Knock-off, remote ettl, and external battery pack recommendations

I'm currently using a Canon 5d mark II and and 580EX-II flash. I also have an extra-long ETTL cord from ocfgear.com (works great, btw).

Here is what I would like to achieve:

1. Wireless ettl. Using the ettl cord is fine, but it'd be better if I didn't have the hassle or the tripping risk.

2. Occasionally use more than one flash.

3. Faster flash recycling.

I was thinking of getting a third-party flash, since they are *substantially* cheaper than Canon flashes. Do you guys have specific recommendations for flashes that can do ettl?

I'd also like to get a battery pack for my existing flash and for the new flash. It looks like Goja makes one that gets good reviews, but I want to make sure whatever I buy is compatible with my new flash.

Finally, if I buy a knock-off flash, will my 580EX-II be able to remotely trigger it?

In other words, I want to buy a third-party flash and two battery packs so that my existing flash can communicate with the new flash (and can do ettl remotely), and both can use the battery packs.

Thanks for any advice!

Dave Guy said:

I'm currently using a Canon 5d mark II and and 580EX-II flash. I also have an extra-long ETTL cord from ocfgear.com (works great, btw).

Here is what I would like to achieve:

1. Wireless ettl. Using the ettl cord is fine, but it'd be better if I didn't have the hassle or the tripping risk.

2. Occasionally use more than one flash.

3. Faster flash recycling.

I was thinking of getting a third-party flash, since they are *substantially* cheaper than Canon flashes. Do you guys have specific recommendations for flashes that can do ettl?

I'd also like to get a battery pack for my existing flash and for the new flash. It looks like Goja makes one that gets good reviews, but I want to make sure whatever I buy is compatible with my new flash.

Finally, if I buy a knock-off flash, will my 580EX-II be able to remotely trigger it?

In other words, I want to buy a third-party flash and two battery packs so that my existing flash can communicate with the new flash (and can do ettl remotely), and both can use the battery packs.

Thanks for any advice!

Click to expand...

IMHO I'd rather buy previously owned top of the line than knock off. This is not my listing, nor do I know the seller, this is close to what you were looking for.


I do own 4 550EX, one was new when it was the flash to have, and 3 came from eBay as owners flocked to the 580EX II. They work great.

Hi,

Using the gear that you have already, most people would suggest going with Yn 622C triggers (probably including their new 622C-TX unit) or Phottix Odin triggers.

I went with Odins and don't regret my choice - the Yn based options are cheaper.

I mix 580ExIIs & 550Exs with Odin triggers and I have a single Phottix Mitros 'Plus'. They all work nicely together and they all accept either original Canon packs or Pixel (8 cell) packs (the Mitros needs an included adaptor to take either pack).

Re TTL triggers & Speedlites, go for a solution mixing only up to two brands (Canon being one) - not three brands. Good luck.

Phil214757 said:

IMHO I'd rather buy previously owned top of the line than knock off. This is not my listing, nor do I know the seller, this is close to what you were looking for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-Speed...pt=Digital_Camera_Flashes&hash=item3f37dea026

Click to expand...

Sounds like good advice. Thanks!

So the reason you think I should stay with used Canons rather than new knock offs is that you've just found Canon flashes to be that much better?

ScratchDisk said:

Hi,

Using the gear that you have already, most people would suggest going with Yn 622C triggers (probably including their new 622C-TX unit) or Phottix Odin triggers.

I went with Odins and don't regret my choice - the Yn based options are cheaper.

I mix 580ExIIs & 550Exs with Odin triggers and I have a single Phottix Mitros 'Plus'. They all work nicely together and they all accept either original Canon packs or Pixel (8 cell) packs (the Mitros needs an included adaptor to take either pack).

Re TTL triggers & Speedlites, go for a solution mixing only up to two brands (Canon being one) - not three brands. Good luck.

Click to expand...

Thanks, ScratchDisk.

Now this might be a stupid question, but instead of using triggers, can I just mount another flash on my camera that will control the other remote flashes? If I do that, would all the flashes be able to use ettl?

In other words, is the only advantage to triggers that they're cheaper than buying another flash?

" .. can I just mount another flash on my camera that will control the other remote flashes? .. "

Good question - you have to decide about the reliability of the Communication tech used. I would go with Radio comms only (as opposed to Light/IR comms). If you agree, then the only Speedlites with Radio Tx & Rx functionality built-in are 1) Canon's RT tech 600Ex-RTs and 2) Phottix's Mitros + 'Plus' Speedlites.

I can use either my Odin TCU - or - my Mitros + 'Plus', on-cam to control & trigger off-cam 580ExIIs and/or 550Exs (complete with Odin Rx units) and/or extra Mitros + 'Plus' Speedlite(s).

(The original Mitros - without the '+' - would require its own Odin Rx added.)

This might help:

ScratchDisk said:

If you agree, then the only Speedlites with Radio Tx & Rx functionality built-in are 1) Canon's RT tech 600Ex-RTs and 2) Phottix's Mitros + 'Plus' Speedlites.
I can use either my Odin TCU - or - my Mitros + 'Plus', on-cam to control & trigger off-cam 580ExIIs and/or 550Exs (complete with Odin Rx units) and/or extra Mitros + 'Plus' Speedlite(s).

Click to expand...

Thanks. Just to be clear: If I buy an Odin TCU, I can use that to control my Canon 580 ExII? Even still, that's a $200 purchase. It looks like the Phottix external battery packs are $70, which isn't crazy (much cheaper than Canon's!).

" .. an Odin TCU, I can use that to control my Canon 580 ExII? .. "

The 580ExII would need an Odin Receiver attached to its hot-foot - but then, yes.

(The master/slave tech built-in to a 580ExII uses Light/IR comms.)

The Yn 622C kit now offers very similar functionality to Odins (the two are not compatible), especially with their new 622C-TX unit - it is cheaper - and your 580ExII would then need a 622C transceiver on its hot-foot.

Yn don't offer anything equivalent to Phottix's Mitros + 'Plus', (though they are supposed to be cloning Canon's 600Ex-RT sometime).

Check out Cactus V6 triggers. You can use any brand ttl flash with them. Also look at the Cheetahstand V860 ttl flash.

Best deals and great quality!

re Cactus V6 triggers:

" .. You can use any brand ttl flash with them .. "

True, but they are not TTL capable triggers! They are high quality remotely adjustable M power fraction triggers - and - they are nearly brand agnostic too. If I didn't want the option of ETTL as well, I might have gone that route ...

see:

ScratchDisk said:

re Cactus V6 triggers:

" .. You can use any brand ttl flash with them .. "

True, but they are not TTL capable triggers! They are high quality remotely adjustable M power fraction triggers - and - they are nearly brand agnostic too. If I didn't want the option of ETTL as well, I might have gone that route ...

see:

Loading…

flashhavoc.com

Click to expand...

Ah ya that's right. They only work with ttl flashes, but do not have ttl.

RyanBoston said:

RyanBoston said:

re Cactus V6 triggers:

" .. You can use any brand ttl flash with them .. "

True, but they are not TTL capable triggers! They are high quality remotely adjustable M power fraction triggers - and - they are nearly brand agnostic too. If I didn't want the option of ETTL as well, I might have gone that route ...

see:

http://flashhavoc.com/cactus-v6-transceiver-now-available/

Click to expand...

Ah ya that's right. They only work with ttl flashes, but do not have ttl.

Click to expand...

Aha, that's no good then. I actually already non-ttl triggers. They work fine, but I really miss ettl.

There are a number of different flash units out there that are E-TTL compatible, some that are Master Flash units like the 580EX II and some that are Slave Flash units like the 430EX II. Master Flash units can work as masters or slaves, Slave Flash units can only work as slaves.

Examples are the Nissin Di866 II Master and Di622 II Slave, the Metz 58 AF-2 Master and the Metz 48 AF-1 Slave, and the Yongnuo YN-568EX II Master and YN-468-II Slave.

Speedlights.net | Nissin Di866 II (Mark 2) | Speedlights.net

Speedlights.net | Nissin Flash Review: Di622-II (flash for Canon / Nikon)

Speedlights.net | Metz 58 AF-2 Speedlite Flash

Speedlights.net | Metz 48 AF-1 Review (Flash for Canon / Nikon)

FLASH HAVOC - YongNuo YN-568EX II – for Canon (and Nikon) Review

Speedlights.net | Yongnuo YN-468II E-TTL Speedlite Flash “Mark 2″ (E-TTL II on-camera only)

The Nissin and Metz are very close to or equal to the professional level ruggedness and quality of the Canon flash units but are lower priced. The Yongnuo are less rugged and intended for amateur use, not professional use, but are considerably lower in cost than the Canon flash units.

The Yongnuo YN-622, Pixel King, and some Pocket Wizards will let you control all of the above flash units off-camera in either E-TTL or Manual Power modes.

YongNuo YN-622C ETTL Trigger Review - FLASH HAVOC

Everyone should have at least one TTL flash and you already have a great one in the 580EX II.

TTL works great for correcting for a changing subject to flash distance but can't recognize that the overall total of subject and background don't add up to about 18% gray, which is why you wind up almost always using Flash Exposure Compensation and still fixing the exposure of each individual image in post processing. Simply change the ratio of subject to background by zooming your lens and TTL will change the exposure even if the subject to flash distance remains constant. TTL is important to have but you must recognize its limitations.

Once you move the flash off-camera the subject to flash distance is usually fixed. TTL now becomes a pain in the backside. Manual Flash Power control is preferred since every shot will have exactly the same exposure no mater how the subject to camera distance changes or what your subject to background ratio is.

Simple Manual Flash Power only flash units are cheap and so are simple "Fire Only" RF triggers. Good examples are the Yongnuo YN-560-III with its built in Yongnuo RF-603-II receiver. A YN-560-II is about $70 and pair of RF-603-II triggers (one for the camera and a spare) are only about $35. For about $50 you can get the new Yongnuo YN560-TX which will allow you to change the power of the YN-560-III flash units right from your camera, eliminating the necessity of doing it on the back of the flash units.

Lighting Rumours - Yongnuo YN560-III flashgun announced with built-in 2.4GHz radio

FLASH HAVOC - YONGNUO RF-603 II – Now Available

FLASH HAVOC - YONGNUO – YN560-TX Now Available!

Add $100 for a pair of good quality stands with umbrella brackets and umbrellas and you are set for waist up or head and shoulders portraits. Add a $30 60" umbrella and you can do standing portraits.

B&H - Interfit STR120 Twin Umbrella Kit STR120

B&H - Impact Convertible 60" Umbrella - White Satin with Removable Backing

Thanks so much! So it sounds like (but correct me if I'm wrong):

- I can buy the Yongnuo YN-622C and use it to control my 580 EX-II in ETTL mode.

- It will use radio waves for the communication, so I don't have to worry about line of sight issues. (In particular, I'd like to have the slave flash inside a soft box.)

- I can later add a Yongnuo flash, and simultaneously control both my 580 EX-II and my Yongnuo flash in ETTL mode.

- Finally, there's no issue with attaching an off-brand battery pack to my 580 EX-II while it's sitting inside a soft box receiving instructions from the YN-622C.

Do you agree?

I really appreciate everyone's help. This stuff can get complicated.

[No message]

Hi!, Yes that's all correct.

Yn make a lot of Speedlite types - make sure your choice is 622C compatible. However, at the moment, I believe that Yn make you choose between HSS - OR - the ability to accept an external pack. Happy to be corrected if that's out of date (I use Phottix stuff).

I would include Yn's 622C - TX (new) as the interface/functionality looks better. Cheers.

Thanks so much.

I hardly ever use HSS, so that choice will be easy.

I just got a Neewer 860 ETL flsh for EOS from Amazon and shipped from China. The chinese have gone a long way and offer competitive products that on occasions surpass known brand technology. This flash has a super feature, it has its own battery in its body and may shoot up to 600 full power flashes before running out of juice. I got an extra battery so I theoretically have 1200 full power flashes with the extra convenience of avoiding charging multiple AAA battery sets.


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Its $ 180 and comparable to a 580ex, so its a no brainer!!

Dave Guy said:

Thanks so much.

I hardly ever use HSS, so that choice will be easy.

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HSS is such a powerful option, at least be sure you have run HSS through it's paces before you casually write it off.

I think everyone who has shot in bright sun using fill flash has run into the camera limiting the shutter speed to the camera sync speed (1/180th to 1/250th typically). HSS turns the shutter lose again to run up to the full shutter speed.

HSS is not a panacea, especially with its c 2.5 (or more) stop flash-to-subject range penalty - but - I wouldn't like to be without it, either.

And .. that's just when an external pack becomes most useful!