X-S1 - why no mention as contender to FZ1000

Seeing some of the superb images taken by X-S1 owners being posted on Flickr I wonder why the X-S1 is not being mentioned as a viable and much cheaper alternative to the FZ1000.

The X-S1 is currently available on Amazon UK for £229.99, the FZ will be £520 more at launch and given demand may hold that price for some time.

I know there were issues with the X-S1 but believe they are now largely resolved, so why is the X-S1 not being held up as an alternative to the FZ1000 and the RX10 ?

It may lack some features but in terms of IQ is the X-S1 still worth getting?

I will tell you why...the cam should have never hit the shelves in its original form,,not convinced it was any better in its current form,,i"ve not seen any long end results to impress me,,i wanted to buy this cam but after trying out at 3 different stores i realized the cam was not worth my hard earned...I myself noted 3 big issues before i read reviews and forums,such as the worst lens droop i have ever seen,,,that ridiculous autofocus pause when you half press,,overexposure from standard...then there was orbs,,blue smudges and soft images at the long end...im sure i"ve missed somethink too!!...is that enough reasons for ya..!! simply put,,the xs-1 is not in the same league as the fz1000 or the rx10,,but now is the time for fuji to release a rival to the two one inch sensored cams...

Thanks for the reply which is pretty much what has been standard fare for comments/criticism of the X-S1 since launch.

What I am always puzzled by is how some users seem to get amazing results out of cameras that are alleged to be garbage.

On Flickr I see images taken with an X-S1 in one of my favourite groups and they are eye catching for colour rendition and detail. It is because of these images that I ask the question

I shoot with an olympus em-5 with the 75-300 mm mark ll ,,primary interest is bird photography,,i look at images at the long end and of birds,,i know the kind of detail to look for...I have just been on flikr to look for some good bird images,,wild birds that is,,I didnt find any good images especially once you look at original size,,images at the shorter focal lengths do look pretty good though,,but as i say ,,i"ve yet to see a good wild bird image...

Donald M Mackinnon said:

Seeing some of the superb images taken by X-S1 owners being posted on Flickr I wonder why the X-S1 is not being mentioned as a viable and much cheaper alternative to the FZ1000.

The X-S1 is currently available on Amazon UK for £229.99, the FZ will be £520 more at launch and given demand may hold that price for some time.

I know there were issues with the X-S1 but believe they are now largely resolved, so why is the X-S1 not being held up as an alternative to the FZ1000 and the RX10 ?

It may lack some features but in terms of IQ is the X-S1 still worth getting?

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As mentioned below already, superzoom cams are popular for birders so in this regard, the X-S1 is somewhat short (still better than FZ200 and other HS like HS30/35) than SX50 or HS50 which has longer FL (thus will provide more feather detail) and sharper lens. X-S1 AF and STS time are also slower than HS50 too.

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Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joms_birding
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I response I am at the other end of how I use my cameras, doing 90% of my shooting using the wide end at base ISO.

Donald M Mackinnon said:

I response I am at the other end of how I use my cameras, doing 90% of my shooting using the wide end at base ISO.

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Better get a pocketable or semi with short zoom like X20, LX7, G16 or P7800.

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Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joms_birding
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J o m s said:

Donald M Mackinnon said:

I response I am at the other end of how I use my cameras, doing 90% of my shooting using the wide end at base ISO.

Click to expand...

Better get a pocketable or semi with short zoom like X20, LX7, G16 or P7800.

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Donald didn't say that 100% of his photos use the wide end of the zoom range. For the 10% of his shooting that uses the long focal lengths, the X20, LX7, G16 and P7800 would get zero percent of those shots. Once again your answer is flawed, but you did post your reply quickly. Too quickly it appears.

photoreddi said:

J o m s said:

Donald M Mackinnon said:

I response I am at the other end of how I use my cameras, doing 90% of my shooting using the wide end at base ISO.

Click to expand...

Better get a pocketable or semi with short zoom like X20, LX7, G16 or P7800.

Click to expand...

Donald didn't say that 100% of his photos use the wide end of the zoom range. For the 10% of his shooting that uses the long focal lengths, the X20, LX7, G16 and P7800 would get zero percent of those shots. Once again your answer is flawed, but you did post your reply quickly. Too quickly it appears.

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And once again, you jumped quickly to attack me and my post. Did it ever occur to you that you can buy a superzoom to take care of the longer FL?

HS50 for my serious birding, X20 for wide and low-light shots, X20+TC for mid-range static and B(Bird, Bee, Balloon, Baseball etc.)IF shots.

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Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joms_birding
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X-S1 images look great when downsampled to 2-3 megapixels. There are simply no details above that limit. In other words : having 6 megapixel output from X-S1, you can freely downsample to 3 megapixel without actually losing any detail - meaning the details were not there in the first place.

What is interesting that closeups fare better than the distance shots. This further points to the lens design as the cultprit of the X-S1's limited resolution.

FZ1000 and RX10 are both equipped with substantially better sensor/lens combo, especially in terms of resolution.

Big difference in capability between a modern 1" sensor and an older 2/3" sensor, especially one that has to be used in EXR mode (with fewer pixels) to squeeze out the best performance.

I'm not anti old-cameras - I still use and love my Olympus E-1, but I think the XS-1 was great for its time and now properly consigned to the bargain bins - I suspect it's a good buy at current prices but not really a serious alternative to the new FZ.

J o m s said:

photoreddi said:

J o m s said:

Donald M Mackinnon said:

I response I am at the other end of how I use my cameras, doing 90% of my shooting using the wide end at base ISO.

Click to expand...

Better get a pocketable or semi with short zoom like X20, LX7, G16 or P7800.

Click to expand...

Donald didn't say that 100% of his photos use the wide end of the zoom range. For the 10% of his shooting that uses the long focal lengths, the X20, LX7, G16 and P7800 would get zero percent of those shots. Once again your answer is flawed, but you did post your reply quickly. Too quickly it appears.

Click to expand...

And once again, you jumped quickly to attack me and my post. Did it ever occur to you that you can buy a superzoom to take care of the longer FL?

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You were NOT attacked. Your flawed recommendation was criticized, and for good reason. Is every disagreement over an opinion an attack? That's foolish, really.

Post more sensible replies and I'll agree with you your opinions. Your recommendation to own two cameras instead of one to try to solve Donald's non-problem takes your argument another couple of steps across the foolish line. He said that he's happy with his X-S1 and is wondering why it isn't mentioned more often as a viable alternative to cameras like the FZ1000 and the RX10.

You already told Donald that the SX50 and HS50 provide more reach than his X-S1 and either of those would also shoot wide angle photos, and you missed the fact that Donald isn't asking for more reach. So now you're saying that in addition to getting a longer focal length super zoom bridge camera, he should also buy a compact so that he'll be carrying two cameras instead of one? Where do you come up with these ideas? When you try to help people don't you think it would be better to base your help on what they actually say than on trying to tell them to buy the cameras that are best for YOUR own purposes, like the X20 and HS50 that you own and that you keep telling people to buy?

.

J o m s said:

HS50 for my serious birding, X20 for wide and low-light shots, X20+TC for mid-range static and B(Bird, Bee, Balloon, Baseball etc.)IF shots.

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That's a great solution for YOU but it's much less than ideal for most other photographers if they want to always be prepared for all kinds of shooting. Then the wide focal range super zoom take care of everything. There's nothing wrong with owning both types of cameras but each has its place and a camera like a P7800 or an X20 (even with a bulky teleconverter) isn't a substitute for a super zoom camera and the only reason I'd ever have to carry both types on the same outing would be to use the smaller camera as an emergency backup if I'm out shooting not close to home and the larger super zoom stops working for some reason.

As far as pixel peeping, there's nothing wrong with a 12 MP image at ISO 100-200 in good lighting conditions. As anyone would suspect, it's better than 1/2.3" sensor camera but not as good as an APS-C.

Where the camera really shines is in EXR mode in adverse lighting conditions. I've literally taken impossible shots, with the light against me, in relative darkness and I've come up with a sharp, low noise IS0 1000 image.....at 6MP. The point is that I have a worthwhile, screen viewable still under nearly impossible conditions.

Donald M Mackinnon said:

Seeing some of the superb images taken by X-S1 owners being posted on Flickr I wonder why the X-S1 is not being mentioned as a viable and much cheaper alternative to the FZ1000.

The X-S1 is currently available on Amazon UK for £229.99, the FZ will be £520 more at launch and given demand may hold that price for some time.

I know there were issues with the X-S1 but believe they are now largely resolved, so why is the X-S1 not being held up as an alternative to the FZ1000 and the RX10 ?

It may lack some features but in terms of IQ is the X-S1 still worth getting?

Click to expand...

It has always been controversial because of the flaws in the 2/3" sensor and its lens. It only recently became useful in raw with LR5 and it remains best used in EXR mode, which makes it a 6mp cam. It shares the almost total lack of decent video with its Fuji siblings. It's a good overall cam, but has no real strengths by modern standards.

The FZ1000 is, on the other hand, a breathtaking new camera from a manufacturer that is known for superb lenses and excellent video, and this one has both. But it costs 3x as much at least ...

So people will buy what they think they need, but an obsolete camera that had problems when new is certainly going to be appealing mainly for Fuji heads and those looking for a good bargain.

Note: Even I am tempted by the FZ1000 as it has a lot of features for the money. For now, though, the G6 and 14-140 is a better cam in some ways and costs about the same, so it would be hard to justify for me.

Donald M Mackinnon said:

Seeing some of the superb images taken by X-S1 owners being posted on Flickr I wonder why the X-S1 is not being mentioned as a viable and much cheaper alternative to the FZ1000.

The X-S1 is currently available on Amazon UK for £229.99, the FZ will be £520 more at launch and given demand may hold that price for some time.

I know there were issues with the X-S1 but believe they are now largely resolved, so why is the X-S1 not being held up as an alternative to the FZ1000 and the RX10 ?

It may lack some features but in terms of IQ is the X-S1 still worth getting?

Click to expand...

The X-S1 started life as an $800 camera with more than a few issues back in 2012. If you're getting a late 2013 production example from Amazon, with all of the early production faults corrected, it is absolutely worth the current price. I am happy with mine and I can get surprising good results both in terms of low light macro as well as hand held shots at 624mm equivalent. It's a fun camera to use, especially with the buttery smooth manual zoom.

The RX-10 no doubt had its early teething issues resolved, and while it was ludicrously priced at $1,300, it looks somewhat more plausible at $1,000 now that there is the $900 FZ-1000.

The reality is that a X-S1 is guilt-free, risk-free impulse buy from Amazon. If you get it, you won't regret it. Considering the price differential, you could buy the X-S1 and still have money left over for an entry level DSLR or a mid-range mirrorless camera on clearance.

Personally, I think that FZ-1000 unsuccessfully attempts to upsize the downmarket consumer megazoom concept, while the RX-10 is an expensive but quality specialist camera. I don't really think the FZ-1000 is all that great for video, considering the noisy autofocus and variable aperture.

I have an XS1 and an RX10 (same sensor as the FZ1000) and the IQ is night and day, especially past ISO400. There is no competition from the XS1 now. If they update an XS2 with a 1" sensor...then, yes.

Donald M Mackinnon said:

Thanks for the reply which is pretty much what has been standard fare for comments/criticism of the X-S1 since launch.

What I am always puzzled by is how some users seem to get amazing results out of cameras that are alleged to be garbage.

On Flickr I see images taken with an X-S1 in one of my favourite groups and they are eye catching for colour rendition and detail. It is because of these images that I ask the question

https://flic.kr/p/ohzVw2

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Definitely not "alleged to be garbage"--at least not, imo, by anyone who has used it. I think that criticism of the X-S1 (lens droop, orbs) is pretty irrelevant now. Lens droop (where it's present, mine doesn't have it or else I'd just never notice it) doesn't affect your pictures. The orb thing was fixed long ago and I have no idea what the "blue smudges..." are--never heard of it, never seen it.

Apparently there have been some decentering issues, but I've never seen it and Fuji (or Amazon) have great warranty/return policies.

I'm not surprised that the X-S1 is taking some of your favorite Flickr photos. The Fuji colors are beautiful--and, when people have taken the time to understand the camera and also know what a "good photograph" looks like--there's no reason it wouldn't have very pleasing and impressive results.

Its true that it wouldn't be my choice as a great camera for birding and AF is slower than some other similar cameras. But the rest--including macro--is really good. Something about the photos just "pops", a subtle thing, but you can get some really gorgeous shots with it that seem dull with other cameras. And video is serviceable--and the nice part is it has an external mic jack which many bridgecams (like Canon) don't.

The X-S1 isn't the "latest and greatest" so its not competing with the FZ1000 for speed, reach or price (I'm not sure about IQ yet--still waiting). But I've recommended it to a lot of people who want to get away from their pocket point and shoot and experiment with a more capable camera with more complicated and versatile choices. (Plus, since it's heavy/bulky it gives them a -hint- whether or not they really want to go the dslr route. Also an appreciation for how much a superzoom does save in size and weight.).Such a fun and versatile camera. Oh, and that beautiful silky-smooth manual zoom and quality build are pretty nice, too. At $350! How can someone go wrong?

As for the FZ1000, I'm curious about it, but at more than double the price, I'm not convinced from photos I've seen so far (maybe soft at 400mm, maybe oversharpened)--I can't tell yet whether the IQ really is as good as I'd hope for. Once a lot of people are using it and comparing it to cameras they already have, it'll be easier to tell.

Many thanks to all those who gave replies which have been very informative. I have been swapping cameras like shirts for years, finding niggling issues with many of them but I recently bought a Sony RX100 and am delighted with the IQ, size, and ease of use. I believe it will remain my compact camera for some time.

Along with a compact, for some time I had an FZ150 for when more reach was needed, and found it very good until I treated myself to a 23" monitor and became more aware of noise even at base ISO in the FZ150. Like many I am intrigued by the FZ1000 and was within a hair's breadth of pre-ordering one but was put off by early reports of soft output at 400mm and inconsistent edge performance compared to the RX10.

In my quest for an FZ150 replacement I saw the X-S1 image on Flickr which set me thinking but with the information provided I have discounted this as a contender. In the end I am going to wait a year and see how the FZ1000 performs, and have today ordered a Nikon D3300 because of its light weight and allegedly excellent kit lens, along with a 55-200mm VR.

I'm working with my second X-S1, a newer, 34A__ _ _ serial number. After a weekend of shooting, I like my old Nikon DSLR better in a number of ways. But that X-S1 is just so darned fun to hold and operate. I wish it could deliver APS DSLR quality images. Not in the cards. You will do better with a D3300 in a number of ways. Good choice, for now!