I'm interested in the various approaches that people take when using one of the more capable cameras for the first time. If I remember from some of your other posts, you have a D7000?

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Yes, I have the D7000. This was my first DSLR after using a P&S for several years.

LynniePad said:

Why do you think that manual mode was helpful when you were starting? When you say manual mode, were you looking at the exposure indicator as you were manipulating the controls? I frankly don't see the point of manual mode if it's just an exercise in finding out about aperture and shutter speed. I've always said that it should only take a few minutes to scope out two fairly easy controls, and a couple of minutes more to learn about the optimum settings for various scenes.

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The reason I went to manual is to completely get away from automation. Yes, I wanted to gain better understanding of aperture, shutter speed, and ISO. I wanted to learn how they interact. And then there were the effects on depth of field. Although the camera can do all of that for me, I was not satisfied with the camera's "decision" in many instances. This meant I needed to learn how to counteract the problems encountered, such as very high contrast which would not render optimal exposures.

LynniePad said:

My first digital camera spent its life in Program mode and my photography didn't suffer, because of the intelligent use of EC. With that particular "super-zoom", P mode was virtually the same as Aperture priority.

Aperture priority works well for me with my DSLR cameras, with occasional excursions to SS priority when appropriate. With the various automated options, my DSLRs are virtually P&S cameras, and I don't think that there's a problem with that.

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Aperture-priority is indeed a very useful and effective function to use. But even that can fail to provide the best results in some situations. This is why I like to use AF-on with Manual. Then I can over-expose or under-expose according to the light. SS works OK as well, as long as the light and the lens used can work together.

I think the difference between our approaches has to do with how we think. You are happy to let the camera do a lot of the work because the results are what you are looking for. I prefer to gain understanding of the components of decision-making so I CAN do it myself if I wish. In other situations, such as when things are moving too quickly for "fiddling" with controls, automation is a blessing! At this point, I switch around between the different modes, depending on the situation.

Hope this answers your question.

Susan

GreenMountainGirl said:

LynniePad said:

I'm interested in the various approaches that people take when using one of the more capable cameras for the first time.

Click to expand...

I think the difference between our approaches has to do with how we think. You are happy to let the camera do a lot of the work because the results are what you are looking for. I prefer to gain understanding of the components of decision-making so I CAN do it myself if I wish. In other situations, such as when things are moving too quickly for "fiddling" with controls, automation is a blessing! At this point, I switch around between the different modes, depending on the situation.

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I was more interested in the approach that might be the most suitable for a beginner. I have a good appreciation of the parameters, and am more than capable of doing it manually if I wished, but I prefer to get the desired result automatically (or rather, semi-automatically in the case of A or SS modes).

I have set up two "User Modes" on my camera, and switching between those selects either A or SS priority with detailed customisations for each mode. The intellectual effort involved in setting up the camera in this way far exceeds the basics required for understanding "manual settings". The end result is that my camera is virtually P&S for either landscape or sports/wildlife, and there's no shame in that.

I'm pretty sure that the D7000 has U1/U2 user modes; do you use them?

mattblack75 said:

Hi,

I am looking at making the jump to DSLR from standard digital camera. I will be travelling to South Africa which is a driver for the purchase, but also want to try a bit of general amateur photography.

I can get a pretty good price on a Nikon d5200 body, but am having trouble deciding on lenses.

Possible choices:

- standard 2 kit lens package - 18-55 and 55-200 AFS VR

- go for a 55-300 instead of the above (not package so at an extra $200).

- a Sigma 18-250 F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM (around the same price as the package)

I would be prepared to buy more lenses in the future once I know what I am doing (and what I want to do).

Am leaning toward the Sigma for one stop ease of operation, no changing lenses risking dirt etc, less to pack while travelling.

Can anyone offer any advice. Thanks in advance for your time and help...

Click to expand...

if you are not familiar with using a DSLR and this is an out of the ordinary trip I would not get a DSLR. They are complicated cameras to get the most out of and when you are on vacation, especially with other people you do not have time to fiddle. You are going to wind up missing a lot of shots and honestly, a DSLR is a pain in the neck (literally) to take on a travel vacation.

I would recommend a large sensor high end point n shoot with a medium zoom range.

Tedolph

LynniePad said:

GreenMountainGirl said:

LynniePad said:

I'm interested in the various approaches that people take when using one of the more capable cameras for the first time.

Click to expand...

I think the difference between our approaches has to do with how we think. You are happy to let the camera do a lot of the work because the results are what you are looking for. I prefer to gain understanding of the components of decision-making so I CAN do it myself if I wish. In other situations, such as when things are moving too quickly for "fiddling" with controls, automation is a blessing! At this point, I switch around between the different modes, depending on the situation.

Click to expand...

I was more interested in the approach that might be the most suitable for a beginner. I have a good appreciation of the parameters, and am more than capable of doing it manually if I wished, but I prefer to get the desired result automatically (or rather, semi-automatically in the case of A or SS modes).

Click to expand...

Sounds like you are agreeing with what I said - that we approach the camera based on how we think. And when I went to manual only, I WAS a beginner! As I said, this was my first DSLR and I had been letting the camera make all the choices for a long time. For me, there was no point in owning a camera with complex capabilities if I did not understand them.

LynniePad said:

I have set up two "User Modes" on my camera, and switching between those selects either A or SS priority with detailed customisations for each mode. The intellectual effort involved in setting up the camera in this way far exceeds the basics required for understanding "manual settings". The end result is that my camera is virtually P&S for either landscape or sports/wildlife, and there's no shame in that.

Click to expand...

I agree, there is no shame in using the user modes. It is very convenient and works well. Your effort expended in putting together combinations that work consistently is to be commended. However, now you are speaking not as someone interested the beginner's approach, but as one who is touting their own methodology!

LynniePad said:

I'm pretty sure that the D7000 has U1/U2 user modes; do you use them?

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Yes, my camera has these modes, and no, I do not use them. Just a matter of preference on my part.

Hope I have answered your questions sufficiently.

Susan

As a beginner, I am sure any of these lenses will suit you well. I would recommend picking up a Nikon 50mm 1.8G prime lens as well, just for the learning experience and superior optics of it, when compared to zooms. It's only $200 and you may be able to buy one (or the 1.8D) used for less.

Have fun!!!

GreenMountainGirl said:

LynniePad said:

I have set up two "User Modes" on my camera, and switching between those selects either A or SS priority with detailed customisations for each mode.

Click to expand...

I agree, there is no shame in using the user modes. It is very convenient and works well. Your effort expended in putting together combinations that work consistently is to be commended. However, now you are speaking not as someone interested the beginner's approach, but as one who is touting their own methodology!

GreenMountainGirl said:

I'm pretty sure that the D7000 has U1/U2 user modes; do you use them?

Click to expand...

Yes, my camera has these modes, and no, I do not use them. Just a matter of preference on my part.

Click to expand...

Not so much touting a particular methodology as pointing out a feature that is sometimes not used because it is so poorly described in the User Manual.

I think you are confusing "User Modes" with pre-set "Scene Modes".

Switching my camera to U1, for example, sets up the camera in "Landscape" mode, with all the pre-sets and customisations that are appropriate. Switching to U2, on the other hand, configures the camera for "Sports" with a completely different set of parameters

Changing the camera between these extremes would otherwise require at least a dozen menu operations.

The User Manual describes the basics of this, but does not include some important information, including the fact that U1/U2 base settings can be easily updated if that is necessary.

By selecting U1/U2 at start-up, you are sure that the camera is back to scratch you can then modify the settings for a particular circumstance. I will send you a PM with the details to see what you make of them.

Using U1 and U2 will transform the usability of the camera. Highly recommended.